Hijab
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Salam!
I understand. But the Koran says you must cover the chest, should I use a scarf?
Salaam Aaleyah,
If you have already worn a proper cloth such as shirt, blouse, coat that is modest, respectable and does not reveal the cleavages/chests like in this picture, you don't need an extra shawl or scarf to cover your chest.
http//sheownsit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/blouse.jpgRegards,
Yuliana -
Salam!
Yes I was in the mosque. A Sunni Mosque. But it's not quanrister mosque here. Sad to hear that he experiences it. Terrible that your bully was bullied, it is poorly done.
salaam Aaleyah
Your reply brought a smile to my face. ) However I never call myself Quranist. This is a name adopted by quite a few messed up people, who are using the Qur'an to create a religion, of their own choice, in compliance with modernity(not advanced).Let me tell you something about myself I have been one stubborn woman, who refused to cover my head. This was mainly out of a refusal to accept the head scarf as the ultimate show of compliance with Islam, and also because of the shallow attitude of many men and women, who think no further than covering their head. As one Arab said about hijabe its not the beginning and its not the end that has always been my mantra I had a good debate with many who wanted me to have my head covered, which of course I didn't. Yet quite a few of them still saw me as a good Muslima.
For me, a person needs to first earn my respect. Then only I will listen to them; no respect no compliance. Simple as that. I came to know al-amiyr in December on this site, and I straight away sensed an exceptional quality of a teacher/Imaam in him, which fitted my expectation and have never seen before, in anyone throughout my life. I have not cashed in on my education, as I always viewed knowledge as a wealth in itself.
I started taking lessons from him, at the same time keeping my eyes open. When I started learning we never discussed the issue of head cover, which is not the same as hijab, as it was not a pre-requsite to learn.
Do you know what happened yesterday? when in this thread I read brother al-amiyr's; ? Reply #1 on Yesterday at 114842 AM
You know what I did? I turned around straight away, and put the scarf by my side, on my head, even though I was at home on my own, today I dug into my wardrobe, and went out as usual, but with head fully covered!I have great admiration and respect for someone like raspberry red, who at young age is learning properly and going around in hijab without hesitation, whereas for some one of my age taking the hijab is nothing great. I went on for all these years showing off my hair. I was feeling bad about it and asked ALLAAH for forgiveness. As always I got my response from my reading of the Qur'an and so felt better.
Later I remember hadith when after Aiysha's (ra) sister Asma visited Prophet Muhmmad sas showed his disapproval at her style of dressing and was asked how should women dress. He described how they should cover their body up to their hands and cover their heads. Upon hearing that, all the believing women picked what ever was available to cover their heads with; some tore part of material from upholstery around. wow
I also realised that this advice to dress up in certain way came at later time, when Khadija(ra) was dead and Aiysha (ra) had been taken as his last wife, and people understood the meaning of believing men and women.
So from my personal experience I have seen quite a few hadiyth replayed since December 2012, right in front of my eyes which included a woman constantly 'throwing dirt' on brother al-amiyr. hmmI am sorry for this long post, but sometimes you experience extraordinary things, and like to share it out of excitement. Don't forget to read my first proper lesson on skype with al-amiyr which I will post here on sabath insha'ALLAAH
salaam +
group -
Dear Farida,
Since when did God make compulsory for women to wear the headscarf in the Qur'an?Can you please tell us why women MUST cover their hair whilst men can expose their hair?
Is women hair also the COMPOSITION of woman's body?Seriously I am sick of this. I am sick of people saying women must cover almost everything, including their hair to honor themselves. So hair is a dishonor?
salaam Aaleyah
Your reply brought a smile to my face. ) However I never call myself Quranist. This is a name adopted by quite a few messed up people, who are using the Qur'an to create a religion, of their own choice, in compliance with modernity(not advanced).Let me tell you something about myself I have been one stubborn woman, who refused to cover my head. This was mainly out of a refusal to accept the head scarf as the ultimate show of compliance with Islam, and also because of the shallow attitude of many men and women, who think no further than covering their head. As one Arab said about hijabe its not the beginning and its not the end that has always been my mantra I had a good debate with many who wanted me to have my head covered, which of course I didn't. Yet quite a few of them still saw me as a good Muslima. o
For me, a person needs to first earn my respect. Then only I will listen to them; no respect no compliance. Simple as that. I came to know al-amiyr in December on this site, and I straight away sensed an exceptional quality of a teacher/Imaam in him, which fitted my expectation and have never seen before, in anyone throughout my life. I have not cashed in on my education, as I always viewed knowledge as a wealth in itself.
