Refutation Against Quran Part 1
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Peace,
Thanks God, hawk99. yay
It is just the word 'Qur'an' that is particularly interesting as this seems to be the word that literally means book.
God bless you
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Shalom/Salaam/Peace
This is my first thread as an agnostic
Question/Facts
- 22 That (Ndalika) is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
Strange facts!! God sent his wahy to Muhammad with oral transmission, and according to the facts, the Koran had been recorded as a Book after the revelation of wahy are completed.So what's the Book in that verse mentions too??
Torah?? Gospel?? Or maybe that Book suddenly felt down from the sky then God said 22 to Muhammad??
Please give me some proofs about that??Good findings!
This verse can only make sense, if this was written by the author himself.
And the author are already in the state of mind of 'writing a book'.
This verse give a valid doubt to the truthfulness of how the Quran is being compiled which is a kind of a 'recording of what Muhammad heard from "his sources"/"Angel".- 231 And He taught Adam the names (Al asma) of all things, then He displayed them to the angels and said ?Inform Me of the names of these if you are truthful.?
What names/ asma??
If you're a clerics then your student ask you, "which names in that verse mention to??"How do yu answers?? Using assumption like putting another words to that verse like this
Muhammad Sarwer
"He taught Adam all the names. Then He introduced (some intelligent beings) to the angels, asking them to tell Him the names of these beings, if the angels were true to their claim (that they more deserved to be His deputies on earth)."This might be allegorical, the only reason why human invented "name" is due to the need of 'communicating with other beings through audio signal'.
"Name" is not needed if the being were communicating through 'telepathy'.
The being called "Angel" might not be communicating with each others through audio signal, thus they do not need any name or feel the need of it.- 265 You have come to know who it was among you that transgressed the Sabbath, We said to them ?Be despicable apes!?
How we know and pratice Sabbath, if Quran order us to use Quran only?? (7750)
Disobey 7750 then read older narrations, follow what Judaik did,play assumptive, then became apes?? rotflI said it before and I say it again here Quran is a JEWISH Book written in Arabic tongue.
The main intended audience of the Quran is clearly Jewish people.
The quoted verse above is among the evidence for that.That's why it mentioned many things which existed in Jewish Tradition and Culture and also mentioned stories which is popular to Jewish Folks.
A 7th century Chinese will be left dumbfounded when they hear stories about Moses, Sabbath, Solomon, Pharaoh, Abraham etc..
In similar manner as 7th century Jew/Arabs will be left dumbfounded when they hear stories about Kurukshetra, Hastinapur, Arjuna, Krishna and Pandava.If you change your mindset / point of view to be "Quran is a book with Jewish people as intended audience".
Then the above makes perfect sense.
"Be ye apes" if understood within Israeli/Jewish cultural context doesn't mean literally turned into apes yet it's a saying of "becoming Greedy" as Monkey/Ape is a symbol/saying of "Greediness" within Israeli/Jewish cultural context .
Again if it was addressed to the Chinese it shall not be understood as a 'curse' but as a "praise".
Because monkey is a symbol of "Cleverness" within Chinese cultural context.Salam / Peace
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peace all,
please look at Earthdom's signature. he got stuck @the second line
I'm an agnostic
When talking to me, please use Monotheist/FM translation for reference.but lets read the introduction (?) to 'The Qur'an - A Monotheist Translation' here http//free-minds.org/quran/
This work represents a translation of the divine words revealed in the Quran over 1,400 years ago and in no way is the translation itself divine or perfect. Any shortcomings are purely due to human error and the reader is always advised to independently verify what he/she reads as the only absolute truth is with God.
