I am God / Allah
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you sound very insecure
I think you should attack the message, rather than attacking the messenger and creating false accusations. . .
This is the issue of this thread and you seem to ignore every question relating to this verse from the beginning . . .
(112)
Allah is Ahad?
That is, Allah is Oneness
There is nothing in existence other than Him
Allah is Samad
A whole without any void or emptiness
nothing penetrates into it
nothing extends out from it
Allah has no boundary
Therefore, where can our existence that is other than the Ahad and Samad Allah be?
Inside or outside of Allah?
Pharaoh
Textbook case of projection as a defense mechanism. And it is so clearly you that has ignored every bit of even polite cross examination of your theories. Sorry, but I do attack YOUR message because of your know-it-all posture, and that is exactly what I did. What have I ignored? I answered your question the best I could despite not understanding what the heck you are getting at due to your constant contradictions-- to point them all out would be exhausting, and I doubt your ego could handle it. I don't agree with your paraphrasing of Al-Ikhlas that you are passing off as the only possible correct interpretation.
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And about Pharaoh, you are repeating the same nonsense of cherry picking now just a portion of an ayah to suit a point you didn't even need to make. Didn't you see the part of my response where I said that man's perception of Allah was falsely taught to humans by humans (pharaoh, et al) to be limited. Limited to that of a man as God = Pharaoh. He mocked the concept of a power higher than him because it threatened his position and his ego. Oh, the irony.....
Guess what, Allah doesn't need you to decide who violates or doesn't violate the rules of the Quran when it is clear that you have been proven dead wrong on the obvious. Someone like you just wants to obfuscate and waste time focusing on the mutashabihat that really isn't leading you anywhere.
The truth about Allah is clear in 6102 and 6103, as well as what precedes and follows. So unless you encompass all vision, you are not Allah.
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Dear brother,
That's also why the Israelite named Him/It as YHVH which means "He Who Is".
Due to the answer given to Moses question of "Who are you?" was "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" which means "I AM WHAT I AM" (the complete meanings is actually I WAS WHAT I WAS, I AM WHAT I AM, I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE),Thank you so much for this piece of information! I had not thought of this phrase from this point of view before. I have always been fascinated by the expression "I am that I am" that God said to Moses since I read it for the first time.
And God is , a static entity that is eternal and does not change. We are creations that are there, if we ought to say thanks to THE LORD, because of Him.
Nothing other than God is except if God wants it to be that way. God is an irreplaceable administrator and owner of his platform and better than a core of a Unix system. He is a completely separate being which must be seen as independent from all else yet in full control of events and limitless control ranging down on atom level. Yet we can never fathom the origin or why God exist because He simply exist and is eternal or . I have been pondering on that question but I guess I never get an answer to that one How God exists. It is far beyond our comprehension I think. It is difficult to accept that something simply exist out of nothing, but it is likely as simple as that. However, if something has no boundary and has always been there and cannot be destroyed (i.e ∞ then of course it can comfort one's logic.
It is here that we, those who believe, differ from those who are atheists because we accept that here in the control is an eternal and ultimately intelligent entity generally called God in English and which motives we cannot comprehend because it is beyond us. And this entity is not just in one location at one particular time but rather omnipresent. Compare 'the Force' in Star Wars (perhaps without the hocus pocus).
An amusing thing is that scientists agree that the Universe sprung into existence and is expanding and will likely implode again. The only thing is that they believe that the Universe can do that to itself on its own. That everything assemble into perfect creations without a background intelligence. Evolution has taken its time, but for God the history of the Universe is not really a long time and could be yesterday or rather it does not matter if it was now or "5932527587285728572853728572567263578263587285" years ago, it could be a moment's difference or faster then the flickering of an eye. I think one of the narrations of The Book (Qur'an) tries to imply that when one of the persons talk about time relations. If The Book was written today there would likely be modern scientific signs (which the majority would reject anyway).
And have you noted how much in this world is about circling around something? Attraction? Theory of relativity in its own niche, but how? Something causes this effect and it seems silly to not have a carrier. You have even seen light bent on gravity.
