Do you openly address yourself as a Quran only/God Alone Muslim in public?
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Salam sisters, brothers.
I thought I'd ask this question, interested in your responses as I think its quite important in regards to self-esteem and respect how one acts both with friends (by this, I include places like this where it is openly discussed with like minded people) and outside (such as interactions with sectarian Muslims).
From what I've read during my time here, I've noticed that the topics that do involve talking about a developing Quran only/God Alone community and ideology the fear of simply creating another sect or splinter group/'religion' comes up. I think this is a valid fear, and probably the one that makes me not openly profess myself as a Quran only/God Alone even on here.
Instead, I'm just 'me' and I have my opinions; it just so happens I'm very happy to share them with others even if they don't want to hear it. I have gotten myself in some trouble and heated arguments for expressing such views to both Sunni and Shia.
I am aware though that my position is special, as a white convert in the UK, I'm usually dismissed as a bit weird and irrelevant (and often told I'm wrong), in some countries, expressing similar views is a death sentence.
So how do you express your beliefs in public? How real is the dangers for you? And also how expansive is your range of friends and relatives know of your views?
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Salaam MikeBloke, I am a white convert in USA, I have told friends that I study the Qur'an and really don't get much of a response. But I must say that I talk about Islam at opportune moments. Maybe this is kind of shy and not being boisterous but my friends really seem to listen to my point of view when I pick the right moment. I would say that maybe they are just being polite, but they are really a bunch of Arseholes so they wouldn't do that.
I also have to say "Thank Allah"!!!! If I hadn't found this site, I probably wouldn't have studied Islam or read the Qur'an every night. I don't know how the UK is, but if it's anything like the US, you get tired of dogmatic religious elders.
Any how maybe I'm rambling and not making much sense (I just got home from work)
May Allah bless mankind.
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I don't know how the UK is, but if it's anything like the US, you get tired of dogmatic religious elders.
Thankfully I don't usually have to listen to it, most don't bother to learn English and I have no interest in learning Urdu or Sylhetti; hence I don't understand anything they say.
Any how maybe I'm rambling and not making much sense (I just got home from work)
May Allah bless mankind.
No not at all! Thanks for your post.
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I'm in a phase of my life where I'm both discovering the difference between religion and reality, and trying to purify myself from my own shit. I'm getting more and more put off by religion and it's promoters. It is becoming more and more clear that the deeper you get into religion the further away you get from God, as a generalization.
I'm not calling myself anything but human being, simply because I cannot identify myself with any particular religion. I can read the quran and use arabic terminology (for my convenience) but I don't associate myself with Islam, and neither with any other religion like Christianity or Buddhism. I hate when we label each other. I find that the followers of Religion very often are unconsciously arrogant, prejudiced and sometimes racist. s a rule, they consider themselves better than others. This is ignorant arrogance.
I'm also fed up discussing religious matters with people, because in my experience it is next to useless. People have their whole identity mixed up in religion, and this will prevent them from being objective. People who say they are objective and still keep defending their own stance are just foolish and deceiving themselves.
I prefer to let people do whatever they do and call themselves whatever they wish. I can tell people what I prefer to do and why, but I won't throw some garbage sales talk about religion on them.
I prefer to talk about ideas and actions in terms of their benefit and usefulness... and NOT in terms of religion. As soon as the hash tag of religion is there, the brain shuts down its objective and logical reasoning. In the same way, I don't believe in a Quranic or quran alone society or community. I do however believe in a society where we work on implementing good, wholesome, positive, healthy and productive ways to do things... and these things can be from the quran, BUT I would not insist on them with only the reason that it is from the quran. What if we have misunderstood parts of the quran? Also, communities should be for ALL people, not just those who claim to follow the quran, so any rule and way of doing thing should be promoted on the basis and highlight of it's benefit. Those who don't count themselves as quran followers will be able to accept things that are just, fair, balanced and beneficial... but they would never accept things just because they originate from the quran. Do we want to implement something because it is written (as we interpret it) in a certain book, or because it is obvious that it is positive and beneficial guidance from the Creator? Do we want a functioning society/community or not? Isn't it better to be pragmatic than dogmatic?
I feel that even the quran alone-"movement" is still very colored by the Religion of Islam. People seem to think than Allah is closer to Islam than to other religions and people. How ignorant.
