She's Not Naked !!!
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Peace,
Peace es,
I am not making a point, only putting out a visual for members to see and comment.
Like I said in the post "you decide".God bless you
peace
My dear Hawk,
I do not want to be exposed to any flesh in public -or in private.
I think I will just go about my daily life with my eyes closed.
Salaam.
Sajda.
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Peace,
My dear Hawk,
I do not want to be exposed to any flesh in public -or in private.
I think I will just go about my daily life with my eyes closed.
Salaam.
Sajda.
Peace Sajda,
Please don't do that! You could bump into, fall into, slip into, danger. Besides I would miss your humor.
God bless
peace
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Ah, I am sure there are plenty of my fellow country folk who would be more than happy to take my place and indulge you with the facetious, dry wit which is so characteristic of our nation.
Signing off....
"Rule Britannia", "God save the Queen" and all of that nonsense.
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My fiance and i are going to hawaii so we can spent lovely time together but she want to wear a bikini but she thinks is haram and she is going to hell for it i tell her is okay go ahead and wear it but she thinks it isnt right but she also want to wear it but feel like is not right for her to do so. and to be honest i want to be at the beach in hawaii with her so do you think is wrong for her to wear it do you think God himself is going to punish her for doing that i myself dont see anything wrong with that she's not naked for God sake
He thus duped them with lies. As soon as they tasted the tree, their bodies became visible to them, and they tried to cover themselves with the leaves of Paradise. Their Lord called upon them "Did I not enjoin you from that tree, and warn you that the devil is your most ardent enemy?"
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So according to that very reasonable reading of yours, the prohibition for the wives of the prophet to marry after his death was not meant for them but for today's women. And all this so that the women in this century don't wear bikinis. So why does it address the prophet's wives if it is irrelevant and not address instead the women in general? Are the Prophet's wives going to have a second coming now these days, these very days you say are meant, -not those days back then-, to teach us women whatever you want them to teach us? Talking about weird.
And you did not give an answer to a question a asked concerning this. And there is nothing I can do for mysoginists, except pity them. Do not ressort to such mean dialectics as to accuse of dismissing the Qur'an those who disagree with YOUR ideas.
You spoke about an interesting exchange, but there is no exchange.
Peace,
- O followers of the Book! indeed Our Apostle has come to you making clear to you much of what you dismissed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah.
So the apostles are right here with you in multiple numbers in as many existing lingua spread all over the world. You shall identify them as your kin, only if you have individual understanding of the ayats without borrowing and believing hearsay but only when you pay attention only to what Allah says.
Do you see now it is pertinent to say you cannot marry your Mothers who would always be there as the apostles are always there, till the end of the world? What is now your question to which I was dodging? Would you still dismiss the ayats? Is it a mean dialectic still though I did not mean to be mean?
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Now the prophets (nabi) become apostles and they are anonymous and we have to go around picking the mothers of those who will teach just us women whatever you say?
Well, if it is a question about picking apostles, do not worry, I am well served with apostles, men and women, who teach virtue and not senseless principles of injustice like what you expound on this thread. It is a pity that what you write reflects the women=sin obssession that threatens to turn all muslim societies into ugly environments hostile to women, common sense and divine light. Real apostles do not teach such hopelessness.
Marry our mothers? No man, I am not going to marry my mothers. An d there are in the very Qur'an women who teach without having to have a prophet husband and wives of prophets that were not called mothers of the believers, indeed all except the ones meant in that aya. If anything, the Qur'an teaches that each person, man or woman, is responsible for him or herself, their association, as spouse or lack of it does not change anything. The wives of the prophet are given to choose. And they did choose. it is their choice, not the fact that they are anybody's wives what makes them mothers of the believers, believen men and believing women. And no command whatsover, none at all is given to them to be more mother of one sex than the other. They are mothers, because when they did have to choose, chose God. That we have to do, males and females and there is no difference whatsoever. "Muslim" men sick obssession with women and with punishing women for their own failures is not from God but from Shaytan. It is males who must be cured and get rid of the obsession and not females who must be shackled because of that Shaytanic obssession. They are blind and those who uphold their obssession and their blindness are cowards who are not up to the task of struggling for justice, who support opression and do not make any effort for the sake of their women, but who sacrifice their women rhather than fight. I can hardly think of anything more disgusting than trying to disguise that shocking cowardice under the word of God. Wht an afront!