The modern answer to God you have in what we know of science. We are certainly spoiled with more signs than our ancestors who had no knowledge of such things.
Eastern religion is more concise on this matter, "Creation" and "Destruction" is an (endless) cycle, before nothing there was something and after that it will become nothing again and then something again and on and on and on.. symbolized by shape of a 'wheel'.
But in reality it's always 'the same'.Creation and Destruction - The same happens to most people, at least as they think. The Universe started expanding, humans are created with the expansion and we expand, more people are simultaneously on the Earth. There is a circle of life, from dust back to dust and then your soul is somehow preserved and there is the test. Those who failed to understand that God is really real they will be maybe be sorry, but worst out are those who associated partners with God such as their egos or idols. Those who are good by nature might be spared although that knowledge is with God.
God did not create all this just for play, so when the Universe was created God had a plan, so nothing says it will implode and then be restored into the same kind of physical world. It might be completely different next time and we have hints in The Book. There are maybe limitations in this system that are not there in the next version, version 2.0 if we are humorous, such as ability to control things with the mind or fully implemented teleportation or granting of wishes out of nothing. Science has actually begun to tickle on some occurrences of "source code" in God's world that can be used for such practices. But we can still not stop our physical bodies from aging but because it was made for this test people will likely not succeed, or they might prevent it for some time but not from the punishment of altering what God created. The test is not forever and we know it. Some people wish to live for a thousand years and there might be, in the end of the test, inventions that can make people live for longer than we live today 2014, let us say 1000 years through various techniques and medical breakthroughs. It will avail nothing though.
Maybe we are servants, those who are not in what is designated as Hell, for another round of tests of another creation?
Quote
Infinity is the idea of something that has no end . . but Allah said in the Quran that He created from "nothing"
"Nothing" as in "No such thing as recognized before from certain perspective".
Before there was no human now there's human. But there was some other being which shall (later on) become human.
Before there was no space in this universe now there's a space this universe.
But there was some other thing which shall (later on) become the space in this universe.
Thus it doesn't imply that before the state of "no space in this universe" there was truly nothing at all outside of this (uncreated) universe.Because we humans tend to only relate to what we can see and physically, but God can say 'be' and it is creating something out of thin air. It does not seem to even need a material source. Of course God could just change an o2 molecule into the matter needed for a human too. There are really no boundaries for God. He is the owner and administrator and the atoms in the world are just like the symbols we see in the Periodic System and God could just allegorically change the letter of an atom into something else if He wanted. Or like I said earlier just input something out of nothing.
We humans always think that you need something (matter) to create something, but God does not have those problems. And the Universe seems to expand from nothing.
But yet all we see is really an illusion which we think exists, and which feels darn real too and exists like a computer program that is running a virtual world... until "someone" pulls out the cord.
God is not 1 nor 2, you cannot use logic to refer to Him. God is just where 1 or 2 is irrelevant. Now I know you will twit me on the Oneness of God, but it does not change anything. God is One as in the only thing that can truly have any real power and is the foundation of existence and is infinite and thus eternal, and is omnipresent. God is One Unit which stands above creation yet is present everywhere at the same time.
One in the oneness of God is representing the sole power of one entity. God has everything within His hand as a good parable says. Humans are virtually powerless if God so wills even if we believe we are so high and mighty. The whole system including the bodies that we move are from what God created even our very souls. We act in a kind of video game and we can make our moves and we feel like we are in control which we are to an extent, but God has the last say in everything thus why a lesson of The Book is that you should not say that you do something tomorrow without saying "if God so wills/God willing" (enshallah). That is something you ought to keep in your mind. (allegorically speaking) God sits there at his command box and observes the action here in every detail and then He sees you do something that He likes and He types "change parameter fate edit action character Bobby Brown -> offer high-paying job to Mc Gee" (McGee = someone who is righteous and deserved a blessing). I understand my allegory was a bit dull, but it is the way God affects the running world.
God could if he wants also (allegorically) "additem McGee loc 2,5,6 -> tasty meal" and suddenly it pops up a real meal out of nothing at the site of a servant of God. When you said that God cannot do this angered me a little and that He only expresses Himself and also that you say "I am God". You or me or Jafar or anyone else are certainly not to be compared to the Creator.
