The Quran was sent down in the 4th Century?
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Peace Hizbullah,
Here you allow historical evidence.
Here you disallow historical evidence.
God bless
peace
Peace hawk99
The Quran is the verification of all past truths. The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods whose content is measured in relation to the Quran. That goes for history of this world. If these finds verification in the Quran then it is declared true. However if it is negated by the Quran then it is surely false. It is not for me to allow or disallow
Peace
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Salaam,
Red If you could read Arabic instead of depending on English you could know that both Arabic words are different.
As per your translation above, the Arabic words in the aayaat are
For 'low land' .
For 'lower' .The words are different but they have the same meaning.
Peace
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Peace -
conjecture
1825 and remained they in cave theirs three hundred seasons and add they nine ofYou translation are right, however from the verse it deduce that they did stayed for 300 years as per the Knowledge of ALLAH. Those who came after them was the ones who differ.
Below are conjectures
The Chronicle of James of Edessa
http//www.tertullian.org/fathers/james_of_edessa_chronicle_02_canon.htm
Eclipse Data, for the 613 July 23 solar eclipse.
http//eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=06010310Battle of Antioch (613 CE) Persians defeat Byzantines/Romans
Battle of Issus (622 CE) Byzantines/Romans defeat PersiansPeace
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You translation are right, however from the verse it deduce that they did stayed for 300 years as per the Knowledge of ALLAH. Those who came after them was the ones who differ.
No, that's conjecture same as "they" were conjecturing in the verse...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934
1825 .. and increase they nine of
The answer to assumptive speculation and conjecture is given thus...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
See exact same word usage in below verse ...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
390 ... furthermore increase they disbelief/rejection of
Below are conjectures
You believe Heraclius/Byzantium and Khosrau/Persia, eclipse and battle in 613 was all conjecture, chronology a lie?
http//eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=06010310
http//www.drdoak.com/World_Misc/613_heraclius.jpg
http//www.cngcoins.com/photos/big/81000748.jpg
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No, that's conjecture same as "they" were conjecturing in the verse...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934
1825 .. and increase they nine of
The answer to assumptive speculation and conjecture is given thus...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
See exact same word usage in below verse ...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
Salam,
I know what you meant, let me explain my point
AQ 1825 - And they tarried in the Cave three hundred years, and they added nine more.
The red sentence - ALLAH confirms that they live in the cave for 300 years and green sentence - that they added another 9 years to how long the sleepers had live in the cave.
Say 'God knows very well how long they tarried. To Him belongs the Unseen in the heavens and in the earth. How well He sees! How well He hears! They have no protector, apart from Him, and He associates in His government no one.'
The prophet was asked to say that ALLAH knows well how long they had lived. That ALLAH was there as a witness.
390 ... furthermore increase they disbelief/rejection of
You believe Heraclius/Byzantium and Khosrau/Persia, eclipse and battle in 613 was all conjecture, chronology a lie?
http//eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearchmap.php?Ecl=06010310
http//www.drdoak.com/World_Misc/613_heraclius.jpg
http//www.cngcoins.com/photos/big/81000748.jpg
What about the verse I had shown in Post 1, if the Prophet lived in the 7th Century, that means the Quran was sent 300 years after Nicea, why is it in the PRESENT TENSE AND NOT PAST TENSE. Please explain to me, thank you in advance.
No where in the Quran that mentioned about the Persians. The Persian Empire had already been destroyed by the Greco-Romans in the 300 BC. The Greco-Romans were the super power of the ME from Britanica to the Indus River Valley! Greco-Romans edicts were found in Afghanistan.
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/AsokaKandahar.jpg/170px-AsokaKandahar.jpg
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Tetradrachm_Eukratides.jpg/170px-Tetradrachm_Eukratides.jpg
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Heraios.jpg/170px-Heraios.jpg
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Peace hawk99
The Quran is the verification of all past truths. The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods whose content is measured in relation to the Quran. That goes for history of this world.
