Gay and Muslim?
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But here are some ayas
O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit the women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of what you have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. (19)
But if ye decide to take one zawj (member of a couple) in place of another, even if ye had given one of them a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong? (20)
And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have Taken from you a solemn covenant? (21)
So what does this "you have gone unto each other" and this "solemn covenant" (mithaqan ghalidhan)stand for?
RED is mine
Salam
This is your authority for saying "sex is marriage"? brickwall
Okay, I just don't understand how you read the Qur'an. giveup
Peace
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Salaam Yuliana,
I was talking about instinctive behavior; attraction to someone else is mostly about instincts, and this attraction can in some cases be towards the same sex in animals and is not offensive but a viable explanation which does make this behavior normalized.
God bless you
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Peace all
We have certainly created man into hardship
(904)http//i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Five-Surprising-Facts-about-Starvation-3.jpg http//news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54357000/jpg/_54357752_54357684.jpg
Indeed, your efforts are diverse
(924)Do the people think
that they will be left to say,
"We believe"
and they will not be tried?
(292-4)(refer here)
Salam
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Salaam Yuliana,
I was talking about instinctive behavior; attraction to someone else is mostly about instincts, and this attraction can in some cases be towards the same sex in animals and is not offensive but a viable explanation which does make this behavior normalized.
God bless you
The same goes with animal paedophiles and baby-eaters.
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My homosexuality is something that has often made me question if the Koran really came from God. And I still have not been able to reconcile my faith with my sexuality.
Being gay, I can tell you that it's NOT a matter of choice. But for someone who is not gay, you can never really expect that they would understand you. They simply can't. Why? Because they are not gay.
If I tell you today - start getting attracted to guys...right now...the way you get attracted to girls - will you be able to do it? I tell you to be emotionally attracted to men and not women - will you be able to do it? I show you a picture with a hot guy and a hot girl - will you be able to stop yourself from getting attracted to the hot girl....and instead get attracted to the hot guy?
And because you will not be able to do this, what if I then announce that you have a disease and that you are abnormal and against nature? How would you feel?
These are questions that many straight guys will not have the brain cells to understand or appreciate.
On one hand I feel inclined towards the Koran for multiple reasons....and then on one hand I struggle with the fact that I'm gay...and I didn't choose to be this way. So why did God make most people straight and me gay? Why are all the laws for straight couples and nothing aboout gay couples? Why? Why? Why? Is that not unfair? Isn't God supposed to be Just?
Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality.
Anyways...coming to the Koran...I'm quite confused. People from Answering Islam say that the Koran must be wrong because it says that there were no gays before Lot's people! Now how do you answer this? You may answer that it was LOT who said this and NOT God...and messengers are human beings like us so Lot did not have enough knowledge about the world and said this in error. I really don't know.
Sometimes I feel that the Koran is talking about bisexuals...as it talks about people LEAVING females and going for males...bisexuals can CHOOSE where they want to get sexual gratification from. I used to think there are no bisexuals until I met a few bisexual friends. They are INDEED attracted to both the sexes in the same way.
Yet some verses seem to clearly imply that homosexual acts are sins. Whenever the Koran talks about people of Lot, it ALWAYS mentions the sexual acts. A few other verses do mention other things..robbery etc...but sexual stuff remains the KEY sin.
And that's the reason why I do not plan to settle down with a guy. And that's also the reason why I am seeking a lesbian to get married to...a marriage of convenience...I want to fit in with the society. IF ONLY the Koran had approved of homosexuality, I would have lived my life my way and cared a fudge about what other people said. The Koran is also totally silent on lesbianism.
Some people argue that the Koran also does not mention any punishment for rape...so does that mean rapes are allowed? So how can you say the same about homosexual acts?
Have I found the answers? No I haven't. And I probably never will, until God chooses to reveal something to me, or until I'm resurrected.
God bless....
Thank you for this excellent, sincere and serious post!
It is hugely refreshing in this thread, polluted by some members who's only sport is to take ayats out of context and wave them to suit their narrow-mindedness...I admire your courage to speak openly about being gay, and you are perfectly right, others cannot understand it if they do not share the same inclination, you gave excellent examples.
I just wanted to say that the issue of homosexuality is not the only one that might make a person doubt if the Qur'an comes from God!
Perhaps the problem might reside in inadequate translations...A few days ago some women were punished in Saudi Arabia for driving a car. Does that mean that all other women in the world, who do drive cars, will go to hell?
