Refutation Against Quran Part 1

GODsubmitter

???

mmkhan

Shalom/Salaam/Peace

This is my first thread as an agnostic

Peace,

Question/Facts

22 That (Ndalika) is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.

Strange facts!! God sent his wahy to Muhammad with oral transmission, and according to the facts, the Koran had been recorded as a Book after the revelation of wahy are completed.So what's the Book in that verse mentions too??

Torah?? Gospel?? Or maybe that Book suddenly felt down from the sky then God said 22 to Muhammad??
Please give me some proofs about that??

Red This part is a lie on Allah, so you are having difficulty in understanding it.

231 And He taught Adam the names (Al asma) of all things, then He displayed them to the angels and said ?Inform Me of the names of these if you are truthful.?

What names/ asma??

If you're a clerics then your student ask you, "which names in that verse mention to??"How do yu answers?? Using assumption like putting another words to that verse like this

Muhammad Sarwer
"He taught Adam all the names. Then He introduced (some intelligent beings) to the angels, asking them to tell Him the names of these beings, if the angels were true to their claim (that they more deserved to be His deputies on earth)."

Ism does not mean name.

What is Furqan in 254??
265 You have come to know who it was among you that transgressed the Sabbath, We said to them ?Be despicable apes!?

How we know and pratice Sabbath, if Quran order us to use Quran only?? (7750)
Disobey 7750 then read older narrations, follow what Judaik did,play assumptive, then became apes?? rotfl

Red Allah did not asked you to practice sabbath, so no question of becoming an ape.

Temporary this is the questions right now.If this solved I create the new.

Peace

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

unknownuser

@muslims, I don't ask about "What is Islam", but what is "The Book" in verse 22)

Allah says "the Book" has "no doubt".

http//s14.postimg.org/5dyisl7pt/index.jpg

Traslation Al Quran is true because written in Al Quran if Al Quran is true

I said many times like this in previous post.This is the mind pattern of some religious people.
Muslim will said if the Quran has no doubt, Christians will said if New Testament has no doubt.

Just saw me as not muslim anymore, saw me as a irreligion person who still newbie with Islam.

Red This part is a lie on Allah, so you are having difficulty in understanding it.

Is your statement backed by Allah?

Ism does not mean name.

then what?

Red Allah did not asked you to practice sabbath, so no question of becoming an ape.

God didn't sent his wahy withouth any reason, if not us to who Sabbath address to??

Mazhar

Shalom/Salaam/Peace

This is my first thread as an agnostic

Salamun alaika,

Please first study "How to read a book". Google and you will get the book for free download.

unknownuser

Salamun alaika,

Please first study "How to read a book". Google and you will get the book for free download.

Nice sarcasm.
I became agnostic not because I'm mentally ill, but after get discussion more deeply with sesame Quranist from my place.

Your haqeeqat.org is one of the main reason I start questioning Islam.

Man_of_Faith

Peace brother,

Shalom/Salaam/Peace

This is my first thread as an agnostic

Question/Facts

22 That (Ndalika) is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.

Strange facts!! God sent his wahy to Muhammad with oral transmission, and according to the facts, the Koran had been recorded as a Book after the revelation of wahy are completed.So what's the Book in that verse mentions too??

Torah?? Gospel?? Or maybe that Book suddenly felt down from the sky then God said 22 to Muhammad??
Please give me some proofs about that??

It is because kitab does not mean book but rather Message or information. It is why the whole book comes in a better light when you change the traditional interpretation. Check my Nearness and Guidance thread for more information. And it has been the same kitab all the time, i.e. the same Message or Knowledge. It is also why God uses ahl al-kitab to define those who received the Message in the past.

Qur'an is a reminder of the Message from the past and a guide for the reverent.

I went through chapter 2 with new inspiration and thus you can see some of my rambling in the Nearness and Guidance thread. You will notice that the passages make much better sense when you reconsider the meaning of kitab. Nevertheless its meaning is not entirely easy to translate I have found and it is a hybrid between Knowledge, Message or Information. You can say it is like the word 'ayah/ayat'.