Agreed
If these finds verification in the Quran then it is declared true. However if it is negated by the Quran then it is surely false. It is not for me to allow or disallow
I'm fine with historical references, but there is no Attila the Hun and his borders as per Quran! You should have
simply stated " an unsubstantiated person". To solve this problem allow historical references that do not contradict
the Quran (like letters and other historical documents, add a grain of salt ( meaning, 'with reservations, skeptically' )
and then leave the findings for the reader to accept or reject.Still you are finding your verification of the Qurans origin by highlighting the Counsel of Nicaea, if that were the case,
one might argue that the Quran could have been written earlier than the date you quote by using previous biblical
apocryphal Gospels texts and translations Therefore in the end you end up attributing the Qurans origin to dates
not supported by Quran but only via speculation. 2/79 in my opinion does not support your thesis.God bless
peace
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Agreed
You agreed
Still you are finding your verification of the Qurans origin by highlighting the Counsel of Nicaea, if that were the case,
one might argue that the Quran could have been written earlier than the date you quote by using previous biblical
apocryphal Gospels texts and translations Therefore in the end you end up attributing the Qurans origin to dates
not supported by Quran but only via speculation. 2/79 in my opinion does not support your thesis.and now you do not? Tell me why 0279 and 0378 are written in the imperfect tense if the Quran was sent down in the 7th Century as believe by 90% of the Muslims ?
Why did the Prophet warned the people to uphold the Taurat and Injeel and what is sent down to the Prophet (056 - ?
Why did the Prophet warned the Israelis and the Jews to refer to the Taurat - (0393; 0543) - ?
I'm fine with historical references, but there is no Attila the Hun and his borders as per Quran! You should have
simply stated " an unsubstantiated person". To solve this problem allow historical references that do not contradict
the Quran (like letters and other historical documents, add a grain of salt ( meaning, 'with reservations, skeptically' )
and then leave the findings for the reader to accept or reject.Off course there is no Attila the Hun as there is no Constantine or Heraclius or Khosrau mentioned in the Quran. What I have shown is to proof that the Romans was in a deteriorate position in the 4th Century and even further deteriorate in the 5th Century, as promise of ALLAH in 3001.
The Ghassanid and Lakhmid, both Yemeni tribes migrated to the north in the 4th Century. Why? To become Roman and Persian puppets respectively as mentioned in history? Definitely not! Both tribes migrated to the north of Arabia and not invaded with an army. They were the ones who spread Islam throughout the Middle East. Please read Post 10.
Peace
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You agreed
Yes I agreed with what follows
The Quran is the verification of all past truths. The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods whose content is measured in relation to the Quran. That goes for history of this world.
But I do not agree with
Selecting parts of history that agree with your hypothesis, even though our honorable Quran is an
infallible source, there are other historical data that can be used to verify the past.Also please clarify from you in red
The so called Old and New Testament are a mixture of truths and falsehoods
and
Why did the Prophet warned the people to uphold the Taurat and Injeel and what is sent down to the Prophet
(056 - ?Peace Hizbullah,
I am simply stating that you have not proven your case, and quoting 2/79 does not prove that
" The Quran was sent down in the 4th Century" only speculation, which is fine as long as it is
not masqueraded as absolute truth but a theory of yours which readers can agree or disagree.Your endeavors are appreciated, please continue.
God bless
peace
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Tell me why 0279 and 0378 are written in the imperfect tense if the Quran was sent down in the 7th Century as believe by 90% of the Muslims ?
Why did the Prophet warned the people to uphold the Taurat and Injeel and what is sent down to the Prophet (056 - ?
Why did the Prophet warned the Israelis and the Jews to refer to the Taurat - (0393; 0543) - ?
Peace hawk99
You did not answer my questions
God Bless
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What about the verse I had shown in Post 1, if the Prophet lived in the 7th Century, that means the Quran was sent 300 years after Nicea, why is it in the PRESENT TENSE AND NOT PAST TENSE. Please explain to me, thank you in advance.
Salaam Hizbullah -- read in context, English grammar rules don?t always apply for Qur?an?
278 and from those illiterate not are knowing the book/divine writ except aspirations and surely themselves except/only are thinking/conjecturing
279 so woe to the those who are writing the book/divine writ with hands theirs furthermore are saying this one from near the god of purchased/bargained they of with it price of little of so woe for them from what written have hands theirs and woe to them from what are earning
4171 ? so believe yeh of in the god and messengers his and not thou say yeh of trio cease yeh of best of for you only the god deity one?
