A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily

The_Chimp

Grand Qur'aan is the source to verify correctness of use of language Arabic.

Refer 654

is a complete nominal sentence; prepositional phrase relates to elided predicate.

The subject/topic of a nominal sentence can be indefinite in few situations; one is that of supplication or prayer as is the case in above sentences.

A read about ellipses/elisions also might enlighten.
Elipsis omission of implied word the omission of one or more words from a sentence, especially when what is omitted can be understood from the context.

I think you are mentioning this just for effect - and do not know what you are talking about.

The_Chimp

Salaam

This is about pronoun/dhamir.

3alaykum/ and 3alayka/, both of this are true.

-kum/ is pronoun of antum, the plural form of "you".
-ka/ is pronoun of anta, the singular form of "you".

Also there is no called "Al Salam" , the word is syamsiyah alphabet, and all syamsiyah words don't use definite alif-lam, but alif with following huruf.

Example , the definite used in this word is Alif and sa' not Alif-lam.

Dearie, rest easy . . . I don't think even you would understand what you wrote.

Mazhar

True, lemmings wish not to listen.

The_Chimp

True, lemmings wish not to listen.

Mazhar

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.63a.gif

Timur

Peace Mazhar,

thank you, I know about the dagger-alif. But those dagger-alifs do not occur in early scriptures. Hence the correct spelling of salam is simply without alif. The dagger Alif is speculation about the correct pronounciation, in any case it is not part of the original word.

unknownuser

Huh? Alif-lam is always used, but the lam is not pronounced when the first letter of the word is a "sun letter". Hence is a correct arabic word (note salam is written without alif in the reading/"quran&quot.

So that's why there is no called "Al salam", because it's little bit strange if we pronounce it in Arabic language.
People mostly said "Assalamu alayka" not "Al salamu alayka"

Peace

GODsubmitter

Shall we get some more insights about the title of this thread "A challenge to those who claim Qur'an states 5 salat daily" please?

Thanx

Timur

Peace Earthdom.

So that's why there is no called "Al salam", because it's little bit strange if we pronounce it in Arabic language.
People mostly said "Assalamu alayka" not "Al salamu alayka"

That is correct. Spelling is Al-Salam, pronounciation As-Salam.

Mazhar

Peace Mazhar,

thank you, I know about the dagger-alif. But those dagger-alifs do not occur in early scriptures. Hence the correct spelling of salam is simply without alif. The dagger Alif is speculation about the correct pronounciation, in any case it is not part of the original word.

Salamun alaika;

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/59.gif (1)1338(2)1504=2

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/6.gif (1)289(2)515(3)868(4)2362(5)2729(6)4103(7)4612(6837(9)8309(10)8320=10

Timur

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/59.gif (1)1338(2)1504=2

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0004.%20Kitab%20Kaaf%20Ta%20Ba/6.gif (1)289(2)515(3)868(4)2362(5)2729(6)4103(7)4612(6837(9)8309(10)8320=10

Salamun alayka,

although we were talking about salam...

kitab is actually written without any alif in all occurences according to early manuscripts. Please check here

1338 (only examples)

http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=13
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=382 (2nd pge)
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=226
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/38?handschrift=56

-1504 (only examples)

http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/4?handschrift=13
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/4?handschrift=382
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/4?handschrift=32
http//www.corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index?sure=15&vers=4&handschrift=56&anzeigen=Anzeigen

I think this will do

unknownuser

There is no gains for dispute about existence of alif,because the languages will get changes/updates one century to another.

Please check Al Mushaf Al Imam in https//archive.org/details/Al-mushaf-Al-Imam
This Mushaf was collected by Khalifah Ustman and notice the alif-lam is exist in the word Kitab.

Wakas

peace all,

Flaws? Please find one in that article about five timings; for convenience a graph is even given therein.

For reference
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605766.msg336182#msg336182

Along with the above, this thread, again, perfectly demonstrates the problems
http//quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.msg1560#msg1560

I am confident anyone who supports 5 salat daily will inevitably run into these problems.

Mazhar

peace all,

For reference
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605766.msg336182#msg336182

Response is still awaited on that thread.

good_logic

Peace Wakas, Mazhar, all.

I take a different view from those you conversed with.

With all due respect, I disagree with Wakas also. My view of 5 salat daily has the following explanation

We learn that our salat were confirmed in Quran. The elements that are dealt with in Quran are limited to the tone we use for prayer (17110), the basic steps of ablution and dry ablution (56), shortening the prayers and praying at war (4101-102), praying under unusual circumstances (2239), the times or periods of our five daily salat (2458, 1778, 2238, 11114), how we must observe them regularly and within their designated time frames (7034, 4103),. Any details concerning our salat that are not mentioned in Quran have been guarded and preserved and this is logically why they didn't get to be repeated in Quran.

