I have some questions about Quranism.
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First of all, let me start off by saying I am not completely Quranist. I guess you could say that...I have Quranist leanings? Basically, I do not use the Sunni system for determining the authenticity of Hadith. I accept a Hadith on the following terms The Hadith must line up with science, it must not contradict the Quran, it must not mention anything that is not mentioned in the Quran, and it must not spit in the face of the prophet (AS) or Islam. What is your view on people like this?
Second, what is your view on the belief that everybody, or at least everybody excluding people the likes of hitler will go to heaven? I believe that either, everyone including Muslims will go to hell to be punished, and then after they are punished, they enter paradise...Or that Muslims just skip hell but everybody else is punished, but they still go to paradise eventually. And I don't get why the sunnis reject this considering there are Hadiths to support it.
Last, this seems rather irrelevant compared to the other questions, but if I lucid dream intentionally about Haram things, is that Haram?
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I think I agree with much of what you say, it's not as if I don't believe some of hadith is true, and if you stick to traditional methods of salat, wudu etc then you need to believe in hadith to a degree anyway.
I think another issue though is whether hadith is treated, real or not to the word of God. To me, hadith when I believe it's authenticity is still just plesent advice and not a code to live by, that is why I would not call myself a sunni.
In regards to heaven I believe there is a verse relating to 'the last person to leave hell' can't get the quote as I'm on my phone at the moment. This makes me think that everyone will eventually leave hell after their sentence is carried out.
In regards to lucid dreaming, I think that is safe as that is a state of unconsciousness even if you have the power to actively change that dream and make dessions . As a lucid dreamer myself I sure hope I won't be accountable for what I do there too!
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Greetings and Peace, all group
@Tiresomehoopla welcome
First of all, let me start off by saying I am not completely Quranist. I guess you could say that...I have Quranist leanings? Basically, I do not use the Sunni system for determining the authenticity of Hadith. I accept a Hadith on the following terms The Hadith must line up with science, it must not contradict the Quran, it must not mention anything that is not mentioned in the Quran, and it must not spit in the face of the prophet (AS) or Islam. What is your view on people like this?
Second, what is your view on the belief that everybody, or at least everybody excluding people the likes of hitler will go to heaven? I believe that either, everyone including Muslims will go to hell to be punished, and then after they are punished, they enter paradise...Or that Muslims just skip hell but everybody else is punished, but they still go to paradise eventually. And I don't get why the sunnis reject this considering there are Hadiths to support it.
Last, this seems rather irrelevant compared to the other questions, but if I lucid dream intentionally about Haram things, is that Haram?
Many here reject the label "Quranist" although others embrace it. My view is that everybody is individual and must follow the best of their own understandings. Even somebody who is polytheist (which is NOT my understanding about you) may eventually come to monotheism, ISA. Since the Qur'an says that it is fully detailed, complete, the best hadith, and enough for a believer...it is difficult for me to take accept extra-Qur'anic teachings as part of the Deen. For all of this, there is nothing ~wrong~ with extra-Qur'anic hadith insofar as it is never mixed with the System of the Almighty. Hadith may teach other lessons--or not.
I reject the idea that all people go to Paradise eventually. I'm not certain that either Hell or Paradise is forever, however. This being said, less than forever can still encompass a VERY long time.
2888 And do not call besides GOD any god, there is no god except He. Everything will fade away except His face. To Him is the judgment, and to Him you will be returned.
People have no control over their dreams. Further, nobody has any authority to declare things halal or haram. To my understanding, there is nothing to be concerned about regarding your dreams. It is normal, natural, and beyond your control. Regarding daydreaming/active imagination, I have mixed feelings about this.
6151 Say "Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is evident of it and what is subtle; and do not take the life which GOD has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
733 Say "My Lord has made unlawful lewdness; what is evident of it and what is subtle; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with GOD that which He has never authorized, and that you say about GOD what you do not know."
5331 And to GOD belongs everything in the heavens and everything on the earth. He will requite those who commit evil for their works, and will reward the righteous for their righteousness.
5332 They avoid major sins and lewdness, except for minor offences. Your Lord is with vast forgiveness. He has been fully aware of you since He initiated you from the earth, and while you were embryos in the wombs of your mothers. Therefore, do not ascribe purity to yourselves; He is fully aware of the righteous.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Many here reject the label Quranist?? Anyone who rejects labels are following the Quran better than those who do, and those who label others.
The biggest problem of those who read the Quran and call themselves by any name is that they think the Quranic verses about those who go to hell, Kafirs, Polytheists or what ever you may read of, they all refer to others. Nope, judge yourself.