Peace all
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Thankfully I don't usually have to listen to it, most don't bother to learn English and I have no interest in learning Urdu or Sylhetti; hence I don't understand anything they say.
No not at all! Thanks for your post.
Well, if you're going to make such statements, then allow me to correct you. I think that you mean Mirpuri rather than Urdu.
I tell select people about me being "Qur'an Alone". They still don't understand that I am not a Sunni. The only people that understand it somewhat are my immediate family. In terms of discussing the Qur'an in its own right, well, that becomes difficult because I am surrounded by a lot of people who are too rigid in their beleif system to accept anything other than what they have been indoctrinated with. I prefer, however, to discuss such things with my brother and mother because I want them to "see the light", so to speak.
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Salaam Zulf,
I somewhat agree to what you are saying although I would formulate myself slightly different. You do not think religions are invented and there is no real hocus pocus but just a God and a system? The system is very easy to follow too, for the right person.
But the forum is more hostile lately, from the past 6 months compared to when I joined a while ago. We had more unity before, however some regulars left during springtime who used to help with the atmosphere here.
By the way, in a month or so I am going back to Sweden. You do not happen to be around Stockholm? Or were you from around somewhere else?
God bless you
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But the forum is more hostile lately, from the past 6 months compared to when I joined a while ago. We had more unity before, however some regulars left during springtime who used to help with the atmosphere here.
I don't think it is due to members leaving. I feel the demise of the quality of this forum of late is due to the intrusive participation of some anti-social elements.
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I somewhat agree to what you are saying although I would formulate myself slightly different. You do not think religions are invented and there is no real hocus pocus but just a God and a system? The system is very easy to follow too, for the right person.
Not sure what you're asking. I think I'm a bit dull at this hour.
I think religions are abstract entities that have come up as spin off's from cores of truth. It is the rebellious nature of the human being who has driven the religions into existence. I see it like this either you go ALONG with the system of God (truth and reality), or you OPPOSE and RESIST it to varying degrees. All of us are engaged in resistance to different extents... and this is what makes us have this experience of Earthly life (as per my current opinion).But the forum is more hostile lately, from the past 6 months compared to when I joined a while ago. We had more unity before, however some regulars left during springtime who used to help with the atmosphere here.
I've been around here for many years... and I don't think it is more hostile now. I've seen the same shit all along, from my day 1, but it goes a bit like ebb and flow, in cycles...
By the way, in a month or so I am going back to Sweden. You do not happen to be around Stockholm? Or were you from around somewhere else?
I've been based in Gothenburg all my life (when in Sweden), but now I'm based in Sm?land.
How long will you stay in Sweden?Peace!
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Peace mikebloke,
I communicate my perspective with a sense of just proportion from what I am living through between the twin of my perception and personal experience; for many it is weird talk; for some it feeds a thought. I am away from theology of Islam, Muslim; no mosque, and no Haj, no rituals of any of the groups, but a firm believer in the Unseen Need placed in my Soul, with regard to my future, by One sure Almighty, The Most Wise. I choose to communicate only that which I have experienced beyond elements of doubt, and to satisfy my soul 'I have done a good today' and it is not a deliberation for winning or making others lose an argument. I listen from others their counters if they are their original and not counterfeits. So people might avoid me; and not really become inimical at least openly. In this way I am safe in my habitat.
In Islamic forums I feel much relieved to say the word "Allah". But in public I only say as 'Superior Power' and never the word 'Allah'. To that extent Islamic groups have spoilt the name of Allah and have earned Him great disrepute and contempt.
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Peace mikebloke,
I communicate my perspective with a sense of just proportion from what I am living through between the twin of my perception and personal experience; for many it is weird talk; for some it feeds a thought. I am away from theology of Islam, Muslim; no mosque, and no Haj, no rituals of any of the groups, but a firm believer in the Unseen Need placed in my Soul, with regard to my future, by One sure Almighty, The Most Wise. I choose to communicate only that which I have experienced beyond elements of doubt, and to satisfy my soul 'I have done a good today' and it is not a deliberation for winning or losing an argument. I listen from others their counters if they are their original and not counterfeits. So people might avoid me; and not really become inimical. In this way I am safe in my habitat.