Likewise question for you -- when trinity was/is being conjectured/written about?
Justin Martyr 100?165 CE
"in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit"Tertullian 160 ? 225 CE
"Three Persons, one Substance"The First Council of Nicaea 325 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible?
And in the Holy Ghost?The First Council of Constantinople 381 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, ?And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets"No where in the Quran that mentioned about the Persians. The Persian Empire had already been destroyed by the Greco-Romans in the 300 BC. The Greco-Romans were the super power of the ME from Britanica to the Indus River Valley! Greco-Romans edicts were found in Afghanistan.
Khosrau II Sassanid King of Persia (reign 590 - 628 CE, see coin posted earlier) didn't exist?
http//www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Khosrau_II.html
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Salaam Hizbullah -- read in context, English grammar rules don?t always apply for Qur?an?
278 and from those illiterate not are knowing the book/divine writ except aspirations and surely themselves except/only are thinking/conjecturing
279 so woe to the those who are writing the book/divine writ with hands theirs furthermore are saying this one from near the god of purchased/bargained they of with it price of little of so woe for them from what written have hands theirs and woe to them from what are earning
4171 ? so believe yeh of in the god and messengers his and not thou say yeh of trio cease yeh of best of for you only the god deity one?
Likewise question for you -- when trinity was/is being conjectured/written about?
Justin Martyr 100?165 CE
"in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit"Tertullian 160 ? 225 CE
"Three Persons, one Substance"The First Council of Nicaea 325 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible?
And in the Holy Ghost?The First Council of Constantinople 381 CE
?We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, ?And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets"Peace Noon
Quote from Mazhar on March 28, 2014, 120038 pm
Please study about tense and aspect of a verb. The verb in the Ayah is not about an event happened in the past. It is telling about an ongoing process.
My reply
I have done that. Yes "it is telling about an ongoing process" and also before the present and ongoing process.
A. AQ 0279 - So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH," in order to exchange it for a small price.
The verse above which is part of 0279 is refering to a Book that was written during the revelation of the Holy Quran and also an on going addendum which took them 4 centuries to complete
1.First Council of Nicaea (325)
2.First Council of Constantinople (381)
3.Council of Ephesus (431)
4.Council of Chalcedon (451)
5.Second Council of Constantinople (553)
6.Third Council of Constantinople (680)
7.Second Council of Nicaea (787)B. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
The second part of verse 0279 says that some writings have been written. No mention of a Book. This was during the Apostolic Age and the Ante-Nicene Period. And also those that wrote the Book were bribed. This is in present tense which shows that the church leaders were all bribed since day ONE!
In fact the addendum to the Bible was "LAST MADE" at the Council of Trend in the 16th Century CE!
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Peace Noon
Quote from Mazhar on March 28, 2014, 120038 pm
Please study about tense and aspect of a verb. The verb in the Ayah is not about an event happened in the past. It is telling about an ongoing process.
My reply
I have done that. Yes "it is telling about an ongoing process" and also before the present and ongoing process.
A. AQ 0279 - So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH," in order to exchange it for a small price.
The verse above which is part of 0279 is refering to a Book that was written during the revelation of the Holy Quran and also an on going addendum which took them 4 centuries to complete...
Peace, again read in context applicable to any claimed divine writ i.e. ?the book? not only to Bible books.
278 and from those illiterate not are knowing the book except aspirations and surely themselves except/only are conjecturing?
The above applies to present day conjectures e.g. edicts to stone adulterers saying it?s in the book.
279 so woe to those who yaktubna/are writing the book with hands theirs furthermore are saying this one from near the god?
Likewise above is applicable to present (it?s pointless to intimidate those already deceased); e.g. anti-education of women, idolizing past persons, advocating trinity, etc. which is not in ?the book? or divine writ.
279 continued?
of purchased/bargained they of with it price of little of so woe for them from what katabat/written have hands theirs and woe to them from what are earning
katabat/wrote ? in context refers back to those who yaktubna/are writing the book/divine writ.
