The Quran was sent down in the 4th Century?
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I found Quranic evidence which proofs that the history of Islam need to be revamp hmm. I am not sure about this and that if anyone can shed some lights !
High possibility that Prophet Muhammad, was born before the 4th Century of the Common Era and the Holy Quran was sent down in the 4th Century in order to counter the distortion of the 1st Book of ALLAH, which comprises of the Torah and Injeel by the Roman Christians as confirmed by the Quranic verse below
Peace Hizbullah,
If you are comfortable using historical references a good question would be "who was emperor of Rome during
Muhammad's lifetime" since Rome and other nations had many references to the Roman empire. You could also
compare other rulers, wars that were fought, or who received letters from Muhammad etc.,.God bless
peace
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If you are comfortable using historical references a good question would be "who was emperor of Rome during Muhammad's lifetime" since Rome and other nations had many references to the Roman Empire. You could also compare other rulers, wars that were fought, or who received letters from Muhammad etc.,.
Peace hawk99r
Yes, it is a good question. However, the Quran never mentioned the names of the Emperors of the Roman Empire nor any exchange of letters between the leaders. But the Quran possibly recorded down the speech of these people or events relating to war. For example the Quran mentioned about the Romans in Chapter 30.
- Alif Lam Mim. 2. Victorious the Romans. 3. In the LOW LAND, and they, after their victory, will be defeated. 4. In a few years. The decision of the matter, before and after is only with ALLAH. And on that day, the believers will rejoice. 5. With the help of ALLAH. He helps whom He wills, and HE is the All-Mighty, the Most Merciful. 6. A promise from ALLAH, and ALLAH fails not in HIS promise, but most men know not.
The above military campaign is also recorded in collaboration with Quran 0841 ? 42
.....if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the Day of Criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent.
When you were on the near side of the enemy, and they were on the farther side of the enemy, and the caravan was LOWER than you. If you had made an appointment, you would have missed the appointment. But so that Allah might accomplish a matter already destined - that those who perished would perish upon evidence and those who lived would live upon evidence; and indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
The above military campaign carried out by the Prophet is also recorded in the Quran 03152 to 155.
Historical evidence also proofs that the Roman empire was in a deteriorate position in the 4th Century, especially in the western part of the Empire where the Germanic tribes revolted against the Romans. Another Roman enemy was Attila the Hun, was the ruler of the Huns from 434 until his death in 453. He was leader of the Hunnic Empire , which stretched from the Ural River to the Rhine River and from the Danube River to the Baltic Sea .During his reign he was one of the most feared enemies of the Western and Eastern Roman Empires. He crossed the Danube twice and plundered the Balkans , but was unable to take Constantinople . His unsuccessful campaign in Persia was followed in 441 by an invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire, the success of which emboldened Attila to invade the West . He also attempted to conquer Roman Gaul (modern France), crossing the Rhine in 451 and marching as far as Aurelianum (Orl?ans ) before being defeated at the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.
Peace
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In fact the Qur'an does not use any of those words for Maryam, or for anybody else, nor there is a single word that Maryam uses to say that she is chaste. It uses a negative, "I am not baghiya" (translated as "unchaste". The virgin part up to that point she makes it clear saying that "no basharhas touched me".
The word BAGHIYA, means promiscuous woman. So Maryam said "Nor am I a promiscuous woman". This proofs that she was not a "loose woman" as per your post 52
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Peace Hizbullah,
Historical evidence also proofs that the Roman empire was in a deteriorate position in the 4th Century, especially in the western part of the Empire where the Germanic tribes revolted against the Romans. Another Roman enemy was Attila the Hun, was the ruler of the Huns from 434 until his death in 453. He was leader of the Hunnic Empire , which stretched from the Ural River to the Rhine River and from the Danube River to the Baltic Sea .During his reign he was one of the most feared enemies of the Western and Eastern Roman Empires. He crossed the Danube twice and plundered the Balkans , but was unable to take Constantinople . His unsuccessful campaign in Persia was followed in 441 by an invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire, the success of which emboldened Attila to invade the West . He also attempted to conquer Roman Gaul (modern France), crossing the Rhine in 451 and marching as far as Aurelianum (Orl?ans ) before being defeated at the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.
Here you allow historical evidence.