In Truth it is easier than that and God can just "think" (in lack of a better word) something and it is wherever He wants it.
And thanks again Jafar for the previous thing I thanked you for. And I praise the Lord for enlightening you.
God bless you
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Salaam,
???
I believe you have to recheck your sources or you can experiment yourself to see why this is not true.salaam,
BenderI liked the try though bravo
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I don't agree with your paraphrasing of Al-Ikhlas that you are passing off as the only possible correct interpretation.
Peace sister,
It is true. That translation of is strange. The Sahih, Yusuf Ali and Monotheist all translate it differently and the rest of The Book does not support the logic.
But do not mind too much, do not waste so much energy where it is futile. I have walked into that trap before.
God bless you
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Peace all,
FM translation
209 And did the narrative of Moses come to you?
2010 When he saw a fire, he said to his family "Stay here, I have seen a fire, perhaps I can bring a piece from it, or find at the fire some guidance."
2011 So when he came to it he was called "O Moses."
2012 "I am your Lord, so take off your slippers; you are in the holy valley Tuwa."
2013 "And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired."
2014 "I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and hold the contact prayer for My remembrance."There is no mention of the talisman YHWH in the revelations of God.
Please use the criterion.
Peace -
Peace,
I think Jafar referred to an expression from the hadith of the Bible where Moses allegedly got the response from God upon the question what God is or so I think (forgot) and God replies " I am that I am". Pretty good analogy to describe God in my humble opinion. He simply is God. Truly God's expression or not; it is a pretty good one.
Edit Every single Communion (or prayer) with God by Moses is likely not recorded within The Book (Quran).
God bless you
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Imagine Moses saying the following
?I am who I am."
?I am has sent me to you.?Exodus 314-15
http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+3&version=NIVI do not agree that it is a good expression, it sounds very arrogant and stupid.
Peace -
Dear brother,
Thank you so much for this piece of information! I had not thought of this phrase from this point of view before. I have always been fascinated by the expression "I am that I am" that God said to Moses since I read it for the first time.
And God is , a static entity that is eternal and does not change. We are creations that are there, if we ought to say thanks to THE LORD, because of Him.
Nothing other than God is except if God wants it to be that way. God is an irreplaceable administrator and owner of his platform and better than a core of a Unix system. He is a completely separate being which must be seen as independent from all else yet in full control of events and limitless control ranging down on atom level. Yet we can never fathom the origin or why God exist because He simply exist and is eternal or . I have been pondering on that question but I guess I never get an answer to that one How God exists. It is far beyond our comprehension I think. It is difficult to accept that something simply exist out of nothing, but it is likely as simple as that. However, if something has no boundary and has always been there and cannot be destroyed (i.e ∞ then of course it can comfort one's logic.
It is here that we, those who believe, differ from those who are atheists because we accept that here in the control is an eternal and ultimately intelligent entity generally called God in English and which motives we cannot comprehend because it is beyond us. And this entity is not just in one location at one particular time but rather omnipresent. Compare 'the Force' in Star Wars (perhaps without the hocus pocus).
An amusing thing is that scientists agree that the Universe sprung into existence and is expanding and will likely implode again. The only thing is that they believe that the Universe can do that to itself on its own. That everything assemble into perfect creations without a background intelligence. Evolution has taken its time, but for God the history of the Universe is not really a long time and could be yesterday or rather it does not matter if it was now or "5932527587285728572853728572567263578263587285" years ago, it could be a moment's difference or faster then the flickering of an eye. I think one of the narrations of The Book (Qur'an) tries to imply that when one of the persons talk about time relations. If The Book was written today there would likely be modern scientific signs (which the majority would reject anyway).
And have you noted how much in this world is about circling around something? Attraction? Theory of relativity in its own niche, but how? Something causes this effect and it seems silly to not have a carrier. You have even seen light bent on gravity.
The modern answer to God you have in what we know of science. We are certainly spoiled with more signs than our ancestors who had no knowledge of such things.
