Leaving the Quran alone ideology
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Salaam everyone,
I know this one guy who used to follow the Quran alone but ended up leaving that ideology to become a strict Sunni. Do you guys know people who have done something similar? Usually it seems to be the other way around. I just don't understand it. Doesn't following the Quran alone make so much sense? After being guided to this point and after hearing all the arguments against Hadith usage, I don't understand how someone could go back to accepting the hadith. Can you?
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Peace
Perhaps asking this person directly his reasons would give you a better answer than anybody here could give you as there answers would be mere speculation.
I would be interested in knowing as well and also why the Sunni hadith instead of the Shia hadith?If you could ask these questions and post it, it would be much appreciated.
but perhaps somebody here on this forum could speak from this experience?
Peace
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salaam+
Up to the age of about 36 years about twelve years ago I refused to have anything to do with anything other than the qur'aan. I did not, however, deny myself the full investigation of all the other scriptures purporting to be the words of the Creator.
I gave over a thousand lectures and nearly in all of them I was asked why I did not make any reference to any 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths). My categorical replies always were, "Why must I go to other sources of information when the qur'aan was perfectly clear on the matter. And how could other sources other than the qur'aan be trusted."
I ,however, was also not so bold to declare the invalidity of statements I also did not fully understand at the time. One cannot dismiss anything without first understanding the matter. This could be a grave error. Not for true seekers in my opinion.
After many discoveries in the qur'aan which brought me into conflict with many Muslims, I was greatly surprised many years later that there were hadiyths of the prophet(S+) that exactly corresponded to my findings. I was greatly surprised at this and suddenly I found that the very hadiyths that I did not investigate before became weapons against the falsehood that has crept into the religion of islaam. I have also discovered that many of those who claim to be followers of the 'ahaadiyth are not followers at all. They use selected 'ahaadiyth to back up their ideologies and then dismiss the others.
Then about ten years ago I began a hurried study of all the books that record the 'ahaadiyth. I have now without exaggeration studied about 10 000 to 15 000. Many will be amazed at the outcome of all the information. All those whom I met and whom I made negative before now see the 'ahaadiyth in a different light. I am now also busy putting an 'ahaadiyth website together for all for a better understanding.
I will also post some threads about some of the findings inshaa ALLAAH.
+salaam
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Salaam,
Unplugged, I will try to get some information out of him. He doesn't talk to women who aren't his relatives anymore though. Al-amiyr, that sounds very interesting. When do you think your website will be finished? So you're saying that there is information within the hadith that support the Quran-alone approach? Or did I misunderstand?
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Salaam,
Unplugged, I will try to get some information out of him. He doesn't talk to women who aren't his relatives anymore though. Al-amiyr, that sounds very interesting. When do you think your website will be finished? So you're saying that there is information within the hadith that support the Quran-alone approach? Or did I misunderstand?
The authentic 'ahaadiyth are nothing more than the in depth explanations of what is in the qur'aan as explained by the prophet (S+). The compilations of the 'ahaadiyth are also nothing more than the perceptions of all those who have heard what he has said (correctly or incorrectly). The facts of the matter can easily be determined. Knowledge for this is required. I will set forth good examples in threads if you wish inshaa ALLAAH.
As for the website, I have been working on it now for almost a year. I hope to begin uploading before the end of the year inshaa ALLAAH. -
So are you saying it's easy to figure out which perceptions are correct and which are incorrect? What's the point of looking through hadith in the first place though? If Muhammad did explain how to uphold the Quran during his time, that doesn't mean we should uphold it the same way in this age that we currently live in, right? Things have changed and had Muhammad been living today, maybe he would have amended his actions to better fit the present.
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Salaam,
When the first time I browsed and read the hadiths myself, I wanted to cry reading some of them.
How can a Prophet and Messenger of God talked nonsense and insult women?
Some hadiths say men shouldn't be asked to why they beat their wives, some hadiths say men must not beat their wives at all, some say hadiths say men may beat their wives if the wives do not obey them as the last alternative, some hadiths say Muhammad never beat his wives, some say Muhammad beat Aisha.
Some hadiths say black dogs must be killed, some hadiths say prostitute entered heaven after giving water in a shoe to a thirsty dog.
Hadiths are full of self-contradictions and inconsistencies.
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So are you saying it's easy to figure out which perceptions are correct and which are incorrect? What's the point of looking through hadith in the first place though? If Muhammad did explain how to uphold the Quran during his time, that doesn't mean we should uphold it the same way in this age that we currently live in, right? Things have changed and had Muhammad been living today, maybe he would have amended his actions to better fit the present.