Interpretations of the Qur'an might sometimes be utter nonsense...I would like to finish my post with this aya that made me think a lot yesterday, and I like it very much
Whatever you will is in accordance with GOD's will. GOD is Omniscient, Wise.
This aya is not so much influenced by the preceding one or the next one, so taken as it is, to me it means that we should be "straight-forwarded", "single-minded" and WHOLE in our will because we are always in accordance with God's will that is in us, since even the wishes are created by God as He created us too, and shaytan (devil) being the adversary, the opponent, is the one that makes us doubt and deviate from our own truth and our own nature in everything, not just in choices who do we love...
Peace
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Peace all
What really matters to Allah?
What is Allah like to see from us?
How a child can grow into an adult within 1 year?
How to grow into timber trees from seeds within 24 hours?
It is not the Sunnatullah and there is no target for becoming a Muslim.
Hijab is not the actual requirement in the Qur'an.
The actual requirement in the Qur'an is for human beings to learn, understand, and reform continuously for the better (istiqamah - changes from within ourselves comes first - roots of a tree).
It is the process of understanding that matter, not the end results (comparison - how can one expect to be free from shirk within a short period of time? Impossible!). Therefore it doesn't matter or less relevant to Islam if peoples wear Hijab or not, since it is not the real issue in Islam. In fact, it is the most irrelevant issue to the society (it is personal issue - 5105).
Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah
are the deaf and dumb
who do not use reason <- The importance of reason, and not becoming a robot (blind follower)
(822) (trees without roots - how long can it hold straight on the ground?)The struggling and going is the goal, and it doesn't matter where we start (or end), as long as we start somewhere and keep on improving our life and strengthening our faith.
and I suddenly remember this song, quite inspiring.. )
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.Salam handshake
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Salaam Yuliana,
If we did not have some "pre-programmed" barriers we would be pedophiles too. If we are honest, many male humans are turned on by very young females barely of breeding age, but because we have our conscience we put strains to ourselves. It is instincts which drives us to this the same as in animals which do not possess conscience as we do.
That ought to explain your question at least about pedophilia. I know it is disgusting, but it is at the same time the truth.
God bless you
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My homosexuality is something that has often made me question if the Koran really came from God. And I still have not been able to reconcile my faith with my sexuality.
Being gay, I can tell you that it's NOT a matter of choice. But for someone who is not gay, you can never really expect that they would understand you. They simply can't. Why? Because they are not gay.
If I tell you today - start getting attracted to guys...right now...the way you get attracted to girls - will you be able to do it? I tell you to be emotionally attracted to men and not women - will you be able to do it? I show you a picture with a hot guy and a hot girl - will you be able to stop yourself from getting attracted to the hot girl....and instead get attracted to the hot guy?
And because you will not be able to do this, what if I then announce that you have a disease and that you are abnormal and against nature? How would you feel?
These are questions that many straight guys will not have the brain cells to understand or appreciate.
On one hand I feel inclined towards the Koran for multiple reasons....and then on one hand I struggle with the fact that I'm gay...and I didn't choose to be this way. So why did God make most people straight and me gay? Why are all the laws for straight couples and nothing aboout gay couples? Why? Why? Why? Is that not unfair? Isn't God supposed to be Just?
Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality.
Anyways...coming to the Koran...I'm quite confused. People from Answering Islam say that the Koran must be wrong because it says that there were no gays before Lot's people! Now how do you answer this? You may answer that it was LOT who said this and NOT God...and messengers are human beings like us so Lot did not have enough knowledge about the world and said this in error. I really don't know.
Sometimes I feel that the Koran is talking about bisexuals...as it talks about people LEAVING females and going for males...bisexuals can CHOOSE where they want to get sexual gratification from. I used to think there are no bisexuals until I met a few bisexual friends. They are INDEED attracted to both the sexes in the same way.
Yet some verses seem to clearly imply that homosexual acts are sins. Whenever the Koran talks about people of Lot, it ALWAYS mentions the sexual acts. A few other verses do mention other things..robbery etc...but sexual stuff remains the KEY sin.
And that's the reason why I do not plan to settle down with a guy. And that's also the reason why I am seeking a lesbian to get married to...a marriage of convenience...I want to fit in with the society. IF ONLY the Koran had approved of homosexuality, I would have lived my life my way and cared a fudge about what other people said. The Koran is also totally silent on lesbianism.