"And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for." (The Qur'an 1736)
so obviously, he has already pegged himself to the translated words, phrases and sentences of only that one particular translation. as such, previous attempts by some regarding the possibilities of some words, phrases and sentences having other potential meanings have always been futile. he is rigid and prejudiced/biased.
it may sound arrogant, but i wouldn't want to waste my limited online time with any person with such an attitude.
apologies wherever appropriate.
cheers!
mohammed noh -
peace all,
please look at Earthdom's signature. he got stuck @the second line
I'm an agnostic
When talking to me, please use Monotheist/FM translation for reference.but lets read the introduction (?) to 'The Qur'an - A Monotheist Translation' here http//free-minds.org/quran/
This work represents a translation of the divine words revealed in the Quran over 1,400 years ago and in no way is the translation itself divine or perfect. Any shortcomings are purely due to human error and the reader is always advised to independently verify what he/she reads as the only absolute truth is with God.
"And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for." (The Qur'an 1736)
so obviously, he has already pegged himself to the translated words, phrases and sentences of only that one particular translation. as such, previous attempts by some regarding the possibilities of some words, phrases and sentences having other potential meanings have always been futile. he is rigid and prejudiced/biased.
it may sound arrogant, but i wouldn't want to waste my limited online time with any person with such an attitude.
apologies wherever appropriate.
cheers!
mohammed nohPeace.
Maybe because he thinks that most translations use hadiths and traditional Islam doctrine instead of logic, honest and Arabic lexicons.
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Nice sarcasm.
I became agnostic not because I'm mentally ill, but after get discussion more deeply with sesame Quranist from my place.Your haqeeqat.org is one of the main reason I start questioning Islam.
No sarcasm. Sincere advice; "how to read a book" is truly meant for those who sincerely wish to get the communication; the author's voice in the book. I felt that you do not know the method of reading a non-fiction book, therefore, I suggested the above book in English.
If you know what a book is and how it is read, thereat, you will know the sublimity of Qur'aan even from the first line you started with.
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Good findings!
This verse can only make sense, if this was written by the author himself.
And the author are already in the state of mind of 'writing a book'.
This verse give a valid doubt to the truthfulness of how the Quran is being compiled which is a kind of a 'recording of what Muhammad heard from "his sources"/"Angel"Yeah I believe there is two sources came to "you"/"Muhammad".
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606071.msg343847#msg343847
I also not to believe if "you" in 2-2-4 actually Muhammad himself.
This verse can only make sense, if this was written by the author himself.
And the author are already in the state of mind of 'writing a book'.
This verse give a valid doubt to the truthfulness of how the Quran is being compiled which is a kind of a 'recording of what Muhammad heard from "his sources"/"Angel".I believe the Abrahamic credo is the Judaism itself.
There is no such like Christos and maybe Islam.Jesus himself during his lifetime practice Judaism, circumcised, etc.
The religion named Christos is manmade created by Barnabas and Paul in Antioch (read Act 1123-26).but lets read the introduction (?) to 'The Qur'an - A Monotheist Translation' here http//free-minds.org/quran/
This work represents a translation of the divine words revealed in the Quran over 1,400 years ago and in no way is the translation itself divine or perfect. Any shortcomings are purely due to human error and the reader is always advised to independently verify what he/she reads as the only absolute truth is with God
so obviously, he has already pegged himself to the translated words, phrases and sentences of only that one particular translation. as such, previous attempts by some regarding the possibilities of some words, phrases and sentences having other potential meanings have always been futile. he is rigid and prejudiced/biased.Abang Joe, you're offline for long time and suddenly came up without knowing the main issues in here.
Who'is plegged by that this translation? I use FM translation not because read the intrudiction, created by Quranist, but because I already examine this translation many months and I see this the most accurate one I ever seen.
Maybe because he thinks that most translations use hadiths and traditional Islam doctrine instead of logic, honest and Arabic lexicons.
Like
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I believe the Abrahamic credo is the Judaism itself.
You mean "Abrahamic Tradition"?
Human tradition is continuously evolving, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Judaism tradition has evolved to some extent that it will be different than Abraham's tradition.