Qur'an is a testimony of the Message and supposedly composed by God Himself but channeled by Muhammad to write down on some parchment or whatever the original material he wrote on was. Obviously the Qur'an we have in our hands can and are containing compilation errors but the Message overall is intact. We know that the original transcript did not contain those diacritical marks and those may cause confusion too now that people do not exactly know the meaning of the words and there is nothing to guarantee that the people who put the marks there understood it thoroughly either which we need to keep in mind.

Despite this Qur'an's Message is so God darn simple so as far as we know at this point is enough for us and any additional Knowledge is a bonus. Only parts where we could use some Light would be on the fasting parts and that which we dispute on because of the millennia long corruption of the Message. It is currently a work-in-progress, but I hope we have a good answer soon.

231 And He taught Adam the names (Al asma) of all things, then He displayed them to the angels and said ?Inform Me of the names of these if you are truthful.?

Is this verse from Qur'an causing you to question the authenticity of the Message? I think it is because we do not know the meaning of this verse and it ought not to turn us into disbelievers just because we do not understand it. I must admit I do not understand this verse myself despite that I consider myself quite enlightened about the Message.

265 You have come to know who it was among you that transgressed the Sabbath, We said to them ?Be despicable apes!?

This verse is perhaps not meant to be interpreted literally, or it should be interpreted literally. The people maybe had their brain power reduced and became inferior. It ought not to cause you to disbelieve in the authenticity of the Message. God could just say 'be' and someone turned into an ape. Or the verse says that they are to become LIKE despicable apes. Transgressed sabbath is like that they became unmindful of God despite having sworn by the Covenant of God.

Despite this I agree with you that the Message is not locked to the Qur'an but it is a bookless Message which can be understood without any physical sign like Qur'an.

God bless you

unknownuser

Salaam Man of Faith.

It is because kitab does not mean book but rather Message or information. It is why the whole book comes in a better light when you change the traditional interpretation.

Kitab literally means book, if we try change it's meaning then we will be end up like the traditionalist.

And it has been the same kitab all the time, i.e. the same Message or Knowledge. It is also why God uses ahl al-kitab to define those who received the Message in the past.

When u said saud "same akitab all the time", I found so many contradictions between Torah-Tanakh and the Quran.
You may already know if story of Abraham and Adam-Eve in Torah is different from the Quran.

Ahl -Kitab simply a people who uphold the Scripture, no matter they're Judaic, Christians, Zoroartian, Hindhu.
In Quranic contexs it refer to religionist who use previous Kitab during revelation of the Quran.

I already read your nearness thread multiple times, it's nice.

Is this verse from Qur'an causing you to question the authenticity of the Message? I think it is because we do not know the meaning of this verse and it ought not to turn us into disbelievers just because we do not understand it. I must admit I do not understand this verse myself despite that I consider myself quite enlightened about the Message.

Not only this, but too many and of it related to female dress.
Quran is full of allegorical verses and difficult phrases, Is God purposelly to made us confused??

See the fact, how many threads about salat, fasting and hajj in this forum.Some people even became confused about this.
Quran revealed many centuries ago, why people still confused how to hajj until know nope despite Quran is one of the short Scripture.

Just see Judaic,Christians and Hindhu, they have thick Scripture with many books written on it, but they're not probleming how to pray etc.

This verse is perhaps not meant to be interpreted literally, or it should be interpreted literally. The people maybe had their brain power reduced and became inferior. It ought not to cause you to disbelieve in the authenticity of the Message. God could just say 'be' and someone turned into an ape. Or the verse says that they are to become LIKE despicable apes. Transgressed sabbath is like that they became unmindful of God despite having sworn by the Covenant of God.

Too many allegorical verses in the Quran.Inteprete Quran is just like intepreted the poet.

Example "The sun suddenly fell to my body"
This sentence will have many intepretations, the only person who know it's real intepretation is the writer-self.
God also said in 37 if He only know the real allegorical (muttashabihat) verses in the Quran, by knowing this fact then why the God turned like Jesus so He can teach Quran to us, rather than keep sit in His arsy watching his creation puzzling Quranic verses for many centuries.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

I promise you. It does not mean book. It does not fit the context at all. This is why you find "errors" in Qur'an.

I understand it sounds absurd to you, but try to erase the focus on kitab as literally book and you will get a much better Light on the Message and the passages will be more coherent. I doubted myself in the beginning, but now I find it very obvious that it cannot literally mean book. Particularly some verses are more clear with the change of perception.

