Was Rashad really a messenger?
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Peace,
One of the reasons why I hesitate to take him for a Messenger was that he said that everyone who died before the age of 40 will go to Heaven, and that disregarding the crime they committed before dieing.
He was not new about that there is something special about number 19. An Iranian man named Sayyid `Al? Muhammad Shirazi from a religious group practicing so-called B?bism discovered something mysterious about it in the 19th century and formed a religious group that was heavily suppressed and persecuted by the Shia majority leaders of old Persia. See for example http//i-cias.com/e.o/babism.htm. Rashad Khalifa was not a breakthrough in discovering about it as it had already been figured out about over a century earlier.
Note that this movement had similarities with what we call Quran-alone. Here is a quotation from the page mentioned above
"Every year all Babis between 11 and 42 years of age are expected to undergo a fast of one month (19 days). Prayers are not compulsory, but advisable, and can be performed without ablutions.
Women do not have to waer veils, and enjoy relative freedom.
Travelling is restricted, especially sea travel."So if you read up a bit about these early "19ers" you see that Rashad Khalifa was not exactly discovering anything new, but at best rediscovering something.
But as the same as with Rashad Khalifa I think they discovered something with it but their ego may have been driving them crazy. There is certainly a trap with number 19.
God bless you
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Peace Bookish.
Interesting question. However other questions needs to be answered first
Why does GOD need to send messengers?
Will GOD send messengers after the one who brought Qoran?
Now if we believe GOD s word is the truth, we must study it and find out the answers. Everyone needs to be sure that what they believe can be backed up by GOD S scripture.
Once you find out, there should be no hesitance or doubt, you must obey GOD, as GOD is clearly saying in the following verses
Surely, those who slide back, after the guidance has been manifested to them, the devil has enticed them and led them on.
This is because they said to those who hated what God has sent down, "We will obey you in certain matters." God fully knows their secret conspiracies.
How will it be for them when the angels put them to death? They will beat them on their faces and their rear ends.
This is because they followed what angered God and hated the things that please Him. Consequently, He has nullified their works.
Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that God will not bring out their evil thoughts?
If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. God is fully aware of all your works.
We will certainly put you to the test, in order to distinguish those among you who strive, and steadfastly persevere. We must expose your true qualities.
Those who disbelieve and repel from the path of God, and oppose the messenger after the guidance has been manifested for them, will never hurt God in the least. Instead, He nullifies their works.
O you who believe, you shall obey God, and obey the messenger. Otherwise, all your works will be in vain.On that day, the hypocrite men and women will say to those who believed, "Please allow us to absorb some of your light." It will be said, "Go back behind you, and seek light." A barrier will be set up between them, whose gate separates mercy on the inner side, from retribution on the outer side.
They will call upon them, "Were we not with you?" They will answer, "Yes, but you cheated your souls, hesitated, doubted, and became misled by wishful thinking, until God's judgment came. You were diverted from God by illusions.Do not obey the rejectors.
They wish that you compromise, so they too can compromise." `Among us are the submitters, and among us are the compromisers.' " As for those who submitted, they are on the right path.
As for the compromisers, they will be fuel for Gehenna.There are those who abuse the masjid by practicing idol worship, dividing the believers, and providing comfort to those who oppose God and His messenger. They solemnly swear "Our intentions are honorable!" God bears witness that they are liars.
You shall never pray in such a masjid. A masjid that is established on the basis of righteousness from the first day is more worthy of your praying therein. In it, there are people who love to be purified. God loves those who purify themselves.Most of them follow nothing but conjecture, and conjecture is no substitute for the truth. God is fully aware of everything they do.
We did not send before you any messenger, nor a prophet, without having the devil interfere in his wishes. God then nullifies what the devil has done. God perfects His revelations. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.
He thus sets up the devil's scheme as a test for those who harbor doubts in their hearts, and those whose hearts are hardened. The wicked must remain with the opposition.
Those who are blessed with knowledge will recognize the truth from your Lord, then believe in it, and their hearts will readily accept it. Most assuredly, God guides the believers in the right path.Have they failed to recognize their messenger? Is this why they are disregarding him?
Have they decided that he is crazy? Indeed, he has brought the truth to them, but most of them hate the truth.