And you keep your dirty dialectic of accusing of dismissing ayas. You seem to be dismissing a whole lot of ayas from sura an-Nur and making a mockery of them. We pretend to punish, out of your ?apostolic? knowledge, all the women of the earth as if they were a piece of dead wood that does not suffer or feel, and imprison them for life, in spite of the Qur'an saying that oppresion is worse than murder? You pretend to punish half human kind for no crime at all, just because of the obssession of a bunch of males who have lost their way? You intend that? Sure, that is justice, equity, fairness and above all tenderness for women. Man, am I moved. I certainly expect something else from men and I KNOW there are men who are not cowards, who take a stand, who out of their sense of loyalty and honour protect their women. Please, do not cheat us that we have to pander to the bunch of abusers that this male obssession makes of so many males. Women are not things. Are persons. You cannot place them here or there so you get rid of the need to treat them and deal with them with justice. And as males, the Qur'an imposes on you their portection, not their imprisonment but their protection.
As I said, I am not an idiot and I am old person and do not think for a second that I do not know how to distinguish a gentleman from rogue. To expect that both of them deserve the same treatment is spitting on the best qualities that the Qur'an enjoins. Rogue males want to be on top of the world and want that women are there for them but have no right whatsoever to be persons, independent persons themselves. Long live justice an equity!
As to the question I asked, it is there in the thread, if you did read my messages instead of using them as material to repeat over and over your own thing, you would have seen it.
Whatever the wives of the Prophet, the ones who were being talked to, might teach, surely it would not be injustice, ferocity with the most vulnerable, cruelty and abuse. Why don't you lock up males if they are the source of danger? Why do you lock up the victims? Because they are burdened with childbearing and cannot defend themselves? Can there be nything more shameful. Instead of honouring the wombs as God commands, we kick the wombs? The Qur'an teaches really that, that you punish the innocent and pat the guilty on the back?
Weird, very weird, and, please understand that I do not take it except as the ideas that come from sick obssession an distortion.
And after this, since you keep repeating the same thing over and over but give no reason, no foundation, except your own unwarranted and groundless interpretation of ayas which are quite clear without your creativeness, and since those injunctions you come up with are totally against the spirit and the letter of the Qur'an, I am not going to keep posting, in turn, over and over the same thing. It would not be fair to readers. If I have the time, the strength and the clarity of mind to bring up something new I may write, but just to keep the ping pong going I will not.
Just one more thing you might post the names of some actual and alive wives of apostles that might be mothers of the believers today, and recommend them to their sons. There is a lot they should teach them. They are far more in need than their daughters. Their sons have completely gone wild, they certainly can take a rest teaching women, if it is not some martial arts for self defence in harass and raping countries. ?Ah! And also warn them that, should their husband apostle die, they cannot marry again, even if they are 18 years old.
So girls watch out when you marry whether you marry an apostle or a common man. Since there are so many, you run that risk.
Come to think of it, widow burning might be a good idea after all, right?
Salaam
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peace
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, these links are of men and women in bikinis,
appropriate in public?
You decide.I decided that a bikini or bathing suit is appropriate on a beach or at a swimming pool. Going swimming in a full body suit does not make sense to me, nor is it fun.
sun
Btw., this is the kind of bathing suit the original poster was referring to. Apart from the fact that the model is horribly emaciated I can't see anything "inappropriate" in the picture.Link to bathing suit.
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He thus duped them with lies. As soon as they tasted the tree, their bodies became visible to them, and they tried to cover themselves with the leaves of Paradise.
Wouldn't covering your private parts with leaves be the equivalent of a bikini?
http//www7.pic-upload.de/15.12.13/rny1cueopuuv.jpg
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The red part needs clarification; I do not get what you mean by that statement. Are there provisions of exceptions to drinking and gambling too, as you had said in the matter of sex ?
