Possibility of filtering good hadiths part1
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Being born in a sunni family,the basic reason i doubt their authenticity is that the mullas of sunnis lead religious speeches emotionally by creating a fear of hell,rather than using logic.But going through many articles of this site,i think the same problem is here too.
I accept the fact that majority of the sahih hadiths are corrupted especially Abu Huraira,Bukhari and Muslim.But let me clarify why i believe good hadiths should be filtered.
1.We know Quran is fully detailed.According to Abul al Moududi,in his intro of thafheemul Quran,says that while revealing Quran,Allah also sent a prophet to us. So its like Quran being a plan with prophet(pbuh)as an engineer to implement it in action.
2.Anyone who tries to interprete Quran goes into a dilemma,that he /she tries to interprete according to his/her need.Its not their fault,rather its a subconcious defense for survival.But we could be assured that interpretation of prophet should be pure.
3.A society without a history of itself is vulnerable as memories are the primary source of self defence.Islamic history could be digged mainly from hadiths.
4.Lot of scientifically accepted practices like circumcision(to avoid fungus formation),not touching a dog(as their saliva has bacterial content(as said by zakir naik and it will be welcomed,if anuyone could clarify if true),cleaningthe private parts something non muslims
wont do.pls check part 2 also. -
Being born in a sunni family,the basic reason i doubt their authenticity is that the mullas of sunnis lead religious speeches emotionally by creating a fear of hell,rather than using logic.
So how does speeches of Mullahs cast a doubt on authenticity of the Hadith? There is no correlation between the two things. Speeches are there to work on emotions - often articles and other written works written in a similarly emotional style.
However, the question is how does emotional speeches affect the authenticity of the Hadith Corpus? Where is the correlation between the two?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Read whatever hadiths you wish, just don't confuse extra-Qur'anic hadith with the Deen. Anything that you find as useful, use. Anything that is not useful, treat is as you would anything else that is not useful.
Remember that AQ says that it is complete, fully detailed, and enough for a believer.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Peace,
Well, the Message in The Book (Qur'an) is so simple barely even that Lore is required to follow God's Judgement and System.
God bless you
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salaam
don't eat from that tree.
Allah never asked adam to filter good fruits from bad fruits.When a book is full of lies, how someone can think to search the truth there ?
Peace
Your analogy does not work - Quranic story is limited - so how do you know what Adam was asked beyond what the verse are mentioning?
When a book is full of lies, how someone can think to search the truth there ?
Which book? What lies? Establish that first. Your proposition is an informal logical fallacy - you presuppose that it has been established that the unknown "book" is full of lies.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Read whatever hadiths you wish, just don't confuse extra-Qur'anic hadith with the Deen. Anything that you find as useful, use. Anything that is not useful, treat is as you would anything else that is not useful.
Remember that AQ says that it is complete, fully detailed, and enough for a believer.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Almost there - only thing is how do you tell the good from the bad? Answer the Quran.
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Peace,
Yes indeed. That is my religion. yay
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Salaam Aslam Habeeb.
I support your effort, cause I still believe if some hadith didn't corrupted, even it's very rare/little.
" It is a big field of research. It is hard to say simply this is true or this is fabricated. It is a science of examining the old history and tradition. This science has its rules. I have many books and articles in how to conduct such research.This is my first field as I graduated from the Department of Muslim History of Al Azhar. The PhD holders in that department have the expertise in examining the details of Muslim History including Sira. In any case, it has nothing to do with the religion of Islam "
by Ahmed Subhy Mansour
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I accept the fact that majority of the sahih hadiths are corrupted especially Abu Huraira,Bukhari and Muslim.But let me clarify why i believe good hadiths should be filtered.
It's the FILTER that's important, you must filter everything not only the Hadiths.
And it's the individual / human conscience FILTER that the Mullah is trying to overcome.
That's why they invented DOGMA.
Where DOGMA = Something which MUST be accepted (read something which must not be filtered)2.Anyone who tries to interprete Quran goes into a dilemma,that he /she tries to interprete according to his/her need.Its not their fault,rather its a subconcious defense for survival.
Correct including the Mullahs, Imams and those who invented all of those conception we found in the book called Rumour a.k.a Hadith
3.A society without a history of itself is vulnerable as memories are the primary source of self defence.Islamic history could be digged mainly from hadiths.
The Religion of Islam history can be digged out from Hadith, although it should not be interpreted as 'face value'.
For example, in the Hadith one can find something like
- Christians, Jews will go to hell, interpreted as "There's an inter-religion conflict, and hatred among them is abundant in the society during the time of Hadith".
- Muhammad saying the first requirement to join the Religion of Islam is by saying the Shahada.
Interpreted as "The conception of Shahada was invented during the time of Hadith, and it's invented to differentiate between member of Islam with non-member of Islam", this shows how SECTARIAN / DIVIDED the society was during that time.
The Hadith is an amazing source to dig out
- HOW MIDEASTERN PEOPLE THINK DURING 8th-10th CENTURY
but NOT as - THE SOURCE FOR THE TRUTH ALL TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH
The 'problem' of SECTARIANISM is not on the "Hadith" per se, but it's more on the MINDSET itself.
Truth is not recognized because "Somebody/something said is true", this is a fallacy known as ARGUMENTUM AD VERECUNDIAM
A says P about S.