I started taking lessons from him, at the same time keeping my eyes open. When I started learning we never discussed the issue of head cover, which is not the same as hijab, as it was not a pre-requsite to learn.
Do you know what happened yesterday? when in this thread I read brother al-amiyr's; ? Reply #1 on Yesterday at 114842 AM
You know what I did? I turned around straight away, and put the scarf by my side, on my head, even though I was at home on my own, today I dug into my wardrobe, and went out as usual, but with head fully covered!I have great admiration and respect for someone like raspberry red, who at young age is learning properly and going around in hijab without hesitation, whereas for some one of my age taking the hijab is nothing great. I went on for all these years showing off my hair. I was feeling bad about it and asked ALLAAH for forgiveness. As always I got my response from my reading of the Qur'an and so felt better.
Later I remember hadith when after Aiysha's (ra) sister Asma visited Prophet Muhmmad sas showed his disapproval at her style of dressing and was asked how should women dress. He described how they should cover their body up to their hands and cover their heads. Upon hearing that, all the believing women picked what ever was available to cover their heads with; some tore part of material from upholstery around. wow
I also realised that this advice to dress up in certain way came at later time, when Khadija(ra) was dead and Aiysha (ra) had been taken as his last wife, and people understood the meaning of believing men and women.
So from my personal experience I have seen quite a few hadiyth replayed since December 2012, right in front of my eyes which included a woman constantly 'throwing dirt' on brother al-amiyr. hmmI am sorry for this long post, but sometimes you experience extraordinary things, and like to share it out of excitement. Don't forget to read my first proper lesson on skype with al-amiyr which I will post here on sabath insha'ALLAAH
salaam +
group -
Dear Farida,
Since when did God make compulsory for women to wear the headscarf in the Qur'an?Can you please tell us why women MUST cover their hair whilst men can expose their hair?
Is women hair also the COMPOSITION of woman's body?Seriously I am sick of this. I am sick of people saying women must cover almost everything, including their hair to honor themselves. So hair is a dishonor?
Forgive me for not reading this thread entirely but I can see the reasons why women should cover their hair. Hair is among one of the most attractive features of a woman to men. It sends out pheromones, which are chemicals omitted from the hair, to attract one to the opposite sex. Those chemicals/hormones produce feelings such as lust and physical attraction in a person. I can tell you I've seen it many times with males in regards with women's hair. Additionally, if you look at women from the past in photographic and artistic depictions, almost always they had covered their hair (especially faithful women) or at least tied it up. Even if one considers that outdated, us Muslims should know that 'progression' means nothing, as so much of traditional morals have disintegrated into obscenity. Also, covering of one's hair identifies one as a pious woman. Otherwise it's difficult to tell.
Of course, you are free to your choices but please be cautious rather than advise others with 'injustice' sentiments, as those kinds of feelings can easily sway others and take people down a slope fast. Women especially need to take heed. In the 50s, they corrupted the women first, by slowing showing more skin and sexuality in tv programs and films and eventually the men followed. The damage has been irreversible. This has been the general way for corruption in society. -
Asiya,
Very goooood.
Keep talking garbage.
Why must women hide their hair whilst men can show their hair or even have hairstyles?Didn't you remember the story of Joseph?
Why can't women look beautiful without promiscuity?
Why do you and other traditional Muslims equate women' hair with women's composition, breasts and genitalia?
Covering hair = piety?
Which one is more pious to you?
