Should we hold Nationalism??
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Salam Jafar
Before I further, I want to ask for what's your religion actually.I already read some of your posts and it seems you always mix something with another religions.
My religion is << Feel Free To Put Any Name Of Religion Here Infact Put As Many Names As You Can >>
And why do you ask? Why is it important?In this thread, I want discuss bout Nationalism by Quranic views and currently I reject the modern concept of Nationalism.
I'm interested on this point, please explain in simple way and elaborate with Quran verses if necesarry.
Hope you're not and atheist/agnostic.Nationalism, Religionism, Racism, Ethnicism, Quranism and Non-Quranism is just a mechanism put forward by human species to differentiate between us and them. It is a grouping definition.
My statement of the quote is very clear what kind of explanation that you need?
It is all about CONTROL OF RESOURCES.Human is a greedy species, at least human at the current stage of evolution, they always wanted CONTROL over things.
A group of human agreed to uphold the same identity as "A Nation" laid claim over a stake of land in planet earth.
This piece of land is mine/ours and not yours.If they can travel through stars or galaxies they will put their claim that this planet/star system/galaxy is mine/ours and not yours.
Another group might propose the same claim, and they will involve in a debate which might be escalated into full scale war.
The winner shall earn control of the claimed resources.
Or they might come to an agreement to split the resources, this planet/star system/galaxy is mine and that planet/star system/galaxy is yours. -
So am I .. I am a human being and sometimes I'm a Buddhist and other times I'm a Hinduist.. and so on.
Brother Jafar never wrote that in this thread.Maybe you missquoted him
Peace be upon thee.
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I guess it is the SMF connection problem
database problem and they revert it few minutes back..However, it is recorded here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=997My religion is << Feel Free To Put Any Name Of Religion Here Infact Put As Many Names As You Can >>
And why do you ask? Why is it important?Nationalism, Religionism, Racism, Ethnicism, Quranism and Non-Quranism is just a mechanism put forward by human species to differentiate between us and them. It is a grouping definition.
My statement of the quote is very clear what kind of explanation that you need?
It is all about CONTROL OF RESOURCES.Human is a greedy species, at least human at the current stage of evolution, they always wanted CONTROL over things.
A group of human agreed to uphold the same identity as "A Nation" laid claim over a stake of land in planet earth.
This piece of land is mine/ours and not yours.If they can travel through stars or galaxies they will put their claim that this planet/star system/galaxy is mine/ours and not yours.
Another group might propose the same claim, and they will involve in a debate which might be escalated into full scale war.
The winner shall earn control of the claimed resources.
Or they might come to an agreement to split the resources, this planet/star system/galaxy is mine and that planet/star system/galaxy is yours. -
I guess it is the SMF connection problem
database problem and they revert it few minutes back..However, it is recorded here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=997Thank you for the clearness.
If you hath anything arguments, please feel free to post in here.My religion is << Feel Free To Put Any Name Of Religion Here Infact Put As Many Names As You Can >>
And why do you ask? Why is it important?Sorry Jafar if you're not Islam, I cannot go further to discuss with you.
The parameter of this discussion is still Quran and no other religious Scriptures, unless undefined conclusion will occurs. -
Islam is just a symbol, and maybe it is not the real issue since all creatures have submitted to Allah.
Is it other than the system of God that they desire
when those in the heavens and the earth have submitted (َ to Him voluntarily or by force?
(3.83)The real issue is how we are able to speak the same language while maintaining our unique identity
This language is balance and justice to humanityI believe this is the real issue...
It is so since Allah creates so many things, and all those things are perfectly connected through balance and justice.Therefore, there are many things we have to let go (self) since unity (sunnatullah) is not equal to uniformity (nationalism).
and we need to learn how to assimilate (َ with life, just like nature.. Sunnatullah. -
The real issue is how we are able to speak the same language while maintaining our unique identity
This language is balance and justice to humanityI don't mean to unite all people in the single nation.
The main issue I want to talk about is The concept of modern Nationalism, Is this contradict the Quran or not? -
Peace,
2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the lore with the truth so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.
According to me this has nothing to do with nationalism. In the context it means that the difference in opinion separated the people into different factions. It is major "Abrahamic" religious splits I suppose, such as Jews and Christians, and nowadays the new religion Islam in case there would be another updated book release as of today. Anyway, all these people indulge in their conjecture while none of them are actually right, but they aggressively preach their faith proclaiming that just their faith is the one that will lead to salvation. This is the split of your nation you see in the above verse. If all Believers disregarding "religion" would unite under the same community or system then it would be "one nation" again, but the disagreements between the faiths makes this virtually impossible. The funny thing is that there is no such thing as different religions, there is just one God and one system, but there are different traditions of showing reverence to The Lord which is often misunderstood to create new "religions" or sects as I would call it, giving excuses to canonize traditions to turn them into such.