God bless you

muslims

@muslims, I don't ask about "What is Islam", but what is "The Book" in verse 22)

Where did I mentioned about Islam?

Obviously you don't care to read the issue presented, and just want to deny whatever in this thread.

Well then.. if you don't read or care for a real discussion, believe whatever you want to believe.. laugh

unknownuser

I promise you. It does not mean book. It does not fit the context at all. This is why you find "errors" in Qur'an.

I understand it sounds absurd to you, but try to erase the focus on kitab as literally book and you will get a much better Light on the Message and the passages will be more coherent. I doubted myself in the beginning, but now I find it very obvious that it cannot literally mean book. Particularly some verses are more clear with the change of perception.

Like I said too many intepretations I received from people.Even you see kitab as message it will still strange.
God said "That Kitab" to Muhammed, means God show Muhammad the object (kitab) which can be seen by him.

It's like I said to you, "Follow that message", means I point you a message which can be see by your eyes (written in PC, white board etc).

Where did I mentioned about Islam?
Obviously you don't care to read the issue presented, and just want to deny whatever in this thread.
Well then.. if you don't read or care for a real discussion, believe whatever you want to believe.. laugh

This is my thread, and I have authority on this.
I ask you what's kitab in 22 , then it seems you start play dumb like in gay and muslim thread ;D

muslims

This is my thread, and I have authority on this.
I ask you what's kitab in 22 , then it seems you start play dumb like in gay and muslim thread ;D

I might be interested to discuss with those who care to read and sharp enough to identify the issue. Sincere truth seeker.

Timur

Peace Earthdom.

22 That (Ndalika) is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.

That book is not the reading/ quran itself, the quran is only from that book. When refering to the quran, the God says this quran.

Strange facts!! God sent his wahy to Muhammad with oral transmission, and according to the facts, the Koran had been recorded as a Book after the revelation of wahy are completed.

According to which facts was the quran only written down after its last word was revealed to mankind?

231 And He taught Adam the names (Al asma) of all things, then He displayed them to the angels and said ?Inform Me of the names of these if you are truthful.?

What names/ asma??

God taught him the gift of language. This was a crucial point in the development of the human being.

What is Furqan in 254??

What are you talking about? Please clarify.

How we know and pratice Sabbath, if Quran order us to use Quran only?? (7750)
Disobey 7750 then read older narrations, follow what Judaik did,play assumptive, then became apes?? rotfl

An obligation for upholding the jewish sabbath cannot be found within the quran. Thus the sabbath should be regarded as one of those additional laws the Jews imposed on themselves.

unknownuser

I might be interested to discuss with those who care to read and sharp enough to identify the issue. Sincere truth seeker. laugh

It's u who always play dumb.Provoke people emotion so they will keep reciognize you.
This is my thread to discuss my issues, not your strange mindset.

Your definition of dumb will only made people felt dumb to themself.

muslims

It's u who always play dumb.Provoke people emotion so they will keep reciognize you.
This is my thread to discuss my issues, not your strange mindset.

Your definition of dumb will only made people felt dumb to themself.

How can that be... I thought you are the one who are playing dumb (refer here) and make an argument that gays are not subjected to the rules relating to private parts, and where every men are subjected to... Maybe now God revealed to public what is really inside your heart, believer or nonbeliever... and while you feel proud becoming the non believer (without realizing it). No more hiding, and good luck. laugh

Man_of_Faith

Peace Earthdom,

A Message can be abstract. The problem with humans is that they always want to see something concrete. Even to talk show you the Message does not have to be literally see an object.

Follow THE Message not that Message.

You can say let me show you the Message but it does not necessarily mean it is a concrete material. You ought to remember God is by no means restrained to a physical book.

Too many interpretations? Well. Try yourself to see kitab as something which does not have a definite concrete object.

I mean how much sense is it in people of the book? Of course it means those who follow the Message, the Knowledge from God.

If you keep translating kitab as books you will not reach a full understanding.

Decide yourself what kind of English translation you want but it is more of Information, Knowledge or Message in an abstract manner than a physical book, that I assure you.

