New Article: what is 'al HaJJ' according to The Quran?
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Hi,
I have briefly read the threads which say the pilgrimage place is not Mecca it is Jerusalem.
To save me having to comb through all of the threads can anyone tell me if they too currently hold this view?
I am wondering because I have already been on a kind of pilgrimage to Jerusalem (serious - I went on a school trip in 1999) and visited all the jewish/christian sites (although I can't remember if we went to that golden dome mosque place or if that is even significant). Does this mean I have fufilled the pilgrimage commandment?
Or does it not apply to me anyway?
Thanks.
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Peace Jane,
I consider it to not be any pilgrimage at all but the related verses speak of joining and accepting God and the guidance.
But you can always have faith in whatever you like.
God bless you
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From Quran, it is clear "al hajj" is an event of some sort, involving various regulations and activities. We also know that Abraham and Moses were living in a time wherein "al hajj" was taking place, in their respective localities.
It is very likely that there was NOT only one "al hajj" that existed, and what I mean by that is that in the entire Arabia/continent (or perhaps world) it is unlikely only one "al hajj" for all people of the world existed. More likely, several "al hajj" existed, in various localities, of various peoples. With various differences for each.If we accept the above, then it seems logical to distinguish one "hajj" from another. In my view, that is what Quran is doing when it uses the phrase "...so whoever did HJJ (at/of) the House or enlivened/visited..." in 2158.
If we take it to mean "did HJJ (of) the house" it is referring to the house of God, an institution/system. This can be seen when Quran uses "people of the house" - clearly not referring to one physical house building, but a people living under God's roof, so to speak, His system, His deen/obligation etc.
For example, if a HJJ existed setup by a people and let's say it was known for commemorating yellow stone idols, it may have been termed by the people of the region/surround as "hajj (of) the yellow gods" or whatever.If we take it to mean "did HJJ (at) the house", which is also possible, "the house" will refer to the area wherein this event is taking place (where the various regulations are in force, where the people meet-up etc). This physical space in Quran is termed "al bayt al haram" / "the inviolable house". Simply shortened to "al bayt" here, which is more apt.
Both of the above options have similar connotations, and whichever is chosen, doesn't really affect the message/application, or at least not that I can see.
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Hi,
I have briefly read the threads which say the pilgrimage place is not Mecca it is Jerusalem.
To save me having to comb through all of the threads can anyone tell me if they too currently hold this view?
I am wondering because I have already been on a kind of pilgrimage to Jerusalem (serious - I went on a school trip in 1999) and visited all the jewish/christian sites (although I can't remember if we went to that golden dome mosque place or if that is even significant). Does this mean I have fufilled the pilgrimage commandment?
Or does it not apply to me anyway?
Thanks.
Jane I believe you can answer that question yourself, were you consciously on that trip for hajj?
Secondly if you want to know if you've fulfilled it you won't find your answer here on this forum.
Study the Quran thoroughly for all the topics related to hajj and more, and pray humbly,
Allah is near the supplicant when he prays -
Here are some additional notes, from a discussion I had with another:
Quran doesn't tell us to face al kaabah
Those prior to Abraham faced any direction, so did Abraham 6:79 - but apparently things changed.
Moses/Jesus didn't face al kaabah
Btw, we know for a fact Moses and his people didn't (see 10:87).So, the only logical option left for your position is to say, despite the above (unexplainable?) info, we are instructed to follow the millat of Abraham so that means following his alleged qiblah, but the "change of qiblah" verses conflict with this position:
Just before introducing the "change of qiblah" Quran clearly states:2:140 Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs were all Jewish or Nazarene? Say: "Are you more knowledgeable or is God?" Who is more wicked than one who conceals a testimony with him from God? God is not unaware of what you do.
2:141 That is a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did.But we are being told to do what they did... allegedly. It gets worse:
2:142 The foolish from the people will say: "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on it?"...
How can this possibly be foolish when according to your understanding only Abraham(+his people) had this alleged qiblah, EVERYONE else seems to have had none or another, so far from being a foolish question, seems a logical question to ask.
The verses go on to cause problems for the common understanding, as detailed here:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.htmlInterestingly, all Quranic evidence afaik is against a specific special direction (2:115, 2:142, 2:177, 2:239, 10:87). Explicitly so in fact.
"raised the foundation min/from the bayt" means "raised the foundation from a part of the bayt". ?
Foundation means the most basic or beginning part, what the rest stands on. So in Quran can bayt refer to an unbuilt bare plot or a basic structure such that one cannot even describe as having a foundation? Cite the verse please.
If you struggle, I guess you can cite a Classical Arabic dictionary reference.You take turn+wajh in 6:79 as non-physical and turn+wajh in "change of qiblah" verses as physical. Inconsistent.
And you never answered = is 6:79 exemplar of Abraham null and void now (since we have a cuboid kaabah to face)? Has 6:79 been abrogated?You said kaabah is still guidance and securing even when its demolished and flooded. And people in the vicinity murdered. Perhaps you can provide your criteria for how its securing, and how one can enter it when demolished/flooded/bloodshed.
for violation, the hady reach al kaabah [5:95]
do hajj/umrah but if prevented give hady, enjoyed give hady, reaches its lawful place [2:196]
lawful place is "al bayt al atiq" [22:33]
Since you take al kaabah as "al bayt al haram", and therefore also "al bayt al atiq" [see 22:29]
That means all the hady above will be going to al kaabah for slaughter and distribution.So let me ask again, is your position circuiting of kaabah should be going on AS WELL AS slaughtering thousands of animals and distributing their meat at kaabah?
Yes/NoAs admitted the kiswah mentions prophet's name AND there is the black stone. If you've ever been there you will know there is practices/responses going on that cant be described any other way than idolatry. Many seem to love that black stone. Clamber to touch it and kaabah etc.
I know from past comments many here (all?) do not include prophets name in salat because you say it contradicts Quran. Remembrance, salat is for God alone.
Thus using the same logic, inclusion of kiswah and black stone contradicts the verses in Q15, thus al kaabah in Makkah seems to fail the criteria by your own standard. Also see 22:30-31Hence why you imply it needs purified (like Abraham's dua). You also seemed to claim the original purpose or intent of God is what counts thus its ok to partake!
By that logic, if cuboid kaabah was full of many idols, decorated with even more etc its all good we can still partake?
If Jesus' pure message is mixed with trinitarian beliefs, its all good, we can partake?
If islam is quran mixed with hadith, its all good, we can still partake?Now, with regard to it being an area. There is actually lots of evidence. Arabic speakers will likely know "bayt" is commonly used for a town/place for example. See here for discussion:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlAnd as always, may God guide us all and bless us and increase our knowledge.