Make sure you are not one of those the Quran calls hellbound. Others, you wouldn't know. You would never know because you do not know whats between their minds and God. Can quote Quran but I opted out.
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I think I agree with much of what you say, it's not as if I don't believe some of hadith is true, and if you stick to traditional methods of salat, wudu etc then you need to believe in hadith to a degree anyway.
I think another issue though is whether hadith is treated, real or not to the word of God. To me, hadith when I believe it's authenticity is still just plesent advice and not a code to live by, that is why I would not call myself a sunni.
In regards to heaven I believe there is a verse relating to 'the last person to leave hell' can't get the quote as I'm on my phone at the moment. This makes me think that everyone will eventually leave hell after their sentence is carried out.
In regards to lucid dreaming, I think that is safe as that is a state of unconsciousness even if you have the power to actively change that dream and make dessions . As a lucid dreamer myself I sure hope I won't be accountable for what I do there too!
If you find the verse, can you show it to me?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
@Tiresomehoopla welcome
Many here reject the label "Quranist" although others embrace it. My view is that everybody is individual and must follow the best of their own understandings. Even somebody who is polytheist (which is NOT my understanding about you) may eventually come to monotheism, ISA. Since the Qur'an says that it is fully detailed, complete, the best hadith, and enough for a believer...it is difficult for me to take accept extra-Qur'anic teachings as part of the Deen. For all of this, there is nothing ~wrong~ with extra-Qur'anic hadith insofar as it is never mixed with the System of the Almighty. Hadith may teach other lessons--or not.
I reject the idea that all people go to Paradise eventually. I'm not certain that either Hell or Paradise is forever, however. This being said, less than forever can still encompass a VERY long time.
2888 And do not call besides GOD any god, there is no god except He. Everything will fade away except His face. To Him is the judgment, and to Him you will be returned.
People have no control over their dreams. Further, nobody has any authority to declare things halal or haram. To my understanding, there is nothing to be concerned about regarding your dreams. It is normal, natural, and beyond your control. Regarding daydreaming/active imagination, I have mixed feelings about this.
6151 Say "Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is evident of it and what is subtle; and do not take the life which GOD has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
733 Say "My Lord has made unlawful lewdness; what is evident of it and what is subtle; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with GOD that which He has never authorized, and that you say about GOD what you do not know."
5331 And to GOD belongs everything in the heavens and everything on the earth. He will requite those who commit evil for their works, and will reward the righteous for their righteousness.
5332 They avoid major sins and lewdness, except for minor offences. Your Lord is with vast forgiveness. He has been fully aware of you since He initiated you from the earth, and while you were embryos in the wombs of your mothers. Therefore, do not ascribe purity to yourselves; He is fully aware of the righteous.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
So you think that humans will pass away? I don't understand why God would do that?
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First of all, let me start off by saying I am not completely Quranist. I guess you could say that...I have Quranist leanings? Basically, I do not use the Sunni system for determining the authenticity of Hadith. I accept a Hadith on the following terms The Hadith must line up with science, it must not contradict the Quran, it must not mention anything that is not mentioned in the Quran, and it must not spit in the face of the prophet (AS) or Islam. What is your view on people like this?
Second, what is your view on the belief that everybody, or at least everybody excluding people the likes of hitler will go to heaven? I believe that either, everyone including Muslims will go to hell to be punished, and then after they are punished, they enter paradise...Or that Muslims just skip hell but everybody else is punished, but they still go to paradise eventually. And I don't get why the sunnis reject this considering there are Hadiths to support it.
Last, this seems rather irrelevant compared to the other questions, but if I lucid dream intentionally about Haram things, is that Haram?
salaam
All hadiths contradicts verse 45-6
Al hamdoulillah, no need to search in the garbage books to find message of Allah.
Peace -
Greetings and Peace, all group
So you think that humans will pass away? I don't understand why God would do that?
Yes. What do you think Judgment Day is? hmm
21104 On the Day when We roll up the heavens like the scroll of a book is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.
According to what we know of science, even the Earth will pass away in a few billion years. This doesn't necessarily mean that humans will be alive in a few billion years, nor does it mean for certain the end of humans at that time.
This temporal life is but a small part of our existence. We don't have to understand ALLAH, it is enough to know (and follow) the Guidance and recognize that the Almighty is most Beneficent and most Wise. The Lord of the Universe knows us better than we know ourselves and surely knows the "bigger picture" better too. I think of humanities' entire existence as being less than one atom in relation to all we know of the universe in comparison to any aspect of ALLAH. And yet, ALLAH chose to send Messengers and Prophets (Peace upon them all) and even befriended Abraham. If that isn't Mercy and Beneficence, I don't know what is.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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But what about the afterlife?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
But what about the afterlife?
