WHO IS IN CONTROL?
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G'day )
The way I see it we have both free will and destiny. I do not believe our actions are predestined but the circumstances we find ourselves in are.
For example;
You are walking down the street and find a wallet. This is predestined for you.
What you do with the wallet is freewill.
God may know the consequences of each path you may take, in this example the obvious options are to leave the wallet where you found it, take the wallet for yourself or try to return it to its owner. While He may know what will happen if you take it for yourself or if you leave it or if you return it, He will not know which path you will take.
Since the future is only a possible existence and doesn't exist until it becomes the present, this is not a limit on His omniscience.
I think the reason why nothing we do can affect Gods plan is because His plan is perfect, it is all encompassing. Sort of like rain drops on a window, all the drops take their own path downwards but they are all heading towards the same place.
If I am destined for hell due to my actions throughout my life and God knew every action I was going to make, then by allowing me to exist He has condemned me to hell. The only way I could avoid hell is if I were to prove God wrong, by performing actions outside those which would lead me to hell. An impossible task.
Also the Koran states that we are tested so that God may know us. If God already knows us then the test is pointless. If the answers we are going to give a predetermined then the test is again pointless.
I think the confusion only happens because people consider the future as actually existing like the present.
all the best.
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Sure, sorry I should of done that from the start.
3142 - Or deemed ye that ye would enter paradise while yet Allah knoweth not those of you who really strive, nor knoweth those (of you) who are steadfast?
293 Lo! We tested those who were before you. Thus Allah knoweth those who are sincere, and knoweth those who feign.
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This is just my observation, I am not saying I am correct but I just wanted to express this. Please, any feedback would be great. Thank you.
I have been thinking a lot on this topic, and I see verses in the Quran that dictate that what we perceive as "free-will" is just an illusion. What we are being judged on, is by is our hearts which stems from our intentions.
853 That is because God was not to change anything He bestowed to a people, unless they change what is in themselves. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
Therefore, "what is in themselves" reviles that our intention, within our heart, is what ignites the manifestation of our reality that Allah creates. His attributes being The Creator, The Designer. What God bestows is the "reality" from what we experience. The feelings, emotions, and actions are manifested by Allah, which are all dependent upon our intention.
335 ...you are responsible for your purposeful intentions. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
76.30. You cannot will unless God wills. Surely God is All-Knowing, All-Wise
817 It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. It was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. So that those who acknowledge would be tested well by Him. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
Allah is the ultimate reality that we have been experiencing since our birth till eternity...
2115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
This ultimately leads to truly acknowledging the essence of belief of "not setting partners with God" even ourselves (free will).
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Sure, sorry I should of done that from the start.
3142 - Or deemed ye that ye would enter paradise while yet Allah knoweth not those of you who really strive, nor knoweth those (of you) who are steadfast?
293 Lo! We tested those who were before you. Thus Allah knoweth those who are sincere, and knoweth those who feign.
I believe in 3142 the concerned words are yalami and wayalama, which mean, "has made known" and "and has made known" respectively. This would render the translation as
3142 - Or deemed ye that ye would enter paradise while yet Allah has not made known those of you who really strive, nor has made known those (of you) who are steadfast?
On the other hand, for 293 the concerned words are falayalamanna and walayalamanna, which mean, "so surely makes known" and "and surely makes known" respectively. This would render the translation as
293 Lo! We tested those who were before you. Thus Allah surely makes known those who are sincere, and surely makes known those who feign.
Much appreciate if someone with knowledge of Arabic can comment or confirm.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman
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<b>3142 - Or deemed ye that ye would enter paradise while yet Allah has not made known those of you who really strive, nor has made known those (of you) who are steadfast?
293 Lo! We tested those who were before you. Thus Allah surely makes known those who are sincere, and surely makes known those who feign.</b>
Hi bro )
Who do you think God is making these things known to? I guess ourselves is the most obvious answer.
Do you have translations for 3166-167, 186-7, 1812, 2044 1112, 672, 7228..? Sorry I didn't mean for the list to get so long
If you can be bothered, all good if you can't or don't want to.
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Salam Brother.
Yes, I believe Allah put us to test so that we ourselves can know whether we can pass the test.
Somewhat like ETS conducts the GRE test not to know who is good and who is bad. ETS doesn't care - the test is conducted so that the test takers themselves can know their standing and can prove their own merit to others.
In a more relevant context it is very easy for us to hypothesize sittting in the comfort of our chair that "If we were born at the time of Muhammad (pbh) - we would have acted like his Sahabas, OR If we were born at the time of Jesus (pbh) - we would have acted like his disciples" But we can really know whether our hypothesis is true when we would be put in a situation that would require sacrifice, patience or devotion like the sahabas or the disciples. Allah knows what we are capable of and what we are not - Allah puts us to test so that we can know for ourselves what we are.
I reviewed all the verses you've referred - but did not find anything that would contradict my understanding. In some of the verses (like 3166-167, 722 the same arabic verb ya'lama has been used - which I believe means "To make known" or "To make evident". Per my reading, whatever uncertainity is reflected in these verses - are all uncertainity from the reader's perspective - not uncertainity from the author's perspective. An assumption that Allah does not know how we are going to act and that's why He is testing us - is against my fundamental conception of Allah (which is based on 2255 where it is clearly stated that He knows what is before us and what is after us).
