Salam Aleikum, im so happy now I finnaly found the truth :)
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Salaam Wakas,
This is why I believe this wusta to be what is between the beginning and end of the day.
You may be right that it is illogical to think of the plural as three considered its uses in other situations. I will keep that on my mind in my future tinkering.
Currently I believe it to be multiple prayers of personal choice throughout the day. But because wusta is any prayer in the middle it is a minimum of three anyways depending on how you see it. So wusta is then not a name of a specific prayer, this is likely to be true and no speaker of Arabic implies so either and we can conclude this.
I think the earlier muslims did more than two, always. In my research there is no evidence that people did not pray during daytime in the past.
God bless you
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w/salaam MofF,
But because wusta is any prayer in the middle it is a minimum of three anyways depending on how you see it.
Not necessarily
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0I think the earlier muslims did more than two, always. In my research there is no evidence that people did not pray during daytime in the past.
Did you read the following, from link in my post above
http//www.scribd.com/doc/37518694/Uri-Rubin-Morning-and-Evening-Prayers-in-early-Islam-by-muslimsOther scholars, like Mittwoch, for instance, who studied the evidence of Muslim sources, maintained that the first two prayers which the Muslims reportedly used to pray daily were alt al-fajr (before sunrise), and alt al-'ish' (after sunset).
Looks like you and Mittwoch disagree then.
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w/salaam MofF,
Not necessarily
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0Did you read the following, from link in my post above
http//www.scribd.com/doc/37518694/Uri-Rubin-Morning-and-Evening-Prayers-in-early-Islam-by-muslimsPeace Wakas,
I'm not using this forum much right now but I want to say thanks for sharing this information. Your posts are often very informative. Do you think the emphasis on 5 times a day prayer emerged after the Hadith was written about Prophet Muhammad negotiating prayers with God from 50 to 5 upon the recommendation of Prophet Moses? That Hadith also questions God's authority so much.
If 'piety' was attained by performing a certain amount of prayer, God would constantly mention the number we should be 'performing' salat. Instead, when God mentions these things, God mentions the concept of Salat, the concept of Zakat etc. God does not say salat must be done this way and that, zakat must be done this way and that. God is actually very easy going with us when we take a look and wants to encourage us in the right direction and not control our every move, thought and so on.
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Salaam,
I am just curious of what it was Solomon missed and was so upset he had missed until the sun went down?
I am determined there is at least one prayer during daylight which is of importance and I am going to continue study this subject hard.
You have one source of information saying it was only a morning and night prayer, but that is not coherent to what I know at the moment, and seems to contradict my current understanding of Quran. See the story of Solomon for example, or why establish salat when sun has reached its zenith.
Of course we can argue this forever and I still only have information as a work in progress, but I would be careful ruling important parameters such as salat out before it is really cleared out. Yet I am sure there are even more important aspects such as behavior and actions of the Believers.
God bless you
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peace,
Do you think the emphasis on 5 times a day prayer emerged after the Hadith was written about Prophet Muhammad negotiating prayers with God from 50 to 5 upon the recommendation of Prophet Moses? That Hadith also questions God's authority so much.
I think Quran advocates for the mumineen, a minimum of two daily regular/timed salat/bond. At the time, or shortly after the prophet's death, there likely was variance in practice, not only in the method but also the number. The Quran never strictly formalised it.
Thus, with all this variance, there was likely a push by later leaders and religious scholars towards orthodoxy, to make this practice more formalised, uniform etc hence the fixing of five. There are various theories as to the fixing of five, see
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954.msg259782#msg259782God is actually very easy going with us when we take a look and wants to encourage us in the right direction and not control our every move, thought and so on.
I agree. The more I have studied Quran the more I have realised this.
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w/salaam,
I am just curious of what it was Solomon missed and was so upset he had missed until the sun went down?
You're not the only one who was curious about that. See my 2004 post http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8014.msg29799#msg29799
And http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=38&verse=31#(38311)
Layth thought the feminine singular referred to the unmentioned object "the sun". I do not think so.You have one source of information saying it was only a morning and night prayer, but that is not coherent to what I know at the moment, and seems to contradict my current understanding of Quran. See the story of Solomon for example, or why establish salat when sun has reached its zenith.
Coherence is unlikely to found in traditions. I was just giving you that as an example.
And of course, one should always continue to study etc.
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Fare thee well Wakas,
I accept your ideas and I have to some part read your articles. No problem. We all study Quran hard and may God reward us.
God bless you
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peace,
I think Quran advocates for the mumineen, a minimum of two daily regular/timed salat/bond. At the time, or shortly after the prophet's death, there likely was variance in practice, not only in the method but also the number. The Quran never strictly formalised it.
Thus, with all this variance, there was likely a push by later leaders and religious scholars towards orthodoxy, to make this practice more formalised, uniform etc hence the fixing of five. There are various theories as to the fixing of five, see
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954.msg259782#msg259782Peace Wakas,
Thanks, that's helpful.
I agree. The more I have studied Quran the more I have realised this.
What I guess I'd also add here to what I already included before is that the most important thing seems to be to know our relationship with God. To seek to further that relationship and follow the moral compass God has blessed us all with. So all the concerns over rituals in hadith etc go against the essence of the Quran. God cares that we are just, decent, show compassion to all living things not just human being etc, and these are things He has already imbued in us, as well as the ability to choose between right and wrong. Maybe that is why the punishments in the past were that way, because the message of morality - not rituals - was already so clear and so straightforwardly put for people both within themselves and from a Messenger among them.
