is Hajj a once in a life time thing, or something to do with everyday........
-
2197
For Hajj are the months well known. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.
The ayah says
no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling
The quistion are you allowed to do these things any time, at all?? (apart from war of course)
rotfl
-
I have read some of your posts.
You are just one of Ali Sina's hardcore fans right?
Regards,
Yuliana -
I have read some of your posts.
You are just one of Ali Sina's hardcore fans right?
Regards,
YulianaNo Yuliana,
Never heard of the guy, sorry.
I have been to hajj about five times - that was some time ago, and my best of friends are Mulsims.
but being frank/ honest here is the best thing.
If we are told not to do these things during the period of hajj, does this mean we are allowed to do these at other times. We aren't allowed to do these at any time full stop.
Its like saying when you go to Jumma, no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling must be undertaken!!!
Does it make sense?
-
No Yuliana,
Never heard of the guy, sorry.
Ali Sina is an ex-muslim and anti-muslim from Iran who runs faithfreedom.org , an anti-Islamic site.
I see some of your posts smell anti-Islamic.I have been to hajj about five times - that was some time ago, and my best of friends are Mulsims.
but being frank/ honest here is the best thing.
If we are told not to do these things during the period of hajj, does this mean we are allowed to do these at other times. We aren't allowed to do these at any time full stop.
Its like saying when you go to Jumma, no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling must be undertaken!!!
Does it make sense?
Free-minds translation
2197 The Pilgrimage months are made known. So whoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage therein, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor wickedness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O you who possess intelligenceNo sexual intercourse in the Pilgrimage (either married or not married). But in other cases (except while fasting in the day of fasting month), Qur'an only prohibits sexual intercourse outside of marriage.
etc etc etcPilgrimage is a sacred journey to a sacred place so a person who pilgrims to a sacred place must not do 'unholy' things.
I wish I could explain it further.Well, if a teacher says ''no fighting in class", does that mean fighting is okay outside of class? No, right?
Just need common sense.Regards,
Yuliana -
To be honest
''no fighting in class", does that mean fighting is okay outside of class? No, right?
rotfl rotfl
Of course it means it is okay outside.
usualy it is "no talking in class"
which is perfectly okay as you can talk outside but in the class people should listen to the teacher..........and concentrate on work.
and regarding your words
usualy a teacher will say "No Fighting In My Class Room!"
Which means what goes on outside the class is none of his business. He isn't responsible for what they do outside but is responsible for what goes on in the class.
But Allah is responsible for what ever we do any time day and night - so he bars people doing bad irrespective of time (unless it is war or something - of course)
But Yuliana i am not , no way in any shape or form , converting you - i used to believe like you that is why i have been to hajj five times.
Nothing wrong going there it is ones own business.
peace
-
Are you a peaceful type of anti/ex-muslim?
Some of your posts prove that you only come here to laugh at islam and Qur'an.
Outside of Pilgrimage, God also says in the Qur'an not to do evil things/ wickedness and baseless narrations and illegal sex.
"I used to believe like you"
Believe what? I don't consider the Pagan worship in Mecca to be the true Hajj and I am an ex-sunni.What is your religion now? No religion (atheism or agnosticism) or Christianity?
Regards,
Yuliana -
Are you a peaceful type of anti/ex-muslim?
Some of your posts prove that you only come here to laugh at islam and Qur'an.
No i don't lugh at islam or the quran but may be laugh at what some people believe in as i used to believe in a lot of the nonsense - but to each their understanding.
What is your religion now? No religion (atheism or agnosticism) or Christianity?
Just believe in God and try to do Good to others, i know that may not be much of a religion but to me it is all anyone needs.
peace
-
You said you just believe in God but I read some of your threads, you talked BS about God. confused . Or did you change your mind?
Don't lie. You DO laugh, mock and taunt Qur'an and islam.
But don't worry. Most free-minds Qur'an-alone monotheists won't track you to behead you.
But if you feel like you just want to make fun of Qur'an and islam, rejester an account on faithfreedom.org .Regards,
Yuliana -
You said you just believe in God but I read some of your threads, you talked BS about God. confused . Or did you change your mind?