Some people argue that the Koran also does not mention any punishment for rape...so does that mean rapes are allowed? So how can you say the same about homosexual acts?
Have I found the answers? No I haven't. And I probably never will, until God chooses to reveal something to me, or until I'm resurrected.
God bless....
I do not think homosexuality is one thing. It is like rashes on the skin. It may be a sign of something but not all the rashes are due to the same cause or a single cause. I think, I know, that there are so called homosexuals who chose to be so. Others didn't choose and may not help it. So the same as there are meny etiologies for rashes, there are many etiologies for "homosexuality". The fact that it is all bundled together as if it were the same thing does not help to give people the wisest treatment.
At any rate, sexuality, any form of it is part of the private life of people, and the private life of people is precisely that, private, and the sura an-N ur makes it abundantly clear that it is nobody's business to pry on what people do in private, because that is between them and God and the people they have intimacy with.
Lut's people were not "homosexuals", they were gangs and debauchers and agressors, and obiviously did not keep their "sexuality" private, if it was sexuality, because it looks rather that it was power-lust.
Salaam
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I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?
Salam
A "Muslim" is about "Submission", and relating to the issue of "obedience" or "disobedience" (refer here).
"Believers" is about the whole system, the Sunnatullah, and mostly is related to the issue of "justly balanced", or any part of it. The Qur'an is about human beings, about us (refer here).
Therefore, the nearest conclusion we are able to make is there will never be "Gay Muslims", but there can be "Gay Believers". So as there will be a "Prostitute Believers", a "Robber Believers", or "Believers" in Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism or any other religions (refer here). Many of them can be Believers but not Muslims (refer here). They are the reformers of just and balance, reforming themselves and others for the better (refer here).
That's why Allah makes a distinction between a "Believer" and a "True Believer" (82).
The believers
ARE ONLY
those whowhen Allah is mentioned <- traits no (1)
their hearts become fearfuland when His verses are recited to them <- traits no (2)
it increases them in faithand upon their Lord they rely <- traits no (3)
(82)
cf. 82 and 28
Equally, the difference between true believers or reformers and the munafiqoon (corruptors on earth - continuance/context on ayat 211 - unjust).
And of the people are some who say
"We believe in Allah and the Last Day,"
but they are not believers
(28)Peace
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Salaam muslims,
I think you presume too much.
God bless you
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Salam
Don't just say it, prove it.
Peace.
And We have revealed to you
the Book in truth
confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture <- refer here
and as a criterion over it
So judge between them by what Allah has revealed
and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth
To each of you
We prescribed a law and a method
Had Allah willed
He would have made you one nation
but to test you
in what He has given you
so race to good
To Allah is your return all together
and He will inform you
concerning that over which you used to differ
(54And to every nation
We appointed acts of devotion
that they may mention the name of Allah
on what He has given them of the cattle quadrupeds
so your god is One God
therefore to Him should you submit
and give good news to the humble
(2234) -
Salaam,
And exactly how does that relate to what was previously written?
God bless you
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Salam
Okay, so you don't read and only argues.
or "Believers" in Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism or any other religions (refer here). Many of them can be Believers but not Muslims (refer here). They are the reformers of just and balance, reforming themselves and others for the better (refer here).
Peace.
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Peace all
An example of believer, but not Muslim.
Listen to his answers of "I believe" or "I agree", to the repeated questions of "do you believe" ..
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZOxddqjjw
and
https//sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/Home/all-faq-s-together-in-printable-format
who is.. a gay, a gay believer.
Salam
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Salaam,
I do read, but when I see now relevance in what I read then I argue as you said.
I think you have gotten the terminology a bit twisted. A Believer is always a Muslim, but a Muslim is not necessarily a Believer. They all have a mutual interest. That is using Quran's definition and not believers of other deities or polytheism, they are not referred to as Believer as per Quran. I think you delve too deeply into your own philosophies without involving the whole concept, you need to take the whole Message into account.
And I left out the human-made concept of believer as God has a completely different perspective and it is the one I follow.
God bless you
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Salam
Seriously, you are not reading, or not what I know as "reading".
Therefore, the nearest conclusion we are able to make is
Equally, the difference between true believers or reformers and the munafiqoon (corruptors on earth - continuance/context on ayat 211 - unjust).