By the way, it would be interesting to know your analysis of some of the verses quoted by brother Kayvon especially 7630.
May Allah guide us to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
This is just my observation, I am not saying I am correct but I just wanted to express this. Please, any feedback would be great. Thank you.
I have been thinking a lot on this topic, and I see verses in the Quran that dictate that what we perceive as "free-will" is just an illusion. What we are being judged on, is by is our hearts which stems from our intentions.
853 That is because God was not to change anything He bestowed to a people, unless they change what is in themselves. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
Therefore, "what is in themselves" reviles that our intention, within our heart, is what ignites the manifestation of our reality that Allah creates. His attributes being The Creator, The Designer. What God bestows is the "reality" from what we experience. The feelings, emotions, and actions are manifested by Allah, which are all dependent upon our intention.
335 ...you are responsible for your purposeful intentions. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
76.30. You cannot will unless God wills. Surely God is All-Knowing, All-Wise
817 It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. It was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. So that those who acknowledge would be tested well by Him. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
Allah is the ultimate reality that we have been experiencing since our birth till eternity...
2115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
This ultimately leads to truly acknowledging the essence of belief of "not setting partners with God" even ourselves (free will).
.....I would also like to add, which i read just at this very moment
Guidance starts from the heart, which God blesses us based off our intentions
6411 No misfortune strikes except with God's leave. Whosoever acknowledges God, He will guide his heart. God is fully aware of all things
Therefore, self-righteousness is completely out of the picture.
4717 Those who are guided, He increases their guidance, and grants them their righteousness
Peace,
Kayvon -
<b>An assumption that Allah does not know how we are going to act and that's why He is testing us - is against my fundamental conception of Allah (which is based on 2255 where it is clearly stated that He knows what is before us and what is after us).</b>
Selam bro.
I think 2255 can also be interpreted as saying, He knows what awaits us in the next life.
<b>By the way, it would be interesting to know your analysis of some of the verses quoted by brother Kayvon especially 7630.</b>
Sure, mate.
<b>853 That is because God was not to change anything He bestowed to a people, unless they change what is in themselves. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.</b>
I agree that one of the main criteria we are judged by are our intentions. But not the only one. I mean, I may intend to one day help the needy but this is meaningless until I put my intention into action.
I also have no problem with 335, we are responsible for our intentions. I read this as saying as long as we mean well in our actions then there is no sin if things take an unintended turn for the worse because of our actions.
Let's say I finally get off my butt and put my intention of helping the needy into action by going to a soup kitchen to help, but I accidentally spill all the soup on the floor. What I did was bad since people will go hungry because of me but my intention was good so I have not sinned.If we look at some of the preceding verses, I think they support my view as well.
<i>332 - But follow that which comes to thee by inspiration from thy Lord for Allah is well acquainted with (all) that ye do.</i>
If God is the one directing our will then this instruction is pointless, isn't He the one who decides if we "follow that which comes to thee by inspiration" according to your viewpoint? Also it says God is acquainted with all that we do, not what we will do.
<i>334 - ...This is but a saying of your mouths. But Allah saith the truth and He showeth the way.</i>
If God directs our every action then how is it a "saying of their mouths?" If you are right, the people He was referring to here only said what He willed them to say.. right?
<b>76.30. You cannot will unless God wills. Surely God is All-Knowing, All-Wise </b>
We have freewill because God has bestowed it on us, and He can take it away. Since He didn't just create the universe but sustains its existence at every moment, we need Him to sustain our freewill at every moment. So we cannot will unless He wills us to be able to do so. I don't think this means He dictates our will, just allows us to have it.
<b>817 It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. It was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. So that those who acknowledge would be tested well by Him. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.</b>
They were following Gods order, therefore God took responsibility for their actions. Like in the military, if something goes wrong the commanding officer is held responsible and even if they are not, an honourable leader will often hold themselves responsible anyway.
<b>2115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.</b>
This seems to be reffering to omnipresence.. I don't see the relevance.
<b>6411 No misfortune strikes except with God's leave. Whosoever acknowledges God, He will guide his heart. God is fully aware of all things</b>
This is similar to 7630. No misfortune strikes without God's leave, yes, but neither does fortune. Anything that happens good or bad happens because God allows it to happen, I am not sure that this necessarily means He is <i>directly causing</i> it to happen.
<b>4717 Those who are guided, He increases their guidance, and grants them their righteousness</b>
I think this helps my point. Those who are guided He increases in guidance? This makes no sense.. God is the one Guiding us, so because He chose to guide us He will increase our guidance?
It's like saying "since I decided to give you ice cream, here have some more ice cream."
I think it makes much more sense if we read it as "Those who seek guidance(through our own volition) will have help from God". It is still us who have to want to take the first step towards Him and then continue to want to be on His path.
Just to be clear these are just my opinions and I am fairly new to this, I don't want it looking like I am trying to pass any of this stuff off as facts.
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Just to be clear these are just my opinions and I am fairly new to this, I don't want it looking like I am trying to pass any of this stuff off as facts.
Salamun Alaika Brother. I share similar sentiment - I engage in discussion so that we can learn from each other. I do believe we as humans can never grasp the true essence of God / Allah. He is simply beyond our imagination. It is always a journey.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Best regards,
Arman -
Boba you made some interesting points, I will have to study further. Thank you for taking the time to give such a thorough reply. God bless.