Dear Mr Fazl
But many times you have acted like a thorny fish which has left its habitat in the sea and came to peck on the posts of my threads. After appearing as a colourful rainbow of non hostility, you would turn your back and smear my habitat with your shadows.
I wish you a wonderful and safe journey.
Decoding the Puzzle
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Al- Amiyr
Many salams,This is a thread of mikebloke to who I am responding as to how I get along and coexist and communicate in public where many religious groups are living.
Here in the Islamic forum when you mention ayats, I only bring to your notice with strong commitment against your contradictory points. Definitely my intention is not to bring you into argument but only to ascertain if there appears any clarity on either side. If you look back into your threads, I would not have posted more than 8 posts all put together if I am correct. If you cannot digest even this, I am sorry.
Friendly yours.
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Salam sisters, brothers.
I thought I'd ask this question, interested in your responses as I think its quite important in regards to self-esteem and respect how one acts both with friends (by this, I include places like this where it is openly discussed with like minded people) and outside (such as interactions with sectarian Muslims).
From what I've read during my time here, I've noticed that the topics that do involve talking about a developing Quran only/God Alone community and ideology the fear of simply creating another sect or splinter group/'religion' comes up. I think this is a valid fear, and probably the one that makes me not openly profess myself as a Quran only/God Alone even on here.
Instead, I'm just 'me' and I have my opinions; it just so happens I'm very happy to share them with others even if they don't want to hear it. I have gotten myself in some trouble and heated arguments for expressing such views to both Sunni and Shia.
I am aware though that my position is special, as a white convert in the UK, I'm usually dismissed as a bit weird and irrelevant (and often told I'm wrong), in some countries, expressing similar views is a death sentence.
So how do you express your beliefs in public? How real is the dangers for you? And also how expansive is your range of friends and relatives know of your views?
+salaam Mikebloke
I hope to share this with you. Where a man stand today he might not stand tomorrow. This is called an open mind. I share with you this little what I wrote before. Keep well otherwise and be safe on your journey. One never knows at which junction one will meet.
salaam+
Up to the age of about 36 years about twelve years ago I refused to have anything to do with anything other than the qur'aan. I did not, however, deny myself the full investigation of all the other scriptures purporting to be the words of the Creator.
I gave over a thousand lectures and nearly in all of them I was asked why I did not make any reference to any 'ahaadiyth (hadiyths). My categorical replies always were, "Why must I go to other sources of information when the qur'aan was perfectly clear on the matter. And how could other sources other than the qur'aan be trusted."
I ,however, was also not so bold to declare the invalidity of statements I also did not fully understand at the time. One cannot dismiss anything without first understanding the matter. This could be a grave error. Not for true seekers in my opinion.
After many discoveries in the qur'aan which brought me into conflict with many Muslims, I was greatly surprised many years later that there were hadiyths of the prophet(S+) that exactly corresponded to my findings. I was greatly surprised at this and suddenly I found that the very hadiyths that I did not investigate before became weapons against the falsehood that has crept into the religion of islaam. I have also discovered that many of those who claim to be followers of the 'ahaadiyth are not followers at all. They use selected 'ahaadiyth to back up their ideologies and then dismiss the others.
Then about ten years ago I began a hurried study of all the books that record the 'ahaadiyth. I have now without exaggeration studied about 10 000 to 15 000. Many will be amazed at the outcome of all the information. All those whom I met and whom I made negative before now see the 'ahaadiyth in a different light. I am now also busy putting an 'ahaadiyth website together for all for a better understanding.
I will also post some threads about some of the findings inshaa ALLAAH.
+salaam
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Peace,
Just because we reject hadiths, doesn't mean that we don't or never study them. They are all Persian inventions. There were no hadith manuscripts until 13th CE.
My mom has known that I am no longer a Sunni.
Regards,
Yuliana -
Peace,
Just because we reject hadiths, doesn't mean that we don't or never study them. They are all Persian inventions. There were no hadith manuscripts until 13th CE.
My mom has known that I am no longer a Sunni.
Regards,
YulianaPersians??? Which Hadiths are you talking about?
And why you 'credited' (only) the Persian for authoring the rumor?Do you think the Arabs or << put middle-easterner ethnicity you love the most here>> has nothing to do with it?