Peace ? it means as stated; lifestyle of drinking, gambling, and/or having sex with all sorts lead to failure.
2431 ... that may you succeeding
590 ... that may you succeedingI don't understand your question on exceptions (i.e. does not follow a rule) to drinking and gambling?
2219 they asking you about the inebriate and the gambling say in them both harm immense and benefits to the humankind and the harm of them both greater from benefit them both ...
1667 and from fruits the date palms and the grapes thou taking from it intoxicant of and provision of good surely in such surely sign for folk reasoning
4715 like the garden the one promise the righteous therein springs from water other than polluted and springs from milk not change taste its and springs from inebriate delicious to the drinkers...
The context is God says to the women folks about the wives of the Prophets that
- They are the wives of the Prophets
That is imprecise.
Address is to a prophet with particular circumstances at time of revelation not to or all the prophets.
3332 O womenfolk the prophet you are not as one from the womenfolk if thou fear/are mindful so not be soft in the speech so be moved with desire the one in heart his disease and say word of kindness of
3350 O you the prophet surely we made lawful we to you spouses your the ones whom thou gave rewards theirs and what possess thine right hand your from what bestowed the god upon you and daughters paternal uncles yours and daughters paternal aunts yours and daughters maternal uncles yours and daughters maternal aunts yours the ones whom migrated with you and lady believer if she devotes self-hers to the prophet if intended the prophet that thou marry her exclusively to you from besides the believers hence know we what made obligatory we on them in spouses theirs and what possess right hands theirs that not it being upon you critical and he is the god forgiver of merciful of
3352 not lawful to you the womenfolk from after and not that replace in them from spouses and supposing pleased you beauty theirs except what possess thine right your and he is the god on each thing watchful of
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Peace ? it means as stated; lifestyle of drinking, gambling, and/or having sex with all sorts lead to failure.
2431 ... that may you succeeding
590 ... that may you succeedingI don't understand your question on exceptions (i.e. does not follow a rule) to drinking and gambling?
Thanks, it is clear now - with such sorts one will end up in failure,
May the Gudie Lead Us All To Success.Salam
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Now the prophets (nabi) become apostles and they are anonymous and we have to go around picking the mothers of those who will teach just us women whatever you say?
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know this as they know their own sons. Those who have lost their own souls refuse therefore to believe.
Note those to whom Allah has given the Wisdom of the Book know as they know their own sons. You do not and cannot go around in bikini knowledge picking the mothers, prophets, messengers and such god chosen ones for the mankind.
Well, if it is a question about picking apostles, do not worry, I am well served with apostles, men and women, who teach virtue and not senseless principles of injustice like what you expound on this thread. It is a pity that what you write reflects the women=sin obssession that threatens to turn all muslim societies into ugly environments hostile to women, common sense and divine light. Real apostles do not teach such hopelessness.
The real apostles say this to the people
"And stay peacefully in your houses, and make not an ignorant display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular remembrance in the Names of Allah, and purify; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.
Marry our mothers? No man, I am not going to marry my mothers. An d there are in the very Qur'an women who teach without having to have a prophet husband and wives of prophets that were not called mothers of the believers, indeed all except the ones meant in that aya.
Yes the believing women shall say what they had received from the 'mothers' the wives of the prophets. You say the same to your children if you are of the ignorants. And do not marry your mothers; unless you follow the ayat closely, you will not be able to.
"Muslim" men sick obssession with women
Can you elaborate and explain the disease factor in women that causes such sickness in men? And nowadays in women as in the Lut community of gay women?
and with punishing women for their own failures is not from God but from Shaytan.
Force and punishment is against Quran. Just to say clearly while you yourself practise modesty.
And you keep your dirty dialectic of accusing of dismissing ayas. You seem to be dismissing a whole lot of ayas from sura an-Nur and making a mockery of them.