It is my understanding that even the afterlife is not permanent. I could be wrong...ALLAH knows best. Permanent or not, it should not change our striving in the least little bit. To quote an excerpt of a poem by William Blake
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.A minute or an hour can be a long time; how much more so can years beyond number be? Don't worry about things that are beyond our control.
Also, know that what we are told of Paradise is an example--it is not to be taken literally. Probably it is beyond human comprehension, but can be summed up as "a VERY nice place/state of being/existance."
1335 The example of the Paradise which the righteous are promised, is that rivers flow beneath it, and its provisions are continuous as is its shade. Such is the abode of those who were righteous, while the abode of the rejecters is the Fire.
4715 Is the example of the Paradise; that the righteous have been promised with rivers of pure water, and rivers of milk whose taste does not change, and rivers of wine that are delicious for the drinkers, and rivers of strained honey, and for them in it are all kinds of fruits, and a forgiveness from their Lord; like that of those who abide in the Fire, and are given to drink boiling water that cuts-up their intestines?
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Ok, thank you for answering those questions, but I have some more....(This is what happens when you convert from Christianity to Sunni Islam to somewhat Quranist Islam ._.)
Anyways, do Hadith rejectors believe that mainstream Muslims are...Well, Muslims? Will they go to paradise? What about Muslims such as myself, who reject some Hadiths that do not make sense but accept others?
Also, I saw in a religious comparison that Christianity teaches that humans have a tenancy towards wrong-doing(I can verify this, I was a Christian) and Islam teaches that humans have equal capability to do either or. Is this true? Either in Sunni or Quranist Islam?
EDIT What do you think of the Dr. Ghali translation of the Quran? Is it accurate?
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Peace be upon you
Anyways, do Hadith rejectors believe that mainstream Muslims are...Well, Muslims?
This question is beyond human reach to answer it.
The religion splitted into some sects cause the diferences on Scripture views and intepretations.
Example is Catholic and Protestant splitted well in theology even they embrace the same New Testament.
Sunni, Shia, Quran Only also in the same position like that.It depend to us.We wanna surpass God's authority by became a hardliner then label other muslims as kafeer and go to hell because teologically different or became faithful muslim by practice Quran in daily life without any sectarian disturbances.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Ok, thank you for answering those questions, but I have some more....(This is what happens when you convert from Christianity to Sunni Islam to somewhat Quranist Islam ._.)
Anyways, do Hadith rejectors believe that mainstream Muslims are...Well, Muslims? Will they go to paradise? What about Muslims such as myself, who reject some Hadiths that do not make sense but accept others?
Also, I saw in a religious comparison that Christianity teaches that humans have a tenancy towards wrong-doing(I can verify this, I was a Christian) and Islam teaches that humans have equal capability to do either or. Is this true? Either in Sunni or Quranist Islam?
EDIT What do you think of the Dr. Ghali translation of the Quran? Is it accurate?
It doesn't matter if a person says they are a Quranist, a Sunni, a Hindu, or whatever--these are all just human labels. From each group, there will be people that go to Hell and there will be people that go to Paradise, ISA. A human label never has and never will be the defining characteristic of how a person will be Judged on Judgment Day.
Free will means that people can make choices, and the choices can be made with the intent towards good or the intent towards bad. Btw, AQ contains hadith and also states that it is the best hadith...Qur'an only muslims tend to reject extra-Qur'anic hadith for purposes of the Deen.
No single translation is entirely accurate. It is good to use multiple translations. Another tactic is to cross reference words in Arabic in the Qur'an; look at other usages of the same word in the Qur'an to verify that a translation is a good one.
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and heart, all these you are responsible for.
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom GOD has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
Here are some resources
http//corpus.quran.com/
(good for cross referencing, some translations)http//www.quranix.net/
(multiple translations and transliteration)http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/
(even MORE translations and transliteration)ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
It doesn't matter if a person says they are a Quranist, a Sunni, a Hindu, or whatever--these are all just human labels. From each group, there will be people that go to Hell and there will be people that go to Paradise, ISA. A human label never has and never will be the defining characteristic of how a person will be Judged on Judgment Day.
Free will means that people can make choices, and the choices can be made with the intent towards good or the intent towards bad.
So how hard is it to get into heaven? Would the average person get in? What about one whom has done equal right and wrong?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
So how hard is it to get into heaven? Would the average person get in? What about one whom has done equal right and wrong?
I don't know the answers to these questions. Hell will be a busy place. Nobody will be done any injustice.
