The Quran was sent down in the 4th Century?
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Salam,
Very good explanation, I concur with you. As for the 7 sleepers, they did not die but slept for 300 years and thereafter, ALLAH woke them up. No where in the Quran that say they were raised from the dead! Can you explain and I thank you in advance.
People cannot survive 300 years in sleep. Biological processes need energy and we need to ingest food and water that provide for us the energy to survive. Even those patients with brain death take their required energy through devices.
Very interestingly, the Qur'an asserts that death is like a prolonged state of sleep
3942 (Only the living of the mind and heart can make choices in this world.) It is God Who takes their consciousness upon death, and of the living during their sleep. He withholds it for those upon whom He has passed the decree of death, and restores the others until an appointed time (according to His laws). Herein are signs for people who think.
660 He suspends your consciousness during sleep at night, and knows what you do by day, when awake. He resurrects you every morning until your life span is completed. Death is, likewise, a temporary suspension of consciousness and afterward to Him is your return (3942). Then, He will inform you of what you really accomplished.
3651 And when the Trumpet is blown, out of their disintegrated states to their Lord they will run.
3652 They will say, ?Oh, woe to us! Who has awakened us from our beds of sleep? This is what the Beneficent promised, and the Messengers spoke the truth.?
Regarding the chain of messengers, I would suggest you read brother Pazuzu's posts on this forum as he claims that all the prophets mentioned in the Qur'an must have come from a same place which is probably Yemen and South Western Arabia.
All the prophets named in the Qur'an, spoke languages that were related to the Arabic of the Qur'an.
Persian is an Endo-European language different from Arabic that is an Afro-Asiatic language.
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To my knowledge, with regard to people of the cave there is no mention of 300 years in Quran.
source"]5)
Fa darabna AAala athanihim fee al kahfi sineena AAadadan = So We sealed/covered on/over their ears in the cave some yearsThe verse is literally saying the effect of "DRB on/over their ears in the cave" lasted several years. This seems to suggest God kept them isolated in the cave, when they were hiding out, thus cut off from the outside world. Mustansir Mir in "Verbal Idioms of The Qur'an" says it is an idiom meaning to prevent someone from hearing something, sealing off, or put to sleep. The only other related example in which DRB with something is done on/over something else is 2431, when covers are cast over chests.
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Salam
People cannot survive 300 years in sleep. Biological processes need energy and we need to ingest food and water that provide for us the energy to survive. Even those patients with brain death take their required energy through devices.
Very interestingly, the Qur'an asserts that death is like a prolonged state of sleep
3942 (Only the living of the mind and heart can make choices in this world.) It is God Who takes their consciousness upon death, and of the living during their sleep. He withholds it for those upon whom He has passed the decree of death, and restores the others until an appointed time (according to His laws). Herein are signs for people who think.
660 He suspends your consciousness during sleep at night, and knows what you do by day, when awake. He resurrects you every morning until your life span is completed. Death is, likewise, a temporary suspension of consciousness and afterward to Him is your return (3942). Then, He will inform you of what you really accomplished.
3651 And when the Trumpet is blown, out of their disintegrated states to their Lord they will run.
3652 They will say, ?Oh, woe to us! Who has awakened us from our beds of sleep? This is what the Beneficent promised, and the Messengers spoke the truth.?
AQ.1818 - And you would think them awake, while they were asleep. And We turned them to the right and to the left, while their dog stretched his forelegs at the entrance. If you had looked at them, you would have turned from them in flight and been filled by them with terror.
These are not signs of dead men but men who slept and unknowingly turn their bodies to the right and left - ALLAH suspend their conscientiousness during sleep for 300 years. ALLAH CAN DO WONDERS.
AQ.4506 - These are the verses of ALLAH which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?
Regarding the chain of messengers, I would suggest you read brother Pazuzu's posts on this forum as he claims that all the prophets mentioned in the Qur'an must have come from a same place which is probably Yemen and South Western Arabia.
I have read his works and respect them. In fact, it was Pazuzu who provide me very important information to my research pertaining to the migration of the Prophet, which is actually to Yemen and not as what the Hadith said. But I do not agreed with him pertaining to the abovementioned. The Quran stated 3775 to 138, where we are told that the Prophet passed by the sites, of where the prophets mentioned in these said verses, resided. These prophets were Nuh, Abraham, Ishaq, Musa, Harun, Alyasin and Lut. Why only some of the said prophets mentioned in 0683 to 86, where were the others, 11 prophets? I did ask him but no response!