That is also partly correct. Knowledge is required for this and no wild statements and self opinions based upon personal desires. There is a law for this as well. For example I have proposed over 30 years ago the construction of the lunar Ka'baH and about 15 years ago the construction of the the anti-ka'baH. I will speak in greater detail about this in future threads inshaa ALLAAH.
Do you have the personal knowledge of the Recitation/Reading (al-qur'aan) and do you understand of the Book (al-kitaab)? If you do, then I would say that you have the right no longer to rely on anything or anyone else. You are able to extract all the knowledge God wants you to know throughout time anywhere in the universe for all your requirements. But if you do not- then pay heed - for it is written in the qur'aan that who can be more wrong that one who invents a lie against God.
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Salaam,
When the first time I browsed and read the hadiths myself, I wanted to cry reading some of them.
How can a Prophet and Messenger of God talked nonsense and insult women?
Some hadiths say men shouldn't be asked to why they beat their wives, some hadiths say men must not beat their wives at all, some say hadiths say men may beat their wives if the wives do not obey them as the last alternative, some hadiths say Muhammad never beat his wives, some say Muhammad beat Aisha.
Some hadiths say black dogs must be killed, some hadiths say prostitute entered heaven after giving water in a shoe to a thirsty dog.
Hadiths are full of self-contradictions and inconsistencies.
It is because you have no understanding of 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths) like almost all those who think they follow the 'ahaadiyth. If you wish I shall show you some examples and you will be astounded. Nevertheless your observations are perfectly correct. Just continue to learn. It could be that what you understand now is not what you will understand tomorrow.
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Salaam,
When the first time I browsed and read the hadiths myself, I wanted to cry reading some of them.
How can a Prophet and Messenger of God talked nonsense and insult women?
Some hadiths say men shouldn't be asked to why they beat their wives, some hadiths say men must not beat their wives at all, some say hadiths say men may beat their wives if the wives do not obey them as the last alternative, some hadiths say Muhammad never beat his wives, some say Muhammad beat Aisha.
Some hadiths say black dogs must be killed, some hadiths say prostitute entered heaven after giving water in a shoe to a thirsty dog.
Hadiths are full of self-contradictions and inconsistencies.
Salaam,
I don't know a lot about hadiyths, however, I would like to learn more about them.
I am curious about the hadiyths you are referring to above, please can you quote them? -
It is because you have no understanding of 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths) like almost all those who think they follow the 'ahaadiyth. If you wish I shall show you some examples and you will be astounded. Nevertheless your observations are perfectly correct. Just continue to learn. It could be that what you understand now is not what you will understand tomorrow.
Salaam Al-amiyr
I am kafir for all hadiths while accepting All Ayats of Allah.
Try explain me why i am probably on a wrong path.Try also to find kofr in this sentence " I believe that Bukhari and Muslims are liars and i don't believe in their books".
Explain to me why i have to take "yours "others Arbabs as my teachers to be on a right path.Peace
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Salaam Al-amiyr
I am kafir for all hadiths while accepting All Ayats of Allah.
Try explain me why i am probably on a wrong path.Try also to find kofr in this sentence " I believe that Bukhari and Muslims are liars and i don't believe in their books".
Explain to me why i have to take "yours "others Arbabs as my teachers to be on a right path.Peace
salaam+ noshirk
I do not declare you in anyway that you are a kaafir as you have about said yourself, "I am kafir for all hadiths while accepting All Ayats of Allah."
Give me a reason why I should find kufr in your statement, " I believe that Bukhari and Muslims are liars and i don't believe in their books" when I have never mentioned it to you or for that matter any other person before you. I never go around telling people they are unbelievers no matter how lost they are. My point is I take them to the knowledge and then they overthrow their own nonsense if it is nonsense they believe in. Nor am I aggressive to any if they are not much aggressive or make extreme insulting statements about others.
As for your next statement,
"Explain to me why i have to take "yours "others Arbabs as my teachers to be on a right path." I do not know about others but I would ask you this one question
"Do you have knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab)?"
If you do not you would have virtually no knowledge about the information contained in the Reading/Recitation (al-qur'aan). Then you shall first have to learn or otherwise you will be on the same road of destruction as the very people you claim are liars. Challenge me on this in a nice way and I will show you how astray you possibly are or you show me how astray I am. Surely this should not be something hard. -
al-amiyr,
Are you a traditional muslim who is here trying to sway people into accepting hadiths? When i read your posts it's as though i am reading a puzzle. Let's hear some proof to support your bold statements. As far as i see it, the Quran tells us not to follow any other books, which is implied in several verses of the Quran. You sound very much like the imams who are running most mosques. They also make vague statements declaring a science to the hadiths, which they never actually explain. Before you declare such statements, I suggest you take the time to provide evidence.