However, the Quran never mentioned the names of the Emperors of the Roman Empire nor any exchange of letters between the leaders.
Here you disallow historical evidence.
God bless
peace
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Peace hawk99r
Yes, it is a good question. However, the Quran never mentioned the names of the Emperors of the Roman Empire nor any exchange of letters between the leaders. But the Quran possibly recorded down the speech of these people or events relating to war. For example the Quran mentioned about the Romans in Chapter 30.
- Alif Lam Mim. 2. Victorious the Romans. 3. In the LOW LAND, and they, after their victory, will be defeated. 4. In a few years. The decision of the matter, before and after is only with ALLAH. And on that day, the believers will rejoice. 5. With the help of ALLAH. He helps whom He wills, and HE is the All-Mighty, the Most Merciful. 6. A promise from ALLAH, and ALLAH fails not in HIS promise, but most men know not.
The above military campaign is also recorded in collaboration with Quran 0841 ? 42
.....if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the Day of Criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent.
When you were on the near side of the enemy, and they were on the farther side of the enemy, and the caravan was LOWER than you. If you had made an appointment, you would have missed the appointment. But so that Allah might accomplish a matter already destined - that those who perished would perish upon evidence and those who lived would live upon evidence; and indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
The above military campaign carried out by the Prophet is also recorded in the Quran 03152 to 155.
Historical evidence also proofs that the Roman empire was in a deteriorate position in the 4th Century, especially in the western part of the Empire where the Germanic tribes revolted against the Romans. Another Roman enemy was Attila the Hun, was the ruler of the Huns from 434 until his death in 453. He was leader of the Hunnic Empire , which stretched from the Ural River to the Rhine River and from the Danube River to the Baltic Sea .During his reign he was one of the most feared enemies of the Western and Eastern Roman Empires. He crossed the Danube twice and plundered the Balkans , but was unable to take Constantinople . His unsuccessful campaign in Persia was followed in 441 by an invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire, the success of which emboldened Attila to invade the West . He also attempted to conquer Roman Gaul (modern France), crossing the Rhine in 451 and marching as far as Aurelianum (Orl?ans ) before being defeated at the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.
Peace
Salaam,
Red If you could read Arabic instead of depending on English you could know that both Arabic words are different.
As per your translation above, the Arabic words in the aayaat are
For 'low land' .
For 'lower' .May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
...Historical evidence from the earliest Christian version of this story comes from the Syrian bishop, Jacob of Sarugh (c. 450-521), in the 6th-century.
Another significant Quranic proof ?
AQ 1825 - And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine
Historical evidence shows that the persecution of the so called Christians in the Roman Empire occurred over a period of about three centuries until the 313 Edict of Milan issued by Emperors Constantine and Licinius. This was the beginning of the era of official Christianity. A new religion was born. The Sleepers of the Cave slept in the year 13 and woke up 300 years later, in the year 313. 313 CE was the period where the persecutions to the believers stop. ALLAH THE EXALTED extended the lives of the Sleepers to another 9 years. They died in year 322. The 1st Nicene Creed was in the year 325.
Peace -
conjecture
1825 and remained they in cave theirs three hundred seasons and add they nine ofanswer
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they for him unseen the heavens and the earth sees in it and hears not for them from besides him from guardian and not associate/shares in commands his anyone ofThe Chronicle of James of Edessa
http//www.tertullian.org/fathers/james_of_edessa_chronicle_02_canon.htmand Mohammed goes down for purposes of trade to the country of Palestine, Arabia, Phoenicia and Tyre.
There was an eclipse of the sun.
Eclipse Data, for the 613 July 23 solar eclipse.
http//eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=06010310The Persians carried off captives from the whole of the land of the Romans as far as Bithynia and Asia and as far as the sea of Pontus and devastated it.
Battle of Antioch (613 CE) Persians defeat Byzantines/Romans
Battle of Issus (622 CE) Byzantines/Romans defeat PersiansThe kingdom of the Arabs, whom we call Saracens (1), began when Heraclius, Emperor of the Romans, had reached (2) his 11th year, and Khosrau, King of the Persians, his 31st year.