Hope you can see this. It is not that I want to be dogmatic but only help. Wish more could see this fact. Do you not see the flaw in kitab as book?

God bless you

unknownuser

That book is not the reading/ quran itself, the quran is only from that book. When refering to the quran, the God says this quran.

So what'is that book? gaib/unseen??

The writer of the Quran gave some autharitarian verses like "Only Allah who know it's intepretation", "Only Allah who know the gaib".
This made Quranites only confusing regarding their Scriptures.See you @Timur how many years you follow Quranist, are you already know how to do hajj until know?

According to which facts was the quran only written down after its last word was revealed to mankind?

By reading some historical books.Or yu have some another arguments??

God taught him the gift of language. This was a crucial point in the development of the human being.

I already know, most of Quranites intepretate Quran by speculations.

Some person said that asma as being, some said name of Malaikat, and you said asma is language.
So which one is true, Is God purposely play puzzle to us for many centuries??

What are you talking about? Please clarify.

Please read your Arabic Quran.

An obligation for upholding the jewish sabbath cannot be found within the quran. Thus the sabbath should be regarded as one of those additional laws the Jews imposed on themselves.

I already examine verses bout Sabbat many times and absolutely it directed to us not only Bani Israel and Moses.

447 O you who have received the Book, believe in what We have sent down authenticating what is with you, before We cast down faces and turn them on their backs or curse them as the people of the Sabbath were cursed. And the will of God is always done.

16124 Indeed, the Sabbath was only decreed for those who had disputed in it, and your Lord will judge between them for that in which
they had disputed.

Now 16124 said Sabbath only for those dispute it.Btw who iis disputing Sabbath??

Or maybe it means if a person doesn't dispute Sabbath they aren't obligated to follow it, then if they dispute it they must follow Sabbat.
Hahaha what kind of religion is this rotfl

Man_of_Faith

Peace Earthdom,

I beg you to at least give my Nearness thread a chance and my perception. And you are right that the Message is so simple you barely need a bloody book. People in ancient times were guided; Abraham for example, no previous revelation from God was available and he was righteous and believed. He was so honest and good he discovered about God on his own.

I barely propagate the traditional Islam or Qur'an and you know it brother. I only want your best. The Kitab/Message IS NOT bound to Qur'an! It was just a reminder, enlightenment and sent as a mercy from God.

It is this thing I talk about in my thread and I only support your newfound views with my reports.

God bless you

unknownuser

How can that be... I thought you are the one who are playing dumb (refer here) and make an argument that gays are not subjected to the rules relating to private parts, and where every men are subjected to... Maybe now God revealed to public what is really inside your heart, believer or nonbeliever... and while you feel proud becoming the non believer (without realizing it). No more hiding, and good luck. laugh

I think you're not an adult muslims, maybe you're still young like or maybe unemployment colleger ;D
Why confuse dumb, waste times while I need my answer for this thread -X

Salaam Man of Faith.

If you keep translating kitab as books you will not reach a full understanding.

Decide yourself what kind of English translation you want but it is more of Information, Knowledge or Message in an abstract manner than a physical book, that I assure you.

I already answer this in previous post, pleas take a look again.

Too many interpretations? Well. Try yourself to see kitab as something which does not have a definite concrete object.

Quranist is non-denomational. Well I see this just a word right now.

Please take a look on salat-fasting-hajj threads see in there how many version of ritual?? east fasting, speak fasting, 2 days fasting, 1 month fasting, even no fasting and so so many theories.

This is which I called speculative religion rotfl and maybe Quranist is the most unique in Abraham monotheist hostory.

Non -denominational?If you now in area which can access youtube, please watch debate video between Farouk Peru and Edip Yuksel (19 follower).Just count how many loud accents used by speakers in there.

unknownuser

How can that be... I thought you are the one who are playing dumb (refer here) and make an argument that gays are not subjected to the rules relating to private parts, and where every men are subjected to... Maybe now God revealed to public what is really inside your heart, believer or nonbeliever... and while you feel proud becoming the non believer (without realizing it). No more hiding, and good luck. laugh

I think you're not an adult @muslims, maybe you're still young like me or maybe unemployment colleger ;D
Why confuse dumb, waste times while I need my answer for this thread -X