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It is because you have no understanding of 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths) like almost all those who think they follow the 'ahaadiyth. If you wish I shall show you some examples and you will be astounded.
God will not punish those who disuse apocryphal texts (456), but those who desert His Glorious Scripture (2530).
For a Muslim, the Qur'an is the only "authentic" source of "judgment" there is. It is the book whereof there is no doubt/uncertainty (22, 482), it is the only source of guidance to be followed (238, 3138, 3941, 4511, ...) Further, according to the Qur'an, God "completed" our religion for us during the lifetime of Muhammad (53) meaning, in the 7th century; thus there is no need for these (10th century) fabrications of urs!
If you think otherwise, then please spare us the condescension, logical fallacies, and pretences., and simply contribute a counter-argument that gives a reasonable response with supporting evidence. I recommend using Qur'anic verses, and primary sources - i.e. provide some (complete, or fragmented) hadith manuscripts from the 1st century AH; if ye have indeed, properly studied the 6 persian hadith corpus (as you claim).
SLM
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2ireTt0HE
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Salaam,
I like searching and reading old posts.
This is what I found from a thread
& estaghferallah
the messenger of Allah (Mohammad) had sexual intercourse with Mariyyah (his Coptic slave) in the house of Hafsah. When the messenger came out of the house, Hafsa was sitting at the gate (behind the locked door). She told the prophet, O Messenger of Allah, do you do this in my house and during my turn? The messenger said, control yourself and let me go because I make her haram to me.
Tabaqat 8223
He was a child-killer
??two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he (Mohammad) ordered that they should be killed??
Ibn Ishaq 819
He attempted suicide on numerous occasions
But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet (Mohammad) became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before.
Sahih Bukhari 29111
He questioned his own sanity
"O Khadija, I (Mohammad) see light and hear sounds and I fear I am mad"
Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir 225
He beat his wives
(Aisha) I said Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He (Mohammad) said Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said Yes. He (Mohammad) struck me on the chest which caused me pain.
Sahih Muslim 22127
The Prophet (Mohammad) said A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.
Abu Dawud 112142
He considered women to be genetically inferior
The Prophet (Mohammad) said, "Isn't the witness of a women equal to half that of a man?" The women said "yes". He said "This is because of the deficiency of the women's mind."
Sahih Bukhari 3826502
He saw women as nothing more than sexual objects
Mohammad said "if a man invites his wife to sleep with him an she refuses to come to him, then angels send their curses on her till morning."
Sahih Bukhari 712193
He was a paedophile
A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported Allah's Apostle (Mohammad) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Sahih Muslim 83310
nope nope nope nope lA3NATULLAHE ELLAL KAZEBEEN elektroRegarding Aisha's age when she was married to Muhammad, many historical sources, including hadiths contradict the hadiths that say Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of 6 and lost her virginity when she was 9.
I am sick of people saying "when a girl has reached puberty, she is eligible to be married"
Have you ever heard of the youngest mother in the world, Lena Medina, a Peruvian girl who gave birth to a child when she was 5 years, 7 months and 17 days old?
http//www.ridiculousfacts.com/worlds-youngest-mother/
Have you ever heard of Precocious Puberty?
It is a puberty that occurs at unusually very young age such as 3 years old. Do you think 3-year-olds who have reached puberty are eligible to get married?There are many hadiths that you have to learn. Like I said before, hadiths are not consistent and contradict themselves.
Regards,
Yuliana -
It is because you have no understanding of 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths) like almost all those who think they follow the 'ahaadiyth. If you wish I shall show you some examples and you will be astounded. Nevertheless your observations are perfectly correct. Just continue to learn. It could be that what you understand now is not what you will understand tomorrow.
So I have to accept hadiths that say women, dogs and donkeys annul prayer? So I have to accept the hadiths that say women who don't fulfill their husbands love-making desire in bed will be cursed by angels till morning? So I have to accept hadiths that say black dogs must be killed because they are devils? So I have to accept hadiths that command people to burn down houses of people who don't attend prayers at mosque?
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salaam+ noshirk
I do not declare you in anyway that you are a kaafir as you have about said yourself, "I am kafir for all hadiths while accepting All Ayats of Allah."
