Gay and Muslim?
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Salaam,
All that I said is Knowledge contained in Qur'an and I spoke the Message using God's pen which never runs dry. You parrot ayats from the Quran which does not counter my arguments but rather simply confirms what I said, so I am not sure where you are aiming?
As we Swedes say "I think you are out bicycling".
God bless you
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Anyway, since when did God forbid as from having opinions as long as we follow His main criteria? When? When? It smells conjecture and military style god.
We follow a sectarian path where opinions are not allowed.
All that I said is Knowledge contain in Qur'an and I spoke the Message using God's pen which never runs dry.
RED is mine
Salam
See how you contradict your own statements, every time!
Do you read your own writing? yes
Peace peace
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Salaam,
Yes, I know what I write, but it seems you cannot interpret English. How does those two quotations contradict each other? They mean exactly the same practically.
God bless you
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Salaam,
Yes I feel pretty comfortable about who I am. Do you?
God bless you
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Salaam,
I have asked several times what kind of evidence you have from God that gays are not Muslims and you have only come up with ad hominem so far and accused me of the same.
And so I will ask another question about the Message; do you not believe that good behavior is the most important parameter in faith other than belief in God and His realm?
It is a very important aspect of your true misunderstanding of the whole point and I feel sorry for you if you do not agree with the above question.
And please do not evade my questions with other nonsense like posting ayats which only agree with my writings or saying that writings contradict each other while they are just heavy paraphrases with another point of view.
And where did you get Mr. Bukhari from now?
God bless you
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I have asked several times what kind of evidence you have from God that gays are not Muslims and you have only come up with ad hominem so far and accused me of the same.
Salam
Really?
Okay, so you don't read and only argues.
refer here...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340460#msg340460
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340385#msg340385
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340409#msg340409
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340409#msg340409
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340242#msg340242
OR maybe because of...
And you cannot guide the blind away from their error
You will only make hear
those who believe in Our verses
so they are Muslims
(3053)Secondly,
And so I will ask another question about the Message; do you not believe that good behavior is the most important parameter in faith other than belief in God and His realm?
REFER HERE
It always require both
iman and amal
faith (creed or decisive belief) and action (behaviour)to make someone muslim or non-muslim.
That's why the words "believed and done righteous deeds" is always put together in the Qur'an (REFER HERE)
Question/Issue of this thread
I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?
Conclusion
being a gay and with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslim (refer here)
but being a gay with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a gay and disobey Allah is a non-muslim (refer here)Reasons
Those who believe
and do righteous good deedsthere is no sin on them
for what they ateif they fear Allah
and believe
and do righteous good deedsand again
fear Allah
and believeand once again
fear Allah
and do good deedswith Ihsan (perfection)
And Allah loves the good-doers
(593)Except for those who repent
correct themselves
hold fast to Allah
and are sincere in their deen for Allah <- requires understanding
for those will be with the believers
And Allah is going to give the believers a great reward
(4146)There is not upon the weak
or upon the ill
or upon those who do not find anything to spend any discomfort
when they are sincere
to Allah and His Messenger
There is not upon the doers of good any cause
And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful
(991)And cause not corruption upon the earth
after its reformation
And invoke Him in fear and aspiration
Indeed, the mercy of Allah
is near to the doers of good
(756)Indeed, Allah does not allow to be lost the reward
of the doers of good
(9120)and there are various "degrees for the doers of good", each action are independent and depends on the particular situation, and known only by that person (gay).
That's why...
similarly
being a prostitute with with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslima
but being a prostitute with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a prostitute and disobey Allah is a non-muslimaTherefore...
How hard for you to show one ayat to prove a Muslim can I'TIQAD NOT TO "surrenders and submits to the laws of God", and still be a Muslim?
Call anyone you like, just show me one ayat from the Qur'an.
Definition of Creed or I'tiqad
Example
REFER HERE
Peace
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Salaam,
Oh sorry, you wanted to use those posts to prove that gays are not Muslims? I did not even consider that since they are completely NOT proving anything at all of what you say. What in Quran's guidelines shows that a gay is not mindful of God and the system when he is a righteous person, i.e. a Muslim? You are a Muslim when you try to follow God's guidelines no matter of personal success level and sins and has nothing to do with being eligible for Heaven or Hell. God is recording bad and good deeds and the good ones weigh heavier than the bad ones.
Believer is only an extension to the Muslim concept where you do not only heed the creed and are also certain about God in your heart. If Qur'an addresses Believers it either addresses those who are Believers, want to be Believers or feel hit by the address.
We proved that homosexuality is against God's (anatomical) design but it is not unnatural as the phenomenon simply exists and that not only in humans.
If you live by the system by saving resources and minding the cycle of nature, are your good self and believe in God why are you not following the three main criteria in God's creed?
