Gay and Muslim?
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Peace,
And we ought not to throw stones in glass houses here.
God bless you
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Peace,
What is it you want to prove? That I fear for you that you will end up in Hell. Well I do and it is because I usually care for all people even if they trespass the limitations.
Anyway, enough personal quarrel in here. I will ignore you since you are out to hurt me, intentionally or unintentionally.
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What's actually going on here in this thread is a very common case of human Ego. We all have it and it is giving us all trouble... it's just that we tend to not know it. One way the Ego works is that it forces us to react, react and react, emotionally... it's basically a defense mechanism of the mind. Our challenge is to take control back from our own mind/Ego. It can be done to great extents, but it requires deliberate work... but not antagonistic strife. There are meditations/ways to let us obtain peaceful freedom from the reign of our mind... while keeping the mind as the great tool it is...
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Salaam,
You are so right, Zulf.
God bless you
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What's actually going on here in this thread is a very common case of human Ego. We all have it and it is giving us all trouble... it's just that we tend to not know it. One way the Ego works is that it forces us to react, react and react, emotionally... it's basically a defense mechanism of the mind.
Our challenge is to take control back from our own mind/Ego. It can be done to great extents, but it requires deliberate work... but not antagonistic strife.
There are meditations/ways to let us obtain peaceful freedom from the reign of our mind... while keeping the mind as the great tool it is...
Peace Zulf
5810
Lo! Conspiracy is only of the devil, that he may vex those who believe;
but he can harm them not at all unless by Allah's leave.
In Allah let believers put their trust.
Let our Free-Minds surrender absolute to the Soul adhering to the words of the Lord of
the worlds Allah before it becomes Freaky-Minds
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as proved by higher numbers of gay men passing on HIV. Its higher than that for straight people.
It is only in Western countries that HIV transmission is higher for gay people than straight. In sub Saharan Africa nearly 30 million are HIV positive and as many as 2 million people die a year as a result of severely weakened immune systems. The majority are heterosexual not homosexual. In the last 10 years the majority of new HIV patients world wide have been heterosexual not homosexual. Women also contract HIV so it is not necessarily from male to male sex.
Because the are less gays so less gays produce HIV.
Yes, the reason is lack of immunity so that is to be blamed for HIV.
But it still doesn't change the fact that anal sex is easy to cause HIV. -
Man of Faith and all that are angry with muslims?
Why are you guys angry with him?
Because he cited verses that God frowns upon male approaching their males (I think the word approaching refers to sex right)?
Why?
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Salaam,
Not so much about any argument at all but more the arrogance and sarcasm, and the continued work to make fun of someone despite having stopped. I could not care more about the topic which I already answered about, after that I just had to deal with personal insults.
Anyway I do no longer discuss anything with him.
God bless you
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Man of Faith and all that are angry with muslims?
Why are you guys angry with him?
Because he cited verses that God frowns upon male approaching their males (I think the word approaching refers to sex right)?
Why?
For the sake of faithfulness and truth, it is not God who says anything about the males approaching the males, but His prophet Lut in the circumstance in which his people attempted to rape his male guests. This is what the Qur'an narrates. They attempted to rape Lut's guests and Lut defended his guests with that speech and pointed to his daughters instead, and apparently for the moment he succeeded, since the guests were not raped and his daughters did not interest the rapers. Lut spoke and Lut was in his circumstance.
Salaam
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It's better to avoid anykind of personal problems between members in this forum.
We don't know each other in here.If want some personal relation just do it by PM.
Salaam
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For the sake of faithfulness and truth, it is not God who says anything about the males approaching the males, but His prophet Lut in the circumstance in which his people attempted to rape his male guests. This is what the Qur'an narrates. They attempted to rape Lut's guests and Lut defended his guests with that speech and pointed to his daughters instead, and apparently for the moment he succeeded, since the guests were not raped and his daughters did not interest the rapers. Lut spoke and Lut was in his circumstance.