The girl in the far left in the first picture or the head-covered women with blue costume in second picture?http//www.omiru.com/wp-content/images/tieneckblouse_020408.jpg
http//diarisangap.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/tudung-seksi-nampak-dada-3.jpg?w=680
Forgive me for not reading this thread entirely but I can see the reasons why women should cover their hair. Hair is among one of the most attractive features of a woman to men. It sends out pheromones, which are chemicals omitted from the hair, to attract one to the opposite sex. Those chemicals/hormones produce feelings such as lust and physical attraction in a person. I can tell you I've seen it many times with males in regards with women's hair. Additionally, if you look at women from the past in photographic and artistic depictions, almost always they had covered their hair (especially faithful women) or at least tied it up. Even if one considers that outdated, us Muslims should know that 'progression' means nothing, as so much of traditional morals have disintegrated into obscenity. Also, covering of one's hair identifies one as a pious woman. Otherwise it's difficult to tell.
Of course, you are free to your choices but please be cautious rather than advise others with 'injustice' sentiments, as those kinds of feelings can easily sway others and take people down a slope fast. Women especially need to take heed. In the 50s, they corrupted the women first, by slowing showing more skin and sexuality in tv programs and films and eventually the men followed. The damage has been irreversible. This has been the general way for corruption in society. -
Salaam Asiya,
I think I have to agree with you. The hair, especially well-tended hair, is something which turns men on. However, it is this together with the rest of the face and female "freshness" which causes it.
There is absolutely no compulsion in religion, but as you said, it is a bit morally wrong to discourage people who may want to cover their hair by saying all sorts of things about the practice. Covering the hair is an act of modesty and historically not only been exclusively women but also men even in the Western World wore hats because it was regarded as modest. Those who rebuke Middle-Eastern tradition of covering the hair must have forgotten their own past.
However, it is wrong when it is regarded as compulsory and women are forced to wear headdresses which cover absolutely everything against their will.
There are additional ways except to don a headdress and that can be abstaining from (excessive) makeup, challenging clothes and the likes.
When a woman (or man) undress as to reveal something it shows a desire to show off. It is given that this is the purpose of the deliberate action. However, we must think about how extreme measures one has to take just to not risk coming along as immodest. Is it so extreme a show off to display some hair?
It does not matter much, however, if a woman wears a headdress if she looks good because a man can "feel" this beauty and freshness so if this is the factor to use then women should be forbidden altogether and confined to dark cellars somewhere as the extremist so sectarian psychoes believe. We cannot prevent some women from being natural beauties.
On the other hand it is a bit silly to see 60 year old women wearing 'chador' (a kind of cloak worn to cover the whole body exluding the face) when their natural beauty has faded and Quran also mentions about them. Only weird men get turned on by these women.
Obviously Quran means to dress in revealing ways and to use the body in "sexy" movements like in gestures and body language. Women seem to instinctively use this feminine behavior of attracting interesting prospects. If minding ones own behavior we can self-prevent this.
Men also do this but more in like showing strength, possessions and social status (and other typical features).
God bless you
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Peace be upon thee,
And I believe the matter of 'hijab' might as well extend to men. Men are not free of the same religious responsibility of being modest when it comes to clothing. When men are around women they might think about wearing long-sleeved shirts and not too tight clothes as to reveal their muscles.
In the past it was also common for men to wear hats just for the same reason as women in islam, ie be righteous. Unfortunately, today people may regard you as strange if you don a hat, but a cap is okay so well tha is cool, however I do not look good in a cap.
Guess I suffer from the common issue of caring too much of what others think. However, I might have started to grow old enough not to care about such matters as what people think. Always wanted to don a typical cowboy hat.
Head wear has always been part of the outfit. But when we talk about islam it is taboo.
Starting to show our nakedness is a sign of demoralization however I think. And then I did not imply on headdresses but the undressing overall. What is it we want to display anyway?
