Salam Aleikum, im so happy now I finnaly found the truth :)
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Salam aleikum everybody! I convert to sunni islam in february, but I dont think it was the right Islam. I wonering why they use hadith and not only the Quran. I dident know that is was a Group like this who follow only the quran and not hadith. Im so happy I found this side! Sorry for my bad English. Finnaly i found the right islam. beautiful islam. Im so happy!
Peace be opon you all!
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Salaam sister,
Welcome to the forum. Hope you will like it. Do not be discouraged by the sometimes heated discussions. It is just a big variety of people here including people with more traditional views.
It is praise to God that we manage to attract so many new people who wish to come here and read and write. I try to write as truthfully as I can and try to be wise. But as long as we all put our Faith in God alone, are good people and follow Quran to the best of our ability we are on a straight path. Just try not to indulge in too much conjecture as I unfortunately am afraid some people are doing around here. But of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am open to different thoughts.
Personally, as an advice from me try to apply "breakthroughs" in the interpretation of the Quran carefully. Do not hasten it as God expresses Himself in Quran. Sometimes a disputed rule/procedure/practice in Quran is only logical when you put in a different light.
Some say salat is not prayer. Well that is fine but it still means contact with the Lord and is prescribed at least two times per day surely and almost most probably three times. I found no reason to exclude dedicated moments for the Lord to be on the schedule in the day so salah means something like the traditional prayer understanding. Other things like tone of salat is also suspicious if you follow this path or about performing salat during a war which is described somewhere in Quran.
Sorry. Now it feels like I teach you things, but I just wanted to make you certain that there are people with these views as mine. Please read about all understandings and form your own opinion. Just use your mind to the best of your ability.
Once again please welcome to the forum.
God bless you
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Salaam,
Hand on my heart, I am not certain about this. I still pray at least five times per day just in case. It seems there are only three prescribed times for salat since these are the only occasions clearly written out in Quran by calling the prayers by their proper names, ie salat al-fajr, al-wusta and al-isha. Certain people go as far as claiming that there are only two daily prayers, but I doubt it means an exclusion of prayers between fajr and isha but rather prayers in between them which may indicate several prayers.
The word for prayer indicate a minimum of three prayers anyway. Shia muslims pray three times per day but at zuhr and maghrib they observe two prayer sessions making it five. I have had some thought that the true depiction of it is that there are three compulsory prayers per day.
Somewhere among hadith (I do not use hadith and this was only to see (in)consistency) I think I recall that Muhammad observed a prayer in the afternoon (asr) and because traditionalists believe we should follow the sunnah it became religious law despite not advocated as such by God.
Since the timing of asr and maghrib is no hassle to me I do them semi-compulsory because of fear of God lest I do wrong. God will not punish me because I am confused about His system due to corruption unless I commit idolatry or things of the likes.
I am also doubtful of the rakat system, but also there it is an old tradition and God will not punish you since it is not blasphemous to follow it. It is nothing idolatrous about prostrating four times in sets of two, although I am searching for confirmation whether this practice is included in God's religion or not. It feels slightly repetitive and dull for God to hear you read surah 1 several times during prayer with little variation. I have begun to add a qunut with Jesus' prayer from the Bible to get some variety.
This confusion is why sectarian muslims attack those who wish to follow Quran alone, but rather being confused then following their mumbo jumbo. I have recently begun to think that the salat is really not uniform at all and a monotonous ritual to be stereotypically performed but rather should first of all be about your connection to God. But I would not say a prayer is without words or some physical movement. Meditation and prayer are strongly connected with each other, and it is more about focusing and contacting the Lord than looking like a robot doing some bodily movements.
My idea is that absolutely anyone encountering Quran without meeting anyone else on a deserted island can adopt islam without knowing anything about prayer rituals or other things people say is according to Islam. Other teachings than Quran should really not be necessary. God ia in your heart. This is my defense to those who talk about details which cannot be found in Quran and they are not there because there simply exist no such details, eg how to pray, rakat etc. Quran is a book with guidelines, not word by word instructions on how to live, like the tyrannical hadith books imply.
God bless you
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peace MofF, all,
It seems there are only three prescribed times for salat since these are the only occasions clearly written out in Quran by calling the prayers by their proper names, ie salat al-fajr, al-wusta and al-isha.
I have never heard anyone who knows Arabic say "al salat al wusta" is the name of a salat. Nor do I know of any traditional source which names such a salat this.
What is your evidence for this?
Certain people go as far as claiming that there are only two daily prayers, but I doubt it means an exclusion of prayers between fajr and isha but rather prayers in between them which may indicate several prayers.
Certain people go as far................. back as the earliest "Muslims"? They seemed to do two, or a minimum of two
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601309.0The word for prayer indicate a minimum of three prayers anyway.
I can only assume you are referring to the word "salawat" not "salat". If so, you may be implying whenever a plural is used it means in a day, or daily, even if not specified like this. That would be quite a remarkable theory - what is your evidence?
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Salaam Wakas,
This is why I believe this wusta to be what is between the beginning and end of the day.
You may be right that it is illogical to think of the plural as three considered its uses in other situations. I will keep that on my mind in my future tinkering.
