Still stuck with Traditional "Islam"?
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Welcome Chimpanzee.
- Sunni/Shia Islam is Islam. It is a numbers game.
You have mixed up so many things, dear, it is difficult to start . . . general advice, yeah? If you don't really know much about something . . . smart thing to do is to learn . . . not promulgate your half-baked views as gospel.
I just give my views, period.
- Allah - is a personal name. Virtually all scholars of Islam - Muslim or otherwise with expertise in Arabic/Islam that we will never have agree upon this.
Argumentum ad auctoritatem. "The authority says so, it is so". Wow.
"Allah is a personal name". Sectarian doctrine! Allah is just an Arabic word, not a personal name like Krishna the Hindu god. You do not give a damn about what I said regarding Arabic-Maltese-Aramaic words for Monotheistic God.Incorrect. Vowel marks are there for correct pronunciation.
Guess what happens if you mispronounce? With a cool mind - why don't you give this one a think?
You think Arabic dialects and accents are all the same from Lebanon to Morocco and from earlier centuries until now? Wow what kind of idiocy is this? You do not think out the box that's what your goddamn problem is.
It wasn't . . . Quran was revealed in Arabic and the book itself says it is in Arabic. Hence the above is completely pointless.
Chimpanzee, you have a freaking serious goddamn COMPREHENSIVE problem. I did NOT say the original Qur'an was in Spanish, I said IF Qur'an was in Spanish, the word Dios would be used, period! Understood?
It is quite clear - you do not know what the vowel marks are . . . why don't you find out? What you say here is just nonsense and completely wrong.
Okay okay okay you are right on this smartass Chimpanzee.
But go learn some history and look at earliest Quran manuscripts, no Diacritics were used. But they are added by men to 1. What you said, "correct" pronounciations.........,,, of some Arabic accents. 2. And arts.... Arabic Bible has too. It is useful for reciations.No they do not. Anyone silly enough to make the above argument will be laughed at . . .
Go search some anti-islamic websites such as answering Islam and you will fine Islamophobes using this argument.
Again - I do not think you have understood their argument.
They exist, chimpanzee. I understand their arguments. You can ask wasi and mmkhan for this. They use this argument to disprove Mohammed.
What is it that you are waiting for?
So what's wrong with searching the truth?
I am sorry - but it is REALLY difficult to take such arguments seriously . . . other those who make them and do take them seriously.
I am sorry that you are still indoctrinated by Sunnis who teach myths such as 72 voluptuous virgins.
You are the ones who need to learn much thing before posting your Sunni-dogmatic views on here. And furthermore, improve your comprehension, please.
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Peace,
I did not argue I know more Arabic than you.
I said "may have added to corruption" as something you add to a language may not portray the original meaning. If it was added by someone who only guessed on something then it may become wrong. That you had to add those marks in the first place means the language was not perfect and thus not divine is all.
Yes The Great Reading was revealed in Arabic, so what?
Okay, I did not say alah, but it is still a combination of that and al and my argument is still fully valid. Allah technically means "the god".
I knew full well what I was talking about.
And it was not any judgment of Sunni Islam but against the use of Arabic for God's creed.
Peace
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Perhaps you hate this thread so much that's why you made this ridiculous post, didn't you?
If I used Submitters, Submission, The Great Reading, would people even freaking understand what I wrote about? Some people will object for translating everything and some people do not agree with translations of Quran, Islam and Muslims into The Great Reading, Submission and Submitters.
Mohammed is perhaps a name of a person or not. Re-read again my post regarding Mohanmed please.I don't think the Arabic name Habib should be translated into Love when speaking English about a person named Habib. Unlike God, people have personal and definite names whereas God does not have a definite name. In Arabic, Allah. In English, God. In Maltese, Alla. In Spanish, Dios. Unless you are talking about pagan gods. They have their own names such as Krishna etc.
Why? Hate my post because you are one of those who use Allah while speaking English?
I am not going to shoot people who use translatable Arabic words such as Allah, sura, ayat, jannah, nikah, zina etc while not speaking Arabic. That's people's choice. I just simply make this post voluntarily and just give my opinions.If you still want to use Allah, ayat, sura, sadaqa etc while speaking non-Arabic languages, then fine.