God bless you
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Forgive me for not reading this thread entirely but I can see the reasons why women should cover their hair. Hair is among one of the most attractive features of a woman to men. It sends out pheromones, which are chemicals omitted from the hair, to attract one to the opposite sex. Those chemicals/hormones produce feelings such as lust and physical attraction in a person. I can tell you I've seen it many times with males in regards with women's hair. Additionally, if you look at women from the past in photographic and artistic depictions, almost always they had covered their hair (especially faithful women) or at least tied it up. Even if one considers that outdated, us Muslims should know that 'progression' means nothing, as so much of traditional morals have disintegrated into obscenity. Also, covering of one's hair identifies one as a pious woman. Otherwise it's difficult to tell.
Of course, you are free to your choices but please be cautious rather than advise others with 'injustice' sentiments, as those kinds of feelings can easily sway others and take people down a slope fast. Women especially need to take heed. In the 50s, they corrupted the women first, by slowing showing more skin and sexuality in tv programs and films and eventually the men followed. The damage has been irreversible. This has been the general way for corruption in society.What a bunch of crap.
The Qur'an does not say a word about this nor hint that women females should cover more thna males other than the breasts. It does say breasts, right? So why if more htings are meant it does not say them?
This is really a brainwashing conspiracy this insistence on womens obligation to dress one way or the other. If people want to opress women with this nonsense fine but it is self serving and it is against Qur'an.
Hijab is a full modern invention. Not long ago everywhere in the muslim world and even outside the muslim world, men dressed as much traditionally as women and covered their heads. Now, thanks to the modern revolution, a divorce has taen place and men may dress however they want, they may dress fully european., but women cannot even dress traditionally if that tradition does not agree with the ridiculous hijab.
Thbis is as much an assault on women as the assault to use their nudity or their sex for advertising an shocking. Both are the two extremes where they want to push women and treat them as merchandise, one way or the other.
Arfn't we sick of it? Is it not a disgrace in a forum where the word of God, textual, should be heard and revered?
Here we are onece more talking crap about how women should dress and temptation and what not. It is as if we were back in the epoch of the obssessed hermits where the body of the woman was the devil.
Where does the Qur'an says that women should dress thinking of the males and nto in their comfort?
Shame on those who talk abotu Qur'an and kick women around.
One should expect this amongs obssessed "traditionalists", but in a place where people supposedly ara awake it is outright depressing, very depressing.
Salaam
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The Mediterraneans / Middle-Easterners culture, custom and tradition mandated their women to cover their hair / head.
And so does the tradition in pre Quran Arabic / Desert People society.
Evidence; statue of al-Uzza or Allat, the Desert People/Arab's goddess of fertility.
http//arabianwomen.nielsonpi.com/images492/Inannasm.jpg
Since The Quran's context was in such region / tradition. And mind you the environment was not a 'friendly environment' at all (to avoid calling it "Dangerous". Thus it does recommend to follow the local clothing habits to avoid "Getting Unwanted Attention".
The top objective is the Women's safety (of getting raped, kidnapped etc.. which was common and rampant in the area where the Quran was being written)
Thus when you're in area where wearing certain clothing is considered 'dangerous' for you. Well then adapt your clothing style.. the top objective remain the same.. to avoid "Getting Unwanted Attention" and securing your own safety.
Salam / Peace
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Peace be upon thee,
And I believe the matter of 'hijab' might as well extend to men. Men are not free of the same religious responsibility of being modest when it comes to clothing. When men are around women they might think about wearing long-sleeved shirts and not too tight clothes as to reveal their muscles.
God bless you
+salaam
This reminded me of incidence when I was going towards prayer room in my university and a man coming out of prayer room said to me 'sister wear hijab' in a authoritative manner I replied back in same tone 'brother lower you gaze first as stated first in the Qur'an' o You should have seen his face then -[
Obviously Quran means to dress in revealing ways and to use the body in "sexy" movements like in gestures and body language. Women seem to instinctively use this feminine behaviour of attracting interesting prospects. If minding ones own behavior we can self-prevent this.
God bless you
This reminded me of another occasion in the same university when after winning my arguments on the subject of Islam, I was walking back with lot of pride and authority (tick tock, hmm after all it was about the Qur'aan), next I read in the Qur'aan; 3118 "And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor WALK in insolence through the earth; for Allah loveth not any arrogant boaster.