Give me a reason why I should find kufr in your statement, " I believe that Bukhari and Muslims are liars and i don't believe in their books" when I have never mentioned it to you or for that matter any other person before you. I never go around telling people they are unbelievers no matter how lost they are. My point is I take them to the knowledge and then they overthrow their own nonsense if it is nonsense they believe in. Nor am I aggressive to any if they are not much aggressive or make extreme insulting statements about others.
As for your next statement,
"Explain to me why i have to take "yours "others Arbabs as my teachers to be on a right path." I do not know about others but I would ask you this one question
"Do you have knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab)?"
If you do not you would have virtually no knowledge about the information contained in the Reading/Recitation (al-qur'aan). Then you shall first have to learn or otherwise you will be on the same road of destruction as the very people you claim are liars. Challenge me on this in a nice way and I will show you how astray you possibly are or you show me how astray I am. Surely this should not be something hard.salaam al-amiyr
forgive me the following agressivity.
i will make to you a clear accusation
"You are a moshrik". That is a mixer of words of Gods with words from other than God.
You are rejecting the "One Rabb/teacher claim" and need other arbabs.Let see how you can defend yourself and sorry again.
Now i will respond to your question
"Do you have knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab)?"Response is no.
But also neither Muhammad and other "cheikhs" has that understanding.37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.
No one can explain Quran except God. He explain it as he wants to who comes to him sincerely.
He is the only Rabb.
I am his pupil and he is my only teacher.
I read what other pupils write and understood and i write what i understood. It is only exchanges between pupils at same level.2107 Did you not know that to God is the kingship of the heavens and the earth, and that you do not have besides God any guardian or supporter?
2108 Or do you want to ask your messenger as Moses was asked before? Whoever replaces belief with rejection, he has indeed strayed from the right path.2-108 is clear. Searching truth of God in alleaged sayings of Muhammad is rejection, even if those hadiths were true.
Peace
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salaam al-amiyr
forgive me the following agressivity.
i will make to you a clear accusation
"You are a moshrik". That is a mixer of words of Gods with words from other than God.
You are rejecting the "One Rabb/teacher claim" and need other arbabs.Let see how you can defend yourself and sorry again.
Is it not strange that the descendant of mushrik fore fathers now accuse a descendant of the fathers of monotheism as being mushrik.
You ask me how I can defend myself.
Here are the famous words of my 41st ancestor imaam "aliy ibn al-husayn zaynul "aabidiyn grandson of the prophet(S+) muhammad (S+) the messenger of the Lord of The Worlds. This is but a small section of writing of a long history of men, many of whom were killed, beheaded, and crucified by the mushriks for teaching the world the religion of ALLAAH1 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
the First, without a first before Him,
the Last, without a last behind Him.
2 Beholders' eyes fall short of seeing Him,
describers' imaginations are not able to depict Him.
3 He originated the creatures through His power with an origination,
He devised them in accordance with His will with a devising.
4 Then He made them walk on the path of His desire,
He sent them out on the way of His love.
They cannot keep back
from that to which He has sent them forward,
nor can they go forward
to that from which He has kept them back.
5 He assigned from His provision to each of their spirits
a nourishment known and apportioned.
No decreaser decreases those whom He increases,
no increaser increases those of them whom He decreases.
6 Then for each spirit He strikes a fixed term in life,
for each He sets up a determined end;
he walks toward it through the days of his span,
he overtakes it through the years of his time.
Then, when he takes his final step
and embraces the reckoning of his span,
God seizes him to the abundant reward
or the feared punishment
to which He has called him,
That He may repay those who do evil for what they have done
and repay those who do good with goodness,27
7 as justice from Him
(holy are His names,
and manifest His boons).
He shall not be questioned as to what He does,
but they shall be questioned.28
8 Praise belongs to ALLAAH, for,
had He withheld from His servants the knowledge to praise Him
for the uninterrupted kindnesses
with which He has tried them29
and the manifest favours
which He has lavished upon them,
they would have moved about in His kindnesses
without praising Him,
and spread themselves out in His provision
without thanking Him.