Salaam,
Amazing how fast and easy you have excuses for yourself.
Maybe (just a suggestion) instead of judging others by your conjectures, it would be more beneficial for you and more pious of you to ask them also for their reasons.Salaam,
Bender -
I just give my views, period.
Not good enough . . . especially when passing judgment on people. Not good enough by long mile - you should be ashamed of yourself - for saying and thinking like this. I am quite sure . . . you intend to be a good person like everyone else. . . but if you are completely wrong and have half-baked theories and bits of hearsay knowledge . . . then try not to spout them emphatically.
Argumentum ad auctoritatem. "The authority says so, it is so". Wow.
"Allah is a personal name". Sectarian doctrine! Allah is just an Arabic word, not a personal name like Krishna the Hindu god. You do not give a damn about what I said regarding Arabic-Maltese-Aramaic words for Monotheistic God.Once again - you are clearly wrong. And you do not know meaning of or understand what
"Argumentum ad auctoritatem" is. Not all Arguments of Authority are fallacious. . .
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Why don't you look it up?
Hamid is am Arabic word and a name . . . Amin, Sagheer, Shabbir, . . . most ARE!
Saeed, for example, is a name and an Arabic Noun/Adjective.
Allah - is a proper name.
You think Arabic dialects and accents are all the same from Lebanon to Morocco and from earlier centuries until now? Wow what kind of idiocy is this? You do not think out the box that's what your goddamn problem is.
Once again . . . you do not know what you are talking about. . .
Arabic dialects and "Vowel Marks" are two completely different things . . .
It is likely comparing Cars with Houses.
Chimpanzee, you have a freaking serious goddamn COMPREHENSIVE problem. I did NOT say the original Qur'an was in Spanish, I said IF Qur'an was in Spanish, the word Dios would be used, period! Understood?
I will repeat
"It wasn't . . . Quran was revealed in Arabic and the book itself says it is in Arabic. Hence the above is completely pointless."
Such hypothesis are pointless and fallacious.
Okay okay okay you are right on this smartass Chimpanzee.
Yes - and I am right above - look it up. I am right about practically everything here. Point I am trying to make to you is . . . when you have 2 bits of hearsay knowledge and clearly do not know what you are talking about . . . the dearest . . . do NOT use that knowledge to condemn others.
But go learn some history and look at earliest Quran manuscripts, no Diacritics were used. But they are added by men to 1. What you said, "correct" pronounciations.........,,, of some Arabic accents. 2. And arts.... Arabic Bible has too. It is useful for reciations.
Once again - CLEARLY you do not know 2 thing about Arabic . . . admit I am right - yet still have the stupidity and lack of any shame to spout this up again!
I am sorry - but you are COMPLETELY wrong. You do not know what you are saying . . .
Go search some anti-islamic websites such as answering Islam and you will fine Islamophobes using this argument.
No I will not. And if they did . . . like I said . . . they will be laughed at . . .
They exist, chimpanzee. I understand their arguments. You can ask wasi and mmkhan for this. They use this argument to disprove Mohammed.
No you have not. I do not think you are
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Educated.
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Intelligent.
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Perceptive
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Open minded
All necessary to progress learning.
So what's wrong with searching the truth?
You are NOT search the truth . . . and are simply spouting a whole load of factual errors and lack any shame whatsoever . . .
I am sorry that you are still indoctrinated by Sunnis who teach myths such as 72 voluptuous virgins.
You are the ones who need to learn much thing before posting your Sunni-dogmatic views on here. And furthermore, improve your comprehension, please.
There you go! That is nothing more than "sectarianism".
You are a "very" dogmatic person . . . when in clear error and factually incorrect . . . you still spout your nonsense. . . I am sorry but that is not right. You do your own cause injustice.
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I said "may have added to corruption" as something you add to a language may not portray the original meaning. If it was added by someone who only guessed on something then it may become wrong. That you had to add those marks in the first place means the language was not perfect and thus not divine is all.
If you do not know what you are talking about . . . that is have no concept of the subject matter. . . which you clearly do not . . . then right thin to do is "validate" or ask . . . learn more.
See
"That you had to add those marks in the first place means the language was not perfect and thus not divine is all."
