Do you openly address yourself as a Quran only/God Alone Muslim in public?
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Al- Amiyr
Many salams,This is a thread of mikebloke to who I am responding as to how I get along and coexist and communicate in public where many religious groups are living.
Here in the Islamic forum when you mention ayats, I only bring to your notice with strong commitment against your contradictory points. Definitely my intention is not to bring you into argument but only to ascertain if there appears any clarity on either side. If you look back into your threads, I would not have posted more than 8 posts all put together if I am correct. If you cannot digest even this, I am sorry.
Friendly yours.
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Salam sisters, brothers.
I thought I'd ask this question, interested in your responses as I think its quite important in regards to self-esteem and respect how one acts both with friends (by this, I include places like this where it is openly discussed with like minded people) and outside (such as interactions with sectarian Muslims).
From what I've read during my time here, I've noticed that the topics that do involve talking about a developing Quran only/God Alone community and ideology the fear of simply creating another sect or splinter group/'religion' comes up. I think this is a valid fear, and probably the one that makes me not openly profess myself as a Quran only/God Alone even on here.
Instead, I'm just 'me' and I have my opinions; it just so happens I'm very happy to share them with others even if they don't want to hear it. I have gotten myself in some trouble and heated arguments for expressing such views to both Sunni and Shia.
I am aware though that my position is special, as a white convert in the UK, I'm usually dismissed as a bit weird and irrelevant (and often told I'm wrong), in some countries, expressing similar views is a death sentence.
So how do you express your beliefs in public? How real is the dangers for you? And also how expansive is your range of friends and relatives know of your views?
+salaam Mikebloke
I hope to share this with you. Where a man stand today he might not stand tomorrow. This is called an open mind. I share with you this little what I wrote before. Keep well otherwise and be safe on your journey. One never knows at which junction one will meet.
salaam+
Up to the age of about 36 years about twelve years ago I refused to have anything to do with anything other than the qur'aan. I did not, however, deny myself the full investigation of all the other scriptures purporting to be the words of the Creator.
I gave over a thousand lectures and nearly in all of them I was asked why I did not make any reference to any 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths). My categorical replies always were, "Why must I go to other sources of information when the qur'aan was perfectly clear on the matter. And how could other sources other than the qur'aan be trusted."
I ,however, was also not so bold to declare the invalidity of statements I also did not fully understand at the time. One cannot dismiss anything without first understanding the matter. This could be a grave error. Not for true seekers in my opinion.
After many discoveries in the qur'aan which brought me into conflict with many Muslims, I was greatly surprised many years later that there were hadiyths of the prophet(S+) that exactly corresponded to my findings. I was greatly surprised at this and suddenly I found that the very hadiyths that I did not investigate before became weapons against the falsehood that has crept into the religion of islaam. I have also discovered that many of those who claim to be followers of the 'ahaadiyth are not followers at all. They use selected 'ahaadiyth to back up their ideologies and then dismiss the others.
Then about ten years ago I began a hurried study of all the books that record the 'ahaadiyth. I have now without exaggeration studied about 10 000 to 15 000. Many will be amazed at the outcome of all the information. All those whom I met and whom I made negative before now see the 'ahaadiyth in a different light. I am now also busy putting an 'ahaadiyth website together for all for a better understanding.
I will also post some threads about some of the findings inshaa ALLAAH.
+salaam
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Peace,
Just because we reject hadiths, doesn't mean that we don't or never study them. They are all Persian inventions. There were no hadith manuscripts until 13th CE.
My mom has known that I am no longer a Sunni.
Regards,
Yuliana -
Peace,
Just because we reject hadiths, doesn't mean that we don't or never study them. They are all Persian inventions. There were no hadith manuscripts until 13th CE.
My mom has known that I am no longer a Sunni.
Regards,
YulianaPersians??? Which Hadiths are you talking about?
And why you 'credited' (only) the Persian for authoring the rumor?Do you think the Arabs or << put middle-easterner ethnicity you love the most here>> has nothing to do with it?
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Salaam Zulf,
If there are no problems I am coming back permanently. I have had it with Iran. My wife fortunately agreed to change our habitat, so I had support for my desire to move. I am going to have some problems financially due to lack of a job but at least the government of Sweden is often supportive.
I think there are no religions in traditional regards, just a lot of confusion. People take their religion as the only right one despite that most people go against God's system. As long as you serve God alone, believe in the eternal existence and live a righteous life you have no need for man-made religions.
Most rites as understood in Quran are really not rites but more to intensify consciousness of God. Most likely without a fixed location such as going to Mecca. Imagine yourself that someone became a muslim on the other side of the Earth 1000 years ago and he became very pious. Do you expect him to travel across the globe to commemorate God? Think Hajj is terribly misunderstood.
God bless you
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Persians??? Which Hadiths are you talking about?
And why you 'credited' (only) the Persian for authoring the rumor?Do you think the Arabs or << put middle-easterner ethnicity you love the most here>> has nothing to do with it?