If you are truthful Quote from my posts where I had said of punishment to be given to women? And show your sincerity by quoting where I had mocked sura An-Nur?
out of your ?apostolic? knowledge, all the women of the earth as if they were a piece of dead wood that does not suffer or feel, and imprison them for life, in spite of the Qur'an saying that oppresion is worse than murder? You pretend to punish half human kind for no crime at all, just because of the obssession of a bunch of males who have lost their way? You intend that?
Write with reference and witness using my quotes as I am showing you here.
Sure, that is justice, equity, fairness and above all tenderness for women. Man, am I moved. I certainly expect something else from men and I KNOW there are men who are not cowards, who take a stand, who out of their sense of loyalty and honour protect their women.
You would go exposing the sickness like this http//salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/G311B.jpg
and men should be heroes against the villains? Great justice.Please, do not cheat us that we have to pander to the bunch of abusers that this male obssession makes of so many males. Women are not things. Are persons. You cannot place them here or there so you get rid of the need to treat them and deal with them with justice.
Uptil this I do not remember having written one single abusive word on women as you abuse and that shows who is dealing with just.
And as males, the Qur'an imposes on you their portection, not their imprisonment but their protection.
I do not speak about punishment at all. About men being protective over women is what the whole thread is about. And I am at it.
As I said, I am not an idiot and I am old person and do not think for a second that I do not know how to distinguish a gentleman from rogue.
It does not need to be really a matter whether you are an old woman or an idiot. Be reassured. I am only saying never be abusive as you differentiate respectable ladies and gentlemen from rogue females and males.
As to the question I asked, it is there in the thread, if you did read my messages instead of using them as material to repeat over and over your own thing, you would have seen it.
If it requires patience on me to make you understand I do not mind for Allah's sake to keep reminding you over and over, again and again until you remember.
Whatever the wives of the Prophet, the ones who were being talked to, might teach, surely it would not be injustice, ferocity with the most vulnerable, cruelty and abuse. Why don't you lock up males if they are the source of danger?
Lock up the source of danger? http//salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/G311B.jpg
The bewitching says this, isn't it? ' Hey, stop being a prude and a coward. I know you can't lock it up long in your bikini. Common we are all bikinis after all. W are all just one step short being Adam and Eve. You know there is nothing wrong in being children of Adam. Let us eat the forbidden fruits bananas, oranges, melons, mangoes and what not...'Why do you lock up the victims?
???
Weird, very weird, and, please understand that I do not take it except as the ideas that come from sick obssession an distortion.
???
And after this, since you keep repeating the same thing over and over but give no reason, no foundation, except your own unwarranted and groundless interpretation of ayas which are quite clear without your creativeness, and since those injunctions you come up with are totally against the spirit and the letter of the Qur'an, I am not going to keep posting, in turn, over and over the same thing.
But there are certain things to repeat and repeat as long as you are patient with me. Patience is good.
Just one more thing you might post the names of some actual and alive wives of apostles that might be mothers of the believers today, and recommend them to their sons. There is a lot they should teach them. They are far more in need than their daughters. Their sons have completely gone wild,
At this? http//salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/G311B.jpg
Very bad sons. They should be striped sister.they certainly can take a rest teaching women, if it is not some martial arts for self defence in harass and raping countries. ?Ah! And also warn them that, should their husband apostle die, they cannot marry again, even if they are 18 years old.
Allah would take care of his apostles from them all. http//salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/G311B.jpg
Peace
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The bewitching says this, isn't it? ' Hey, stop being a prude and a coward. I know you can't lock it up long in your bikini. Common we are all bikinis after all. W are all just one step short being Adam and Eve. You know there is nothing wrong in being children of Adam. Let us eat the forbidden fruits bananas, oranges, melons, mangoes and what not...'
what on earth...? It's alright to just tell us you really liked that image drfazl...no need to spam the link or bring in fruit salads and/or Tarzan/Jane allegories. How about this one? Does this not suit your fancy or raise your ire as much as the woman? The other link has some dim camera work, otherwise better model in my humble opinion even if he does look a bit like Derek Zoolander. -
what on earth...? It's alright to just tell us you really liked that image drfazl...no need to spam the link or bring in fruit salads and/or Tarzan/Jane allegories. How about this one? Does this not suit your fancy or raise your ire as much as the woman? The other link has some dim camera work, otherwise better model in my humble opinion even if he does look a bit like Derek Zoolander.