Moreover an example is given of their conjecture in very next verse saying hell is only temporary ?280 and say they of never touch us the fire except days of numbered say surely have taken thou you near the god covenant of so not fails the god covenant his or thou saying on the god what not thou knowing
On topic Qur?an descended 325 CE, no evidence ? simply study evolution of Arabic 22 to 28 letter script.
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Peace
Peace, again read in context applicable to any claimed divine writ i.e. ?the book? not only to Bible books.
Did you read the verse in context?
The above applies to present day conjectures e.g. edicts to stone adulterers saying it?s in the book.
279 so woe to those who yaktubna/are writing the book with hands theirs furthermore are saying this one from near the god?
Likewise above is applicable to present (it?s pointless to intimidate those already deceased); e.g. anti-education of women, idolizing past persons, advocating trinity, etc. which is not in ?the book? or divine writ.
Exactly, at present, at the same time when this Quran was revealed!
On topic Qur?an descended 325 CE, no evidence ? simply study evolution of Arabic 22 to 28 letter script.
Wait, not so fast, there are plenty of evidence
0378 - There is among them a section who distorts the Book with their tongues You would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "It is from Allah," but it is not from Allah It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and they know it.
The above verse is in conjunction with 0279. It is referring to those who have no knowledge of the Book and they ?distort? the Book with their tongue. Read the verse in context and you can see that they are in the imperfect tense similar to 0279.
ALLAH rejected the Book, but why? In 0568, the prophet was told to warn the people of the Book to uphold the Taurat and Injeel. What does it means? Did ALLAH contradict HIMSELF? To a layman, this is a contradiction! But if you read in context with the other verses, you will find that it is not but on a contrary it is telling us the history of distortion. When it happened, how it happened, who created the distortion? With Quranic evidences and Historical evidences, we should be able to see a clear picture of the events that took place 1700 years ago!
Again, why did ALLAH THE EXALTED, commands the Bani Israel and Jews in verses in 0350 and 0543 respectively, to follow the Taurat, if the Book had already been distorted! Are these verses, another contradiction with respect to 0378???
Furthermore, read the verses before 0378-
0377 - Indeed, those who exchange the covenant of Allah and their oaths for a small price will have no share in the Hereafter, and Allah will not speak to them or look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them; and they will have a painful punishment.
The above verse is referring to those who created a new Book, took bribes and claimed that it is from ALLAH. Now, read the verse after 0378;
It is not for a human that Allah should give him the Book and Authority and Prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be worshippers to me rather than Allah," but , ""Be you Rabbaniyun (learned men of religion who practise what they know and also preach others), because you are teaching the Book, and you are studying it."
Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords. Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims?
This verse confirms a DECLARATION that it is not for a human whom Allah has given the Book, knowledge in the Law and prophet hood and proclaim to the people, "Worship me instead of Allah,''. If this is not the right of all Prophets or Messengers, than it is not the right of anyone else to issue such a claim. This criticism refers to the ignorant rabbis, priests and teachers of misguidance who assisted Constantine in his plan.
As for the Messengers, they only command what Allah commands them and they forbid what Allah forbade them. The Messengers are the emissaries between Allah and His creation, conveying Allah's Message and Trust. The messengers indeed fulfilled their mission, gave sincere advice to creation and conveyed the truth to them.
0515 - O People of the Book, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you conceal of the Book and obliterate much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.
Read the verses above in context and again you will find that it is in the imperfect tense! The Messenger came at the time when they were hiding and obliterating the Book!
0691 - And they did not appraise Allah with true appraisal when they said, ?ALLAH did not reveal to a human being anything." Say, "Who revealed the Book that Moses brought as light and guidance to the people? You make it into parchments, scatter it, and conceal much. And you were taught that which you knew not - neither you nor your fathers." Say, ?ALLAH." Then leave them in their discourse, amusing themselves.
The above verse tells us that the unbelievers denied that ALLAH had already sent down a Book during the time of Musa, in which they ?make it into parchments scatter it and conceal much? the information! Again, read the verse in context and you will find that they ?make it into scatter parchments and conceal much? - in imperfect tense! These proofs that the Quran was sent down during the distortion, obliteration and hiding of much original information of the Book that was given to Musa.