Bukhari ? Persian
Muslim ? Persian
Tirmidhi ? Persian
Abu Dawud ? Persian
Ibn Majah ? Persian
Nasa'i ? Persian -
So how do you express your beliefs in public? How real is the dangers for you? And also how expansive is your range of friends and relatives know of your views?
No I do not show my faith, because
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_jYKWf0NN8
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VhMTTV6pbE
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1enIWU7NEGY
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0As9qwiMv3g
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYT2o4nseuYI live in that town.By watching that video, you may know what consequence if I show my true faith.
I even need strategy like Sun-TzuArt of War to reveal mine hehehe. -
Thanks everyone for replying, I'll follow on some of those comments
I prefer to talk about ideas and actions in terms of their benefit and usefulness... and NOT in terms of religion.
I like this idea, often trying to claim an ownership of something universal on behalf of religion (and nationality/culture I suppose too) only prevents others from being able to take it on board too.
Well, if you're going to make such statements, then allow me to correct you. I think that you mean Mirpuri rather than Urdu.
I'll be brutalally honest, I couldn't tell one from the other to know, but the Pakistani mosques round here always label themselves as urdu speaking, I'll dig another hole sometime but I'll leave it at that for now P
The only people that understand it somewhat are my immediate family...I prefer, however, to discuss such things with my brother and mother because I want them to "see the light", so to speak.
If you don't mind me asking, how do your immediate family see it, are they like you to them trying to convince you to 'see the light' with a mainstream version of Islam or do they accept your opinions and views are different?
So people might avoid me; and not really become inimical at least openly. In this way I am safe in my habitat.
I think I understand what you mean, do you ever though feel a sense of lonelyness or a seperation from the 'Brotherhood'/mainstream or are you content without them?
Keep well otherwise and be safe on your journey.
And to you as well.
I live in that town.By watching that video, you may know what consequence if I show my true faith.
Thanks for sharing, I know Indonesia follows a dogmatic approach to their official line, it must be tough living under those conditions, an oppression of the mind is often worse than an oppression against the body. I hope with time it gets better for you and others there.
I even need strategy like Sun-TzuArt of War to reveal mine hehehe.
A good book, everyone should have a copy P
Again, thanks everyone, appreciate all your comments.
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Salaam,
I'll be brutalally honest, I couldn't tell one from the other to know, but the Pakistani mosques round here always label themselves as urdu speaking, I'll dig another hole sometime but I'll leave it at that for now
Great, I'll lend you a shovel!
If you don't mind me asking, how do your immediate family see it, are they like you to them trying to convince you to 'see the light' with a mainstream version of Islam or do they accept your opinions and views are different?
Yes, they feel that I am confused. My brother did say to me recently, quite randomly and of his own volition, that some of the things which I say make sense. I was ecstatic to hear my brother say this as he is not someone who likes to admit that others -especially his younger sister- might be more right about something than which he is. I would have performed a series of backwards somersaults at that stage if I could. However, if I am honest, I don't think that they will ever change their viewpoints because they are far too indoctrinated with dogma and far too unwilling to look beyond themselves and to see that elusive yet dazzling light.
Salaam.
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Salaam es,
I pray that your mother and brother will eventually see the light.
God bless you
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I think I understand what you mean, do you ever though feel a sense of loneliness or a separation from the 'Brotherhood'/mainstream or are you content without them?
Since my living itself is a total and prayerfully willing separation from the mainstream of the general public in much larger sense there is loveliness instead of loneliness. It is God's Grace that I pray Him in awe how great the world would be should everyone possess it. And I do pray for the same. If everyone becomes individuals, and mindfully single, and soulfully with Allah alone, and with no association towards anyone other than Allah, then the world would be one Nation; this means each bequeathes paradise in this world itself. I hope, by saying this, I am not being mean.
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Peace be unto thee,
I have told on another thread that I had told my mom that I am no longer a Sunni. It was on one of Pazuzu's threads. My mom seems like she never pays heed on what I am saying about Sunnism. But whenever I speak out about my view on headscarf, she'd get mad as elektro .
Once upon a time, my friend and I were chatting on WhatsApp. She mentioned HADITH. I was like well buddy, don't you know that hadith is the reason of the downfall of islam?
I told her that islam of Abraham and islam of Muhammad are the same. She told me "our aqeedah must be in accordance to the four madhabs". brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall
Well I told her "Is islam of Muhammad not perfect? Why do we need the four imams? Muhammad didn't even know who they were".
Since that night, we never talked again (I am planning to create pamphlets or flyers to bring sectarian muslims to Qur'an and unite. I am still thinking what to write.
Sincerely,
Yuliana -
http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/flyers/
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Wait?
Is it forbidden?
I have read somewhere that members such as youssef4342 also has done it.
Or did I make wrong choice of words?
EDIT FORGET WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN
confused -
I hope, by saying this, I am not being mean.
Not at all, thanks for sharing, its an interesting standpoint I wouldn't normally encounter.
I am planning to create pamphlets or flyers to bring sectarian muslims to Qur'an and unite. I am still thinking what to write.