Creation and Destruction - The same happens to most people, at least as they think. The Universe started expanding, humans are created with the expansion and we expand, more people are simultaneously on the Earth. There is a circle of life, from dust back to dust and then your soul is somehow preserved and there is the test. Those who failed to understand that God is really real they will be maybe be sorry, but worst out are those who associated partners with God such as their egos or idols. Those who are good by nature might be spared although that knowledge is with God.
God did not create all this just for play, so when the Universe was created God had a plan, so nothing says it will implode and then be restored into the same kind of physical world. It might be completely different next time and we have hints in The Book. There are maybe limitations in this system that are not there in the next version, version 2.0 if we are humorous, such as ability to control things with the mind or fully implemented teleportation or granting of wishes out of nothing. Science has actually begun to tickle on some occurrences of "source code" in God's world that can be used for such practices. But we can still not stop our physical bodies from aging but because it was made for this test people will likely not succeed, or they might prevent it for some time but not from the punishment of altering what God created. The test is not forever and we know it. Some people wish to live for a thousand years and there might be, in the end of the test, inventions that can make people live for longer than we live today 2014, let us say 1000 years through various techniques and medical breakthroughs. It will avail nothing though.
Maybe we are servants, those who are not in what is designated as Hell, for another round of tests of another creation?
Because we humans tend to only relate to what we can see and physically, but God can say 'be' and it is creating something out of thin air. It does not seem to even need a material source. Of course God could just change an o2 molecule into the matter needed for a human too. There are really no boundaries for God. He is the owner and administrator and the atoms in the world are just like the symbols we see in the Periodic System and God could just allegorically change the letter of an atom into something else if He wanted. Or like I said earlier just input something out of nothing.
We humans always think that you need something (matter) to create something, but God does not have those problems. And the Universe seems to expand from nothing.
But yet all we see is really an illusion which we think exists, and which feels darn real too and exists like a computer program that is running a virtual world... until "someone" pulls out the cord.
God is not 1 nor 2, you cannot use logic to refer to Him. God is just where 1 or 2 is irrelevant. Now I know you will twit me on the Oneness of God, but it does not change anything. God is One as in the only thing that can truly have any real power and is the foundation of existence and is infinite and thus eternal, and is omnipresent. God is One Unit which stands above creation yet is present everywhere at the same time.
One in the oneness of God is representing the sole power of one entity. God has everything within His hand as a good parable says. Humans are virtually powerless if God so wills even if we believe we are so high and mighty. The whole system including the bodies that we move are from what God created even our very souls. We act in a kind of video game and we can make our moves and we feel like we are in control which we are to an extent, but God has the last say in everything thus why a lesson of The Book is that you should not say that you do something tomorrow without saying "if God so wills/God willing" (enshallah). That is something you ought to keep in your mind. (allegorically speaking) God sits there at his command box and observes the action here in every detail and then He sees you do something that He likes and He types "change parameter fate edit action character Bobby Brown -> offer high-paying job to Mc Gee" (McGee = someone who is righteous and deserved a blessing). I understand my allegory was a bit dull, but it is the way God affects the running world.
God could if he wants also (allegorically) "additem McGee loc 2,5,6 -> tasty meal" and suddenly it pops up a real meal out of nothing at the site of a servant of God. When you said that God cannot do this angered me a little and that He only expresses Himself and also that you say "I am God". You or me or Jafar or anyone else are certainly not to be compared to the Creator.
In Truth it is easier than that and God can just "think" (in lack of a better word) something and it is wherever He wants it.
And thanks again Jafar for the previous thing I thanked you for. And I praise the Lord for enlightening you.
God bless you
For someone claiming to stick strictly with the Quran - you do sway away from it an awful lot. Another example.
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And about Pharaoh, you are repeating the same nonsense of cherry picking now just a portion of an ayah to suit a point you didn't even need to make.
It is nonsense when they acknowledge they are men like everyone else?
How can that be . . .
They said, "Should we believe two men like ourselves (ie. not god) while their people are for us in servitude?" (23.47)
Pharaoh is not about the issue of whether he is God . . . it is about the issue of Arbab and Thaghut.