5030 The Day We say to Hell "Are you full?" And it says "Is there not more?"
In regards to right and wrong, maybe this can help a little
5100 Say "The bad and the good are not equal, even if the abundance of the bad impresses you." So be aware of GOD, O you who possess intelligence, that you may succeed.
2362 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.
Be a good person and a monotheist and all should go well, ISA.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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What is the verdict on cussing/swearing? This is, of course, assuming you do not use them to insult somebody, or to take God's name in vain, or to insult something good or that someone may hold closely to them. (I.E. "That was ****ing hilarious!"
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What is the verdict on cussing/swearing? This is, of course, assuming you do not use them to insult somebody, or to take God's name in vain, or to insult something good or that someone may hold closely to them. (I.E. "That was ****ing hilarious!"
Problematic, because I am guilty of devaluing curse words myself to basic descriptive words. I would always assume intent plays a part, and who else is or potentially is in earshot of your use of the words.
Desensitising of swearwords at least in the west has been going on for a few decades now, they simply don't carry the strong meanings they used to have. I would still advise caution in public places, even if you and your friends/family don't think its a big deal, there maybe someone else (with children) that does.
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So how hard is it to get into heaven? Would the average person get in? What about one whom has done equal right and wrong?
Peace,
You can infer from the context of The Book that most people will end up in Hell. It does not take a genius by observing the world as it is to infer the same too. There is a relatively small group of people that will reach Heaven. Why people will not go to Heaven is well described in The Book.
You can do wrong in your life and still be admitted into Heaven. Probably no human is without sin anyway so. The Book explains quite well about how it works. Good deeds weigh much heavier than the bad ones so if you just work hard on the good ones they will remit many of the bad ones when you stand in the courtroom of God at the end of days.
Examples of good deeds are; helping the homeless, assisting an old woman across the street, lending your brother a month's rent so he is not evicted during a financial crisis, giving your brother a plate of food when he is starving, remit your brother's debt when he cannot pay you, forgive your neighbor for something he has done to you, giving an honest smile, lending your brother a hand, and many other obvious things.
In conclusion all these deeds weigh much heavier than sinful deeds although deeds like polytheism are worse than minor offenses. So we can say you can do many sinful deeds throughout your life if you mix them with good ones since the good ones are worth more, but you may obviously not end up in highest Heaven if you are too sinful in nature. However, very few good deeds and a flood of sins will obviously not be something to come around with when you stand trial. I would not consider giving regular charity while being very rude and unjust in daily life to be worth anything in the end, and so would not God either. The good deeds are about trying to establish or maintain a system/community of God.
Of course if you are aware that you do wrong but do it anyways that it worse than if you were aware of it and ignored the fact it was wrong. Many of us do things which are not good while we were not really aware of which consequences they had. We shall regret our wrongdoings and repent to The Lord.
And I cannot tell if I am going to Hell though. We do not know until the day we get the record in our hand. Overall I feel pretty safe though without intending to be arrogant, but I cannot say. Complete certainty that God is really real and to struggle onwards at doing good is a card of triumph. They are the winners.
The error with sectarian Islam is if you uphold teachings which are invented by humans and you extract meanings from words of The Book which do not carry such meaning. To uphold such teachings erroneously and with minimized idolatry may as well be forgiven by The Lord, so you cannot say that only those who adhere to the "Quranism" movement will go to Heaven. On the other hand, all those who are so-called "Quranists" will not go to Heaven because simply knowing the words without the good deeds will hence nullify them. God made it written in The Book (with some addition to make it up-to-date 2014)
262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, (and the Muslims), whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.
283 And We took the covenant of the Children of Israel ?You shall not serve except God, and do good to your parents, and regard the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and say kind things to the people, and hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards purification.? But then you turned away, except for a few of you; you were objecting.
284 And We have taken a covenant with you ?You shall not spill the blood of each other, nor expel each other from your homes.? And you agreed to this while bearing witness.The same rules apply to the general crowd as of 2014.
God bless you
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brickwall
THERE IS NO QURANISM!!!!!!!IT'S ISLAM HOW CAN YOU FOLLOW THE QURAN AND NOT BE A MUSLIM?
READ THIS SLOWLY!
THEY WISH TO SEPERATE ALLAH FROM HIS BOOK....
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brickwall
THERE IS NO QURANISM!!!!!!!IT'S ISLAM HOW CAN YOU FOLLOW THE QURAN AND NOT BE A MUSLIM?
READ THIS SLOWLY!
THEY WISH TO SEPERATE ALLAH FROM HIS BOOK....
Well then how do you wish people refer to Quran only/Hadith rejecting Muslims?