A should be trusted about S.
Therefore, P is correct.Salam / Peace
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The 'problem' of SECTARIANISM is not on the "Hadith" per se, but it's more on the MINDSET itself.
Exactly. It is not only atheist scientists that have zoomed in too much.. and lost the bigger picture. The same thing has happened to religious people. This has nothing to do with science or religion. Science and religion are just hobbies/expressions. Sectarianism is one style of fear and peacelessness expressed. Hadith is not creating sectarianism. WE are creating sectarianism by accepting dogmas that divide us. We USE hadith, science, etc to feed sectarianism due to our inner FEAR and disconnection from Reality and Peace. Sectarianism is found in religion, but not only there. It is found everywhere in society!
Also, I wonder why people are concerned about filtering out good hadith from bad hadith.
Is there an underlying assumption that we are bound to follow the good hadith as divine instruction if we find it??
If we are on a hunt for for good hadith, aren't we supposed to hunt for hadith outside Islam as well, whether it is in non-religious sources or sources of other religions? Or are we assuming that hadith is divine, but polluted?
Exactly what are our assumptions about hadith when we talk about discerning "good" hadith from "bad"? Let's be very clear about our own assumption.Peace folks
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Salam,
Zulf, I think the idea about filtering hadiths of traditional sources is to keep a bond with current traditionalists or even awaken their beliefs. Many people who followed tradition in the past may still have associations with it. Also some orally told stories have had some positive impacts to people.
Aslam, you might find this an interesting read http//www.scribd.com/doc/119660399/dialogues-of-hadith-different-perceptions-and-insights.
I think the process of sifting through hadiths and filtering them is a complex task. Why I think that is, is totally dependent on your criteria that justifies the nullification of a hadith, what would be the filter to "please" the majority.
Salam.
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Salam,
Zulf, I think the idea about filtering hadiths of traditional sources is to keep a bond with current traditionalists or even awaken their beliefs. Many people who followed tradition in the past may still have associations with it. Also some orally told stories have had some positive impacts to people.
Aslam, you might find this an interesting read http//www.scribd.com/doc/119660399/dialogues-of-hadith-different-perceptions-and-insights.
I think the process of sifting through hadiths and filtering them is a complex task. Why I think that is, is totally dependent on your criteria that justifies the nullification of a hadith, what would be the filter to "please" the majority.
Salam.
Salam SarahY,
thanks for your response.
Perhaps I'm not addressing your points directly, but anyhow... )No doubt, many stories in hadith are wonderful stories of wisdom and good morals, or so I assume.
But I think we need to be very clear about what we wish to achieve when filtering the corpus of hadith.
Telling a ridiculous hadith from a sensible one only takes common sense. What is it we want to extract from the hadith? Do we want to extract general wise advice in how to live life, or do we want dogmatic rules which cannot be falsifiable and that are useless anyway? Something like "fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me" would be a general and useful thing to learn from, but when we are told that historical character XYZ said that you must eat bananas standing on one leg... for no other reason than that XYZ was God's chosen messenger on Earth... then that's something totally different. So, what is the filtering supposed to achieve? Are we supposed to find out which stories about XYZ are true and which are false, despite none of them are falsifiable and they're all useless. So we just want to separate good dogma from bad dogma?I mean, if something is useful for us in life, we'd not need any special method of filtering it out. We'd just simply recognize it as sensible. The whole point is that we are not supposed to uphold things we cannot verify. What's the point of filtering hadith in the first place? Isn't this filtering just a way to organize hadith in two different groups... but in the end it is all still just hadith.
Peace
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Salam,
You're welcome and you're comments are fine.
I believe it is totally individual for what purpose one filters hadith. There can be numerous reasons. Excluding the odd, illogical hadiths, I tend to think some people rebel against hadith purely because of traditionalists inclination towards them.
Sure, picking a ridiculous hadith from a sensible one might be as simple as common sense, however not always. Also is the emphasis purely on the content? what about the historic evidence or historical proof that it was actually said or that those 2 narrators met. The corpus of hadith is a lot more complex but certainly I believe content should be scrutinised, especially for those who wish to keep their link with muslim history.
Also a lot of hadith isn't dogma, a lot of it isn't rulings to follow or sunnah but I guess it's easy to think like that with scholars/sheikhs always throwing rulings down our throats.
I genuinely think if hadiths with prescribed acts were further filtered in line with Quranic rulings, it may make others think hold on a min.. isn't it authentic why is it filtered further? or at least more muslims would be following Quran, so that people would celebrate their similarities more than their differences. Though I know it's not everyone's cup of tea...
All writings are a form of hadith and we don't always verify everything we accept/believe.. but we can try.
Historical evidence and be ambiguous but we've all learnt something from it.
Peace.
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dude the quran is so awesome and it's the word of ALLAH will you not rational want to hear what your god says to you?
seriously ALLAH send down the quran before the hadiths, so by that my question is does that make the hadith a innovation? a get quick knowledge scheme?quran is From ALLAH which one of his blessings will you deny
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Peace,
In fact the Message is so simple it barely even needs a Book (Quran), but it is a good reminder.
God bless you
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I believe Quran is complete, perfect and fully detailed.
But it's not wrong we understand it with another tools, since Quran's language is special in format.Peace