Pharaoh said, "I do not show you
except what I see
and I do not guide you
except to the way of right conduct"
(4029)Pharaoh himself know that he is human . . he eats, he sleep, he was born like everyone else, he knows that he will die etc. .
So as everyone else . . they know these facts, and that's why they even acknowledge that he was a man like everyone else in (23.47)
men like ourselves (ie. not god) (23.47)
See? Everyone know that he is a man . . like everyone else, and therefore is not claiming himself as God
Now . . did Pharaoh believe in God ?
Yes . .
And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea
and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity
But when he was certain to drown, he said
"I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe
and I am of those who have surrendered (muslim)."
(10.90)Do you undertand the statement "I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe"?
It means he believe in gods and goddesses (God of Ra, the egyptian gods and goddesses etc.), but not Allah.
Do you have something useful that I can think of, other than using the ad hominem, fallacious arguments and hate speech?
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The only correct statement is God is God or Allah is Allah or in math
1 is not equal to , 2 is not equal to
but / = 1Given He/It has no comparison.
Therefore and since you said "1 is not equal to , 2 is not equal to " . . . (equally 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + . . . is not equal to ∞
and after taking into consideration that Allah is Samad (a whole without any void or emptiness) . .
The issue now is whether is bigger than 1 ?
It is so since 1 alone must have limit, or otherwise . . 1 must be treated as ; Samad . . .
ie. 1 = = Allah is Ahad and Samad (112)
Whose existence? your statement is confusing here..
Sorry . . . the video might explain why human beings still cannot prove their existence
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y
"Nothing" as in "No such thing as recognized before from certain perspective".
Before there was no human now there's human. But there was some other being which shall (later on) become human.
Before there was no space in this universe now there's a space this universe.
But there was some other thing which shall (later on) become the space in this universe.
Thus it doesn't imply that before the state of "no space in this universe" there was truly nothing at all outside of this (uncreated) universe.Eastern religion is more concise on this matter, "Creation" and "Destruction" is an (endless) cycle, before nothing there was something and after that it will become nothing again and then something again and on and on and on.. symbolized by shape of a 'wheel'.
But in reality it's always 'the same'.If you repeat the same question over and over again until there is only Allah, you will see that the results is still the same . . . ie. there was 1 and nothing (0)
Therefore the inference we can make there is 1 , and there is 0
and that's why I'm asking you to explain . .
The question is whether . .
1 is
or 0 is . . . ie. that has no end(can 1 be meaningful without 0? . . or maybe 0 is 1 . . 1 + 0 = 1 = God)
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So unless you encompass all vision, you are not Allah.
Everything are (refer here) . . . and you are denying Allah is Ahad and Samad (112).
and we don't need vision . . we just need to read and understand the Quran.
How Allah is Samad and One (ie. the exact nature of Allah) is the Mustasyaabihaat
But the facts that Allah is Ahad and Samad, only one existence, a whole without any void or emptiness . . is the Muhkamat . .
UNLESS . . . you don't believe in One God and believe in other deity (existence) than Allah . . including gods (with their own and separate existence from the One and Samad)
e.g some illustration and of course, far from being accurate . . just for some thoughts
sun and the sunlight . .
a likeness of Allah (sun, 1)
and the sunlight (creation, 0) . .the sunlight never exists (0) . . even if you can feel the heat and believe it exists
however, only the sun exists (1)prove http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y
or maybe 0 is 1 . . 1 + 0 = 1 = God
Allah is the light (2435)
a likeness of His light (sun) is as a niche in which is a lamp (sun)
. . .
the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not
light upon light (creation)
Allah guides to His light whom He pleases <- guides to realize everything is 1
(2435)Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth <- everything, Ahad and Samad
a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp
the lamp is in a glass
(and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star
lit from a blessed olive-tree
neither eastern nor western <- no boundary, Samad
the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not
light upon light
Allah guides to His light whom He pleases
and Allah sets forth parables for men
and Allah is Cognizant of all things
(2435) -
Peace habibullah,
It was not Moses who said it, it was God and I see it as a decent expression. It is a simple definition of someone who simple exist in a complicated way. I (simply) am that I am.