This remark reveals that you do not understand the underlying concepts. . . and it reveals your prejudice too. What is a "perfect" language? And would a perfect language automatically mean "divine"?
It is perfectly possible to have "perfect" language and "imperfect" beings . .
or are you saying that God could not find a perfect language and used an imperfect language and subsequently Quran is not perfect as it is revealed in imperfect tongue . . . so there is a possibility that we have imperfect divinity?
Yes The Great Reading was revealed in Arabic, so what?
So - Arabic is of some importance . . . it was chosen to as "the language" and if someone wants to read the book then they have learn the language- also Quran is a Proper Noun.
Okay, I did not say alah, but it is still a combination of that and al and my argument is still fully valid. Allah technically means "the god".
Which is not an argument . . . EVERYONE knows that Allah means "The God" . . . who is disputing that?
I knew full well what I was talking about.
As pointed out in the reply, no you did not.
And it was not any judgment of Sunni Islam but against the use of Arabic for God's creed.
Yet God himself saw Arabic fit to use it for his creed.
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Not good enough . . . especially when passing judgment on people. Not good enough by long mile - you should be ashamed of yourself - for saying and things like this. I am quite sure . . . you intend to be a good person like everyone else. . . but if you are completely wrong and have half-baked theories and bits of hearsay knowledge . . . then try not to spout them emphatically.
Once again - you are clearly wrong. And you do not know meaning of or understand what
"Argumentum ad auctoritatem" is. Not all Arguments of Authority are fallacious. . .
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Why don't you look it up?
Hamid is am Arabic word and a name . . . Amin, Sagheer, Shabbir, . . . most ARE!
Saeed, for example, is a name and an Arabic Noun/Adjective.
Allah - is a proper name.
Once again . . . you do not know what you are talking about. . .
Arabic dialects and "Vowel Marks" are two completely different things . . .
It is likely comparing Cars with Houses.
I will repeat
"It wasn't . . . Quran was revealed in Arabic and the book itself says it is in Arabic. Hence the above is completely pointless."
Such hypothesis are pointless and fallacious.
Yes - and I am right above - look it up. I am right about practically everything here. Point I am trying to make to you is . . . when you have 2 bits of hearsay knowledge and clearly do not know what you are talking about . . . the dearest . . . do NOT use that knowledge to condemn others.
Once again - CLEARLY you do not know 2 thing about Arabic . . . admit I am right - yet still have the stupidity and lack of any shame to spout this up again!
I am sorry - but you are COMPLETELY wrong. You do not know what you are saying . . .
No I will not. And if they did . . . like I said . . . they will be laughed at . . .
No you have not. I do not think you are
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Educated.
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Intelligent.
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Perceptive
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Open minded
All necessary to progress learning.
You are NOT search the truth . . . and are simply spouting a whole load of factual errors and lack any shame whatsoever . . .
There you go! That is nothing more than "sectarianism".
You are a "very" dogmatic person . . . when in clear error and factually incorrect . . . you still spout your nonsense. . . I am sorry but that is not right. You do your own cause injustice.
Your post is full of personal insults and only a little of contents of your post is point.
Perhaps when you are debating all you did "I am right, you are wrong" blablabla just like chimpanzees making noises at the zoos.
Go learn the history of the word Allah. Allah is has been used even before the Qur'an was revealed. Mostly used by idolaters.
Why don't you freaking know that there are also different versions of Quran with didactical marks? So what is it?
I did not say whether the Arabic word Allah is a proper name or not but it is stupid to say God has a personal names like humans. If you say Allah is a personal name of a deity then please feel free to say you love the moon-god Allah that the orientalists are talking about.
If you simply say "A is right because authority says so" without other points that it is a fallacy.
As for the diacritics, the diacritics were composed according to Qurayshi dialect. However, among the earliest Quran manuscripts that is known today was found in Yemen, without diacritics.
God did not wrote the letters of Quran and throw Quran from sky but God chose an Arab messenger. God inspired the Arab messenger through Gabriel and you know why Quran was in Arabic language.
You did not answer why Christian Arabs use Allah too?
It has been known in history that the word Allah has been existed even before 570 AD. It is always associated. with moon-god.
So far I have never met any arrogant Sunnis like this Sunni Chimpanzee.