Indeed, if the truth conformed to their wishes, there would be chaos in the heavens and the earth; everything in them would be corrupted. We have given them their proof, but they are disregarding their proof.The day will come when the transgressor will bite his hands (in anguish) and say, "Alas, I wish I had followed the path with the messenger.
"Alas, woe to me, I wish I did not take that person as a friend.
"He has led me away from the message after it came to me. Indeed, the devil lets down his human victims."The answer is in Qoran. Whatever you believe, make sure it is backed up by checking and double checking Qoran as GOD will question us about HIS scripture and messenger.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Was Rashad really a messenger?
This is a question that many have been asking and am no exception. The truth is that Rashad 's arguement and evidence despite being questionable bear so much strength that while it may be easy to reject him as an impostor, it is just as easy to embrace him. -
Thank you @bookish for this thread and this question.
I still do not know the final answer to it, but I can just say that without Dr. Rashad Khalifa's work I would never, ever even consider the possibility that Qur'an came from God without the mathematical proof and miracle of 19, from which many new discoveries flourish all the time lately.
Now, I am also very puzzled about the religious teachings he gave, since there are very argumentative new studies that contradict what he said. But I think that had he not been assassinated, had he a chance to live longer, he might have had corrected or changed some details about his religious teachings.
I consider that he made a huge start in revision and purification of the major monotheistic religions from centuries of corruption, and I admire that he spoke of the Bible as well as of Qur'an, and universalized the submission to God as religious posture of a neutral "nation".
To me he is certainly more important and more interesting and relevant messenger than many others, who go around but without honestly admitting and proclaiming their messengership...
Peace
PS
see for instance the newest extremely serious study and excellent presentation of Salat by a remarkable guy, a work which wouldn't be possible without invaluable groundwork and foundation of Dr. Rashas Khalifa, PhD and his discovery of mathematical structure and underlying principle and construction of the Qur'an and the number 19
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603111.msg348371#msg348371sun
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I love Rashad Khalifa. Whether he was a bona fide messenger will always be a mystery to me. I don't worry about my affirmations or doubts about his authenticity. God has a way of letting me know if I'm on the right track or not and it doesn't depend on believing on what Rashad taught outside of the Quran. But still, he's fascinating. I feel that I would have attended his masjid and supported his message.
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No.
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Peace .
Other interesting questions
What would the messenger look like?
Who chooses the messenger? Why?
What prevented the people from believing when the guidance came to them, is their saying, "Did God send a human being as a messenger?"
Messengers before you have been ridiculed; I permitted the disbelievers to carry on, then I punished them. How terrible was My retribution!
Lessons from the past are mostly ignored by the majority
Have you not heard about those before you - the people of Noah, `Aad, Thamoud, and others who came after them and known only to God? Their messengers went to them with clear proofs, but they treated them with contempt and said, "We disbelieve in what you are sent with. We are skeptical about your message; full of doubt."
Their messengers said, "Do you have doubts about God; the Initiator of the heavens and the earth? He invites you only to forgive your sins, and to give you another chance to redeem yourselves." They said, "You are no more than humans like us, who want to repel us from the way our parents used to worship. Show us some profound authority."
No more messengers will come . Ours is the last one?
Joseph had come to you before that with clear revelations, but you continued to doubt his message. Then, when he died you said, "God will not send any other messenger after him. (He was the last messenger)!" God thus sends astray those who are transgressors, doubtful.
However GOD keeps sending messengers
It is a predetermined command from us that we send messengers. O children of Adam, when messengers come to you from among you, and recite My revelations to you, those who take heed and lead a righteous life, will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
Also a more important question will be
What is the message from GOD that His messengers are bringing?We sent Noah to his people, saying, "O my people, worship God; you have no other god beside Him. I fear for you the retribution of an awesome day."
To `Aad we sent their brother Hood. He said, "O my people, worship God; you have no other god beside Him. Would you then observe righteousness?"
The arrogant leaders among his people said to the common people who believed, "How do you know that Saaleh is sent by his Lord?" They said, "The message he brought has made us believers."
Again what does a true messenger bring as message
..To Him ALONE we are submitters.
Say, "...To Him ALONE we are devoted."
"God is my Lord and your Lord; you shall serve/worship Him ALONE."
You shall worship God ALONE - do not associate anything with Him.
Only those who repent, reform, hold fast to God, and devote their religion absolutely to God ALONE, will be counted with the believers. God will bless the believers with a great recompense.
