Jizya is not a tax
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Salam ALL
928 O you who believe, the Mushrikins are impure, so let them not approach the MASJID HARAM after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then God will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
929 Fight those who do not believe(Yoomin) in God or the Last Day, nor do they restrict what God and His messenger have restricted, nor do they uphold the system of truth; from among the people who have been given the Book; until they YOU3TOU (ا EL JIZYATA 3AN YADIN WA HOM SAGHIRIN, willingly.YOU3TOU EL JIZYATA AN YADIN is traduced by
- until they pay the reparation, willingly or unwillingly, and they are subdued
obviously, monotheist traduction take distance with classical and totally stupid understanding of tax based on religious belief since there in no "constraint in religion".
however reparation understanding is a problem for me. Mainly for YOU3TOU word before.
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(ا YOU3TOU is conjugation of word that mean give. it is a passive form.let see for example how same word was traduced in
958 And from them are those who criticize you regarding the charities. If they are given from it, they are content; and if they are not given (lam YOU3TOU) from it, they become enraged!so, it seems that it is mushrikoiuns who are given something and not the reverse.
Jizya derives from a word that mean conterpart ,award.
Counterpart of what is given par verse itself
nor do they restrict what God and His messenger have restricted, nor do they uphold the system of truth; from among the people who have been given the Book;that is counterpart of false teachings given buy thise who were given the book.
The counterpart of false teachings is obviously true teachings.Based on principle of equivalence
4240 The recompense (JAZAA) for a crime shall be its equivalence, but whoever forgives and makes right, then his reward is upon God. He does not like the wrongdoers.please note use of word jazaa, same root as jizya, in the declaration of equivalence principle
3AN YADIN is clearly an "use force if needed" or a "by any mean" meaning.
YAD is used many times in quran to mean "means, finances...".We are here in heart of how words of gods should be propagated and how Muslims conquests after Muhammad have been managed
1- Ask people to come and heard word of Allah
2- if some people (leaders, priest) try to impeach you, use force if possiblewe have an all story like this teached in quran (Salomon and SABA Queen)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604930.0it is not then strange to find saghirin word there
2737 ?Go back to them. For we shall come to them with "MOBILIZED/Miltants/Soldiers" the like of which they have never seen, and we will drive them out humiliated, while they are feeble (SAGHIRIN).?SAGHIRIN=littleness like saghir=little
ISLAM is for debate (HAJJ), free speaking.
TAX based on faith is totally unconstitutionnal. Like Dhimmi statute and other inventions of "islamic" bani israelPeace from Ismael
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Peace "noshirk"
I see no clear arguments from your post.
Why cant Islam have tax based on "faith"? A "believer" may not have any problem paying his part of the Sadaqa, but what about those who associate (shirk) other rulers/rules with God and his laws?How would you do to stop poverty if the population does not follow a SOCIALISTIC system?
You are not the only one forgetting about the politic and the economic system found in The book. It seems like a trend here on FM.
Please let me recommend you this book
http//www.spotlight-online.de/files/spotlight/Blogs/Images/green_book.jpg -
Why cant Islam have tax based on "faith"? A "believer" may not have any problem paying his part of the Sadaqa, but what about those who associate (shirk) other rulers/rules with God and his laws?
Islam have tax?? you mean Islam imposed tax?
What is Islam? and why does somebody need to pay tax to it?Now on taxation (which has no correlation whatsoever with islam)
Tax is a mean for a government/administration of a society to have an income which MUST be used to provide services to its citizens or member of such society.I agree with noshirk that TAX rate based on faith is totally ridiculous.
It's as ridiculous as TAX rate based on gender, race / ethnicity, political parties, favorite music and hobbies..
(Because you're black then your tax rate is higher than white, because you love Justin Beiber your tax rate is higher than those who hate Justin Beiber, Because you're a shiite then your tax rate is higher than sunnis etc..)The benefits / services realized due to taxation must also bring benefits to all member of specific society
Regardless of their faith, gender, race / ethnicity, political parties, favorite music and hobbies..We can have a debate on taxation rate based on "Capability To Pay" or "Benefits Received" principle. Or mixture of both.
But TAX rate based on faith is totally ridiculous..A government who imposed tax rate discrimination based on faith / opinion will not last long.
As it brings injustice to certain segment of society, and that segment of society shall eventually start out their rebellion due to the injustice.
The society will be fragmented and unity will not be achieved.
And it's definitely proven by digging into past history..Salam / Peace
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Islam have tax?? you mean Islam imposed tax?
What is Islam? and why does somebody need to pay tax to it?Now on taxation (which has no correlation whatsoever with islam)
Tax is a mean for a government/administration of a society to have an income which MUST be used to provide services to its citizens or member of such society.I agree with noshirk that TAX rate based on faith is totally ridiculous.
