A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily

The_Chimp

fftopic

Do you see anything else happening here? Having read his posts . . . I do not think Wakas is really up for a debate. In the mean time - might as well shoot the breeze.

Mazhar

The question is one of making complete Arabic sentence. An indefinite noun and a prepositional phrase do not make a good Arabic sentences. That is why you need the 'Salam' to be definite- 'al-Salam'.

Grand Qur'aan is the source to verify correctness of use of language Arabic.

Refer 654

is a complete nominal sentence; prepositional phrase relates to elided predicate.

The subject/topic of a nominal sentence can be indefinite in few situations; one is that of supplication or prayer as is the case in above sentences.

A read about ellipses/elisions also might enlighten.
Elipsis omission of implied word the omission of one or more words from a sentence, especially when what is omitted can be understood from the context.

unknownuser

Salaam

This is about pronoun/dhamir.

3alaykum/ and 3alayka/, both of this are true.

-kum/ is pronoun of antum, the plural form of "you".
-ka/ is pronoun of anta, the singular form of "you".

Also there is no called "Al Salam" , the word is syamsiyah alphabet, and all syamsiyah words don't use definite alif-lam, but alif with following huruf.

Example , the definite used in this word is Alif and sa' not Alif-lam.

Wakas

Do you see anything else happening here? Having read his posts . . . I do not think Wakas is really up for a debate. In the mean time - might as well shoot the breeze.

Careful you don't shoot yourself in the foot, in the meantime.

This challenge has been posted on multiple Quran-islam facebook groups also, but so far, only 3 takers (I'm not even sure good logic confirmed). I was hoping for more. I will give it a little longer, if not, 3 will have to do.

Timur

Also there is no called "Al Salam" , the word is syamsiyah alphabet, and all syamsiyah words don't use definite alif-lam, but alif with following huruf.

Huh? Alif-lam is always used, but the lam is not pronounced when the first letter of the word is a "sun letter". Hence is a correct arabic word (note salam is written without alif in the reading/"quran&quot.

The_Chimp

Careful you don't shoot yourself in the foot, in the meantime.

This challenge has been posted on multiple Quran-islam facebook groups also, but so far, only 3 takers (I'm not even sure good logic confirmed). I was hoping for more. I will give it a little longer, if not, 3 will have to do.

Nothing like a Jab Jibe to get a reaction!

There aint going to be many more . . . so either get on with it - or quit it, petal.

The_Chimp

Grand Qur'aan is the source to verify correctness of use of language Arabic.

Refer 654

is a complete nominal sentence; prepositional phrase relates to elided predicate.

The subject/topic of a nominal sentence can be indefinite in few situations; one is that of supplication or prayer as is the case in above sentences.

A read about ellipses/elisions also might enlighten.
Elipsis omission of implied word the omission of one or more words from a sentence, especially when what is omitted can be understood from the context.

prepositional phrase relates to elided predicate.

And herein lies your answer . . . and why is correct.

In your version Alikum relates NOT to an implied predicate but to Salamun the noun . . . hence it is not a complete sentence.

is a complete nominal sentence

No it isn't.

The subject/topic of a nominal sentence can be indefinite in few situations; one is that of supplication or prayer as is the case in above sentences.

This makes no sense at all . . . why would subject type dictate difference of grammar? The verse you give . . . is not a complete sentence.

The complete sentence is

The_Chimp

Grand Qur'aan is the source to verify correctness of use of language Arabic.

Refer 654

is a complete nominal sentence; prepositional phrase relates to elided predicate.

The subject/topic of a nominal sentence can be indefinite in few situations; one is that of supplication or prayer as is the case in above sentences.

A read about ellipses/elisions also might enlighten.
Elipsis omission of implied word the omission of one or more words from a sentence, especially when what is omitted can be understood from the context.

I think you are mentioning this just for effect - and do not know what you are talking about.

The_Chimp

Salaam

This is about pronoun/dhamir.

3alaykum/ and 3alayka/, both of this are true.

-kum/ is pronoun of antum, the plural form of "you".
-ka/ is pronoun of anta, the singular form of "you".

Also there is no called "Al Salam" , the word is syamsiyah alphabet, and all syamsiyah words don't use definite alif-lam, but alif with following huruf.

Example , the definite used in this word is Alif and sa' not Alif-lam.

Dearie, rest easy . . . I don't think even you would understand what you wrote.

Mazhar

True, lemmings wish not to listen.

The_Chimp

True, lemmings wish not to listen.

Mazhar

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.63a.gif

Timur

Peace Mazhar,

thank you, I know about the dagger-alif. But those dagger-alifs do not occur in early scriptures. Hence the correct spelling of salam is simply without alif. The dagger Alif is speculation about the correct pronounciation, in any case it is not part of the original word.

unknownuser

Huh? Alif-lam is always used, but the lam is not pronounced when the first letter of the word is a "sun letter". Hence is a correct arabic word (note salam is written without alif in the reading/"quran&quot.

So that's why there is no called "Al salam", because it's little bit strange if we pronounce it in Arabic language.
People mostly said "Assalamu alayka" not "Al salamu alayka"

Peace

GODsubmitter

Shall we get some more insights about the title of this thread "A challenge to those who claim Qur'an states 5 salat daily" please?

Thanx

Timur

Peace Earthdom.

So that's why there is no called "Al salam", because it's little bit strange if we pronounce it in Arabic language.
People mostly said "Assalamu alayka" not "Al salamu alayka"

That is correct. Spelling is Al-Salam, pronounciation As-Salam.

Mazhar

Peace Mazhar,

thank you, I know about the dagger-alif. But those dagger-alifs do not occur in early scriptures. Hence the correct spelling of salam is simply without alif. The dagger Alif is speculation about the correct pronounciation, in any case it is not part of the original word.

Salamun alaika;

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/59.gif (1)1338(2)1504=2

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/6.gif (1)289(2)515(3)868(4)2362(5)2729(6)4103(7)4612(6837(9)8309(10)8320=10

Timur

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/59.gif (1)1338(2)1504=2

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/6.gif (1)289(2)515(3)868(4)2362(5)2729(6)4103(7)4612(6837(9)8309(10)8320=10

Salamun alayka,

although we were talking about salam...

kitab is actually written without any alif in all occurences according to early manuscripts. Please check here

1338 (only examples)

http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=13
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=382 (2nd pge)
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=226
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=56

-1504 (only examples)

http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/4?handschrift=13
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/4?handschrift=382
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/4?handschrift=32
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index?sure=15&vers=4&handschrift=56&anzeigen=Anzeigen

I think this will do

unknownuser

There is no gains for dispute about existence of alif,because the languages will get changes/updates one century to another.

Please check Al Mushaf Al Imam in https//archive.org/details/Al-mushaf-Al-Imam
This Mushaf was collected by Khalifah Ustman and notice the alif-lam is exist in the word Kitab.

Wakas

peace all,

Flaws? Please find one in that article about five timings; for convenience a graph is even given therein.

For reference
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605766.msg336182#msg336182

Along with the above, this thread, again, perfectly demonstrates the problems
http//quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.msg1560#msg1560

I am confident anyone who supports 5 salat daily will inevitably run into these problems.