Peace the chimp,
I have not claimed that I follow only The Book, I follow God, the Message and whenever His true information turns up. But I do not follow that garbage hadith of Muhammad, or much of the Bible for that sake either. Where did I sway away from it by the way? When I mentioned about God to Moses and I am that I am? Does it change anything? God is what He is, is He not?
I have my way and you have yours. Please respect that.
And I accept science because I cannot deny something which can be proved to me, but I use it to my advantage instead in comprehending God.
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Muslims, you are actually resorting to lies of omission in order to prove your points.
Allah encompasses all vision, humans don't. Allah is ahad and samad. Humans aren't. If humans were, Allah would have put it in that very same ayah! How on earth do you keep jumping to the conclusion of me ignoring the issue of Ahad and Samad? I answered it with the Quran. You are ignoring the Quran.
You are cherry picking even my responses and spinning them into things I am not saying in order to suit your conservatism bias. None of your points even make sense, and it is not just the limitations of your command of the English language.
Alas, you still portray pharaoh as some sort of positive spiritual guide, which he was not!
If you truly believe that Allah is human and that humans are Allah, then you must provide the evidence with context (no cherry picking, must post 5 ayat of the same Surah together) to make your point. I am sure you will ignore this challenge too, and post some nonsense response.
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Everything are (refer here) . . . and you are denying Allah is Ahad and Samad (112).
and we don't need vision . . we just need to read and understand the Quran.
How Allah is Samad and One (ie. the exact nature of Allah) is the Mustasyaabihaat
But the facts that Allah is Ahad and Samad, only one existence, a whole without any void or emptiness . . is the Muhkamat . .
UNLESS . . . you don't believe in One God and believe in other deity (existence) than Allah . . including gods (with their own and separate existence from the One and Samad)
e.g some illustration and of course, far from being accurate . . just for some thoughts
sun and the sunlight . .
a likeness of Allah (sun, 1)
and the sunlight (creation, 0) . .the sunlight never exists (0) . . even if you can feel the heat and believe it exists
however, only the sun exists (1)prove http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y
Allah is the light (2435)
a likeness of His light (sun) is as a niche in which is a lamp (sun)
. . .
the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not
light upon light (creation)
Allah guides to His light whom He pleases <- guides to realize everything is 1
(2435)Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth <- everything, Ahad and Samad
a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp
the lamp is in a glass
(and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star
lit from a blessed olive-tree
neither eastern nor western <- no boundary, Samad
the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not
light upon light
Allah guides to His light whom He pleases
and Allah sets forth parables for men
and Allah is Cognizant of all things
(2435)You provide an abundance of so many fallacies, Muslims red herring, circular reasoning, and straw man. Dude, it's obvious.
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I have not claimed that I follow only The Book, I follow God, the Message and whenever His true information turns up. But I do not follow that garbage hadith of Muhammad, or much of the Bible for that sake either. Where did I sway away from it by the way? When I mentioned about God to Moses and I am that I am? Does it change anything? God is what He is, is He not?
I have asked you repeatedly - but you refuse to answer. And this question is serious
How do you assess what is from God and what isn't? Other than by Quran? Else, as I pointed out before - how are your messages any different from those of the Australian Jesus.
But I do not follow that garbage hadith of Muhammad
In a way you do. How else do you think the Quran has been preserved. No one follows the Hadith - without proper and due care, analysis and assessment. This is why your arguments and stance is so lacking, insincere and shallow. It is just laziness - you do not really know what you are rejecting and why. In other words - you are just another sheep following others.
Now - if you can do try to answer rather than once more avoiding. . .
Also, I have asked you this before - if you have a private belief system which is just limited to you - then why do you air it on a public forum?
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You provide an abundance of so many fallacies, Muslims red herring, circular reasoning, and straw man. Dude, it's obvious.
When people claim this - most likely there is nothing obvious about other person's illogicality. If it is that obvious then you would have no problems spelling it out.
Don't worry - I am no friend of "Muslims" - he has claimed similar towards me. People do this in order to avoid answering something.
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