4912 "O you who have faith! Avoid most guesswork about one another for, behold, some of such guesswork is in itself a sin; -
Savage carrot, I have neither fancy nor do I have any ire towards 99% nudity in men or women. I simply say what my feel about it is good or bad - by this need not be taken as a forceful accusation for I am not a mullah of Sunni nor a Muslim of any kind on earth. Yet my feel goes in line with the Book and I express it out as my feel is strengthened by the verses. That is it. I do not belong to your Lut kind as you imagine me to be. There is no spam here nor there is allegory here. Just read straight; think straight. Thanks for coming out against me after a long time.
4912 "- and do not spy upon one another, and neither allow your?selves to speak ill of one another behind your backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, you would loathe it! And be conscious of God. Verily, God is an accep?tor of repentance, a dispenser of grace!"
Peace
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Answering drfazl,
Salaam
Again you repeat yourself.
At the very beginning of my intervention in the thread I think I made it clear that there are different kinds of bikini, which you also may confuse, either inadvertently or deliberately, with tangas or whatever, and that, speaking about bikinis, I was meaning those that are proper.
But you automatically ignore those things that are said but which do not help your own aim. Not unexpected in this kind of debate.
So, I am not going to check your stores. I am not in the least interested in fashion, least of all on sexy fashion, and I am not going to make an exception now in order to follow you in the exam of those awful temptations. I know there are things like that around, as I know that there are houses, streets, open places all over the world, including private houses, where "gentlemen", virtuous men" go to use women as meat, as dead flesh, through payment. Your pointing at stores and dressing styles that may seem disgusting tosome people is but another trick to mix the good with the bad, and then brand all women as a source of evil.
Your way of confusing things that to every sane person are clear, mixing what is honest behaviour with other behaviours or personal images that are more doubtful, goes to show your dishonesty in the argument. You want to win the argument, you do not want to bring haigher moral standing. Your end point is forcing women to accept what you want to impose them, not to make people purer. Dirtying women is not going to make anybody purer, only dishonour the whole of makind.
Summing up, we all know, all men and all women know what a bikini is. Please do not be so ridiculous as to come to a forum at this time and age to teach the crowd what a bikini is or looks like, nor play at confusing it with tangas Topless, colaless and the rest. You cannot do that seriously except, again, in order to win an argument by hook or crook.
Your catalogues can quietly sleep in their webpages. I am not going to disturb them. I know what a bikini is and know how I want to dress myself for the water. And if any woman at all wants to dress for the gallery I do not have anything to tell her save that, for her own good, she shouldn't dress or adopt any attitude for that but rather dress and do for her own comfort and well being according to the wise, merciful, honourable and truthful Qur'an, and that is what aya 24.31 is about.
If you want peruse catalogues of women fashion and pick from them the most indecent illustration as a weapon, it is up to you, I am not responsible for you. I am speaking as truthfully as I can. That is your problem and your disease. It is not mine. You are playing dirty with words and catalogues and principles and you know it. Either that or you are very deceived.
The above does not change a thing to the fact that the word "modesty" is being used and abused in a war by male rogueness to subyugate women. It is a shaytanic war, where force, brute force wants to assert its superiority over morals and wisdom and justice and friendship and compassion. It is a diesease, it is not an honest battle. It is an evil obssession that justifies ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING, in your words, even life imprisonment for women. For many others, it may come to justify murder, which in fact, as the Qur'an says, it is not as bad as opression. Disguise it as you will, abuse "modesty" to the point of making it meaningless, your battle is an evil battle, a very dishonourable battle, damned by God in a number of ayas of surat an-Nur where you are told, for today to, that those acts, slandering women, nomatter under which guise, will land you in damnation and horrible punishment in this life and in the next.