Peace
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Salam,
ALLAH CAN DO WONDERS.
Dear brother,
Of course, Allah can do wonders. But Allah has established Himself upon the Laws He has applied to the current Universe. He is not going to violate those laws in order for some foolish people to believe in Him.
Please reflect on these Qur'anic verses
10101 Say, ?Look and ponder what is in the heavens and earth! No miracles and no warnings will help those people who have chosen to disbelieve.
6109 They swear by God that if a miracle comes to them, they would believe in it (the Book). Say, ?All miracles are with God (if you reflect on the Universe). What can make you understand that even if a physical miracle came to them, they would find other excuses and still not believe?
6110 Our law keeps their hearts and their eyes turned away from the truth. Since they have preemptively rejected it (the Qur'an), We let them wander blindly in their rebellious attitude.
6111 Even if We caused the angels to descend to them, and the dead to speak to them, and lined up all the miracles before them, they would not believe. People can be guided only according to God's laws, but most of them choose the way of ignorance.
What we deem as miracles (supernatural events) in the Qur'an are either our misunderstanding, lack of knowledge or our blind insistence on the Biblical teachings.
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Peace Virtuorvice
I am curious how you explain for example
1--The birth of Jesus?
2- The parting of the sea for Moses?...
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Virtuorvice
I am curious how you explain for example
1--The birth of Jesus?
2- The parting of the sea for Moses?...
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salam,
There was no sea and there was no parting of the sea. Moses managed to find a way to cross a river while Pharaoh and his companions failed to do so.
Isa was born like all the other humans combination of a male and female gamete- which means Isa has a biological father and mother like every other human being on this planet.
As I mentioned in my previous post, many of our misconceptions about the messengers before Muhammad (S) originate from the Bible. There's no mention of miracles and supernatural phenomena in the Qur'an while the Bible is full of miracles and supernatural phenomena.
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peace all,
Re The birth of Jesus?
This could be explained by the hermaphrodite theory - search forum for further info.Re The parting of the sea for Moses?
This could be explained by the phenomenon of pre-tsunami whereupon water recedes rapidly then rushes in rapidly, or a phenomenon called wind set-down.Or something else, obviously. Since we don't know everything. Just some thoughts.
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Peace Virtueorvice.
"Isa was born like all the other humans combination of a male and female gamete- which means Isa has a biological father and mother like every other human being on this planet".
How about
1920
She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."There was no male combination?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
First we need to define "miracle"
Definition of miracle (n)
Bing Dictionary
mir?a?cle1.act of God an event that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature and is regarded as an act of God
2.amazing event an event or action that is amazing, extraordinary, or unexpected
3.marvelous example something admired as a marvelous creation or example of a particular type of science or skill
definition #1. act of God an event that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature and is regarded as an act of God
Applying definition #1 qualifies both Adam and Jesus both as miracles
Adam had no mother or father while Jesus had no father. Both created without sexual intercourse.
God bless
peace
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Salam,
Peace Virtueorvice.
"Isa was born like all the other humans combination of a male and female gamete- which means Isa has a biological father and mother like every other human being on this planet".
How about
1920
She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."There was no male combination?
GOD bless you.
Peace.1920 She said, "How can I have a son when no man has ever (intimately) touched me? For, never have I been a loose woman!?
1921 The angel answered Thus it is - Your Lord says, ?It is easy for Me, so that We make him a symbol for people and a grace from Us. And it is a thing decreed.?OK! Maryam wasn't unchaste; after some time she found a husband and married him and bore a child. Only they were living away from their original community.
The Qur'an doesn't say the Isa was born out of a virgin, it only narrates the declaration of the news of a son (Isa) to Maryam!
Consider this
Someone tells a female that she will have a daughter. The female exclaims that she is not dating someone and has no man in her life. After some years the female bears a daughter- so, should we consider that she was a virgin or that she dated some guy, married him and then get impregnated?!
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Peace,
First we need to define "miracle"
Definition of miracle (n)
Bing Dictionary
mir?a?cle1.act of God an event that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature and is regarded as an act of God
2.amazing event an event or action that is amazing, extraordinary, or unexpected
3.marvelous example something admired as a marvelous creation or example of a particular type of science or skill
definition #1. act of God an event that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature and is regarded as an act of God
Applying definition #1 qualifies both Adam and Jesus both as miracles
Adam had no mother or father while Jesus had no father. Both created without sexual intercourse.