Muhammad, the believers from among his community and their descendants served as witnesses to pass down and guard our rites including our salat. However, history repeated itself. Few hundred years after Muhammad's departure, Muslims started to inject their idol worshiping beliefs into the salat and they have been explicitly violating 7218 and 729 since then, dedicating their salat to their idols besides God. Following the unchangeable divine system of purifying and preserving our rites, God has sent another messenger, after a period of time, who purified and reconfirmed our salat to be devoted absolutely to God alone (519, 337, 381).

While God's message to humanity is inviting the world to abandon idolatry, worship God alone, and follow the preserved and authenticated word of God in Quran, Satan is at work to nullify this . We have been hearing his whispers and witnessing his desperate attempts of spreading doubts about the manner in which we observe our salat. He has been also disputing the number, the perids, the times, and the order of our salat.

Instead of feeling appreciative, content, and blessed we received and witnessed a messenger who purified and confirmed Quran, and put us back on the monotheistic path, some have been distracted by our ardent enemy. Despite the straightforward verses that spell out God's system of inheriting and preserving our rites, some have been caught up in the Satanic illusion that God would send a messenger to mislead the believers and pass down some wrong teachings in regard of salat- a precedent that DOES NOT exist in Quran. NO where in Quran we find a single example of a messenger who misguided the people or gave them wrong religious practices when their redemption relies on such practices. To the contrary, God assures the believers that His messengers are sent as a mercy to lead them out of darkness, assure their hearts, and teach them the rites to purify and redeem their souls (2150-151, 144-5, 2129, 3164, 622, 9103).

Believing in Quran mandates the belief in the words stated by God to teach us the above system of delivery, practice, inheritance, preservation, and confirmation of our rites through His messengers, His scriptures, and His witnesses. This system is a part of the complete, and perfect details of Quran. Ignoring this system, chosen and clarified by God, and hanging on personal wishes to argue about them after receiving God's guidance reflects our disbelief in the Quran, the lack of trust in its divinity, or the lack of trust in God and His systems.

I believe GOD sends messengers to confirm/clarify .

I hope this clarifies my view of 5 daily salat.

Peace to all

Wakas

peace good logic,

I take a different view from those you conversed with.

The above is your claim but both Mazhar and Joseph use the same verses as you to claim 5 daily salat

... the times or periods of our five daily salat (2458, 1778, 2238, 11114)...

In this thread I am only interested in the alleged 5 daily salat timings as per Quran, nothing else.

In this respect, it seems your view is either identical or differs only slightly. If I am wrong, I'd appreciate you highlighting exactly where you differ when it comes to the timings.

Scribbler

peace good logic,

The above is your claim but both Mazhar and Joseph use the same verses as you to claim 5 daily salat

In this thread I am only interested in the alleged 5 daily salat timings as per Quran, nothing else.

In this respect, it seems your view is either identical or differs only slightly. If I am wrong, I'd appreciate you highlighting exactly where you differ when it comes to the timings.

Dear Wakas,

Peace be with you.

Can you kindly share where exactly is your objection against brother Mazhar and Joseph's understanding of the five timings?

Regards.

Wakas

peace,

Can you kindly share where exactly is your objection against brother Mazhar and Joseph's understanding of the five timings?

Yes, see a few posts back in this thread, reply #42.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.msg345794#msg345794

Scribbler

peace,

Yes, see a few posts back in this thread, reply #42.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.msg345794#msg345794

Dear brother Wakas,

May peace be with you.

I have read the lengthy discussion between you and Joseph. In my humble view, I can't seem to reject brother Joseph's understanding of the timings, and neither can I outright reject your arguments, and honestly speaking, anyone of you could be right. I have noted that brother Joseph justifies the five timings with an understanding which is 'indirect', and you seem to be looking for explicit mention of the five timings. I think it is best if we can establish the salat five times a day as opposed to two times, since the more you do it, the better it will be for one's soul, no? But depending on our ability and current circumstances, I would conclude that we should do it at least two times a day, and a maximum of five times a day.

Regards.

good_logic

Peace Wakas;

FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME
I believe this is where God gave us the times for the Salat in the Quran

The Dawn salat (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
The Noon salat (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 1778 and 3018
The Afternoon salat ( or middle ) (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
The sunset salt (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
The Night salat (Isha in Arabic), given in 2458

Note These are time periods ( not names as some wrongly assume!!)of salat.

Peace to you