Currently I believe it to be multiple prayers of personal choice throughout the day. But because wusta is any prayer in the middle it is a minimum of three anyways depending on how you see it. So wusta is then not a name of a specific prayer, this is likely to be true and no speaker of Arabic implies so either and we can conclude this.
I think the earlier muslims did more than two, always. In my research there is no evidence that people did not pray during daytime in the past.
God bless you
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w/salaam MofF,
But because wusta is any prayer in the middle it is a minimum of three anyways depending on how you see it.
Not necessarily
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0I think the earlier muslims did more than two, always. In my research there is no evidence that people did not pray during daytime in the past.
Did you read the following, from link in my post above
http//www.scribd.com/doc/37518694/Uri-Rubin-Morning-and-Evening-Prayers-in-early-Islam-by-muslimsOther scholars, like Mittwoch, for instance, who studied the evidence of Muslim sources, maintained that the first two prayers which the Muslims reportedly used to pray daily were alt al-fajr (before sunrise), and alt al-'ish' (after sunset).
Looks like you and Mittwoch disagree then.
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w/salaam MofF,
Not necessarily
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0Did you read the following, from link in my post above
http//www.scribd.com/doc/37518694/Uri-Rubin-Morning-and-Evening-Prayers-in-early-Islam-by-muslimsPeace Wakas,
I'm not using this forum much right now but I want to say thanks for sharing this information. Your posts are often very informative. Do you think the emphasis on 5 times a day prayer emerged after the Hadith was written about Prophet Muhammad negotiating prayers with God from 50 to 5 upon the recommendation of Prophet Moses? That Hadith also questions God's authority so much.
If 'piety' was attained by performing a certain amount of prayer, God would constantly mention the number we should be 'performing' salat. Instead, when God mentions these things, God mentions the concept of Salat, the concept of Zakat etc. God does not say salat must be done this way and that, zakat must be done this way and that. God is actually very easy going with us when we take a look and wants to encourage us in the right direction and not control our every move, thought and so on.
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Salaam,
I am just curious of what it was Solomon missed and was so upset he had missed until the sun went down?
I am determined there is at least one prayer during daylight which is of importance and I am going to continue study this subject hard.
You have one source of information saying it was only a morning and night prayer, but that is not coherent to what I know at the moment, and seems to contradict my current understanding of Quran. See the story of Solomon for example, or why establish salat when sun has reached its zenith.
Of course we can argue this forever and I still only have information as a work in progress, but I would be careful ruling important parameters such as salat out before it is really cleared out. Yet I am sure there are even more important aspects such as behavior and actions of the Believers.
God bless you
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peace,
Do you think the emphasis on 5 times a day prayer emerged after the Hadith was written about Prophet Muhammad negotiating prayers with God from 50 to 5 upon the recommendation of Prophet Moses? That Hadith also questions God's authority so much.
I think Quran advocates for the mumineen, a minimum of two daily regular/timed salat/bond. At the time, or shortly after the prophet's death, there likely was variance in practice, not only in the method but also the number. The Quran never strictly formalised it.
Thus, with all this variance, there was likely a push by later leaders and religious scholars towards orthodoxy, to make this practice more formalised, uniform etc hence the fixing of five. There are various theories as to the fixing of five, see
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954.msg259782#msg259782God is actually very easy going with us when we take a look and wants to encourage us in the right direction and not control our every move, thought and so on.
I agree. The more I have studied Quran the more I have realised this.
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w/salaam,
I am just curious of what it was Solomon missed and was so upset he had missed until the sun went down?
You're not the only one who was curious about that. See my 2004 post http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8014.msg29799#msg29799
And http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=38&verse=31#(38311)
Layth thought the feminine singular referred to the unmentioned object "the sun". I do not think so.You have one source of information saying it was only a morning and night prayer, but that is not coherent to what I know at the moment, and seems to contradict my current understanding of Quran. See the story of Solomon for example, or why establish salat when sun has reached its zenith.
Coherence is unlikely to found in traditions. I was just giving you that as an example.
And of course, one should always continue to study etc.
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Fare thee well Wakas,
I accept your ideas and I have to some part read your articles. No problem. We all study Quran hard and may God reward us.
God bless you
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peace,
I think Quran advocates for the mumineen, a minimum of two daily regular/timed salat/bond. At the time, or shortly after the prophet's death, there likely was variance in practice, not only in the method but also the number. The Quran never strictly formalised it.
Thus, with all this variance, there was likely a push by later leaders and religious scholars towards orthodoxy, to make this practice more formalised, uniform etc hence the fixing of five. There are various theories as to the fixing of five, see
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954.msg259782#msg259782Peace Wakas,
Thanks, that's helpful.
I agree. The more I have studied Quran the more I have realised this.
What I guess I'd also add here to what I already included before is that the most important thing seems to be to know our relationship with God. To seek to further that relationship and follow the moral compass God has blessed us all with. So all the concerns over rituals in hadith etc go against the essence of the Quran. God cares that we are just, decent, show compassion to all living things not just human being etc, and these are things He has already imbued in us, as well as the ability to choose between right and wrong. Maybe that is why the punishments in the past were that way, because the message of morality - not rituals - was already so clear and so straightforwardly put for people both within themselves and from a Messenger among them.