Abraham never read the Torah/Tanakh, as Torah/Tanakh was not yet written during his lifetime, or go to Synagogue, celebrate Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah.Example Now you have a tradition of celebrating "Independence Day", and how and when the "Independence Day" is being celebrated varied across time and place.
And there's nothing wrong with that, and there's no such thing as "True Independence Day".There is no such like Christos and maybe Islam.Jesus himself during his lifetime practice Judaism, circumcised, etc.
The religion named Christos is manmade created by Barnabas and Paul in Antioch (read Act 1123-26).The religion named Christianity which later on declared as CATHOLIC (Latin for UNIVERSALLY AGREED from Greek ς was created by a bunch of Priest and APPROVED to shall be UNIVERSALLY ENFORCED within the empire by Roman Emperor named "Constantine the Great".
The religion named Islam was created by also a bunch of priest and gradually enforced by a Sultan/King/Caliph. The same pattern...
The truth is there's no such thing as God's religion / tradition, or in other words there's no such thing as one human religion / tradition approved by God and other religions / traditions are unapproved religion / tradition. The above mentality / view sprung up from human mental sickness of arrogance and superiority.
Salam / Peace
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Salaam everyone
Looks like this thread turned to be off topic.Now I will not respond anykind of posts which off topic, but I still appreciate the posts and read it, but just no reply
But please read my thread, so you know the issues we talking to.
As I said multiple times, Furqan is not book, is not source.Furqan or farqa literally means diference, diversity, distinguish and similiars.
Rather than about Moses, I have 2 more points
- God gave Furqaan to the believers including you (829)
- Furqan is name of a special day / Yawm Al Furqan (841)
So what is Furqan??
22 That is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous (muttaqin).
If yu're a muttaqin, you must see and read that Kitab right now, because it's your guidance book.
Ok this verse little bit pararelled with 2424 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
If I merged God said "That is the Book in which there is no doubt a guidance for the righteous (22)
Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the contact prayer, and from Our provisions to them they spend.(23)
and those who believe what was sent down to you (24)"If you read 22-4 carefully, that two red words is absolutely two different things.
Once again what is "that book", what is "sent down to you"??
I will create new thread about this, when this thread is solved.
Christian and Judaik have different intepretation regarding Sabbath.
So what is Sabath by using Quran Alone? Follow Judaik and Christian intepretation, reading their Scripture?? It's forbidden in Quran (read 7750)Quran Only?? I will try to re-thinking this term once again
What you say about Al-Furqan, Earthdom has not much to do with what I said about it. The Qur'an is the discernment, yes, but what I said is that you yourself do not show much discernment. I find your thoughts and "refutations" wholly confused. Discernment is the opposite of confusion. You cannot get any clarity out of anything if you yourself start out froma basis of confusion. You must decelerate, reflect quietly without haste, and you must refrain wholly from passing any judgement on anything till you get a more serene mind. We are not in a field race to anything. Understanding is not a race, but a stretch of peace where nothing compels us and our vision is unhurried, in a sense, contemplative. We just observe, watch and let things, the possibilities of words and meanings sink into us. Nobody can work effectively while somebody is whipping him or her to run here and there. Whipping our mind is not the way to get anywhere. We must le her have her peace to do its job properly.
But as Joe Betik says, the way you go about it right now does no promise great results.
Salaam
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peace all,
please look at Earthdom's signature. he got stuck @the second line
I'm an agnostic
When talking to me, please use Monotheist/FM translation for reference.but lets read the introduction (?) to 'The Qur'an - A Monotheist Translation' here http//free-minds.org/quran/
This work represents a translation of the divine words revealed in the Quran over 1,400 years ago and in no way is the translation itself divine or perfect. Any shortcomings are purely due to human error and the reader is always advised to independently verify what he/she reads as the only absolute truth is with God.
