Whether need to believe Allah to be a Muslim?

muslims

correction reference for the above verse (4914-17)

A Muslim is an upright man... those who have great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way...

Ibrahim <- Ibrahim had no religion (madhab), so as Muhammad.. not a Jew or Christian.. ie. no religion
was not a Jew <- religion
nor a Christian

but he was (an) upright (man) <- upright man = showing a great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way
a Muslim <- a Muslim is define by the above ayat, ie. "an upright man"

and he was not one of the polytheists <- idolaters, sectarians

Most surely the nearest of people to Ibrahim
are those
who followed him
and this Prophet
and those who believe

and Allah is the guardian of the believers
(367-6

Israfeel

A Muslim is an upright man... those who have great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way...

Ibrahim <- Ibrahim had no religion (madhab), so as Muhammad.. not a Jew or Christian.. ie. no religion
was not a Jew <- religion
nor a Christian

but he was (an) upright (man) <- upright man = showing a great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way
a Muslim <- a Muslim is define by the above ayat, ie. "an upright man"

and he was not one of the polytheists <- idolaters, sectarianism

Most surely the nearest of people to Ibrahim
are those
who followed him
and this Prophet
and those who believe

and Allah is the guardian of the believers
(367-6

The question is, can a person be upright without believe in Allah? What does the Pure Quran say?

muslims

The question is, can a person be upright without believe in Allah? What does the Pure Quran say?

Yes.. if they obey the message about the deen (way of life) from the Quran . . .

and Allah does not lie when He make promises.

And if you obey Allah and His Messenger <- Allah say "if you obey". Allah does not say "if you believe"
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything <- including paradise, even without faith .. this is Allah's promise

Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." <- it is big mistake not to believe Allah, but Allah will forgive .. so it's okay !!!

Israfeel

Yes.. if they obey the message from the Quran . . .

and Allah does not lie when He make promises.

Logical question. Can you obey someone when you don't even believe in His existence? Answer from the Quran please.

muslims

Logical question. Can you obey someone when you don't even believe in His existence? Answer from the Quran please.

Yes.. you should read the first post.

The bedouins say,

"We have believed."
Say,

"You have not believed; <- faith is equal to "0"
but say
'We have submitted,' <- obedience, we hear.. and we obey
for faith has not yet entered your hearts <- faith is equal to "0" .. .ie. they don't believe in Allah etc.

And if you obey Allah and His Messenger <- Allah say "if you obey". Allah does not say "if you believe"
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything <- including paradise, even without faith .. this is Allah's promise

Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." <- it is big mistake not to believe Allah, but Allah will forgive .. so it's okay !!!

Allah clearly stated "if you obey", and that "for faith has not yet entered your hearts" . . . and ""You have not believed"

Israfeel

Yes.. you should read the first post.

Allah clearly stated "if you obey", and that "for faith has not yet entered your hearts" . . . and ""You have not believed"

So you have proposed that it is possible to obey Allah without even believing in His existence! Wow, how interesting.

Now according to Quran, Allah commands

O You who believe, Believe in Allah (Sura 4137)

Allah commands to believe in Allah. Logical question - how can someone who doesn't believe in Allah be considered obedient to Allah when Allah commands to believe in Him? Please answer from Quran.

muslims

O You who believe, Believe in Allah (Sura 4137)

Read again the ayat... and you should read the first post.

and therefore I'm raising the issue of the "minimum requirement" of becoming a Muslim

Who can enter faith? Allah.. Absolutely not within our prerogative. We obey, Allah will enter faith. We disobey, Allah will not enter faith. This is the deal and promise by Allah. It is something like buying and selling, and we need to have the capital (obedience and righteousness) to buy "faith" from Allah.

And had your Lord willed
those on earth would have believed
all of them entirely
Then, would you compel the people in order that they become believers?
(10.99)

I'm not proposing anything.. it is from the Quran.

And if you obey Allah and His Messenger <- Allah say "if you obey". Allah does not say "if you believe"
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything <- including paradise, even without faith .. this is Allah's promise

You don't agree with (4914-17)?

Give me an explanation of the ayat...

Israfeel

You say that the minimum requirement for being a Muslim does not include believing in Allah (when in fact that is the foundational and primary requirement for being a Muslim).

The Quran disagrees with your baseless assertion

Verily those who deny Allah and His Messenger, and wish to separate Allah from His Messengers, saying 'We believe in some and reject others' And those who wish to take a course midway. They are disbelievers in reality. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment. (Sura 4150-151)

So the Quran clearly says those who deny Allah are true disbelievers.

muslims

(Sura 4150-151)

Read again from 144.

O you who have believed
do not take the disbelievers as allies instead of the believers
Do you wish to give Allah against yourselves a clear case?
4144

Bring relevant verses... that show the "minimum requirement" and to include the requirement a Muslim need to believe in Allah etc.

muslims

Who is Muhammad?

I believe he is the most righteous person ever lived . . . and a True Believer

And indeed, you (Muhammad)
are of a great moral character
(684)

But and even if he believe in Allah . . .

. . . recite shahada perfectfully
. . . knows and speaks well in arabic
. . . perform salah
. . . pray in mosque
. . . pray every night to Allah
. . . perform hajj
. . . fasting for his entire life
. . . dzikr.. and never say bad things about people
. . . pay zakat and sadaqah all his property in the cause of Allah
. . . go to jihad and sacrifice himself to Allah
. . . study carefully all the revelations...
. . . and... bla... bla... bla...
. . . you name it, as one of the most righteous person ever lived...

He will not be a Muslim if disobey one "simple prohibition" not to eat that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned

And DO NOT eat

of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned
and that is most surely a transgression
and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends
that they should contend with you

and if you obey them

you (Muhammad) shall most surely be polytheists <- ie. not a Muslim
(6121)

Because Allah says "DO NOT" ! !

and it doesn't matter small or big prohibitions...

because disobeying one small prohibition means we will be the companions of the left, and thus guaranteed to the hellfire. Learn from Adam, disobey one small prohibition... he was automatically disqualified from heaven... so are we, because we are not better than Adam.

But DO NOT approach this tree"

He might be the best Believer, but if he "I'QTIQAD" (creed) to disobey Allah... he will not be a Muslim...

O you who have believed
fear Allah as He should be feared
and DO NOT die
except as Muslims
(3102-103)

To Believe and being a Muslim is two different issues...

and Allah only accept Muslim/Islam

with faith.. or without faith (0 faith)

And whoever seeks a "dnan" (&#1575 other than Islam
it will NEVER be accepted of him
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(385)

And if you obey Allah and His Messenger <- Allah say "if you obey". Allah does not say "if you believe"
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything <- including paradise, even without faith .. this is Allah's promise

I'm done and unless it is necessary, I be a silent reader on this topic so that people can discuss and express their views. If they wish.

diamantinehoneybunch

Muslim and Mumin are not the same things.

Timur

Peace!

Muslim and Mumin are not the same things.

Yeah, right, because a muslim is a peacemaker and a mumin is a believer. Believe is not required for being a muslim according to 4914, please see http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf

NielsJacob

Peace Timor

Yeah, right, because a muslim is a peacemaker and a mumin is a believer. Believe is not required for being a muslim according to 4914, please see http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf

Nice link. That made my day )

Do you know if there is more. Since I couldn?t find more.