The Jews intentionally and falsely alter the meanings of the Words of Allah and in a different manner than what Allah meant. It only demonstrates the Jews' disbelief, stubbornness and disregard for ALLAH's Book after they understood it. They made into parchments and scattered the Book of Musa into what we have now, 5 Books of Musa ? Genesis, Exodus, Number, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
The Quran was first written in 22 letter alphabets and sometime later converted into 28 letters alphabet confused If that is what you mean, can you elaborate please, thank you.
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Peace,
There is a comprehension problem with the verse you provided. Because you choose to translate "ketaab" as book it is inaccurate. The verse speaks of inventing decrees never authorized by God and say it is from God, sometimes for personal gains, but usually use because they are misguided and conjecture and think God has ordered something while He has not and that it may please Him while it will not. They rather serve a rebellious devil and make their deeds seem pleasing to them.
"Qur'an" is a recitation recorded in book form and "Qur'an" is the the closest resemblance of the word "book" you have in it. When you recite "Qur'an" you do something similar to reading, which the word may imply, ie "read" aloud from memory
The corruption is so severe that the word "ketaab" has become assimilated into languages so deeply rooted as book that no one notices. I have looked into the problem for some time now and one should analyze all occurrences of "ketaab" in the contexts and also notice that words with more than two syllables have the same fundamental meaning as the root word and K - T - B does not connote to book and not even remotely. Its closest related word except decree is command or order.
An example is the famous "letter" from Solomon to the queen of Sheba which is in fact no letter but a sent decree which she reads aloud. It orders her people to stop their bad doings and return to a balanced community which is compatible with God's standard which is Islam (balance/harmony). Solomon is not about to stage a conquest but sends a decree for the people of Sheba to stop their ill-doings. This context is often misunderstood to think Solomon is threatening the queen that she must convert to "Islam" or face the consequences which is not true but rather "calm down" and return to order free of injustice and gross doings. Satan is causing their deeds to seem right in their eyes so their judgements is clouded. The end of the narrative which is often interpreted as that she makes her legs bare and she goes into a pool is a sequence where she does something that gets her thinking and she realizes her mistakes.
And the scribe in chapter 4 is a jurist and the record is a decree to pay back on the loan. The word is never used in the context as "write".
And every time the word is used as record it does not mean record but decree or better similar English word depending on suitability of the context. Perhaps "fate" can be similar in meaning, the consequence of actions. The fate God decrees depending on the actions throughout their interim. As previously known Arabic words cannot always be literally translated into English, but of course you can paraphrase. Prefixes determine the meaning of the base word, so how it should impact on the context.
It could be that X (Muhammad) did not bundle the chapters together because his duty was to recite what had been revealed to him and the copies famously and allegedely burned by Uthman be his notes when he performed to his crowd and was copied far after his demise. Just a theory because I do not know. But I know ketab does not mean book in the narration.
And there is absolutely no guarantee that nothing is changed in the composition and many people argue that plentifully, but God says there is no change in his decree and He does not ultimately tell "Qur'an" is safeguarded from the filthy hands of (some) men. And the Satans did not have to change the contents to pervert the word of God because it is easily corrupted by men that say they have "knowledge". Just look at ketab, or the wife beating of 434; it only takes a twisting of the meaning of a word, ie people change the decree with their hands or tongues.
And regarding when the recitation it does not matter when but what it contains. According to the passages it had been a time without missionaries (the last one is theoretically Y (Jesus/Isa) around year 0 according to the Gregorian calendar, although I believe him to have been about 200 years earlier than usually understood and in a location much further eastwards around the Persian Gulf (Khaliyee Fars). There I believe him to have preached the mission of God.
The Jews are attacked quite harshly in "Qur'an" while the worst corruption of Christianity had begun, ie the trinity was invented (believed to be at the Necea convention in the 300s). Had "Qur'an" 2.0 been revealed the "Muslims" would be attacked and compared much like the Jews and that Muhammad had become at ranks with God and the decree had received words never inspired by the Lord. The history only repeats itself and people follow in the footsteps of their fathers. "We found our fathers doing this so we do the same". "What if your fathers were not guided and followed what Satan misled them to believe and what their leaders told them to do". "They were misled by fancy words which carried no weight". (note that quotations are not literal representations of "Qur'an" 1.0 but based on the same thread)
God's "Islam" is a way of living and not a system of excessive rules and regulations. For the intelligent and blessed they will know God's decree with or without "Qur'an". This recitation was aimed for a people not previously guided and its target is not us.