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Salaam,
Amazing how fast and easy you have excuses for yourself.
Maybe (just a suggestion) instead of judging others by your conjectures, it would be more beneficial for you and more pious of you to ask them also for their reasons.Salaam,
BenderJudging others blablablablabla....
What is your point to disprove my claims?
None. Just nothing.
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Judging others blablablablabla....
What is your point to disprove my claims?
None. Just nothing.Salaam,
Can you rephrase your question please, I am not sure if I understood what you are asking.
Do you mean I have to point out the wrong and/or unbased claims you made in the opening post?salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
Can you rephrase your question please, I am not sure if I understood what you are asking.
Do you mean I have to point out the wrong and/or unbased claims you made in the opening post?salaam,
BenderUnbased claims?
Such as....?
So according to you the Lord has the personal name Allah, just like a person has the name Mahmoud etc? What about the pagan gods during pre-Islamic era in Arabia?
And so according to you God threw Qur'an with diacritics from sky?
So what are the baseless claims? You expect people to think the same and others who do not think the same are wrong?
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This is incorrect - Allah is construct of 'al-' and 'Illah'
Salaam
Allah is not a proper noun but common noun.The characteristics of proper nouns is this words has neutral in gender and forbidden to be translated into another languages even it can.Example Muhammad.
The word "Allah" is masculine in gender and it's feminine form is "Allata" / (the main rules of feminine/muannatz is ta' in the last word).This word appeared in ayat 5319.
So this mean the word "Allah" can be transalted in another languages.
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Unbased claims?
Such as....?
Salaam,
These are your words I copy pasted.
-- However, there are those who have left traditional "Islam" but are actually still stuck with traditional "Islam" by still using Allah, ayat, sura instead of God, verse, chapter when speaking English. ==> In Traditional "Islam", Arabic is considered as a very holy language. When in discussions and conversations especially about Islam, the traditionalists will prefer using Allah, ayat, sura, jannah instead of God, verse, chapter, Heaven when speaking English. They think using some words in Arabic make them more pious.
-- Some people on here still use Allah while speaking English. They think the Lord has a definite and personal name like humans do and His mother tongue is Arabic?
"May Allah bless you", "May Allah increase our knowledge", "Which ayah is it" blablabla.....this is why they are baseless claims
- I am one of those who left traditional islam an still use the Quranic Arabic for some words and the reasons you gave do not apply for me.
- Zulf also does not follow traditional islam and also uses Quranic Arabic for some words, his reason "we also need to realize that there are words/concepts that cannot be translated in a one-to-one word manner. So, in many cases, I prefer to use the Arabic words, to keep the wider (and hopefully more correct) sense of the word."
- you also do not follow traditional islam and also uses Quranic Arabic for some words, your reason "If I used Submitters, Submission, The Great Reading, would people even freaking understand what I wrote about?"
So maybe instead of judging others by your conjectures about their motives, maybe it is better to ask directly to those persons why they do it, I believe that is a much better way.
So according to you the Lord has the personal name Allah, just like a person has the name Mahmoud etc?
Is this a question or are you putting words in my mouth?
If you meant it as a serious question, then NO I do not believe Allah is a personal name as per my current knowledge.What about the pagan gods during pre-Islamic era in Arabia?
What about them? I have almost no knowledge on that area, so not sure what you want to say?
And so according to you God threw Qur'an with diacritics from sky?
Also not sure if this is meant as a question or putting words in my mouth.
In case it is a serious question then NO I do not believe Allah threw The Quran with diacritics from sky as per my current knowledge.So what are the baseless claims?
see above
You expect people to think the same and others who do not think the same are wrong?
not sure if I understood what you are trying to say.
Salaam,
Bender -
It is clear that the audio signal "ISLAM" is now correlated in meaning to
"A SPECIFIC TRADITION AMONG THOUSANDS IF NOT MILLIONS OF TRADITION EXIST WITHIN HUMAN SOCIETY TODAY".And it is clear as well that there are NUMBERS OF TRADITION competing for the SOLE-EXCLUSIVE-RIGHT to the name / trademark of ISLAM.
We are now lucky to live in "The Greatest Time" of human's history ever known.
Where for the first time, human from every corner of the planet can communicate with each others easily.