I think part of the issue is that schools of thought are seen as stone walls of the Islamic faith, people can't comprehend that it is a development of individuals personal opinions that got widespread when their students started propagating it to others. If they understood the nature of schools of thoughts, how many of the original ones died out quite early and the main modern ones are quite recently formed, they might be able to understand the difference, even if they don't change their own opinions.
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salaams Mikebloke, I am a South African Muslim from Indian Descent. Firstly, I must say, that being a follower of the 'Quran alone' teachings, our challenges(opposition) have come from only Muslims. Sadly, the greatest enemies of Muslims are other Muslims; not Christians or Jews OR HINDUS, etc. This is when it comes to expressing and practicing your belief.
From the onset, I am sure that you know by now that Muslims are heterogeneous and therefore do not share the same beliefs. For decades, it was almost forbidden for laymen to study the Quran in our environment. We were told by Clerics that it was difficult and should stay away from it, unless an AALIM was present and only under his guidance could such a "daunting' task be undertaken. In many circles, this is still the practice, such that, the only reading of the Quran that takes place is done so in Arabic without understanding, in schools, homes, Muslim Functions and other social gatherings,
including the ritual Friday sermons. Need I say More?
I was only exposed to the undertanding of the Quran in the English language in my early twenties, because of a turning point in my life at that age, I desperately needed to find God, but a God whom I could understand and this is why I was guided to a tafseer(study) class that was quietly being conducted in our area (Pretoria) at the time. Space is limited to continue here, I think? -
Guys, don't let anybody label you. That's how they marginalise you. Divide you and conquer you.
Let your arguments speak for themselves. Most importantly let your actions define you. Don't use a label as a crutch to prop up your beliefs.
You have rejected all except God, but now what??
How are you different from anybody else? What are you doing different? Do you feel stronger or weaker?
These are the questions you should be pondering .... but don't let me tell you)
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Peace Mikebloke,
You raise an interesting point. Thank you for creating this thread.
It was interesting also to read of the views shared by other forum members.
I myself am from a Sunni Muslim background, but I left that creed in 2003.
As a hot-headed teenager in 2003, I began actively dissociating myself from Sunni Islam, to the extent that if someone asked me "Are you a Muslim?" I would reply with a sharp "No."
I would give the same reply even when talking to my closest friends; most of whom are Arab Sunni Muslims.
I used to do this based purely on the fact that I would fear that they would mistake me as one of their own. As zealous a youth, I couldn't even risk such a misapprehension taking place.
As time went on, this militant frame of mind waned somewhat. And now I am more inclined to reply "Yes, I am Muslim, but...." then I will go on to explain my Quran alone position.
Ideally, I would prefer to use the word "submitter," as this is the closest English rendition of "Muslim." But even this has its own undesirable implications.
There is not a thing in existence that is excepted from classification, and human ideologies and their adherents are no exception, thus, labels are almost unavoidable.
I would advise my dear brothers and sisters to choose that "label" which makes life easier for them.
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Ha! This issue is one I have yet to work out. I usually go with one of the following depending on my audience...
"No I'm not catholic anymore, just don't believe in dating/sex before marriage"
or
"No I'm not a Christian, I do believe in God, I just don't believe that Jesus is God"
or
"I'm a muslim but I don't follow Muhammed"
or
"No I'm not Muslim, but I try to follow the Quran"
or
"I'm sort of a progressive/westernised muslim"
or
"I'm sort of a submitter, but I don't believe that Rashad Khalifa is a mesenger, I guess I'm a Quran-only-Muslim"
or
"I'm on the free-minds forum/ I'm a free-minder!"
or
"No I'm not Jewish, but I don't eat pork because I believe that God says not to"
or
"No I'm not religious but I just try to follow the scripture(s)"
or
"No I don't have a set religion, but I do try to keep the faith"
or
"I guess I'm a monotheist"
or something else that I think will enable me to continue living as I think I should without attracting too much interest or questioning
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Ha! This issue is one I have yet to work out. I usually go with one of the following depending on my audience...
"No I'm not catholic anymore, just don't believe in dating/sex before marriage"
or
"No I'm not a Christian, I do believe in God, I just don't believe that Jesus is God"
or
"I'm a muslim but I don't follow Muhammed"
or
"No I'm not Muslim, but I try to follow the Quran"
or
"I'm sort of a progressive/westernised muslim"
or
"I'm sort of a submitter, but I don't believe that Rashad Khalifa is a mesenger, I guess I'm a Quran-only-Muslim"
or
"I'm on the free-minds forum/ I'm a free-minder!"
or
"No I'm not Jewish, but I don't eat pork because I believe that God says not to"
or
"No I'm not religious but I just try to follow the scripture(s)"
or
"No I don't have a set religion, but I do try to keep the faith"
or
"I guess I'm a monotheist"
or something else that I think will enable me to continue living as I think I should without attracting too much interest or questioning
Oh, gosh!
and
ditto! ;D
P.S. Welcome to the forum!