God bless you
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Salam Hizbollah,
I have to inform you that the distortions (or better saying writings) of the books had begun long before Muhammad's time.
Most probably, by the time of Ezra, there existed an Old Testament!
Bernard Leeman, in his book "The Queen of Sheba and Biblical Scholarship" states, "Ezra is credited with re-establishing the Jewish community as a distinct group forbidden to marry outsiders and as one adhering to strictures of the Torah. The terms Judaism and Jew date from him reforms. Ezra was not only a Zadokite priest but also a scribe. He held high office under the Persians, probably as a sort of minister for Jewish affairs. He arrived under Persian orders in approximately 398 BC. To bolster Jewish settlement, to provide subsidies, and to impose the Jewish legal code on the province of Judah. Armed with Persian imperial authority, Ezra created an uncompromising Zadokite state modeled on Ezekiels vision. Salvation lay only through complete adherence to the Torah, administered by the Zadokite priesthood who controlled Aliyeh- the Place of Spiritual Ascension- which later became known as the New Jerusalem. Ezra established a school of priestly scholarship that edited ancient sacred texts and produced new ones, including ones of his life and work, which were then canonized as Holy Writ. The Book of Ezra was the last book written for the Old Testament, and adherents of the reformed religious tradition now called Judaism regarded it as the last word on the subject."
You right when you claim that Torah and Injeel existed at the time of Muhammad (S), but you should note that the Bible (Old Testament and New Testament) are different from Torah and Injeel.
I think at the time of Muhammad (S) Old Testament and New Testament existed in, and originated from, Jerusalem; but that Muhammad's contemporaries somehow had access to the original Torah and Injeel too.
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Salam vov
I have to inform you that the distortions (or better saying writings) of the books had begun long before Muhammad's time.
Most probably, by the time of Ezra, there existed an Old Testament!
Bernard Leeman, in his book "The Queen of Sheba and Biblical Scholarship" states, "Ezra is credited with re-establishing the Jewish community as a distinct group forbidden to marry outsiders and as one adhering to strictures of the Torah. The terms Judaism and Jew date from him reforms. Ezra was not only a Zadokite priest but also a scribe. He held high office under the Persians, probably as a sort of minister for Jewish affairs. He arrived under Persian orders in approximately 398 BC. To bolster Jewish settlement, to provide subsidies, and to impose the Jewish legal code on the province of Judah. Armed with Persian imperial authority, Ezra created an uncompromising Zadokite state modeled on Ezekiel?s vision. Salvation lay only through complete adherence to the Torah, administered by the Zadokite priesthood who controlled Aliyeh- the Place of Spiritual Ascension- which later became known as the New Jerusalem. Ezra established a school of priestly scholarship that edited ancient sacred texts and produced new ones, including ones of his life and work, which were then canonized as Holy Writ. The Book of Ezra was the last book written for the Old Testament, and adherents of the reformed religious tradition now called Judaism regarded it as the last word on the subject."
0544 - I, We sent down the Torah, in it was guidance and light. Judge by it the prophets those who submit, that is, those who are Jews and the rabbis and learned men of religion with what they WILL PROTECT ALLAH?s Book, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear ME and do not sell MY verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what ALLAH has revealed ? then it is those who are the disbelievers.
The Prophets were the judge, supervising their powers on the Rabbaniyyun, refers to the worshippers who are learned and religious, and Ahbar refers to the scholars, meaning, they were entrusted to protect the Book of Allah, and they were commanded to adhere to it and not hide any part of it OR to sell HIS verses for a small price.
Prophets were warners. If Prophet Muhammad?s ministry was in the 7th Century CE, 300 years after Nicea, what is the point of warning when the Book had already been distorted!
AQ 0515 O People of the Book, there had come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you conceal of the Book and obliterate much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.
The above verse proofs that the last Prophet came at the time when the hidings and obliteration of the Book were being carried out and at the time when the Quran was first sent down.