"And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for." (The Qur'an 1736)
so obviously, he has already pegged himself to the translated words, phrases and sentences of only that one particular translation. as such, previous attempts by some regarding the possibilities of some words, phrases and sentences having other potential meanings have always been futile. he is rigid and prejudiced/biased.
it may sound arrogant, but i wouldn't want to waste my limited online time with any person with such an attitude.
apologies wherever appropriate.
cheers!
mohammed nohAgreed,
When someone announces "I am kufr", I have no reason not to believe them, the debate is settled.
Like I said earlier, If God decides to guide you Earthdom, we will celebrate your submission/shahadah
together.God bless
peace
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This thread turned to be so damn off-topic.
Please, as I know so far only mmkhan and Timur who understand the issue.Please just answer my questions.
Peace
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Peace be with you, brother Earthdom.
I am going to answer the first three questions of yours out of the four. If you find my answers convincing, accept it, if not, then don?t accept it. Like one member pointed out to me, I don?t want it to seem like I?m trying to force my beliefs into you since that is not my intention and it never was.
- 22 That (Ndalika) is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
Strange facts!! God sent his wahy to Muhammad with oral transmission, and according to the facts, the Koran had been recorded as a Book after the revelation of wahy are completed.So what's the Book in that verse mentions too??
Torah?? Gospel?? Or maybe that Book suddenly felt down from the sky then God said 22 to Muhammad??
Please give me some proofs about that??Who told you this, brother? Who told you this "FACT" that the Quran was written down as a book AFTER the completion of revelation? Who, brother? Have you read the Quran properly? It seems like you haven?t.
People accused the prophet that he was WRITING down the Quran with his own hand
And they say Fables of the men of old which he has WRITTEN DOWN so that they are dictated to him morning and evening (255)
The Quran was written down by noble scribes at the time of the prophet
(It is) in sheets / pages held (greatly) in honour, Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy, (Written) by the hands of scribes, honourable and pious and just (8013-16)
Nun. By the Pen and the (Record) which (men) write (681)
Read in the name of your Lord Who created. He created man from a clot. Read and your Lord is Most Honourable, Who taught (to write) with the pen. Taught man what he knew not (961-5)
A messenger from God, RECITING PURIFIED PAGES. Wherein are laws (or decrees) right and straight (982-3)
Therefore, it is clear from the Quran that the revelations were being written down in scriptures by pen, hence God says "this book", i.e. the Quran.
22 That is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous (muttaqin).
If yu're a muttaqin, you must see and read that Kitab right now, because it's your guidance book.
Ok this verse little bit pararelled with 2424 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
If I merged God said "That is the Book in which there is no doubt a guidance for the righteous (22)
Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the contact prayer, and from Our provisions to them they spend.(23)
and those who believe what was sent down to you (24)"If you read 22-4 carefully, that two red words is absolutely two different things.
Once again what is "that book", what is "sent down to you"??
Brother, "that book" in 22 is the Quran. And it cannot be something else. If someone suggests something else other than the Quran, then it wouldn?t make sense. And why did you stop at 24? If you read a bit further it would become more clear. Here are the verses
21 Alif Lam Mim
22 This is the Book; there is no doubt in it. It is a guide for those who are mindful of God,
23 who believe in the unseen, and are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided them with;Now pause for a moment. What have you learned from the above three ayats? You have learned that Quran is a book where you shouldn?t have any doubt in it?s truthfulness, and it is a book for those who remember God often, who believe in the unseen, who are steadfast in prayer, and who does charity.
THEN God continues to say
24 those who believe in the revelation sent down to you (means the Quran) and in what was sent before you (means the Tawrat and the Injeel), and firmly believe in the life to come
25 they are the people who are rightly following their Lord and it is they who shall be successful.So where is the problem brother? Where? Where do you see any problem? The message is clear. Here "this book" means the Quran and it is for the righteous people who are mindful of God, and those who believe in it, in the previous scriptures and in the life to come, they will be the successful ones. Where is the problem, brother? What is it there in these clear sentences from God that you are unable understand? Don?t just read the Quran, pondering/reflecting/thinking/meditating on the verses is also essential.