Can you think instead of these homosexuals and how they feel inside and I am sure that many of them feel it could be regarded against God's design, but they simply cannot help their different attraction?
Many homosexuals have tried to "convert" their sexual preference and failed due to that they cannot reprogram themselves to these innate feelings. If they have striven hard to do what they can about their personal condition and follow the rest of the Message will you call them non-Muslims? They abide to the system.
With your logic, if you fail on a certain part of God's creed then I can call you 'muslims' a non-Muslim, how does that feel brother?
We are certainly not perfect none of us and we sin but we repent and regret. Some things we work hard to stop doing and some we manage to stop doing and other things we can never manage to stop sinning about. Do you not see that if we followed your concept then none of us would be Muslims? Not a single one of us would be Muslims, or do you claim that you are free from sin?
Following God's system is abiding by His Message and being mindful of Him, His realm and leading a righteous life by most importantly being a goodly person. Have you missed the good example of the Messengers?
How about the other question I asked in the previous post, even if it is slightly off-topic, what is your answer there because it seems very important to your misinterpretation of God's creed.
Like I said; you make the same mistake as Jesus' contemporaries who could only parrot the Message but could not act out on its contents and could not understand a thing of the depth of the Message. I wish to help you, but you need to stop this attitude.
God bless you
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Salaam,
One more thing, the term Muslim is for the behavior and not a specific category. You can say it is a buff you get for a certain behavior. Muslim behavior makes you a Muslim.
Arguing with you here for good or bad is perhaps not the most righteous thing I can do or maybe it is? Well, I try to behave and help you and I go out and help others in the street so then I am a Muslim.
Bookish maybe sends money to charity, helps the weak old woman across the street, plays games with his brothers, talk about God with friends and other righteous things. And then after that all is blotted out because he is a gay? All the good thing he has done is completely worthless because he is a gay and thus a non-Muslim despite that Qur'an clearly talks about what a Muslim is.
And after that you say that behavior is not the most important parameter of God's creed?
God bless you
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Salaam brother,
I read what you wrote and I said why it is not correct, but do you care to read yourself? My wife left because she has her own problems and it has nothing to do with this.
Yes, we are here to argue are we not as long as what we write is constructive and not simply loose accusations and it is a bonus if we have something to show others. It proved you, I overwhelmed you with hints to why your logic is flawed, and that by using God's creation as a testimony.
You say I argue, but look at yourself, are you not arguing and that with parroting ayats from the Qur'an that are completely irrelevant to this question.
Salam
I give up, no wonder your wife left you. You only argues and don't even read what people or you, yourselves are saying. giveup
Peace peace
God bless you
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I read what you wrote and I said why it is not correct, but do you care to read yourself?
Salam
Then do you understand the following statement?
Conclusion
being a gay and with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslim (refer here)
but being a gay with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a gay and disobey Allah is a non-muslim (refer here)Peace
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Salam
and..
Do you understand the following statement?
It always require both
iman and amal
faith (creed or decisive belief) and action (behaviour)to make someone muslim or non-muslim.
Can you differentiate between being attracted (faith) to the same sex, and committing sex (action)?
If it is just simply being attracted and without any action against the Qur'an... no problem.
It always requires both.
Can you be sentenced to death just because you want to kill so and so?
However the issue of this thread is about to remains as gay, and at the same time being a Muslim.
I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?
This requires identification of "i'qtiqad" (creed), whether "to remain" or "to reform".
Peace
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It always require both
iman and amal
faith (creed or decisive belief) and action (behaviour)to make someone muslim or non-muslim.
That's why the words "believed and done righteous deeds" is always put together in the Qur'an (REFER HERE)
It is so fantastic that you just reformulate my words and say exactly the same thing as me as if I was completely lost in my reasoning.
Faith in God, well faith in God, well it is a very simple thing if you just seek God's Nearness and Guidance through righteous deeds and devotion. You will not have Faith in God without showing it because otherwise God will make you blind to the Truth and you will end up on the Last Day as the people who say that "but we believe" and they only imagined that they believed.
Play with Arabic words as much you want because it is not necessary at all, I explained the Message without involving any Arabic at all, because the Message is not bound to any book at all.
Most of the time we only write confirmations of what we said back with the impression that the other one is wrong. And we are completely off-topic as I still want proof of why a gay individual is not a Muslim despite my logical arguments. What proof do you have that a gay is not showing his belief in God?
Salam
Then do you understand the following statement?
Peace
I understand what you wrote but that depends on if the individual can actually do anything about his condition and if he cannot then this is just putting psychological pressure on him, so your statement can only be true if certain criteria is met. So there might not be anything this individual can reform from as this condition is innate thus rendering it irrelevant to his service of God.