Such is God your Lord, there is no god except He, the Creator of all things. You shall serve/ worship Him ALONE. He is in control of all things.
Say, "My salat, my service/worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to God ALONE, the Lord of the universe.
Say, "My Lord advocates justice, and to stand devoted to Him ALONE at every place of service/worship. You shall devote your service/ worship absolutely to Him ALONE.
Say, "O people, if you have any doubt regarding my religion, I do not serve/worship what you serve/worship beside God. I serve/worship God ALONE;
"O my prison mates, are several gods better, or God ALONE, the One, the Supreme?
Say, "He is my Lord. There is no god except He. I put my trust in Him ALONE; to Him
is my ultimate destiny."To Him belongs everything in the heavens and the earth and therefore, the religion shall be devoted absolutely to Him ALONE.
We did not send any messenger before you except with the inspiration "There is no god except Me; you shall serve/worship Me ALONE."
Your congregation is but one congregation, and I ALONE am your Lord; you shall worship Me ALONE.
Only God's servants who are absolutely devoted to Him ALONE (will be saved).
We sent down to you this scripture, truthfully; you shall serve/worship God, devoting your religion to Him ALONE.
Say, "I have been commanded to serve/ worship God, devoting the religion absolutely to Him ALONE.
As for those who discard the worship of all idols, and devote themselves totally to God ALONE, they have deserved happiness.
When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.
He is the Living; there is no god except He. You shall serve/worship Him ALONE, devoting your religion absolutely to Him ALONE.
I did not create the jinns and the humans except to serve/worship Me ALONE.
And here is the interesting bit about false messengers
The devils can never reveal this. They neither would, nor could. For they are prevented from hearing
GOD bless.
Peace -
Peace good logic, you haven't clearly said what your thoughts are about Rashad.
Peace Man of faith, Babism surely seems to be based on 19 BUT they do not have the slightest hint about the mathematical pattern of the initials which was discovered during Rashad's time. You cannot say that the Babis discovered the pattern and Rashad re-discovered them.
As far as I know, Rashad was the first to discover the pattern. Babism simply seems to be obsessed over number 19.
I hope God does not penalize us for believing or not believing Rashad to be a messenger. I will probably always be in doubt about his messengership. You can make a powerful case both for and against his alleged messengership. God knows best....
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Peace Bookish.
Thank you for asking me to clarify . I will do so later in the post.
First, everyone needs to check and make up their own mind. You need to study Qoran and decide for yourself.
Also I have no authority nor am I a guardian /guide of anyone. I am responsible only for me.
Now , I personally believe RK was a messenger, helped by the creator to understand and deliver a message to this and future generations.
Why?
God in his immense mercy has spelled out the criteria in the Quran, so that the believers may recognize His messengers as well as reject false messengers who fail to meet the simple criteria. As believers we know that a person is either a messenger from God or he/she is not a messenger from God. In the latter case such claimants qualify as messengers of Satan.
Messengers before you have been rejected, and they steadfastly persevered in the face of rejection. They were persecuted until our victory came to them. Such is God's system that will never change. The history of My messengers thus sets the precedents for you.
The history of God?s messengers thus sets precedence for any future messenger/s.
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ADVOCATE GOD ALONE
God?s messenger will advocate worship of God alone and will abolish all forms of idolatry (759-92). -
NEVER ASKS FOR WAGES
God?s messenger never asks for wages for himself (3621). -
QURAN ALONE
Logic dictates that a messenger of God will uphold the Quran alone for religious law (6114) and not sanction religious regulations, which are not authorized in the Quran.
All the messenger claimants since Dr. Rashad Khalifa announced his messengership in 1988 claim to be within the confines of the above three criteria, but stand exposed as false messengers when it comes to the following additional criteria as spelled out in God?s words in the Quran.
- PROOF OF AUTHENTICITY
God?s messenger is given divine, clear, incontrovertible proof of his messengership. All of God?s messengers were supported with proof by God?s leave (7101, )
Moses staff turned into a serpent by God?s leave. Jesus healed the leprous and revived the dead by God?s leave. Saaleh?s proof was the camel. Abraham walked out of a fire by God?s leave.
God informs us that Muhammad?s miracle was the Quran (2950-51). God spells out the proof reserved for His messenger of the covenant as The Proof (381).