0519 - O People of the Book, there had come to you Our Messenger to make evidence to you after a period of suspension of messengers, that you say, "There came not to us any bringer of good tidings or a warner." Now had come to you a bringer of good tidings and a warner. And ALLAH is over all things competent.
Another proof showing that the last Prophet came when there was an absence of messenger to carry out the command and control to those who were given the authority to protect the Book. The Last Prophet of ALLAH was sent to protect the Book of ALLAH! He was commanded to instruct them...
0568 - Say, "O People of the Book, you are on nothing until you uphold the Taurat and the Injeel and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.
Peace
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Salam All,
3002 - The Romans have been won.
3003 - In the land close by. But they, after their victory, will be defeated.
3004 - Within several years. To ALLAH belongs the command before and after. And that day the believers will rejoice.
3005 ? With the succor of ALLAH. He provides succor to whom He wills, and He is the Exalted in Might, the Merciful.Taking The Quran - Surah Arrum, a Quranic evidence, whereby it says that there was a military engagement between the Muslims and the Romans in which the Romans won. But it did not explicitly say where or when this military conflict occurred.
Traditional account says that the battle where Rome defeated the Muslims could be the ?archeologically? supported battle of Mu?tah of 632 CE. In this so called first major battle between the Muslims and Rome, the results of the battle of Mut?ah (according to history) were disastrous for the Muslim army.Nevertheless, the Quran mentioned of an event that happened, that means, that particular event is the first ever happened and it is Quranic evidence! The so called ?Pre-Islamic Arabic Poetry? spoke of several virulent raids by Arab tribes. It is known that poems are the most important record keeping evidence of the Arab tribes who traditionally relied on memory, not writings, to document their events. The Namarah Inscription is extensively cited by historians as an important reference to the historical events of the early decades of the prominent so called ?pre-Islamic Arab?.
But the Namarah inscription was exceptionally unique. It was actually about a previously unknown military action by a person who, while working with or under the Roman Byzantine Army, managed to defeat the Muslim Army in the early 4th century CE. The inscription has three parts ?
- An opening introductory sentence swearing by the soul of King Umru Al Qays bin Amru.
- A paragraph detailing the specifics of the King?s accomplishment in a single battle in Southern Arabia.
- A closing sentence announcing his death.
Al-Namarah Inscription
In thee soul of Umr al-Qays bin Amr, king of all
Arabs, holder of the crown lion, and king of al-Asadiyyin
and Nazr and their kings. Akd has defeated
Mizhij engaging it in a heated battle in the narrow roads of
Najrn, city of Shimr, king of Ma?ad, and befittingly
differentiated between its people and placed them under the
protection of the Roman Cavalry ? no other king has
accomplished what he had accomplished. Akd died on
December 7, 328 CE. O? the happiness of those who gave birth to
him.Considering the historical and geographical facts of Najran and Yemen, which are known for their narrow roads and mountainous valleys, the crushing battle was in and around Najran, South Arabia! Further evidence in the inscription 1.Mizhij, and 2.Shimr, linked to one geographical location ? South Arabia and to a single timeframe circa 328 CE, 3 years after the Creed of Nicaea.
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Mizhij ? The Yemenites were generally refered to by the rest of Arabs as Al-Himiriyyin and depending on whom and when, Yemen was additionally known as Mizhij or Ma?ad.
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Shimr ? Khawarizmi, a prominent Muslim scholar, listed King Shimr as the 20th King of Yemen ?before? Islam and listed King Umru Al-Qays as the 21st King of Al-Hira ?before? Islam. This means the two kings had ruled approximately during the same period.
Further historical evidence, the Baraqish Inscription, found in a cemetery near Baraqish, not far from ancient Ma?rib, South Arabia! It is a great relevance in the study of the campaign of King Umru Al Qays against Najran in South Arabia. The inscription refers to a cavalryman, Publis Cornelius, a Roman Cavalryman. What was the Roman cavalryman doing the far south of Arabia? The publisher of the inscription, Paolo M Costa, has argued that ?it can be tentatively dated to the end of 3rd Century and early 4th Century of CE? and not the expedition of Aelius Gallus against South Arabia in 27 BCE as G W Bowersock concluded in that context. These coincide with the Quran, Surah Arrum.
Further, let me quote Bro Pazuzu from one of his thread...
