Is their really a religion called "islam"?
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Salaamun alaikum Zenje,
I take your point. Why I'd disagree with this deduction is because of contextual use of the various 'islaam' derivatives in Al-Quraan.
3/83 for example, uses 'aslama karaha' (orientating oneself towards peace forcibly). I think the word ur looking for to replace 'salam' here is 'amn' like in 3/84 where ur imaan leads you to submit.
thanks and salaam.
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Salam Zein, all,
Salaam mquran,
'Al-muslimeen' is being in a certain posture which allows a person to orientate himself towards 'salaam'.
And I would have thought that it was the other way round... after reaching 'salaam' , would allow one to be called muslim. In other words, it's earned, not just named. Not sure if I'm clear.
I agree and Id' like to add this
- In it are clear signs maqam of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from mankind hijju Albayt, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds.
I consider albayt as the system of the God which is Islam and whoever enters it will be secure.
Marie
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peace mq, marie, all,
like in 3/84 where ur imaan leads you to submit.
I dont see 384 as a sequential statement, i.e. amn leads to slm.
I consider albayt as the system of the God which is Islam and whoever enters it will be secure.
Nice & simple isn't it.
Wakas
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Salaamun alaikum
Wakas I dont see 384 as a sequential statement, i.e. amn leads to slm
Ok, how would you see the ayat itself then ? It does start with 'amanna' and ends with 'muslimoon'. Perhaps you see a different conceptual relationship ?
Marie I consider albayt as the system of the God which is Islam and whoever enters it will be secure
.Yeah. 'man dakhalahu kaana ameena' In other words, you enter awwala bait first, THEN you achieve a state of amn (interestingly, its not silm but amn).
I think a diagram would be good at this stage )
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peace mq,
Ok, how would you see the ayat itself then ? It does start with 'amanna' and ends with 'muslimoon'. Perhaps you see a different conceptual relationship ?
384 is stating a list of beliefs, then it ends with "and to him we are muslimoona/compliant". How does that equate to a sequential process which ends up with becoming 'muslimoona'? It doesn't.
If a member of the Labour party states a list of things they believe in, and ends with "and to Tony Blair we are compliant". This does not necessarily mean each one of those beliefs were a sequential process until they were compliant to Blair. No the person is just stating their beliefs and their position, not a sequence of transitions.Compare 384 with 397 in which "In it are clear signs maqam/position of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure." is stated. In this is a clear sequence, i.e. one enters it then they will be secure.
Wakas
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Salaamun alaikum Wakas,
I take your point and I think u've presented a very good argument with 3/97. Thing is, 3/97 is a conditional thing, if you enter Ibrahim's position, you shall attain 'amn'. 3/84 to me is an equational thing. If you have imaan in Allah, you will be in islaam. This would make sense rationally to me as well. Imaan is conviction in something. If you truly have imaan in Allah, your relationship to Him would be one of submission.
of course, i fully respect your view and appreciate this discussion.
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peace mq,
If you have imaan in Allah, you will be in islaam. This would make sense rationally to me as well. Imaan is conviction in something. If you truly have imaan in Allah, your relationship to Him would be one of submission.
I agree.
islam can lead to imaan, thus when one has imaan they can also be said to be in islam/compliance.
In this sense we are saying the same thing. However, for my part, a clarification...
One who is in islam/compliance cannot necassarily be said to have imaan. This is proven by 4914. This ayat to me implies a sequence, thus I disagreed with your sequential statement. I agree with your equational statement though.
I think I recall us having this discussion before.
Wakas
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Salaamun alaikum Wakas,
One who is in islam/compliance cannot necassarily be said to have imaan. This is proven by 4914. This ayat to me implies a sequence, thus I disagreed with your sequential statement. I agree with your equational statement though.
Ah yeah, there is a sequence here for a person who wasn't a mumin before. If he complies with ad-deen al-islaam, then yes, it's possible that soon his heart will be open to imaan/conviction. That's my reading of 49/14.
I think I recall us having this discussion before
We did, yeah, but I always appreciate a refresher course. Give me a call sometime, man
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Salaams all,
Although i agree with Aziz,Can somebody be born a muslim , or do you get this title through endeavour - like as to become a or gain the title Dr before your name.
So is there really a religion Islam or are religions Forbidden as something called shiaism in the quran
see 6159 ,3031-32.
Inna allatheena farraqoo deenahumwakanoo shiyaAAan lasta minhum fee shay-in innamaamruhum ila Allahi thumma yunabbi-ohum bimakanoo yafAAaloona
As for those who divide their Deen and break up into Shiaism(Religions), thou hast no part in them in the least their affair is with Allah He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
3.
Walaqad arsalna min qablika feeshiyaAAi al-awwaleena
We did send messengers before thee amongst the religious sects of oldMuneebeena ilayhi waittaqoohuwaaqeemoo alssalata wala takoonoomina almushrikeena
Turn ye back in repentance to Him, and fear Him establish regular prayers, and be not ye among those who join gods with Allah,-Mina allatheena farraqoo deenahum wakanooshiyaAAan kullu hizbin bima ladayhim farihoona
Those who split up their Deen, and become Religious Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!Aidid has explained this in far more details.