And of the people are some who say
"We believe in Allah and the Last Day,"
BUT they are not believers
(28)The believers
ARE ONLY
those whoPeace
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Salaam,
They say they are believers because they thought they were believers. So they are mistaken and wrong and followed conjecture and it does not mean that there is a different kind of believer. They are disbelievers or hypocrites. The Swedish has a better word for it called "skenheling" and means that you do everything that your traditional religion requires from you but you do not really live by them and you do not really believe.
They may have called themselves Muslims but they did not follow the ideal and what signifies a Muslims and they were therefore never a Muslim in God's point of view and thus they were not Believers either. Point is that these people often in their own wrongdoings believe that they are on a straight path while they are not and God does not guide them towards right. They say that they believe but in truth the lie to themselves and tell themselves that they are Muslims so much that they believe it.
One can say they are Muslims as much as they like but it is still not up to them to decide for as long as you do not live a life as one you are not a Muslim and you will definitely not become a Believer if you do not act out as one.
When you are a Believer then you will sort of feel this and you will be completely certain that God is really real and you do not have to brag about it either.
God bless you
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Salam
The word "BUT" in must mean something, and there are millions of people who "Believe" the "ideas in the Qur'an" without knowing it, and are not Muslims.
An example of believer, but not Muslim.
Listen to his answers of "I believe" or "I agree", to the repeated questions of "do you believe" ..
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZOxddqjjw
Many of them reject the Qur'an but not the ideas in the Qur'an. How can someone reject the ideas that are naturally embedded in human beings? Therefore, they are actually rejecting the religion of Islam, the same way I am rejecting the Religion of Islam, and and the same way Muhammad rejects the idea of Christianity or Judaism as a religion (Is he a disbeliever?).
Many of them lived these ideas within themselves, more than what the so-called Muslim today. Some of them are actually the Believers. Okay, we should be embarrassed, and that's the design or intention for this miserable life of the Ummah. So that we can be aware of our mistakes, reviewing our action, learn from each other and lived the "ideas in the Qur'an" within ourselves.
O you men!
surely We have created you
of a male and a female
and made you tribes
and families
that you may know each other
surely the most honorable of you with Allah
is the one among you most careful (of his duty)
surely Allah is Knowing, Aware
(4913)Further, it's not necessarily to have 100% faith to be a Believer (which is referred by Allah as a True Believer).
Do you think we have 100% faith in the Qur'an?
If so, are we able to perform all commands and prohibitions in the Qur'an?
Why not? .. What is the difference between us and them?
What makes us a better human being?
Is it merely because we have beard and know how to Salah?
That's it??
See?
There is no difference if we are a born Muslim or not, or what label we are.
Faith cannot be inherited and our "Muslim Label" is totally irrelevant to Allah.
These all are religions and sectarianism.
Man made definition.
Man made human values to divide good peoples, whatever religions they are.
and the only truth in Islam, is the Qur'an, not the Ummah (label).
Peace
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Salaam,
Muslim is the one who lives like a Muslim and it is not necessarily bound to Quran which is a guidebook. It is not a fixed label for specific people.
God bless you
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Salam
Muslim is specific and bound by the Qur'an (obedience or disobedience), Believer is general... just and balance, righteousness etc.
And whoever seeks a "dnan" (ا other than Islam
it will NEVER be accepted of him
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(<a href="http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=85">385</a>A "Muslim" is about "Submission", and relating to the issue of "obedience" or "disobedience" (refer here).
"Believers" is about the whole system, the Sunnatullah, and mostly is related to the issue of "justly balanced", or any part of it. The Qur'an is about human beings, about us (refer here).
or in analogy, Believer is Faith (Iman), and Muslim is Action (Amal).
and..
Therefore, the nearest conclusion we are able to make is there will never be "Gay Muslims", but there can be "Gay Believers"
and do not argue with the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)
except in a way that is best
except for those who commit injustice among them, and say
"We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you (Torah and Bible)
And our God and your God is one
and we are Muslims to Him
(Quran 2946)Muslim believe in their Books = Believer and Muslim
They believe in their Books = Believer, but not Muslim (Islam)If they are "SINCERE" to One God and the truth without any regards to sectarianism, if they are good peoples, not arrogant to the truth, and becoming True Believers of just and balance, then Allah will surely guide them to Islam (Muslim). They will end as a True Muslim. This situation is equally the same with Islam, since many are still not a True Muslim! nope
Peace