"It was reported by Abdulrazzaq, through al-Munzhir Ibn No3man, who heard Wahab Ibn Manbeh (a legendary Yemeni historian, many of whose reports have been confirmed by later, non-Arabian sources) talk about what he found in some books, regarding Eesa, the Son of Maryam, who reportedly said ?O you, Hawariyyoun (Pupils) in truth, I declare to you that there will emerge, from the city known by the name of Uzal (Azal), a man from the progeny of Ya3qoub, after ALLAH destroys the kings of the land and he shall have in his company 77e saints, all blessed with the blessings that ALLAH bestowed upon Ishaaq and Ya3qoub, and they shall praise God, continually, without respite, with resonating voices."
This man from the Progeny of Ya3qoub was actually the Last prophet Muhammad. There is lore among the old people of Yemen, who said that the Prophet came to Yemen from Iraq and built the Grand Mosque of San?a, on the actual site of the Temple of Solomon! This Grand Mosque of San?a, is the actual Masjidil Haram! But the only thing is that they post dated the event to the 7th Century CE.
So, when ALLAH says in HIS Quran ? 3003 ?
The Prophet was in San?a, close to where the action is, Najran, in the 4th Century CE . Distance between Sana'a and Najran is 238 km. According Bro Layth, in his Free-Mind Artice ?Where was Muhammad?, traditionally, the action was in Petra. The distance between Medina and Petra is about 500 km! It is not close enough.
Depends on context, the word is utilised extensively today in the meaning of ?near, close by, see below or the following below?. Sometimes, it point to a nearby object or text that is located generally below the horizontal visual level or as a verb ?dana? as in Q5309, means, become physically close or near to someone or some object.
The word , imperfect tense, pointing to a future event, that is, those who were defeated will be victorious.
The Arabs and Persians were close ally in the 4th Century CE. They were among the believers mentioned in the Quran. They had a common enemy, that is, the Romans. True enough, the Romans and the Persians with their Arab ally, fought all over Arabia until the year 363 CE, where the Peace of Jovian was initialled, acknowledging Persian or rather Muslim supremacy over Iraq, Armenia, parts of Turkey and parts of Syria and all over of Arabia in the 4th Century . This is when the Muslim considered the wrong had been righted! But 300 years later, in the 7th Century CE, that the Arabs and Persians fought each other in the Battle of Qadisiyyah which effectively put an end to Arab / Persian alliance and beginning of the sectarian community.
ALLAH KNOWS BEST
PEACE
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Peace, Hizbullah.
Very good observations. Until recently, I was debating internally if Muhammad lived close to the time of Umru al-Qays, or if he was contemporary with Aelius Gallus, when the Romans were defeated near Ma'rib (after they were victorious around Najran). Anyway, there is no doubt anymore in my mind that the Quran could not have come from the 7th Century. It's all hogwash
Also, the war that Umru' Qays (the same "Amorkesos" of the Roman records) fought against the kings of Najran was because he wanted to expand towards the Red Sea coast. This obsession of reaching the coast and controlling the caravan routes was a trend followed by many of his predecessors, centuries down the line, and would be followed again by the kings of al-Heera (a state in Iraq) two centuries after Umru'. It will all be made clear in Book 4, where I will present a new dimension of the fraud that was perpetrated. These imbeciles who wrote our history want us to believe that the Assyrians and Babylonians launched no less than seven (possibly eight) campaigns, 2 of which were destructive beyond imagination, on the tiny and economically insignificant stretch of land in Palestine, which even today, the Zionist state controlling it could not exist without yearly aid in the billions coming from the west.
No less than 6 classical historians (among them Tabari, the "super Imam of Islamic history" are unanimous about the fact that Nebuchadnessar laid waste to the Hijaz, Nejd and Yemen in the bygone eras. And yet the modern historians have chosen to ignore these classical reports as delusions, while continuing to believe the Orientalist garbage associating the Babylonian Exile with Palestine.
There is lore among the old people of Yemen, who said that the Prophet came to Yemen from Iraq and built the Grand Mosque of San?a, on the actual site of the Temple of Solomon!
Are you certain it's not Abraham who is being referred to there?
Thanks a bunch.
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