301 alif-lam-meem
302 overpowered/defeated the Romans
303 in lowest the earth and they from after overpower/defeat theirs are overpowering/victorious
304 in several (i.e. 3-9) seasons to god the directive from before and from after and that day rejoice the believing -
Peace Hizbullah,
Here you allow historical evidence.
Here you disallow historical evidence.
God bless
peace
Peace hawk99
The Quran is the verification of all past truths. The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods whose content is measured in relation to the Quran. That goes for history of this world. If these finds verification in the Quran then it is declared true. However if it is negated by the Quran then it is surely false. It is not for me to allow or disallow
Peace
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Salaam,
Red If you could read Arabic instead of depending on English you could know that both Arabic words are different.
As per your translation above, the Arabic words in the aayaat are
For 'low land' .
For 'lower' .The words are different but they have the same meaning.
Peace
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Peace -
conjecture
1825 and remained they in cave theirs three hundred seasons and add they nine ofYou translation are right, however from the verse it deduce that they did stayed for 300 years as per the Knowledge of ALLAH. Those who came after them was the ones who differ.
Below are conjectures
The Chronicle of James of Edessa
http//www.tertullian.org/fathers/james_of_edessa_chronicle_02_canon.htm
Eclipse Data, for the 613 July 23 solar eclipse.
http//eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=06010310Battle of Antioch (613 CE) Persians defeat Byzantines/Romans
Battle of Issus (622 CE) Byzantines/Romans defeat PersiansPeace
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You translation are right, however from the verse it deduce that they did stayed for 300 years as per the Knowledge of ALLAH. Those who came after them was the ones who differ.
No, that's conjecture same as "they" were conjecturing in the verse...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934
1825 .. and increase they nine of
The answer to assumptive speculation and conjecture is given thus...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
See exact same word usage in below verse ...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
390 ... furthermore increase they disbelief/rejection of
Below are conjectures
You believe Heraclius/Byzantium and Khosrau/Persia, eclipse and battle in 613 was all conjecture, chronology a lie?
http//eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=06010310
http//www.drdoak.com/World_Misc/613_heraclius.jpg
http//www.cngcoins.com/photos/big/81000748.jpg
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No, that's conjecture same as "they" were conjecturing in the verse...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934
1825 .. and increase they nine of
The answer to assumptive speculation and conjecture is given thus...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
See exact same word usage in below verse ...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
Salam,
I know what you meant, let me explain my point
AQ 1825 - And they tarried in the Cave three hundred years, and they added nine more.
The red sentence - ALLAH confirms that they live in the cave for 300 years and green sentence - that they added another 9 years to how long the sleepers had live in the cave.
Say 'God knows very well how long they tarried. To Him belongs the Unseen in the heavens and in the earth. How well He sees! How well He hears! They have no protector, apart from Him, and He associates in His government no one.'
The prophet was asked to say that ALLAH knows well how long they had lived. That ALLAH was there as a witness.
390 ... furthermore increase they disbelief/rejection of
You believe Heraclius/Byzantium and Khosrau/Persia, eclipse and battle in 613 was all conjecture, chronology a lie?
http//eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=06010310
http//www.drdoak.com/World_Misc/613_heraclius.jpg
http//www.cngcoins.com/photos/big/81000748.jpg
What about the verse I had shown in Post 1, if the Prophet lived in the 7th Century, that means the Quran was sent 300 years after Nicea, why is it in the PRESENT TENSE AND NOT PAST TENSE. Please explain to me, thank you in advance.
No where in the Quran that mentioned about the Persians. The Persian Empire had already been destroyed by the Greco-Romans in the 300 BC. The Greco-Romans were the super power of the ME from Britanica to the Indus River Valley! Greco-Romans edicts were found in Afghanistan.
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/AsokaKandahar.jpg/170px-AsokaKandahar.jpg
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Tetradrachm_Eukratides.jpg/170px-Tetradrachm_Eukratides.jpg
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Heraios.jpg/170px-Heraios.jpg
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Peace hawk99
The Quran is the verification of all past truths. The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods whose content is measured in relation to the Quran. That goes for history of this world.