Don't lie. You DO laugh, mock and taunt Qur'an and islam.
But don't worry. Most free-minds Qur'an-alone monotheists won't track you to behead you.
But if you feel like you just want to make fun of Qur'an and islam, rejester an account on faithfreedom.org .Regards,
YulianaSound like a true sunni
Mind i love sunni gals married three of them , vow! No i wouldn't chop their heads they are too good.
eat
-
Sound like a true sunni
Mind i love sunni gals married three of them , vow! No i wouldn't chop their heads they are too good.
eat
How does saying that make me a Sunni?
Or did you misunderstand my post?
I didn't say I want to behead youI'm always against Sunni sharia law including beheading.
-
Peace,
I just wanted to reply to your latest post on your thread that has been sent to TRASH yay
Does my phrase "But don't worry. Most Free-minds Qur'an-alone monotheists won't track you to behead you" make you. think that I want you to be be beheaded?
The phrase did not mean that I wished you to be beheaded but I was just saying that if you taunted, mocked and laughed at islam and Qur'an in front of Qur'an-alone monotheists (which include me), we won't track you to behead you.
But if you do those things in front of Sunnis, .............But it's true that some of your posts, you mock and make fun of Qur'an. For example this thread.
Regards,
Yuliana -
Peace,
I just wanted to reply to your latest post on your thread that has been sent to TRASH yay
Does my phrase "But don't worry. Most Free-minds Qur'an-alone monotheists won't track you to behead you" make you. think that I want you to be be beheaded?
The phrase did not mean that I wished you to be beheaded but I was just saying that if you taunted, mocked and laughed at islam and Qur'an in front of Qur'an-alone monotheists (which include me), we won't track you to behead you.
But if you do those things in front of Sunnis, .............But it's true that some of your posts, you mock and make fun of Qur'an. For example this thread.
Regards,
Yulianayou can take it as you like....I do what I think is right.
-
Perhaps you miss a rather obvious point
al hajj is open to all mankind, not only believers, thus they (mankind) may not be following any particular guidance as believers do with Quran, hence are told XYZ about behaviour.
As you said the ayah is for all mankind , and not for believers, as believers don't do xyz anyway. But other main thing - God Doesn't tell anyone don't fight in a masjid, He simply says don't fight full stop (accept in war) .
So what you said People shouldnt do xyz at hajj , but can otherwise is totally , uncanny.
exapmle
when going about dealing with others Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling........but if we say hajj is a three day event or 4 months event......then to to say let there be no wickedness on hajj ....is simply saying that wickedness is allowed and acceptable otherwise.
It is so easy to understand, i don't know why people here can't .
-
But other main thing - God Doesn't tell anyone don't fight in a masjid, He simply says don't fight full stop (accept in war) .
Are you familiar with Quran 2191
...and do not fight them in the presence of al masjid al haram until they fight you fee/in it...?
So what you said People shouldnt do xyz at hajj , but can otherwise is totally , uncanny.
Mz357, you know from our past discussions I do not consider your logic sound, which one can forgive, but please do not misrepresent me and put words in my mouth. I never said such a thing. This is your own conclusion based on your own reasoning, not my reasoning, see the key phrase in bold below demonstrating it is your interpretation/reasoning
exapmle
when going about dealing with others Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling........but if we say hajj is a three day event or 4 months event......then to to say let there be no wickedness on hajj ....is simply saying that wickedness is allowed and acceptable otherwise.
I reject your reasoning.
-
Are you familiar with Quran 2191
...and do not fight them in the presence of "m until they fight you fee/in it...?
I did not say "al masjid al haram". I did mean a normal masjid - ask any Muslim to know what that is.
al hajj is open to all mankind, not only believers, thus they (mankind) may not be following any particular guidance as believers do with Quran, hence are told XYZ about behaviour.
well i thought that meant how i put it - so i missunderstood your post.
I reject your reasoning.
Thanks to God.
-
I did not say "al masjid al haram". I did mean a normal masjid - ask any Muslim to know what that is.