Salaam
You are missing the point here. Do you really believe that in Lut's times, homosexuality would have been allowed? Was homosexuality ever allowed in Abrahamic times or times of past prophets?? Quran doesn't need to make a clear warning forbidding homosexuality. It was never allowed or accepted in monotheists teachings. Make reference to old testament and it clearly slams homosexuality as an abomination. Old testament pre dates Quran. Islam, or submission to one God did not begin with the Quran. You need to look at the context in which homosexuality falls within. It was not written back in to Quran to be acceptable, but it was clearly prohibited before Quran was revealed.
Many claim here that the correct way is to follow the way of Abraham as also the Quran instructs, well in that case, rullings on homosexuality are clear as day, and past verses on this matter are relevant. Or do you believe like the sectarians believe that Islam started with the prophet Muhammed? or with the Quran? Islam/submission started before. Any practice that is consistent with these teachings still remain, prohibition of pork etc.
Homosexuality is most definitely not acceptable for muslims, gay sex, same sex marriage is not acceptable in Islam.
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Salaam,
We need to be careful advocating the Old Testament as it is filled with problems and it also advocates circumcision which there is no mention of in Qur'an. However, I think circumcision is a very old mistake of misinterpreting phrases and that it meant something else.
Anyway, homosexuality is not exactly a norm and is against God's design. Still you need to respect these people as Muslims.
God bless you
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You are missing the point here. Do you really believe that in Lut's times, homosexuality would have been allowed? Was homosexuality ever allowed in Abrahamic times or times of past prophets?? Quran doesn't need to make a clear warning forbidding homosexuality. It was never allowed or accepted in monotheists teachings. Make reference to old testament and it clearly slams homosexuality as an abomination. Old testament pre dates Quran. Islam, or submission to one God did not begin with the Quran. You need to look at the context in which homosexuality falls within. It was not written back in to Quran to be acceptable, but it was clearly prohibited before Quran was revealed.
Many claim here that the correct way is to follow the way of Abraham as also the Quran instructs, well in that case, rullings on homosexuality are clear as day, and past verses on this matter are relevant. Or do you believe like the sectarians believe that Islam started with the prophet Muhammed? or with the Quran? Islam/submission started before. Any practice that is consistent with these teachings still remain, prohibition of pork etc.
Homosexuality is most definitely not acceptable for muslims, gay sex, same sex marriage is not acceptable in Islam.
The ayas abour Lut quote Lut's words and describe the circumstances in which they were uttered. It is not what I think or what anybody thinks. It is what is there. Anything anybody may derive fromt it will be something which may be right or not, but which is not in the Qur'an. So it would be fraudulent to present it as such. Lut was not preaching at a peaceful gathering. He was in a dire situation where his guests were in danger of being raped and he was not addressing a community of believers but a gang of enemies of belief.
I am always surprised that out of this ayas regarding Lut's people so much stock is taken, even of the punishment of zina, but that in spite that they are much harsher and condemning and damning and they are God's words, not even any prophet's people flaunt them openly and pound on women at mere suspicion, like calling them feminists insultingly.
I am talking about ayas 9 to 28. But no pleasure like the pleasure to pound on women and attempting to control them and overpower them. The boysclub is not God's club. So let the men who feel tempted to straighten women out take care of themselves and their fellowmales, they are badly in need of it and let women rest a while.
As to "gays" and not "gays" that is de purely artifical division of people. And i am sure that if the compulsion to control and overpowering women was not so rampant, neither would have been rampant the raping rage of the people of Lut. Masculine sex is too many times a matter of power raw satanic power, with males or with females, that is the problem, and that is why we have come where we are, where a male can be a perfectly acceptable citizen going from prostitues to wives with no qualm and nothing happens, but ?oh! women must be controlled, not to avoid that there are prostitus, but to avoid that a male, by bad chance woult happen to "marry" a "used" woman instead of an "unused" one.
That is all there is to Lut's people, they took power-sex a step further on the road. Nothing new. Not everybody trembles when that is done to women.
Salaam
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Salaam,
We need to be careful advocating the Old Testament as it is filled with problems and it also advocates circumcision which there is no mention of in Qur'an. However, I think circumcision is a very old mistake of misinterpreting phrases and that it meant something else.
Anyway, homosexuality is not exactly a norm and is against God's design. Still you need to respect these people as Muslims.