Agreed
If these finds verification in the Quran then it is declared true. However if it is negated by the Quran then it is surely false. It is not for me to allow or disallow
I'm fine with historical references, but there is no Attila the Hun and his borders as per Quran! You should have
simply stated " an unsubstantiated person". To solve this problem allow historical references that do not contradict
the Quran (like letters and other historical documents, add a grain of salt ( meaning, 'with reservations, skeptically' )
and then leave the findings for the reader to accept or reject.Still you are finding your verification of the Qurans origin by highlighting the Counsel of Nicaea, if that were the case,
one might argue that the Quran could have been written earlier than the date you quote by using previous biblical
apocryphal Gospels texts and translations Therefore in the end you end up attributing the Qurans origin to dates
not supported by Quran but only via speculation. 2/79 in my opinion does not support your thesis.God bless
peace
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Agreed
You agreed
Still you are finding your verification of the Qurans origin by highlighting the Counsel of Nicaea, if that were the case,
one might argue that the Quran could have been written earlier than the date you quote by using previous biblical
apocryphal Gospels texts and translations Therefore in the end you end up attributing the Qurans origin to dates
not supported by Quran but only via speculation. 2/79 in my opinion does not support your thesis.and now you do not? Tell me why 0279 and 0378 are written in the imperfect tense if the Quran was sent down in the 7th Century as believe by 90% of the Muslims ?
Why did the Prophet warned the people to uphold the Taurat and Injeel and what is sent down to the Prophet (056 - ?
Why did the Prophet warned the Israelis and the Jews to refer to the Taurat - (0393; 0543) - ?
I'm fine with historical references, but there is no Attila the Hun and his borders as per Quran! You should have
simply stated " an unsubstantiated person". To solve this problem allow historical references that do not contradict
the Quran (like letters and other historical documents, add a grain of salt ( meaning, 'with reservations, skeptically' )
and then leave the findings for the reader to accept or reject.Off course there is no Attila the Hun as there is no Constantine or Heraclius or Khosrau mentioned in the Quran. What I have shown is to proof that the Romans was in a deteriorate position in the 4th Century and even further deteriorate in the 5th Century, as promise of ALLAH in 3001.
The Ghassanid and Lakhmid, both Yemeni tribes migrated to the north in the 4th Century. Why? To become Roman and Persian puppets respectively as mentioned in history? Definitely not! Both tribes migrated to the north of Arabia and not invaded with an army. They were the ones who spread Islam throughout the Middle East. Please read Post 10.
Peace
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You agreed
Yes I agreed with what follows
The Quran is the verification of all past truths. The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods whose content is measured in relation to the Quran. That goes for history of this world.
But I do not agree with
Selecting parts of history that agree with your hypothesis, even though our honorable Quran is an
infallible source, there are other historical data that can be used to verify the past.Also please clarify from you in red
The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods
and
Why did the Prophet warned the people to uphold the Taurat and Injeel and what is sent down to the Prophet
(056 - ?Peace Hizbullah,
I am simply stating that you have not proven your case, and quoting 2/79 does not prove that
" The Quran was sent down in the 4th Century" only speculation, which is fine as long as it is
not masqueraded as absolute truth but a theory of yours which readers can agree or disagree.Your endeavors are appreciated, please continue.
God bless
peace
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Tell me why 0279 and 0378 are written in the imperfect tense if the Quran was sent down in the 7th Century as believe by 90% of the Muslims ?
Why did the Prophet warned the people to uphold the Taurat and Injeel and what is sent down to the Prophet (056 - ?
Why did the Prophet warned the Israelis and the Jews to refer to the Taurat - (0393; 0543) - ?
Peace hawk99
You did not answer my questions
God Bless
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What about the verse I had shown in Post 1, if the Prophet lived in the 7th Century, that means the Quran was sent 300 years after Nicea, why is it in the PRESENT TENSE AND NOT PAST TENSE. Please explain to me, thank you in advance.
Salaam Hizbullah -- read in context, English grammar rules don?t always apply for Qur?an?
278 and from those illiterate not are knowing the book/divine writ except aspirations and surely themselves except/only are thinking/conjecturing
279 so woe to the those who are writing the book/divine writ with hands theirs furthermore are saying this one from near the god of purchased/bargained they of with it price of little of so woe for them from what written have hands theirs and woe to them from what are earning
4171 ? so believe yeh of in the god and messengers his and not thou say yeh of trio cease yeh of best of for you only the god deity one?
Likewise question for you -- when trinity was/is being conjectured/written about?