My walking became quite recognisable often drawing attention as high heels make noise, once a women said to me; I knew it was you from your hearing foot steps, this reminded me the advice in the Qur'aan And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty so out went my high heeled shoes (not wedges).
Dear Farida,
Since when did God make compulsory for women to wear the headscarf in the Qur'an?Dear brother
As you can see there is no compulsion in the Qur'aan just reminder from time to time 'Allah loveth not' and advice 'Do not', And tell rest is choice.Bless you all
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Blessings be upon thee,
Thanks to a modern revolution? Well, I doubt it is all for the better. One positive and important aspect is that it is no longer compulsory, but all positive I am not willing to agree on.
This dress code has been exploited and used to control particularly women but it is not all evil with scarves and this practice of wearing something on your head. It originates from the ideas that one ought to be modest and humble. But like I wrote; it is a piece of clothing like that in case you would wear a pair of shoes on your feet and as you can walk barefoot you can also remove your hat. It is as vulgar to remove the hat as to take off your shoes, ie not dangerous at all even if you reveal a small fraction of your bodily parts.
Half the modesty Quran talks about is what you do with your body and not how you make a display of it.
Many traditional muslim women (own experience living in Iran) are afraid that a foreign man happen to see her nakedness (hair) and this is worrying. In some "pious" women this causes immense psychological stress and it seems to means almost equal to death if even their hair is seen. What is forgotten is that to fulfill that sin is to undress deliberately and then engage in seduction.
What is also strange is that there seems to be no difference if it is the private parts or the hair, the "sin" is equal by the disproportionate reaction. Although the hair is a feature of beauty it is no more a vulgar body part than the feet. We can also not let ourselves become like ghosts and not live just because we are afraid of being immodest.
A headdress should be regarded just as a pair of socks, ie part of the outfit. It can extend the individual modesty, but it is not worse than becoming barefoot. We cannot even remotely compare this to if a woman reveal part of her breasts.
My point in this and previous posts is to tell the message that hats and headdresses are nothing wrong and it can be a personal choice in the definition of modesty. We ought not to call the decision to use these clothes as stupid or bad. Only that no one should be forced to wear them due to religious zealotry.
God bless you
-
The Mediterraneans / Middle-Easterners culture, custom and tradition mandated their women to cover their hair / head.
And so does the tradition in pre Quran Arabic / Desert People society.
Evidence; statue of al-Uzza or Allat, the Desert People/Arab's goddess of fertility.
http//arabianwomen.nielsonpi.com/images492/Inannasm.jpg
Since The Quran's context was in such region / tradition. And mind you the environment was not a 'friendly environment' at all (to avoid calling it "Dangerous". Thus it does recommend to follow the local clothing habits to avoid "Getting Unwanted Attention".
The top objective is the Women's safety (of getting raped, kidnapped etc.. which was common and rampant in the area where the Quran was being written)
Thus when you're in area where wearing certain clothing is considered 'dangerous' for you. Well then adapt your clothing style.. the top objective remain the same.. to avoid "Getting Unwanted Attention" and securing your own safety.
Salam / Peace
Salaam,
Seriously I don't understand why some people equate women's HAIR/HEAD with private parts, breasts and other women's sexually attractive body parts.
I don't understand why women's hair/head is the reason of rape in the eyes of some hijab freaks.
Seriously I don't understand why some people think that women must cover almost all parts of her body to avoid rape why men just do nothing.
Does HAIR/HEAD make men arousal?
I don't understand why men can show their head/hair why women can't.
Too much male chauvinism entered in Islam.Regards,
Yuliana -
Peace family,
What is to be covered by women is what distinguishes them from men, in addition, both
men and women are commanded to lower their gaze. Therefore, a woman should be
covered from below the neck to the knees in clothing that does not reveal what is beneath
the clothing, easy right? Do not walk in such a way as to reveal what is beneath her clothing.The clothing is of little value if she does not lower the gaze, that is why the lowering of the
gaze is mentioned first in ayat 24/31 because it is the first prerequisite to modesty!peace
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So finally, as I can see, the Qur'an is completely useless, since everybody here is giving their own recipe as to how a believing woman should dress. The part in which women are different from men, that it is said they should cover, I would suppose that it would be he same for males and females since when where women are different form men, men in turn are also different from women, ?right? Though of course that also is a question of logic and not something that is in Qur'an either.