God bless
peace
Peace Brother hawk99,
Explicit explanation.
Peace Bro vov,
No offence but are you clear now?
ALLAH BLESS US ALL pr
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Peace Virtueorvice.
Not only Mary had a virgin birth, there were few other " miracles" in this version!!!
345
The angels said, "O Mary, God gives you good news a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'346
"He will speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult; he will be one of the righteous."347
She said, "My Lord, how can I have a son, when no man has touched me?" He said, "God thus creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He simply says to it, `Be,' and it is.348
"He will teach him the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel."349
As a messenger to the Children of Israel "I come to you with a sign from your Lord - I create for you from clay the shape of a bird, then I blow into it, and it becomes a live bird by God's leave. I restore vision to the blind, heal the leprous, and I revive the dead by God's leave. I can tell you what you eat, and what you store in your homes. This should be a proof for you, if you are believers.GOD s Science is much more advanced than ours?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
This is a reply to the Virgin Birth Myth I paste here from another forum
You may want to read this about how Allah creates and the virgin birth fairy tale copied from the deviant Christian belief which was copied from the deviant pagans. We Muslims did a lot of copying; when and how this happened is a matter for history but thankfully we have the pure Quran to judge what is wrong with our beliefs and remove them.
BE Kun Fayakoon
There are fewer words smaller than this one, and you would expect that it is an easy task to work out its meaning, but it is so misunderstood by some Muslims that it beggars belief! If they cannot get this right, then what about three or more syllable words? Oops! Failed on them as well!
If you are thinking that all Allah has to say is Be and it happens, then read and learn what the whole Qur'an has to say on this minutiae word. Allah said man should be created and he popped up, naked and fully formed, just like that, Jesus popped into existence, hallelujah! This pulling of a rabbit out of a hat does not happen like this so now I must prove it.
Allah creates in the realm of the uncreated and this is manifested in the created universe but He does not change a law by way of miracles etc but uses what is in the universe, which He created, to fullfil this plan. NO MIRACLES.
634 messengers before you, were denied and opposed. They steadfastly faced persecution until Our help reached them. There is none to alter the decisions, Laws and Words of God. Some history of the messengers has already come to you and sets examples for you.
635 If their turning aside is troublesome for you, then if you were able to dig a tunnel in the ground, or climbed a ladder to the sky and brought them a miracle (they still would not believe). If it were Gods Will, He could assemble them together unto true Guidance. So, do not be among those who are swayed by ignorance (about free will given to humans).
636 Only those can accept the Truth who hear and listen with an open mind (10100). The living dead will only hear when God raises them (to use their faculties (2260), or when God will raise them to the second life. Ultimately, unto Him they be returned.
637 They say, If only a miracle could come down to him from his Lord! Say, God surely has the Power to send down a miracle, but most of them do not use their knowledge.
Now a normal translation of a miraculous BE event-
In Surah 3 verses 43-47, Yusuf Ali states-
- Behold! The angels said "O Mary! Allah has chosen you and purified you; chosen you above the women of all nations.
- "O Mary! Worship Your Lord devoutly Prostrate yourself, and bow down with those who bow down."
- This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal to you (O Messenger) by inspiration You were not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary Nor were you with them when they disputed (the point).
- When the angels said; O Mary! Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and in the hereafter, and one of those brought near (to Allah).
- He will speak to mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous. She said; O my Sustainer! How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me? (The angel) answered Thus it is Allah creates what He wills when He wills a thing to be, He but says unto it, Beand it is.
So where else does the Qur'an use this word-
2117 The Originator of the heavens and earth when He wills a thing to be, He but says to it Be and it is.
2118 Only those who fail to explore the realm of knowledge say, Why does God not speak to us directly, nor is a miracle shown to us? Even thus, as they now speak, spoke those who lived before their times. Their ways of thinking, their hearts and minds are all alike (untouched by the passage of time). We have made clear all the Signs for those who wish to attain conviction
673 And He is the One Who has created the heavens and earth with a definite purpose. Whenever He says Be! it is. His Word is the truth. And His will be the Dominion on the Day the Trumpet (of Resurrection) is blown. Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, for, He is the Wise, the Aware.