- 231 And He taught Adam the names (Al asma) of all things, then He displayed them to the angels and said ?Inform Me of the names of these if you are truthful.?
What names/ asma??
If you're a clerics then your student ask you, "which names in that verse mention to??"How do yu answers?? Using assumption like putting another words to that verse like this
Muhammad Sarwer
"He taught Adam all the names. Then He introduced (some intelligent beings) to the angels, asking them to tell Him the names of these beings, if the angels were true to their claim (that they more deserved to be His deputies on earth).You are asking what names?
Okay, fine. Have read the story of the cave sleepers in chapter 18? If you have, can you answer me the questions below?
My questions are
How long did they sleep?
What disputes arose amongst the people as to their affair?
How many sleepers were there?
Now from verse 1865 can you tell me the name of the servant of God who was to teach Prophet Moses patience?
In verse 4028 we can see that a beautiful speech is delivered by an unnamed individual from the people of Pharaoh in favour of Prophet Moses. Can you tell me the name of that person?
Can you please tell me who is this unknown messenger in verse 16113?
Prophet Muhammad's adopted son?s name, Zaid, is found in 3337, but can you tell me what were the names of the wives of the prophet?
You see brother, none of us can answer any of the above questions, then where is the problem if we don?t know what those names were which Allah taught Adam? Is it really important for us to know what names Adam was taught? Is it necessary for our guidance or salvation?
There is much wisdom behind the silence of the Quran on such matters. The Quran is silent in a lot of matters intentionally, but this silence is not often appreciated by the readership. God knows very well what we need to know and what we don?t need to know. Therefore, there is no need to get upset about anything on which God decided to stay silent or raise questions that why didn't God tell us this and that.
- What is Furqan in 254??
Do you mean 253, because I can?t find any "furqan" in 254?
The furqan is the same book which Prophet Moses (pbuh) was given. Take a look at the verse
And We gave Moses the Book and the criterion, perhaps you would be guided (253)
Maybe you are confused because there is an "and" between the words "Book" and "criterion". However, the "and" in the middle does not make them two separate entities. This is a common usage in the Quran.
Here are a few examples
And certainly, We have given you seven of the oft-repeated AND the great Quran (1587)
The seven oft-repeated and the great Quran is the same thing even though there is an "and" in the middle.
In both of them (are) fruits AND date-palms AND pomegranates (556
Here you find the usage of "and" two times, but this does not mean that date-palms and pomegranates are not fruits. Date-palms and pomegranates are still fruits even though there is an "and" after the word fruit.
Regards.
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Peace be with you too, scribbler.
24 those who believe in the revelation sent down to you (means the Quran) and in what was sent before you (means the Tawrat and the Injeel), and firmly believe in the life to come
25 they are the people who are rightly following their Lord and it is they who shall be successful.So where is the problem brother? Where? Where do you see any problem? The message is clear. Here "this book" means the Quran and it is for the righteous people who are mindful of God, and those who believe in it, in the previous scriptures and in the life to come, they will be the successful ones. Where is the problem, brother? What is it there in these clear sentences from God that you are unable understand? Don?t just read the Quran, pondering/reflecting/thinking/meditating on the verses is also essential.
If I used your intepretation, then inputted into the translation, the result will became like this
22 That is Quran in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the
righteous.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the contact prayer, and
from Our provisions to them they spend.
24 And those who believe in what was sent down to you (Quran), and what
was sent down before you (Torah and Injeel), and regarding the Hereafter they are
certain.This sound make sense for ya?
Is this mean God revealed to Muhammad the Quran (22), while Muhammad already hold the Quran (24) ??
Do you mean 253, because I can?t find any "furqan" in 254?