Ahhh, then tell us what is the difference between "masjid" and "al masjid al haram" that will negate the point I am making?
And I do hope you realise I just picked one verse, there are other verses which discuss doing certain things with or in masjid etc.
well i thought that meant how i put it - so i missunderstood your post.
Perhaps I can simplify for you
believers are upholding Quran, and in this Quran it tells believers to act a certain way, do this, that etc.
The rest of mankind may not believe in Quran, may not uphold Quran BUT "al hajj" is open to all IF one abides by certain criteria/guidance/recommendations, hence the criteria/guidance is given, e.g. no XYZ in "al hajj".
So, the simple predicament is what if a person does not believe in Quran, but wants to attend "al hajj" for the benefits, trade, food etc - can they just go and do what they want when there? Yes/No.
If you answer "no", then tell us, how should Quran go about advising them with regard to basic rules of behaviour when there?
Don't run away 357.
ps - by the way, it is ok to say something like "I dont believe al hajj is some finite event, so the above does not apply to my view. I think it's something all the time, but I haven't formulated what exactly it is"
-
Ahhh, then tell us what is the difference between "masjid" and "al masjid al haram" that will negate the point I am making?
well i was simply referring to the normal understanding of a msjid as a stone structure, but if you ask me the difference of the quranic masjid and masjid al haram, well one is haram and one isn't.
And I do hope you realise I just picked one verse, there are other verses which discuss doing certain things with or in masjid etc.
Please bring some to this table.
But a law that is appliccable throughout the land can't be tied to one location by the government of the land, irrespective of how important the place.
Perhaps I can simplify for you
believers are upholding Quran, and in this Quran it tells believers to act a certain way, do this, that etc.
That is fine , but to say there must be "no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling" during a certain period of time is indicative of the fact that it is acceptable otherwise.
The rest of mankind may not believe in Quran, may not uphold Quran BUT "al hajj" is open to all IF one abides by certain criteria/guidance/recommendations, hence the criteria/guidance is given, e.g. no XYZ in "al hajj".
So, the simple predicament is what if a person does not believe in Quran, but wants to attend "al hajj" for the benefits, trade, food etc - can they just go and do what they want when there? Yes/No.
If you answer "no", then tell us, how should Quran go about advising them with regard to basic rules of behaviour when there?
Now i know what you mean , your saying that this is an invitation to the rest of mankind who don't observe the quranic laws anyway , to behave themselves. And i don't think you believe in the Hajj that takes place in Saudi Arabia, Your Hajj is somewhat different.
Why on earth will people who believe in obscenity, wickedness, wrangling want to come to your Hajj?
The Ayah's are simply telling people no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in your daily affairs please, because that is what benefits mankind in general.
ps - by the way, it is ok to say something like "I dont believe al hajj is some finite event, so the above does not apply to my view. I think it's something all the time, but I haven't formulated what exactly it is"
Absolutely it is something that we do daily.
peace
-
well i was simply referring to the normal understanding of a msjid as a stone structure, but if you ask me the difference of the quranic masjid and masjid al haram, well one is haram and one isn't.
Yes, but I meant how does this difference negate my point.
Please bring some to this table.
No problem, please see
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-quran.html
I even make a nice summary at the end.Why on earth will people who believe in obscenity, wickedness, wrangling want to come to your Hajj?
So the discussion has moved on from your original objection to this new one. Good.
The Ayah's are simply telling people no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in your daily affairs please, because that is what benefits mankind in general.
Absolutely it is something that we do daily.
Thank you for clarifying your view. When you have time, please formulate an analysis of the verses that renders your view logical. Don't rush, take your time.
-
Perhaps you miss a rather obvious point
al hajj is open to all mankind, not only believers, thus they (mankind) may not be following any particular guidance as believers do with Quran, hence are told XYZ about behaviour.
Red highlight above is from me.
928,
O you who believe, the Mushriks are impure indeed, so let them not approach Al-Masjid-ul-Haram after this year. And if you apprehend poverty, then, Allah shall, if He wills, make you self-sufficient with His grace. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
Peace,
Khalil
