17:36 and to follow in the light of the quran
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Peace upon you marie, all,
Maybe you are right for 1736 for the word "takfou" as meaning "to say". Those advices are the same as 6151-153, and especially in 6152.
Although "to say" is translated in arabic as "'ka'la", but I can see what you are refering to.
Could this be the reason why "maryam" was told to abstain from talking because she had no knowledge of how she concieved "?ssa"?
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Peace be upon you Marie and all,
How do we use "takfou" to mean "say", when all over the reading we have "qul" to mean "say"?
If my research is correct "takfou" come from root "q-f-w". What does this root word mean?
Here is what I found from Burhans site index
http//www.openburhan.com/data/b.x.1070.htm
I got the implication of going after(as in succeeding or following footsteps).
Please give me your thoughts.
Besides that , if we took "takfou" to mean "say", then there is very little that we would be able to speak, especially we could not talk about any Literal Jesus and Muhammads, because we don't have sure information about those literal figures. we certainly cannot talk about seas splitting in twos nor people escaping from being burnt alive, nor virgin births.
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peace Kyle, Marie, all,
From the QD (I highly recommend this book by the way)
QFW = to go after, walk behind, follow in the track of, follow the footsteps of, to cause to follow or succeed.
This is how its used in al quran.
Based on this brief analysis of mine. 1736 is "follow/pursue" NOT "say". This understanding is further cemented imho by the latter part of the ayat in which it lists human faculties for gaining knowledge, not specifically related to speech.
Wakas
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Peace be upon you Wakas,
Thank you for the clarification D
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Peace Kyle Wakas, all
After looking in my arabic-arabic dicionnary "lisan alAAarab" To say is one of the several meaning of the veb (qafaa, yaqfoo)).
We can say ?qafaa Mister X Madam Y? it means Mister X says about Madam Y (behind her/ in his absence) bad words.
?qafaa? can mean the nape of the neck
?alqafw and alttaqaafee? means slander and lie which one says against another person
?alqafw? can mean the origin of a declaration, testimony
In the light of the quran, the verb ?qala? is the standard verb to say say.
In the same way, ?ittabaAAa? is the standard verb to say "to follow"The arabic language is very rich, for example there is several way to say the cat alqqitt, alsinnawr, alhhir and it depend on his posture (rest, attack a prey.. ..).
Allah uses the verb ?qala, qul? when He orders the prophet to say something or to answer some questions, to say a truth.
This is how its used in al quran.
In 2287 we read ?qaffaa.. bi?? which means to follow someone with/by something
Idem in 546, 5727 we read ?qaffaa?bi...?In 1736, we read qafaa, this is not the same form than ?qaffaa..bi?, both can mean to follow. According the context, the verb ?qafaa, yaqfoo? can mean to say lie, testify a false testimony, to slander.
I always think that ?taqfu? in 1736 means to say, to assert something without being perfectly sure, to provide a false information, to say you heard and you did not hear, you saw and you did not see, you know and you don't know, like to walk in the land arrogantly 1737 "All of this is bad, and disliked by your Lord 1738",
Gaining knowledge is not the only role of Human faculties, they will bear witness to everything they had done.(420)
41.22. And there was no way you could hide from the testimony of your own hearing, or your eyes, or your skins. In fact, you thought that God was unaware of much of what you do.
Allah knows best
Marie
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Peace be upon you Marie,
If you take 1736 to mean " notto assert something without being perfectly sure", then i hope you are perfectly sure about this understanding or you have disobeyed, as have many of us on this forum every single day.
I disagree with that understanding.
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peace Kyle,
My goal is to share my view not to convince. I try to follow the best explanation in the light of the context of the verse.
"do not say (taqfu) what you have no knowledge of" doesn't concern what is inspired to the prophet through the quran. The prophet merely follow what is inspired to Him (650) and which is the absolute truth.
None of us even the prophet weren't present during this event (234) but we believe it is the absolute truth.
Idem for 344, 1149, 12102., 2844-46....etc
Marie
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Peace be upon you Marie,
Thank you for sharing. What do you think of the critisism I gave regarding your current position?
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"do not say (taqfu) what you have no knowledge of" doesn't concern what is inspired to the prophet through the quran. The prophet merely follow what is inspired to Him (650) and which is the absolute truth.
None of us even the prophet weren't present during this event (234) but we believe it is the absolute truth.
Idem for 344, 1149, 12102., 2844-46....etc
do not say (taqfu) what you have no knowledge of, every day during our life (1736, 1737, 173, that concern our daily behaviour.
We have to read before (1722-24, 26, 29) and after (1737-39) 1736 to get a full picture.Allah knows best
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Peace be upon you MArie,
None of us even the prophet weren't present during this event (234) but we believe it is the absolute truth.
We are present right here and now observing the proceses of our thoughts, that is how we verify 234 in order to be knowledgeable about it.
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Peace all
this is a small point but if one replaced "say" with "speak about" - it would better fit the notion of something which follows on after. ie
- And do not speak about (taqfu) that of which you have no knowledge. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
Perhaps the problem here that we need to differentiate between "follow" as in "to be a follower, to agree with" and the follow in sequence. As Marie point out the first usage is present in
wala tattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytani
and do not follow the steps of the devil (216whereas 'taqfu" - from Qafa - implies following in sequence. In this sense rendering "taqfu" as "follow/uphold" impies too strong a sense of commitment/belief. You might perhaps also use a phrase like "go along with" - it carries with it the sense of physical movement which Qafa seems to contain - thus
1736 And don't go along with that of which you have no knowledge. For hearing, eyesight and mind, all these you are responsible for.
and may Allah guide us
asdfjk
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peace sister marie,
According the context, the verb ?qafaa, yaqfoo? can mean to say lie, testify a false testimony, to slander.
Whilst I agree this is a possibility, judging by the usage of the term in al quran I think this is less likely than "go along with / follow / agree with / uphold".
Wakas
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Peace all,
Thank you for your inputs.
I think the tradition compiled by Bukhari & co about 200 years after the death of the prophet is a good a example for this possibility to "say" or to "speak about" that of which you have no knowledge.
I agree if we speak about that of which we have no knowledge that imply we "go along with / agree with.
There is a difference between only to say (qala) and to say or to speak about a false information, an uncertain information.
In other words, the verb qafa = to say/speak about an uncertain or wrong information. The second part of the verse specifies the nature of the information (alqafw) which is not based on knowledge, or based on conjecture.- And amongst them are Gentiles who do not know the Scripture except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
Marie