The furqan is the same book which Prophet Moses (pbuh) was given. Take a look at the verse
And We gave Moses the Book and the criterion, perhaps you would be guided (253)
Maybe you are confused because there is an "and" between the words "Book" and "criterion". However, the "and" in the middle does not make them two separate entities. This is a common usage in the Quran.
Furqan literally doesn't mean book-criterion, it used in many cases which supported if Furqan actually doen't mean book or criterion.
Read in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606071.msg343847#msg343847
I agree with you regarding conjunctive "wa".It may also determine is wustha actually part of salat (223.
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Agreed,
When someone announces "I am kufr", I have no reason not to believe them, the debate is settled.
Like I said earlier, If God decides to guide you Earthdom, we will celebrate your submission/shahadah
together.God bless
peace
agreed.
and we should just let them be.
God be with you.
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This thread turned to be so damn off-topic.
Please, as I know so far only mmkhan and Timur who understand the issue.Please just answer my questions.
Peace
As for me I don't see any issue in you or on your 'refutation' )
What I see as the 'issue' are those in this forum who considered you as an 'issue'.From what I see here, you're refuting 'popular opinion' about God, Holy Tradition/Religion and Holy Relics (in this case a book), which I see as a good thing, a step forward from ignorance. Go on questioning, through questioning you shall find answer. And from that answer you shall came up with a whole bunch of new questions. That's just the way it supposed to be.
The more knowledgeable we are, the more we realized that we do not know so many things..
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The more knowledgeable we are, the more we realized that we do not know so many things..
Like
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As for me I don't see any issue in you or on your 'refutation' )
What I see as the 'issue' are those in this forum who considered you as an 'issue'.From what I see here, you're refuting 'popular opinion' about God, Holy Tradition/Religion and Holy Relics (in this case a book), which I see as a good thing, a step forward from ignorance. Go on questioning, through questioning you shall find answer. And from that answer you shall came up with a whole bunch of new questions. That's just the way it supposed to be.
The more knowledgeable we are, the more we realized that we do not know so many things..
salam Jafar,
pardon me please, but it was never us, as least never me, who started this topic. additionally it was never us, who made a personal declaration of faith.
declarations of faith (contrary to the majority) in public (this forum is public) are rare and far in between. but why make such a declaration? was a declaration ever demanded? really, where did it come from?
questions are necessary in every learning. who has said otherwise, pardon me?
so students ask questions because they did not have any, or full/complete, knowledge in a particular subject matter.
but when a person makes a personal declaration of faith, never would i ever consider that person to be a student anymore, because the person must have thought that he/she has enough knowledge to make such a declaration.
in 1736 we learn "And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for."
thus my earlier suggestion that the person in question, i.e. Earthdom, be ignored.
but yes, you wrote, "What I see as the 'issue' are those in this forum who considered you as an 'issue'."
apologies if my posting caused you to view that i am among the 'issue' you noted. i have no issue with that, as you are free to make whatever conclusion you want.
but allow me to presume that you never knew the truth behind my posting.
we learn in the Qur-an that 'prejudice' (thalim) has never led anyone to the truth.
the people/communities before past prophets were considered 'ommiy' or 'without prior knowledge' of the message (kitab) to be delivered by the prophets.
and all prophets were also known to be 'ommiy' or 'without prior knowledge' of the message (kitab) that they had to deliver.
in modern lingo, 'ommiy' might be likened to 'the 0-mind state'.
people familiar with the message is termed 'ahli alkitab'. but those who considered their knowledge to be the sole truth and sufficient enough for them are termed 'the prejudiced' (alththalimoon) for employing only one eye when they were given a pair. so in the Qur-an we also learn that some 'ahli alkitab' were also 'alkafiroon' (the disbelievers).
so prejudice is undeniably the biggest obstacle to learning. pre-conceived ideas deter the acquiring of new knowledge, and in as far as the Qur-an is concerned, the true/correct meanings (as meant by God) of words, phrases, sentences and ideas can never be acquired.