1638 They most strongly swear by God that He will not raise the dead. Nay, but it is a promise binding upon Him in truth, but most people do not make use of whatever they know.
1639 He will then make them understand wherein they differed, and the rejecters will realize that they were liars.
1640 Whenever We will anything to be, We say to it Our Word, Be and it is.
1641 Those who emigrate in the cause of God because they were oppressed, We shall give them good lodging in the world, and the reward of the Hereafter is greater, if they but knew.
1642 They have been steadfast, and have put their trust in their Sustainer.
3679 Say, He Who brought them into being in the first instance, will revive them again. He is the Profound Knower of all creation.
3680 (The same Creator) Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, so that you kindle from it.
3681 Is not He Who created the heavens and earth Able to create the like of them? Yes indeed! For, He is the Creator, Knower of all acts of creation.
3682 When He intends a thing, His only command to it is Be and it is.
3683 Glorified is He in Whose Hand rests the Mighty Dominion over all things, and to Him you will be brought back.
4070 Those who reject the Book (Al-Quran), are in fact, denying all revelations with which We sent Our Messenger. But, in time they will come to know (what they had denied.)
4071 When they will have shackles around their necks, and the chains (of their own making), they will be dragged along,
4072 Into the boiling fluid (as they were floating from desire to desire), and, then, they are cast into the fire (of their own making).
4073 And then, they will be asked, "Where are those whom you made partners,
4074 Besides God?" They will groan, "They have failed us miserably. Nay, rather, we were calling upon what never existed. This is how God leaves to stray, those who deny the truth.
4075 This is because in your life on the earth you used to take delight in what was not True, and roamed about haughtily with your false doctrines.
4076 Enter the gates of Hell to abide therein. What a miserable abode for the arrogant!
Read these verses. It is stating that Allah is the originator of all that is in the universe. He created the heavens and earth and made us from sperm and the ovum. But the observation by astronomers that the Universe is still undergoing change by way of expansion and the formation of suns and planets out of interstellar gases shows that Allah did not create it all in one single and completed step but allowed for its creation AND development. This is confirmed in the Qur'an which describes the universe being created from a process resembling the "big bang theory" and then the long process where the original matter was smoke or particles which coalesced to form the stars and planets.
2130 Are the disbelievers not aware that the heavens and earth used to be one solid mass and We exploded them asunder? And that out of water We made every living thing? Will they not, then, acknowledge the truth?
4111 Likewise, He is the One Who designed well the Sky when it was Smoke (Nebulae of gas). And He said to it and the earth, "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We do come, obedient."
Why not create the whole universe in one single step? Why the development in stages? If Allah did all this in the way He has said and how science has proved it happened, then the same can be said for the creation and evolution of life and the ultimate pinnacle of this process, Mankind (well some of us!). Be has to be understood in this way and not in the way it has been corrupted by scholars who have other agendas. Be is not an unnatural act, but a natural process for something to happen.
In the following verse, Yusuf Ali has translated it in a way to show that Allah has impregnated all the females in earth-
Surah 2 verse 228 (Y. Ali)
Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah has created in their wombs,Only a those from Tablighi Jamaat are going to believe this is true! Instead, common sense and a little gynaecology tell us that we men have a part to play! So when faced with a verse or word that looks problematic to interpret and understand, use your head and think.
Does the Qur'an contradict itself? As you know, or should know, the Qur'an will not say something in one place and contradict this in another. So read the following-
BE IN THE QURAN
673 And He is the One Who has created the heavens and earth with a definite purpose. Whenever He says Be! it is. His Word is the truth. And His will be the Dominion on the Day the Trumpet (of Resurrection) is blown. Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, for, He is the Wise, the Aware.
Whenever Allah gives a Command, His instructions are fulfilled. If you think the whole of the universe was created in its present state, fully completed earth, Sun, stars etc, then read what Be actually involves-
2130 Are the disbelievers not aware that the heavens and earth used to be one solid mass and We exploded them asunder? And that out of water We made every living thing? Will they not, then, acknowledge the truth?
A process is set in motion so that it was created and went through an evolving stages; so when Allah said Mary will have a child, this meant she will marry and have one, not that He will put it in her!!
EVERYTHING IN PAIRS
3511 (Recall your common humble origin.) God created you from dust, then from male and female gametes, and then He makes you pairs. And no female becomes pregnant, nor gives birth without His knowledge (according to His appointed science, without exceptions). No one lives long, and no one lives short, but by His Law. Indeed, all this is easy for God.