Justin Martyr 100?165 CE
"in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit"Tertullian 160 ? 225 CE
"Three Persons, one Substance"The First Council of Nicaea 325 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible?
And in the Holy Ghost?The First Council of Constantinople 381 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, ?And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets"No where in the Quran that mentioned about the Persians. The Persian Empire had already been destroyed by the Greco-Romans in the 300 BC. The Greco-Romans were the super power of the ME from Britanica to the Indus River Valley! Greco-Romans edicts were found in Afghanistan.
Khosrau II Sassanid King of Persia (reign 590 - 628 CE, see coin posted earlier) didn't exist?
http//www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Khosrau_II.html
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Salaam Hizbullah -- read in context, English grammar rules don?t always apply for Qur?an?
278 and from those illiterate not are knowing the book/divine writ except aspirations and surely themselves except/only are thinking/conjecturing
279 so woe to the those who are writing the book/divine writ with hands theirs furthermore are saying this one from near the god of purchased/bargained they of with it price of little of so woe for them from what written have hands theirs and woe to them from what are earning
4171 ? so believe yeh of in the god and messengers his and not thou say yeh of trio cease yeh of best of for you only the god deity one?
Likewise question for you -- when trinity was/is being conjectured/written about?
Justin Martyr 100?165 CE
"in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit"Tertullian 160 ? 225 CE
"Three Persons, one Substance"The First Council of Nicaea 325 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible?
And in the Holy Ghost?The First Council of Constantinople 381 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, ?And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets"Peace Noon
Quote from Mazhar on March 28, 2014, 120038 pm
Please study about tense and aspect of a verb. The verb in the Ayah is not about an event happened in the past. It is telling about an ongoing process.
My reply
I have done that. Yes "it is telling about an ongoing process" and also before the present and ongoing process.
A. AQ 0279 - So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH," in order to exchange it for a small price.
The verse above which is part of 0279 is refering to a Book that was written during the revelation of the Holy Quran and also an on going addendum which took them 4 centuries to complete
1.First Council of Nicaea (325)
2.First Council of Constantinople (381)
3.Council of Ephesus (431)
4.Council of Chalcedon (451)
5.Second Council of Constantinople (553)
6.Third Council of Constantinople (680)
7.Second Council of Nicaea (787)B. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
The second part of verse 0279 says that some writings have been written. No mention of a Book. This was during the Apostolic Age and the Ante-Nicene Period. And also those that wrote the Book were bribed. This is in present tense which shows that the church leaders were all bribed since day ONE!
In fact the addendum to the Bible was "LAST MADE" at the Council of Trend in the 16th Century CE!
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Peace Noon
Quote from Mazhar on March 28, 2014, 120038 pm
Please study about tense and aspect of a verb. The verb in the Ayah is not about an event happened in the past. It is telling about an ongoing process.
My reply
I have done that. Yes "it is telling about an ongoing process" and also before the present and ongoing process.
A. AQ 0279 - So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH," in order to exchange it for a small price.
The verse above which is part of 0279 is refering to a Book that was written during the revelation of the Holy Quran and also an on going addendum which took them 4 centuries to complete...
Peace, again read in context applicable to any claimed divine writ i.e. ?the book? not only to Bible books.
278 and from those illiterate not are knowing the book except aspirations and surely themselves except/only are conjecturing?
The above applies to present day conjectures e.g. edicts to stone adulterers saying it?s in the book.
279 so woe to those who yaktubna/are writing the book with hands theirs furthermore are saying this one from near the god?
Likewise above is applicable to present (it?s pointless to intimidate those already deceased); e.g. anti-education of women, idolizing past persons, advocating trinity, etc. which is not in ?the book? or divine writ.
279 continued?
of purchased/bargained they of with it price of little of so woe for them from what katabat/written have hands theirs and woe to them from what are earning
katabat/wrote ? in context refers back to those who yaktubna/are writing the book/divine writ.
Moreover an example is given of their conjecture in very next verse saying hell is only temporary ?280 and say they of never touch us the fire except days of numbered say surely have taken thou you near the god covenant of so not fails the god covenant his or thou saying on the god what not thou knowing
On topic Qur?an descended 325 CE, no evidence ? simply study evolution of Arabic 22 to 28 letter script.