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Salaam Zulf,
If there are no problems I am coming back permanently. I have had it with Iran. My wife fortunately agreed to change our habitat, so I had support for my desire to move. I am going to have some problems financially due to lack of a job but at least the government of Sweden is often supportive.
I think there are no religions in traditional regards, just a lot of confusion. People take their religion as the only right one despite that most people go against God's system. As long as you serve God alone, believe in the eternal existence and live a righteous life you have no need for man-made religions.
Most rites as understood in Quran are really not rites but more to intensify consciousness of God. Most likely without a fixed location such as going to Mecca. Imagine yourself that someone became a muslim on the other side of the Earth 1000 years ago and he became very pious. Do you expect him to travel across the globe to commemorate God? Think Hajj is terribly misunderstood.
God bless you
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Persians??? Which Hadiths are you talking about?
And why you 'credited' (only) the Persian for authoring the rumor?Do you think the Arabs or << put middle-easterner ethnicity you love the most here>> has nothing to do with it?
Bukhari ? Persian
Muslim ? Persian
Tirmidhi ? Persian
Abu Dawud ? Persian
Ibn Majah ? Persian
Nasa'i ? Persian -
So how do you express your beliefs in public? How real is the dangers for you? And also how expansive is your range of friends and relatives know of your views?
No I do not show my faith, because
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_jYKWf0NN8
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VhMTTV6pbE
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1enIWU7NEGY
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0As9qwiMv3g
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYT2o4nseuYI live in that town.By watching that video, you may know what consequence if I show my true faith.
I even need strategy like Sun-TzuArt of War to reveal mine hehehe. -
Thanks everyone for replying, I'll follow on some of those comments
I prefer to talk about ideas and actions in terms of their benefit and usefulness... and NOT in terms of religion.
I like this idea, often trying to claim an ownership of something universal on behalf of religion (and nationality/culture I suppose too) only prevents others from being able to take it on board too.
Well, if you're going to make such statements, then allow me to correct you. I think that you mean Mirpuri rather than Urdu.
I'll be brutalally honest, I couldn't tell one from the other to know, but the Pakistani mosques round here always label themselves as urdu speaking, I'll dig another hole sometime but I'll leave it at that for now P
The only people that understand it somewhat are my immediate family...I prefer, however, to discuss such things with my brother and mother because I want them to "see the light", so to speak.
If you don't mind me asking, how do your immediate family see it, are they like you to them trying to convince you to 'see the light' with a mainstream version of Islam or do they accept your opinions and views are different?
So people might avoid me; and not really become inimical at least openly. In this way I am safe in my habitat.
I think I understand what you mean, do you ever though feel a sense of lonelyness or a seperation from the 'Brotherhood'/mainstream or are you content without them?
Keep well otherwise and be safe on your journey.
And to you as well.
I live in that town.By watching that video, you may know what consequence if I show my true faith.
Thanks for sharing, I know Indonesia follows a dogmatic approach to their official line, it must be tough living under those conditions, an oppression of the mind is often worse than an oppression against the body. I hope with time it gets better for you and others there.
I even need strategy like Sun-TzuArt of War to reveal mine hehehe.
A good book, everyone should have a copy P
Again, thanks everyone, appreciate all your comments.
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Salaam,
I'll be brutalally honest, I couldn't tell one from the other to know, but the Pakistani mosques round here always label themselves as urdu speaking, I'll dig another hole sometime but I'll leave it at that for now
Great, I'll lend you a shovel!
If you don't mind me asking, how do your immediate family see it, are they like you to them trying to convince you to 'see the light' with a mainstream version of Islam or do they accept your opinions and views are different?
Yes, they feel that I am confused. My brother did say to me recently, quite randomly and of his own volition, that some of the things which I say make sense. I was ecstatic to hear my brother say this as he is not someone who likes to admit that others -especially his younger sister- might be more right about something than which he is. I would have performed a series of backwards somersaults at that stage if I could. However, if I am honest, I don't think that they will ever change their viewpoints because they are far too indoctrinated with dogma and far too unwilling to look beyond themselves and to see that elusive yet dazzling light.
Salaam.
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Salaam es,
I pray that your mother and brother will eventually see the light.
God bless you