the only way to discover/attain truth (according to God) is to detach ourselves from our attachments, especially knowledge. perhaps we could learn a thing or two from this book by Tejguru Sirshree Tejparkhiji, titled 'Detachment from Attachment'. Download here please http//www.free-ebooks.net/ebook/Detachment-from-Attachment
but among the hardest challenge is to detach ourselves from our knowledge. perhaps we could learn a thing or two on unlearning from these websites
a. http//mithya.prasadkaipa.com/learning/whatunlearn.html
b. http//www.heleneblowers.info/2009/11/secret-to-learning-is-unlearning.htmlbut the choice is all up to each and everyone of us. and yes, it is never an issue to me even if you were to choose to be prejudiced.
but as i have posted earlier, it may sound arrogant, but i wouldn't want to waste my limited online time with any person with such an attitude.
apologies again wherever appropriate.
cheers!
mohammed noh -
Looks like this thread gonna be off topic right now and sorry for becaming rude, because I faced depression recently and smoke many cigarettes.
So once again if I rude please forgive me everyone.I will try to be patient once more and improve my englishMaybe some of you confused to read my, question so I will re-explain again step by step
22 "That (Zhalika) Alkitab in which there is no doubt guidance for righteaous.
23 Those who believe in the unseen, and hold the contact prayer, and
from Our provisions to them they spend.
24 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what
was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are
certain.-Who is you in 24? (If you think if "you"/"kum" is not Muhammad, you cannot answering the following questions)
-For you who think "kum"/"you" is Muhammad
This chronology of that verses
God show Muhammad an Al-Kitab (22) while himself already hold something from God (read phrase "maa unzila ilaykum" / what sent down to you in 24).-In phrase "maa unzila ilaykum", the word unzila/sent is pervect verb, means something already been done before.
I assume, Muhammad received two revelations, the Al Kitab (22) and "what was sent down to him" (24).
So what is Alkitab and what is "what was sent down to him"? Or maybe that two is the same thing??
NOTE According to @Man of Faith, Kitab in 22 is message http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605447.msg343931#msg343931
Peace be with you
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The "you" is not plural. It is one single person masculine.
Unzila is completed action.
I can see no contradiction, in that part of the total revelation to the nabi had already desended when this speech is addressed, but not all.
On the other hand I do not think it is a matter of "parts" or of This book or that book. It is the matter of revelation instead. All peoples have received revelations through their prophets. All people who believe in revelation do so in order to be guided, they believe that God reveals, because truth reveals itself. Revelation is a fact of life, so indeed those who believe in what is revealed, before or after, for those, "that book (or scripture)" is a guide where no doubt is contained.
It even does not matter that it is speaking about the Qur'an or about the whole set of revelations of all times, because they are the same. All prophets have brought the same revelation. The Qur'an simply is the known preserved revelation in its integrality, without amendments or inclusions or exclusions. So believing what it says, is believing all the revelations, which in esence are the same.
Salaam
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Peace huruf
Yes "you" is not plural and 99,99% it's Muhammad himself.
I never said there is contradictions in that verses, I just believe if Muhammad received two revelations.
Remember a member named @Al-Amyr, he also believe if Muhammad received the twos, one is Quran and the other one is AlKitab.Ok this is enough for Alkitab things, now I move to the next question.
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Now my second question.
253 And We gave Moses the Book and the criterion (Al Furqan), perhaps you would be guided.
Some people believe if Furqan is the book, message, criteon given by God to Moses.Is that so?
Furqan/Faqara literally means distinguish, diference, diversity.
While criterion in Arabic is "faysol" not "Furqan".So if you meet a person named Faysol, then it means the person who have decisive standart ).There is two points if Furqan is not book-criterion given to Moses
- God gave Furqaan to the believers (829), especially to you who claims to be believer.
- Furqaan is a name of special day/Yawm Al Furqan (841).
Question is What is Fuqaan actually??