3636 Glory to Him Who has created pairs of everything that the earth grows, and of themselves, and of things they have no knowledge yet.
4211 Originator of the heavens and the earth! He has given you mates of your own kind; and mates among the cattle. By this means He multiplies you (creation). However, there is nothing whatsoever like unto Him. And He is the Hearer, the Seer.
4913 O Mankind! Indeed, We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes so that you might (affectionately) come to know one another. Surely, the most honoured among you, in the Sight of God, is the one who is best in conduct. Indeed, God is Knower, Aware.
5148 And We have spread out the earth, and how excellent a Spreader We are!
5149 And all things We created in pairs and in opposites (such that one complements the other), so that you may reflect.
5345 And that He it is Who creates the two companions, the male and the female (pairs and opposites among His creation),
5346 From gametes that unite.Pairs, mates, you do not need Grays Anatomy to work this one out! Here Allah confirms that all human beings are born from the union of pairs, male and female. If you take the meaning that Jesus did not have a natural father then you are, may Allah forgive you, contradicting what Allah has said in these verses!
Mrs God?
6101 Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth; HOW CAN HE HAVE A SON WHEN HE NEVER CHOSE FOR HIMSELF A MATE? He creates all things (and does not procreate 1123.) and He is the Profound Knower of all things and events.
How can Allah have a son when He has no wife? The question is so absurd that we Muslims laugh at the thought of a Mrs God sitting next to Allah (or the blasphemous notion, however much the Christians want to wriggle with words and meanings, of Mary being the mother of God!)! IF ALLAH SAYS THAT HE CANNOT HAVE A SON BECAUSE HE HAS NO WIFE, THEN HOW CAN A WOMAN HAVE A SON WITHOUT A HUSBAND? Believe and follow the truth and it will be for the good of your own soul; or continue in ignorance and blindness and you will have a very hot future in Hellfire.
THE ULTIMATE CRITERION
Surah 112
Say He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begets not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.Allah does not beget, He does not impregnate earthly females like the gods of Greece or Rome etc are said to do! Do not try to imagine what Allah is, you can never do so.
Read the whole of the Qur'an with a clean mind to get the complete picture; anything else is SHIRK.
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Peace Virtueorvice.
You know what the next question is
How was the first human/s( in case of two,a man and woman)created?
By the way ,many of the verses quoted there are out of context! Every creation is a miracle to us because we have not witnessed any of it.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Existence is in itself a miracle. What kind of miracle can one expect after that. And agree that the Qur'an does not uphold "miracles" but God's power to do anything He wills.
The question about Maryam is indeed that there is nothing in the Qur'an that says such a thing as that she became a mother while being a virgin. And I agree that the kun ga yakun does not hint at any virginity at all. All people are born because God says kun. Anything that exists it is because God says kun. The greatest argument put forth by the virginists is that she says how is she going to have child when she knows no male. If the text had said that she gave birth next day e might have thought about a prodigy, but the text does not say so nor points to anything out of the ordinary. It does not give any delays as to the interval between one thing and another just as it does in so many Qur'an narrations.
Indeed, it is the christian doctrine that is inset in the Qur'an and gives a weird turn to the Qur'an narration that doe snot point itself to anything out of the natural order. It is like inthe old days or even today anongst some people that some man thought he was going to marry this girl and suddenly whe changes her mind and goes into a convent. The same thing but the othe rway around, Maryam leaves the convent and becomes a mother, but the man is unknown and nothing is said about it or how it happened. Instead we have a single mother as so many single mothers there has been and there are in the history of humanity. Of course, being a single mother and being pointed at is not as rosy as a virgin birth in a manger with a cow and a donkey and the angels and a surrogate father and the shpherds. Nothing rosy in the narration of Maryam motherhood in the Qur'an. Where dis she get it? God does not want us to know. We do not need to know, we need to know Maryam, prophet Maryam, who brought the message no male could have brought.
Salaam
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Peace with you all, sun
I'm following this very interesting topic and thanks for good thoughts about.
I don't think that Gods' Law contradict Marys' pregnancy. In the nature you will find plants and animals that reproduce with parthenogenesis. By human this process is very difficult to happen but there are scientific researches on this field; few women in England reported pregnancy without sexual intercourse. There are also few cases in some other countries to find also.God know the best!