In Michio Kaku's lingo; "We're within a transformation period of becoming Type-1 Civilization, Planetary Civilization"The big ape now can discover OTHER TRADITION than their own, mostly because of their curiosity traits.
Once discovered, the big ape starts to do comparison between those tradition.And due to their "competitive nature" (which they learned from million years through the "Survivability of the Fittest", they
want to find THE BEST TRADITION, and for the sake of "survivability" they want THEIR OWN TRADITION to be the BEST TRADITION as thus becoming THE PLANETARY TRADITION. In order to do so; they need to show how OTHER TRADITION THAN THEIR OWN is A LESSER TRADITION and how THEIR OWN TRADITION is A GREATER TRADITION.Most probably there will not be A TRADITION which survive in it's original form to become "PLANETARY TRADITION".
Most probably THE PLANETARY TRADITION will be a NEW TRADITION resulting from the mixture of TRADITIONS.
This is clearly evident by observing THE ISLAM TRADITION came to shape about 1300-1400 years ago, THE ISLAM TRADITION is a mixed bag of Christianism, Judaism, Persian/Zoroastrianism and Arab Paganism Tradition.So the title is kind of misleading it should be renamed to "Still Stuck With Your Own Tradition?".
And yes of course you can mix Spanish with English.
English as a language will continue to evolve to fit specific human needs of communication.
And I've seen how english mixed with chinese and malay language today, which perhaps in about 100 years from now shall give birth to a new different language. The english language as we know today, is the result of mixture between Celt, Latin, Germanic and Nordic language.Salam / Peace
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there are those who have left traditional "Islam" but are actually still stuck with traditional "Islam" by still using Allah, ayat, sura instead of God, verse, chapter when speaking English.
The Deen of Islam is about...
- Obedience
- No division
He has made plain to you <-- Islam in a nutshell.
of the Din (l-dni)that keep to obedience <- "We hear, we obey
and be not divided therein <- "justly balanced" vs. sectarianism
(4213)The name of "Allah"/languages is NOT about...
- Obedience
- No division
Therefore, the name of "Allah"/languages is not about the Deen of Islam.
It is a matter of personal preferences
and "there is no compulsion in the deen". (2256) -
Salaam
Allah is not a proper noun but common noun.The characteristics of proper nouns is this words has neutral in gender and forbidden to be translated into another languages even it can.Example Muhammad.
The word "Allah" is masculine in gender and it's feminine form is "Allata" / (the main rules of feminine/muannatz is ta' in the last word).This word appeared in ayat 5319.
So this mean the word "Allah" can be transalted in another languages.
This is simply not open to debate . . . the word Allah - IS a proper noun - when referring to Allah as found in the Quran.
It is formed from a common noun. . . but that particular usage is not common noun.
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Your post is full of personal insults and only a little of contents of your post is point.
Perhaps when you are debating all you did "I am right, you are wrong" blablabla just like chimpanzees making noises at the zoos.
Go learn the history of the word Allah. Allah is has been used even before the Qur'an was revealed. Mostly used by idolaters.
Why don't you freaking know that there are also different versions of Quran with didactical marks? So what is it?
I did not say whether the Arabic word Allah is a proper name or not but it is stupid to say God has a personal names like humans. If you say Allah is a personal name of a deity then please feel free to say you love the moon-god Allah that the orientalists are talking about.
If you simply say "A is right because authority says so" without other points that it is a fallacy.
As for the diacritics, the diacritics were composed according to Qurayshi dialect. However, among the earliest Quran manuscripts that is known today was found in Yemen, without diacritics.
God did not wrote the letters of Quran and throw Quran from sky but God chose an Arab messenger. God inspired the Arab messenger through Gabriel and you know why Quran was in Arabic language.
You did not answer why Christian Arabs use Allah too?
It has been known in history that the word Allah has been existed even before 570 AD. It is always associated. with moon-god.
So far I have never met any arrogant Sunnis like this Sunni Chimpanzee.
You are not very well educated . . . you do not have command over your subject . . . and you have the stupidity to say
Go learn the history of the word Allah. Allah is has been used even before the Qur'an was revealed. Mostly used by idolaters.
No - I have learned the history of the word . . . along side being a competent scholar of Arabic and Islam.