It's as ridiculous as TAX rate based on gender, race / ethnicity, political parties, favorite music and hobbies..
(Because you're black then your tax rate is higher than white, because you love Justin Beiber your tax rate is higher than those who hate Justin Beiber, Because you're a shiite then your tax rate is higher than sunnis etc..)The benefits / services realized due to taxation must also bring benefits to all member of specific society
Regardless of their faith, gender, race / ethnicity, political parties, favorite music and hobbies..We can have a debate on taxation rate based on "Capability To Pay" or "Benefits Received" principle. Or mixture of both.
But TAX rate based on faith is totally ridiculous..A government who imposed tax rate discrimination based on faith / opinion will not last long.
As it brings injustice to certain segment of society, and that segment of society shall eventually start out their rebellion due to the injustice.
The society will be fragmented and unity will not be achieved.
And it's definitely proven by digging into past history..Salam / Peace
Salaam,
totally agreed handshake
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace "noshirk"
I see no clear arguments from your post.
Why cant Islam have tax based on "faith"? A "believer" may not have any problem paying his part of the Sadaqa, but what about those who associate (shirk) other rulers/rules with God and his laws?How would you do to stop poverty if the population does not follow a SOCIALISTIC system?
You are not the only one forgetting about the politic and the economic system found in The book. It seems like a trend here on FM.
Please let me recommend you this book
http//www.spotlight-online.de/files/spotlight/Blogs/Images/green_book.jpgSalaam Habibullah
i will not respond on the value of the socialistic system.
i will not respond on the hidden hypothesis that only "muslims" make charityit is however obvious that, in a 100% "muslim" country, there is no jizya according to "followers of Cheikhs" beliefs.
According to "followers of Cheikhs", the tax rate on rich is 2,5%.
is that socialism ?Peace
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Salaam Habibullah
Brother, please clearify for me why it is "stupid understanding of tax based on religious belief"?
Why is it stupid?To make it simplier, let us draw a picture
Believer pays willingly the Sadaqa = justification of citizenship, lets say it is 1/5 of his salary
Kafir/mushrik does not believe in the book nor the system so he pays zero (0) of his salary yet he enjoys the services that is funded only by the tax Military, police, schools, hospitals etc etc. Is that just?You will face the same problem as Jafar pointed out for me ".. it brings injustice to certain segment of society, and that segment of society shall eventually start out their rebellion due to the injustice" but this time the injustice is towards those who accept the system.
A solution is offered, a believer pays 1/5 as sadaqa, while the kafir/mushrik pays 1/5 as Jizya.
Please note, the numbers may be made up by me just to make my point clear. You can put 2.5% as sadaqa and 2.5% as jizya if you wish.
Peace
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Brother, please clearify for me why it is "stupid understanding of tax based on religious belief"?
Why is it stupid?To make it simplier, let us draw a picture
Believer pays willingly the Sadaqa = justification of citizenship, lets say it is 1/5 of his salary
Kafir/mushrik does not believe in the book nor the system so he pays zero (0) of his salary yet he enjoys the services that is funded only by the tax Military, police, schools, hospitals etc etc. Is that just?You will face the same problem as Jafar pointed out for me ".. it brings injustice to certain segment of society, and that segment of society shall eventually start out their rebellion due to the injustice" but this time the injustice is towards those who accept the system.
A solution is offered, a believer pays 1/5 as sadaqa, while the kafir/mushrik pays 1/5 as Jizya.
Please note, the numbers may be made up by me just to make my point clear. You can put 2.5% as sadaqa and 2.5% as jizya if you wish.
Peace
Salaam Habibullalh.
i will probably open another thread about word sadaqa.
For the moment, i will take your understanding that it is something given willingly (a naflaton, then).Actually, the "official rate" of "sadaqa" that is called "Zakat" is 2.5% (1/40).
it is incredibly low. even capitalist country dont go so low in taxation. Tax VAT (indirect taxes) in alone about 20 %
so, "zakat" tax rate is a big hypocrysie if we took it as a way to finance state budget.there is absolutely no reason also to call differently a tax according to "beliefs" of the taxpayer (zakat, sadaqa, jizya...).
it would be also a clear incentive to "fradulous muslim" who declare themselves "muslims" just to escape "fiscality" by just saying that they have already given their tax duty to whatever "poor" met anywhere (i can, for example, without any lie, consider all tips given as my zakat duty).Bankrupcy is, i think, the only result obtained by a state budget based an "zakat" fiscality (except, of course, four islamic coutry based on oil revenues).
Peace