And even if this person is sinning this way but doing wonderful things for others and is pious in his belief to God then which will weigh the heaviest? YES, the good things he had done will weigh heavier and this person will move on with a smile on his face on the Judgment Day.
I think you misunderstand what makes a person a Muslim or not. Like I echo to you now from my previous post is most likely no one, absolutely NO ONE, would be a Muslim if we use your logic since who is without sin?
Have you been perfect in your service to God and have you never been able to make a more righteous decision? Have you never been selfish?
What is unforgivable however is idolatry or shirk guarding ones own ego as idol or any other person or entity. There you have the unforgivable offense. But despite it being unforgivable it is pretty conditional since we always risk revering our ego by mistake so what we can do is doing out utmost to prevent it. You know all the negative traits of humans and that is your shirk on one level. But this behavior can vary in degree and we may have this defect and still be Muslims.
God bless you
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Salaam,
Now I am going to be selfish, I am tired of discussing with you and throw in the towel, but I do by no means admit you were right but rather that we are only going around in circles getting nowhere and it might annoy the other participants of this forum, and I feel there are more important things to do. If you read my posts with a more open heart you will see my point and that I knew what you were talking about.
God bless you
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Salam
It is so fantastic that you just reformulate my words and say exactly the same thing as me as if I was completely lost in my reasoning.
I'm reformulating you words?
Do you remember how many times I asked whether you "READ"?
Please also REFER HERE, way before we are discussing this topic.
Secondly,
Most of the time we only write confirmations of what we said back with the impression that the other one is wrong. And we are completely off-topic as I still want proof of why a gay individual is not a Muslim despite my logical arguments. What proof do you have that a gay is not showing his belief in God?
That's why I repeatedly asked "Do you read"? yes
Okay, so you don't read and only argues.
and you called me a "rebel" etc for nothing.. not a problem. peace
Thirdly,
I understand what you wrote but that depends on if the individual can actually do anything about his condition and if he cannot then this is just putting psychological pressure on him, so your statement can only be true if certain criteria is met. So there might not be anything this individual can reform from as this condition is innate thus rendering it irrelevant to his service of God.
Same, I've said it...
and there are various "degrees for the doers of good", each action are independent and depends on the particular situation, and known only by that person (gay).
Fourthly
I think you misunderstand what makes a person a Muslim or not. Like I echo to you now from my previous post is most likely no one, absolutely NO ONE, would be a Muslim if we use your logic since who is without sin?
Have you been perfect in your service to God and have you never been able to make a more righteous decision? Have you never been selfish?
Is that a problem with the facts from the Qur'an that the majority will be in the hell fire?
and.. there is no misunderstanding from the Qur'an.
I'm very sure on the following issue, crystal clear!
How hard for you to show one ayat to prove a Muslim can I'TIQAD NOT TO "surrenders and submits to the laws of God", and still be a Muslim?
Call anyone you like, just show me one ayat from the Qur'an.
You can also call 8 billion peoples, or even Muhammad to show me such an ayat, if you can.
Further, I'm not talking about specific people
I'm talking about the rules in the Qur'an.
Therefore there is no issue relating to "who is perfect" (refer here), and neither there is need to distort the words of Allah to fit human conditions.
Lastly,
but I do by no means admit you were right but rather that we are only going around in circles getting nowhere and it might annoy the other participants of this forum, and I feel there are more important things to do. If you read my posts with a more open heart you will see my point and that I knew what you were talking about
I don't bother to be right for no reason, my real concern what is the rules in the Qur'an.
What is just and unjust.
If you wish, I acknowledge that you are right and I am wrong, doesn't matter to me (refer here).
What matter is we discuss and give reasons from the Qur'an.
And in anything over which you disagree
its ruling is to Allah <- Qur'an, not even Muhammad, ulama, scientist, majority, opinions etc.
, "That is Allah , my Lord; upon Him I have relied, and to Him I turn back."
(4210)Peace peace
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Salaam,
You are incredible Mr. muslims. You have all the answers and you keep asking questions. Give it some thought. You have enough input from me.
God bless you
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Assalamu-alaykum.
Being GAY is completely against basic Islamic principles. You can comfort yourselves with your apologetic views but Islamically this is incorrect. Homosexuality is against the nature of mankind. Period. Please try to understand this. Also I have studied the various sciences of Islam including the Qur'an and I can confirm that the root reason of why the nation of Lut Alayhis-Salaam were destroyed was homosexuality. Peace and love to all. No offence intended.
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Salaam,
Yet it happens and people cannot understand why. Why does it happen to people by nature if it is sinful? Then you would make God a sinner too for creating homosexual people.
Lut's people did more than only homosexual acts but rape etc.
God bless you