Your posts are full of factual errors - when these are pointed out . . . you get unnecessarily angry and abusive. . .
It is completely pointless trying to talk to you. . .
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You have very little knowledge.
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You are clearly not educated.
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You are dogmatic - when presented with basic errors . . .
So what is the point?
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Why don't you freaking know that there are also different versions of Quran with didactical marks? So what is it?
If you do not understand what Vowel Marks are . . . then this discussion is completely pointless. Please - go and learn some basic Arabic.
I did not say whether the Arabic word Allah is a proper name or not but it is stupid to say God has a personal names like humans. If you say Allah is a personal name of a deity then please feel free to say you love the moon-god Allah that the orientalists are talking about.
This is just silly. The word "Allah" is a proper name. Fact. You will not any scholar who denies this.
"If you say Allah is a personal name of a deity then please feel free to say you love the moon-god Alla"
Why? You have not read any orientalists . . .that is obvious. I doubt thta you have EVER read a single such book.
If you simply say "A is right because authority says so" without other points that it is a fallacy.
Not really no - as I have said . . . you do not really what logical fallacies are . . .
What I said was this . . . " All authorities" agree that the word Allah is Proper Noun. Now which fallacy is for misrepresenting someone's vies?
As for the diacritics, the diacritics were composed according to Qurayshi dialect. However, among the earliest Quran manuscripts that is known today was found in Yemen, without diacritics.
Look - there is no point to it . . .you do not know what you are talking about and are completely wrong!
You did not answer why Christian Arabs use Allah too?
I do not need to really
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
I think this will do you good!
It has been known in history that the word Allah has been existed even before 570 AD. It is always associated. with moon-god.
Again . . . incorrect. Read the above wiki page!
So far I have never met any arrogant Sunnis like this Sunni Chimpanzee.
Hmm . . . you are EVEN wrong over my user name!
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Peace,
When to call AllahAnd When to call Rubb, God
The Quran uses the word "Allah" when referring to the "One God" of the heavens and the earth and everything in between - all put together. Otherwise it is just the 'Rubb', meaning the God, inherently possessing all of the individual Attributes of Allah. Mostly when you seek from the earthly manifest things of Allah, delinking yourself from the hidden treasures of the heavens from where by Allah's command the mighty power descend in the abstract form to create every kind of produce for the living beings on the earth.
So when you call on Allah, know that you need a fresh creation that the world does not know thus far, discreetly as a Sign unto you from Him, Allah, to strengthen your peace or salam with Him, through His wisdom, to stand all alone in this world, and thus your Will is to be a Muslim unto Him. But if your need is of the created things or some of the visible produce that make your daily requirement for the living, call Allah as God and by His individual Attributes; or in other sense call on God when you seek from the Most Bountiful and the Most Benevolent out of what you know already as possessors of the earthly material knowledge, the idols.
Collectively calling on The One, by all His Attributes in mind, then it is "ALLAH" the only VOCABULARY, that encompasses the entire gamut of His Kingdom, the heavens and the earth and everything in between. And a Sign from Allah descends upon such of His bondsmen upon who He is pleased with the Sign having all of God's Attributes as an abstract power and as a stamp of His Authority. These are the Messengers who were chosen Muslims from among the mumins. No amount of dictionaries in the entire world with all their languages can get the glimpse of the meaning of the Word Allah. It shall have to be given to one's Ruh as a feel through Wahi by Allah.
Before you are chosen by Allah as Muslims seek from the state of your toddler's steps of being a mumin, from your God thus
2128 Our Rubb, O God, and make us Muslims unto You and from our descendants a Muslim nation unto You. And teach us our 'calling' and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
Observe in the above ayat how Rubb or God is complimented with Allah's Attributes in the end of their 'calling'.
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This is simply not open to debate . . . the word Allah - IS a proper noun - when referring to Allah as found in the Quran.
It is formed from a common noun. . . but that particular usage is not common noun.
Arab-Christian use "Allah" in their Bible as well as this word also written in Arabic Psalm.
What base of ur theory, just because Allah is not portions of Al and Illah??RED So do you mean while in the Koran it's common noun while in the Psalm isn't? a coincidental?
BLUE This because of religious dogma.Salaam