Regarding nationalism I think this only leads to excessive pride and people are usually proud over basically nothing worth being proud over. Pride should be "swallowed down" and act modestly is a better solution while still keeping high (moral) standards. Misinterpretations of The Book cause many people to think you should more or less be arrogant in your Faith. Who you are and how valuable your are in God's "eyes" depends on what you do and not what you say and how many prayers you perform per day. I can say I am a Muslim, eat halal food, and pray five times per day and go to Mecca, but I am not worth a shit because I do never do anything or very little right in the eyes of God. Sorry for the choice of words but they are that strong.
If you pray five times per day but spread mischief in between then you ought to think what kind of connection you have with God and if it is not non-existent.
Did not Shaytaan say "I am better than him!"? I hear and see a lot of "I am better than him" wherever I turn in this little world. Everyone of those are a little Shaytaan themselves.
God bless you
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I don't mean to unite all people in the single nation.
The main issue I want to talk about is The concept of modern Nationalism, Is this contradict the Quran or not?I am not a religious person and I see that it is not contradicting the Quran
all creatures have submitted to Allah.
O men! Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female
and have made you into nations and tribes
so that you might come to know one another
49.13 -
Peace Man of Faith
I agree with 2213 is not about state issues and the Arabic used for "nation" is ummah and this word also means people, community.
Regarding nationalism I think this only leads to excessive pride and people are usually proud over basically nothing worth being proud over.
Yes it's the pride with prejudice.
Nationalism is the main roots of national, territorial identity based on the political causes.This is the simple way for how a country is born.http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevideo_Convention
Whatever it says, there are many bads in practices, Ukraine conflict is one of the example.
Even a country itself is a democracy, but the main actors who controlled the state is still the regime/parliaments.The people don't 100% knowing how and what the regime do.
The example Is American knows what the Pentagon really do?Once again, I see the countries is just a formality.
It's a political play-game, you tried to get close on it, you will get involved no matter what. -
I am not a religious person and I see that it is not contradicting the Quran
So yu're an atheist then .
Quran is the parameter on this discussion, so I'm sorry for non-muslims. -
Yes, I am also an atheist
This mean yourself is not the believer of God and His Quran.
So sorry mister, you're not allowed to discuss in this thread ) -
Sorry Jafar if you're not Islam, I cannot go further to discuss with you.
The parameter of this discussion is still Quran and no other religious Scriptures, unless undefined conclusion will occurs.Ah, yes I am not among "Us", I am among "Them".
What I said is clearly evident in your own behavior.Religionism, Nationalism, Sectarianism etc.. etc.. etc.. is just a means for human to measure / gauge between "Us" and "Them".
If you disown Nationalism for such reason and why you set double standard for Religionism?
Sorry X if you're not Y you're not among US you're THEM thus I cannot Z with you, otherwise A will occurs.
Sorry Khalid if you're not American you're not among US you're THEM thus I cannot Employ You otherwise The Immigration office will kick my butt.
Sorry Joe if you're not Russian you're not among US you're THEM thus I cannot Grant You The Contract otherwise Putin will kick my butt.
Sorry Jim if you're not Catholic you're not among US you're THEM thus I cannot Give You The Free Meals otherwise The Pastor will kick my butt.
etc.. etc.. etc.. -
I'm open to discuss with people from any religious backgrounds, atheist, any races or etc
BUT
Religionism, Nationalism, Sectarianism etc.. etc.. etc.. is just a means for human to measure / gauge between "Us" and "Them".
If you disown Nationalism for such reason and why you set double standard for Religionism?
Yes I agree, but if we discuss outside of this forum.
Please to be realistic, this is free-minds.com, this forum purposed to discover true Islam not anyone else.
Second notice this Genneral Issues/Questions board's note
This area deals with any general questions/issues regarding God / Islam / Quran not covered under other headings.
And please read this forum rules point 2
2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to God and the study and understanding of His Scripture (The Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran, and/or not being able to back-up claims against the Quran with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0
May God bless you
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Please to be realistic, this is free-minds.com, this forum purposed to discover true Islam not anyone else.
And have you discovered what true islam is?
Or to you it's a 'social identity'? a 'labeling'?Denouncing Islamism/Religionism (and also nationalism, tribalism etc..) is actually a step towards that purpose.
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2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to God and the study and understanding of His Scripture (The Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran, and/or not being able to back-up claims against the Quran with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.
This definitely need to be revised.
As islam has no dependency towards Quran and God has no dependency towards Quran. -
And have you discovered what true islam is?
Or to you it's a 'social identity'? a 'labeling'?Denouncing Islamism/Religionism (and also nationalism, tribalism etc..) is actually a step towards that purpose.
Yes I already discovered it.
Islam is not social identity, label nor the political movements
Islam is the relation between human and God and how to became a proper being in the society.Label is just the name came from another people who see us.
I label you as Jafar because I see your name is Jafar (even actually not).As islam has no dependency towards Quran and God has no dependency towards Quran
.The word "Islam" itself came from the Quran and it's not even Arabic in gramatically.
Even someone attempted to translate it as "Submission" or "Peacemaker", it still wrong way according to Arabic grammar.Just like YHVH in Hebrew which has no meaning even it "sound Hebrew".