No matter how clever you get at words, you cannot disguise that travesty, that crime against humanity, against a whole sex and a good part of the other many of the other, and turn the tables to blame the victim.
It is high time that men recover their honour and PROTECT women without exacting tyrany over them in the exchange. The exchange is clear in 4.34. Men protect women, take care of them and good women keep and bear the progeny and keep the linneage. And the pure way to God for societies to attain to that is through friendship and compassion. Anything else is demeaning to both of them, women or men. Any tricks are dishonourable. No hiding under "modesty" to play games of power.
You wrong yourself when you keep insulting honest women (and their men), attributing to them what YOU DO NOT KNOW (24.9-2. Man, what you say is evil. Do you really, honnestly hope to get a reward for that?
When you dishonour women and slander them, you are spitting yourself on the face. You do not show any compassion, your words are cold and cruel, and the reflect in is that of dirt and obssession.
Honour the wombs, do not slander them, yuo will not be rewarded for that and the word ?"modesty" is no magic word to open the gates of power, no matter how pwerful you feel when you bludgeon women and common sense with it.
You are powerless, you are not God, not even over women. All the points you win in this championship for words to power will turn against you and against those who use them. Good only is full submission to the Divine purity.
Do not forget that the first thing you have known in this world is a female's nudity, your mother's. And your mother is not yours, no woman is yours. You own nothing, you owe everything. Do not trample on the first thing you felt in this world, do not trample on any being that is the first thing a new born feels on this earth. Do not do that. That is damning. Do not opress it. That is damning. Women are not your enemies. You are your enemy.
Clothing is not for punishment, clothing is for dignity and comfort that is what the Qur'an says. It does not says that for women it is a punishment. You are in love with your own ideas and words. Too much in love with that to the point that you do play dirty with those words to win over the argument. If you do win the argument, and I am sure you will with a lot of people, you will win it against yourself, and you may feel that you win it over many women, but always you will win it against yourself, you will be putting a new nail on your spiritual coffin.
I am a mother and grondmother, and I am not the least imposed by self saintness. I am too much interested in the moral and spiritual wellbeing of my offspring to teach them, under the guise of modesty, the kind of inmoral and cruel, dirty mind tricks whereby it may be attractive to approve the enslavement of more than half human kind to the whim of self-deceived rogues.
Love between men and women, not just sexual love, friendship, comradeship, mutual respect, mutual consideration and helpfulness, healthy, pure enjoyment of the humble pleasures of life is a garden, a real garden, the one we are promised. Do not forget that those who atain to the Janna will say we already tasted of this. With your twisted vision of women you are spoiling the garden here and beyond. Companionship between males and females, also in the beach, is beatiful, is educative, is pure and joyful. ?Can you imagina anything purer that the learning of mutual admiration through respect, care, gentleness, helpfulness and enjoyment pure enjoyment of beauty?. The beauty of things and of persons who think and feel pure, that is only a dim reflection of God's beauty. Do want people to worship God only through terror? Do you want to hide the beauty which is pure and a gift of God? If you hide that that is the surest way to deatroy souls.
Salaam
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I do not belong to your Lut kind as you imagine me to be.
Is that why you didn't spam post that one? Don't worry, you won't catch the lut from looking. Now, what exactly is 'your Lut kind'? Please clarify and with evidence. Thanks. -
Excellent post huruf!
peace
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Peace all.
What we understand from the thread so far is the following
*Women should not strike with their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments (2431)
*The advice from (2431) is to be abolished while on the beach for some of the believing women
*Being half-naked or 70-90% naked infront of disbelieving men and women is okay and believing men should protect their women from "evil".The question that arises now is how do believing men protect their women other than telling them to stay away from the beach where most people are half-naked? Should we kill all disbelievers to keep them away from the beach where some believing women wishes to be naked on?
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Is that why you didn't spam post that one? Don't worry, you won't catch the lut from looking. Now, what exactly is 'your Lut kind'? Please clarify and with evidence. Thanks.
Read the ayats of Lut in Quran for evidence, witness and clarity. And you will know it is not spam post.