As far as I am concerned, it makes me laugh to fix a point in the body where modesty starts and where modesty ends. As I said previously, we are getting to do the same as the people of Musa with the calf to be scrificed.
I insist again that those parts that are different in males and females, to be fair, and to help homosexual males along, at least, women seems that do not need to be taken into account, only to impose obligations on them, so I say males also should cover those parts ?or not? Women lead to sin and men do not not even homosexual males? Because that is very grave. We all know what an awful terrible sin sodomy and men should not be incited to fall into that horrible vice. ?right? Save the straightness of the human species. It shoudl be worth the while ?or not?
Yes, I do I wonder how gullible we can get. And how disociated.
The Qur'an depicts how a man did drive crazy some women to the point where they assaulted him. If women are more dangerous from that point of view, the Qur'an for certain has not cared to inform us. According to the Qur'an and followign the crazy unreasoning of the hijabers, men should cover from the top of the head to the shoes, because they, in the Qur'an did drive women crazy. No woman in the Qur'an manages that.
Are muslims at some time getting out of this spell of equating women with dressing and undressing? Looks like not. To me it looks as a real proper disease.
Also, shouldn't we start some circumcision campaign for males where instead of touching their valuable genitalia their brain was excised of those lustful neurons that pose such a health hazard to themselves and to women. Makes sense ?right?
Salam
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Peace huruf,
I understand your frustration, but there are no dress codes for men in Quran except
to be modest and to lower the gaze, neither of which is clothing. You may inquire
why God specifically addresses a women's appearance more so than a man's and
seek the wisdom of such a directive instead of succumbing to frustration.peace
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Of course I am stupid and I talk without having inquired. ?How could I be that silly? It seems that I just needed your ever so wise advice to enquire. Finally it is only some thousands of people who have given the same advice before, also without taking the trouble to listen or to read or responding to the grounds I have written or said.
Dismissing out of hand and putting somebody in his or her place is far more virtuous than finding out their grounds or giving any attention to what they say. In this thread and in another one I have explained many things. But it is just damned far more comfortable to give oh so pious advice than to take into account what one does not care to take into account. Why should women not be bothered. Aren't they women? Let them pay for it.
But in spite of how stupid I am that it didn't occur to me to question or find out or reflect on the Qur'an, you still are not giving a single proof of the hijab crap from the very Qur'an. You, holy hijab worshippers, keep recycling the same old crap over and over and you do not care to read what others and I have said, and continue fancying and caressing your ungrounded but comfortable speculations on ayas from which you do not intent to extract any meaning that shakes your pretty comfort.
I am not frustrated, It simply tires triyng to explain with some people just not wanting any explanation that shakes their comfort, refusing to see such explanations, ignoring them. The tactic seems to be to wear off the opponent, but I am not going to shut up to keep hijabers in the bliss of the women having some extra duty for the male's sake and their crap temptations blabber and their crap overbearing attitudes to "undiscisciplined" females.
However, Hawk something good for you you at least have not brought in the usual
circus about feminism and all that, at least not yet.Thanks therefore for God's little blessings. And excuse if I have come down sharply. I find you particularly likeable as a forumer, and may be that is why I take the trouble of being more honest with you. Or should I be not more honest but more modest?
I do not kid myself that I will ever get any attention in thsi forum or in any other either being more honest or being more modest. Uncomgortable things usually are ignored. Good for the ignorers, may be they will never have to know in this life so why bother.
Oh and I see that many holy hijab reverers keep discovering that males and females are different. That is a great achievement, very important indeed, otherwise we might have been confused that they were delivered by their male parent. Congratulations.
Salaam