I - Separation of The Proof and the Quran
In the following verses,God separates the Quran and The Proof.
What we taught him (the messenger) was not poetry, nor is he (a poet). This is but a formidable proof, and a profound Quran.
S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proof.
Those who have rejected the Quran's proof when it came to them, have also rejected an Honorable book.
II ? The Proof was given to RK as his proof of authenticity as God?s messenger. By God?s leave he presented The Proof based on number nineteen (7430) to the world. God calls this proof as ?one of the great miracles? in verses 7435.
That is my understanding. For me The answer is very clear in the Quran.
- God sends messengers with PROOFS. e.g. 646; 5725; 4022, 4050, 4083 ; 3525; 1013; 970; 7101; 532; 3183, 3184.
- ONLY the Believers can appreciate or see these proofs. 2118
- The disbelievers do NOT see or appreciate any kind of proofs, 64, 625, 635; 2145; 7132, 7146; 1096-97; 3058; 3646; 3714; 542
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
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Peace good logic, you haven't clearly said what your thoughts are about Rashad.
Peace Man of faith, Babism surely seems to be based on 19 BUT they do not have the slightest hint about the mathematical pattern of the initials which was discovered during Rashad's time. You cannot say that the Babis discovered the pattern and Rashad re-discovered them.
As far as I know, Rashad was the first to discover the pattern. Babism simply seems to be obsessed over number 19.
I hope God does not penalize us for believing or not believing Rashad to be a messenger. I will probably always be in doubt about his messengership. You can make a powerful case both for and against his alleged messengership. God knows best....
Peace bookish,
Yes certainly, but there must be a reason why just number 19 become the number of obsession. They must have understood something about it. Okay. You are perhaps right that they did not extract their belief in 19 from The Book
Apart from that; in structure the Babism movement looked a lot like what we call "Quranism" today. They are quite intriguing. They were heavily suppressed by the Shia majority of 19th century Persia (Iran) and even massacred.
If we go off-topic; what we can confirm here is that there was more than only Rashad Khalifa who discovered that there was something special about number 19, in the past. Exactly from what they got it I have not understood yet, but they could be a sign for future observers who noticed Rashad Khalifa's discovery of a number pattern within The Book.
If we believe that Rashad Khalifa was no more than a human Messenger then I cannot believe that people will be doomed to Hell for thinking he came with a Message. But if we believe in his doubtful teachings then we might be in trouble. When he told people to follow only The Book and serve God alone he practically preached the Message.
I have always been a bit puzzled that he died 19 years after he had his alleged vision during his pilgrimage in 1971. The man could doubtfully have chosen his own year of death so that he would die exactly 19 years later.
And the guy was born November 19, 1935. He could not have chosen his own date of birth.
I might have seen very critical in my approach in the previous post, but I have never excluded the possibility that Mr. Khalifa may have been right about some things. And also there are actually some very potent 19 combinations in The Book quite easily identified. The 19 letters of the 'basmala' is an obvious one. That the gematrical value of 'wahed' (one) is 19 is also noteworthy.
I have also noticed, due to some talk that chapter 1 is not part of the original composition, that if you remove that one and combine chapter 9 into 8 (as some people have suggested) it leaves you with 112 chapters which is 16*7. Number seven carries a great mystery to say the least, almost more so than 19. It is an older mystery.
Note that oftentimes the Jesus' prayer "Our Father in Heaven" is counted as 7 verses and the same with the hymn in the beginning of chapter 1 in 'The Book' which is also 7 verses.
Nevertheless, I only keep being fascinated by these numbers and it merely boosts my Faith to see the connections. God's other signs are equally worth and I also feel the inspiration of prayers (Communion) give me personal reassurance.
God bless you
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Peace -
Rashad's unveiling of the 19 pattern is definitely worth mentioning
There is no pattern only statistically meaningless predictable multiples which can be found in any text using any number 7, 11, 19, 29, inversely proportional smaller numbers yield more and larger have less.
Btw, number is not written rather nineteen "entities" over feminine/it not Qur'an.
7430 over her nonet ten (i.e. group of nineteen)This is similar to group of nine entities spreading corruption...
2748 and be in the town nonet entourage spreading corruptionOtherwise nine (i.e. number) would be written as below...
17101 and indeed gave we Moses nine signs
3823 surely this one brother mine for him nine and ninetieth (99) ewe