9 Had such been the case,
they would have left the bounds of humanity
for that of beastliness
and become as He has described in the firm text of His Book
They are but as the cattlenay, but they are further astray from the way!.30
10 Praise belongs to ALLAAH, for
the true knowledge of Himself He has given to us,
the thanksgiving He has inspired us to offer Him,
the doors to knowing His Lordship He has opened for us,
the sincerity towards Him in professing His Unity
to which He has led us,
and the deviation and doubt in His Command
from which He has turned us aside;
11 a praise through
which we may be given long life
among those of His creatures who praise Him,
and overtake those who have gone ahead
toward His good pleasure and pardon;
12 a praise through which
He will illuminate for us the shadows of the interworld,31
ease for us the path of the Resurrection,
and raise up our stations
at the standing places of the Witnesses32
on the day when every soul will be repaid
for what it has earned -
they shall not be wronged;33
the day a master shall avail nothing a client,
and they shall not be helped;34
13 a praise
which will rise up from us to the highest of the 'Illiyun35
in a book inscribed,
witnessed by those brought nigh,36
14 a praise whereby
our eyes may be at rest when sight is dazzled,37
our faces whitened when skins are blackened,38
15 a praise through which
we may be released from God's painful Fire
and enter ALLAAH's generous neighbourhood,
16 a praise by which
we may jostle the angels brought nigh
and join the prophets, the envoys,
in a House of Permanence that does not remove,
the Place of His Generosity that does not change.
17 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who chose for us the good qualities of creation,
granted us the agreeable things of provision,
18 and appointed for us excellence
through domination over all creation;
every one of His creatures submits to us
through His power
and comes to obey us
through His might.39
19 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who locked for us the gate of need
except toward Him.
So how can we praise Him?
When can we thank Him?
Indeed, when?
20 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who placed within us the organs of expansion,
assigned for us the agents of contraction,
gave us to enjoy the spirits of life,
fixed within us the limbs of works,
nourished us with the agreeable things of provision,
freed us from need through His bounty,
and gave us possessions through His kindness.
21 Then He commanded us that He might test our obedience
and prohibited us that He might try our thanksgiving.
So we turned against the path of His commandments
and mounted the backs of His warnings.
Yet He hurried us not to His punishment,
nor hastened us on to His vengeance.
No, He went slowly with us through His mercy,
in generosity,
and awaited our return through His clemency,
in mildness.
22 Praise belongs to ALLAAH,
who showed us the way to repentance,
which we would not have won save through His bounty.
Had we nothing to count as His bounty but this,
His trial of us would have been good,
His beneficence toward us great,
His bounty upon us immense.
23 For such was not His wont in repentance
with those who went before us.40
He has lifted up from us
what we have not the strength to bear,41
charged us only to our capacity,42
imposed upon us nothing but ease,
and left none of us with an argument or excuse.
24 So the perisher among us is he who perishes in spite of Him
and the felicitous among us he who beseeches Him.
25 And praise belongs to ALLAAH
with all the praises of
His angels closest to Him,
His creatures most noble in His eyes,
and His praisers most pleasing to Him;
26 a praise that may surpass other praises
as our Lord surpasses all His creatures.
27 Then to Him belongs praise,
in place of His every favour upon us
and upon all His servants, past and still remaining,
to the number of all things His knowledge encompasses,
and in place of each of His favours,
their number doubling and redoubling always and forever,
to the Day of Resurrection;
28 a praise whose bound has no utmost end,
whose number has no reckoning,
whose limit cannot be reached,
whose period cannot be cut off;
29 a praise which will become
a link to His obedience and pardon,
a tie to His good pleasure,
a means to His forgiveness,
a path to His Garden,
a protector against His vengeance,
a security against His wrath,
an aid to obeying Him,
a barrier against disobeying Him,
a help in fulfilling His right and His duties;
30 a praise that will make us felicitous
among His felicitous friends,
and bring us into the ranks
of those martyred by the swords of His enemies.
He is a Friend, Praiseworthy!...
your salaam returned -
Salaam al-amiyr,
Can you also answer questions from hicham9 and me?
You come here only to show, brag and boast about your awesome scholars that were your forefathers.
Since when did we, Qur'an alone muslims / true muslims / true monotheists of creed of Abraham support the mushriks who killed the true muslims who spread true islam?
What about those Saudi clerics who issued fatwas ruling women to suckle non-mahrams to become their mahrams just because women must be isolated from men?
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwallRegards,
Yuliana -
Salaam al-amiyr,
Can you also answer questions from hicham9 and me?
You come here only to show, brag and boast about your awesome scholars that were your forefathers.
Since when did we, Qur'an alone muslims / true muslims / true monotheists of creed of Abraham support the mushriks who killed the true muslims who spread true islam?
What about those Saudi clerics who issued fatwas ruling women to suckle non-mahrams to become their mahrams just because women must be isolated from men?
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwallRegards,
Yulianasalaam Yuliana
I like your new flag. I will answer your questions during the course of the day inshaa ALLAAH. Do not take anything personal. I take nothing personal. I enjoy debate no matter how heated as long as there is tolerance. In the end of the day we will all learn many things. That is my view.