God bless you
But the Quran would seek to clarify then if homosexuality mentioned in the old testament was not an abomination, then it would tell us so. The fact that it does not, surely it's clear then that the prohibition stands? Like for example the Quran tells us of the incorrect practices of people who attribute others to being god, or god having partners etc. I am sure something big like homosexuality would not have become acceptable if it was forbidden in the past for monotheists? Besides it is a practise that was big among the pagan Romans, They engaged in homosexuality en masses, they clearly didn't care, they even had sexual relations with their relatives. It is the practice of the non believer. I'm pretty sure the rulings came through Jesus and before him, in light of such deviations and mal practices.
So the Quran reiterates what is the correct and normal position with regards to sexual partners and marriage and it is always referenced as man and woman, that is clear and that is enough. It is not without historical context either and previous verses although some are incorrect, I think with regards to homosexuality, the verses from old testament are valid. I may not be completely right but at least from what i can deduce from looking at the context, I think there is something to that.
Of course I would not advocate killing, hurting, harming homosexuals. Their affairs are with God, just like everyone else. So before we can take the higher ground we need to be free of sin ourselves, who can actually say that they are? So though I believe homosexuality is wrong, God is the judge and will have the final say, so there is no point making life difficult for anyone. best we focus on improving ourselves and doing the best we can.
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For the sake of faithfulness and truth, it is not God who says anything about the males approaching the males, but His prophet Lut in the circumstance in which his people attempted to rape his male guests. This is what the Qur'an narrates. They attempted to rape Lut's guests and Lut defended his guests with that speech and pointed to his daughters instead, and apparently for the moment he succeeded, since the guests were not raped and his daughters did not interest the rapers. Lut spoke and Lut was in his circumstance.
Salaam
Exactly! But people do not read the Qur'an attentively, and they want to put words in "God's mouth" so-to-speak, just to justify their agendas whatever they might be..
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Salaam,
We need to be careful advocating the Old Testament as it is filled with problems and it also advocates circumcision which there is no mention of in Qur'an. However, I think circumcision is a very old mistake of misinterpreting phrases and that it meant something else.
Anyway, homosexuality is not exactly a norm and is against God's design. Still you need to respect these people as Muslims.
God bless you
There is not only this, but also the fact that the Qur'an says that it is fully detailed and enough for a believer.
Start bringing in other scriptures to supplement/complement/supplant the Deen, and there are contradictions. Do you stone an adulterer or lash them? Is shellfish an abomination?
Man of Faith, this is not targeted at you; is the Qur'an enough for a believer or is it not? hmm
2951 Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Book that is being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.
6836 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
6837 Or do you have a book which you study?
6838 In it, you can find what you wish?May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Salam
I'm still waiting... confused
Question
Whether "homosexuals" must guard their "private parts" EXCEPT to "wives" (women/marriage)?
(click here to read full facts, and here)
(punishment, and here)
and please, no "straw person" or straw discussion!. No one can benefit from straw discussion.
Peace all
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Salam
I'm still waiting... confused
(click here to read full facts, and here)
(punishment, and here)
and please, no "straw person" or straw discussion!. No one can benefit from this.
Peace all
You are going to be waiting a long time. This question was already addressed.
6143 Eight in from the lambs two, and from the goats two. Say "Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the wombs of the two females bore? Inform me if you are truthful!"
235 And they keep covered their private parts.
236 Except around their , or those who are maintained by their oaths, they are free from blame.
237 But whoever seeks anything beyond this, then these are the transgressors.7029 And those who keep covered their private parts.
7030 Except around their or those maintained by their oaths, there is no blame.
7031 Whoever seeks anything beyond this, they are the transgressors.788 And We created you in ?
The question is only relevant if it is valid. The question isn't valid, because the word "wives" isn't the proper word. "Mates" or "pairs" are more proper words. If the question were reworded to say "Do all people have to be chaste except to their mate/pair?", then the answer would be yes.
Taken further, why limit the question to male homosexuals...after all, it applies to both men and women regardless of sexual orientation...AND there are female homosexuals. So then, does a woman have to guard her private parts except to her wife? ;D Try some of your own medicine for a change.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi