Ramadhan and Calendar: the KEY lies in Torah and Quran!!
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Salaam all the freeminders, Muslims and people of faith,
This is my first post on this forum and I would like to introduce myself first. I am a revert/convert to Islam since 1.5 year and freeminds website attracted my attention few months ago while searching for unanswered questions that troubled my mind. I have read a lot about Islam, but this was the first website that gave me straight and logical answers to controversial questions and gave me enough reasons to reject sunni Islam.
Together with my good friend, also convert to Islam we started debunking myth by myth, starting from prayer and direction to Kaba, where was Prophet Muhammad, what is the Sacred Temple etc. At the end we came to the last issue how and when to fast ramadhan, when is the night of Qadr??... and realised that all the previous investigations were a piece of cake compared to this one...
I think that the Night of Qadr holds the key to understanding the System of God. But before we do it, let's just for a moment clear out our brains from the previous knowledge and make certain assumptions that we agree on and facts
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The night of Qadr is when the Message of God was sent to the mankind
Chapter 97 (Qadr)
970 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
971 We have sent it down in the Night of Decree.
972 And do you know what is the Night of Decree?
973 The Night of Decree is better than one thousand months.
974 The angels and the Spirit come down in it with the permission of
their Lord to carry out every matter.
975 It is peaceful until the coming of dawn -
Revelations came to the prophets after some time of fasting.
(logically speaking, I assume that Torah and Quran, as message and Law of God had been sent on the same night.
Now, let's ask the questions
a. What is this Night of Qadr
b. How does it relate to ramadhan
c. when the Ramadhan is practiced
d. how many days should we fast?After months of reading and frustration, again reading and frustration, reading all your posts I started feeling that there is something missing. I started feeling that help might come from...Torah. After all, Quran says
?O you who believe! Observing As-Sawm (the fasting) is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)?
ten; so the term of his Lord was completed as forty nights. And Moses said to his brother Aaron, "Take my place among my people, do right , and do not follow the way of the corrupters." Quran 7142
Evidently, Book of Exodus is correct, Moses was on the mountain 40 days, but why Quran says 30 plus 10 equals 40??? Why didn't God just say 40?? Perhaps, HE wanted to draw our attention to something VERY IMPORTANT?
Quran Chapter 89, Surah al Fajr
890 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
891 By the dawn.
892 And ten nights. (Why is GOD swearing by 10 nights?? Surely it has to have some great significance for believers?)
893 And the even and the odd.2183 O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.
2184 A few number of days (according to my knowledge of Arabic this means between 3 to 10 days). Whoever of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. As for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.
2185 The month of Ramadhan (Ramadhan=heat, as was already agreed by the majority of freeminders), in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the Criterion (Torah was given as a Criterion too). Whoever of you witnesses the month (or full moon according to the common understanding here on this forum), then let him fast it (a specified number of days which is 10, because until full moon there is 30 days from the previous month, when Children of Israel Reached the month of Sinai). And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.To sum up, I believe that we should be fasting 10 days from the night following the full moon of the 5th moth after Passover= a night following the full moon after observing summer equinox.
Why 10 days not 40? 40 day fast was commanded to the Prophets (Jesus, Moses), they had greater responsibility and message to convey to people, I don't think that God, in his mercy wanted all the humanity to fast 40 days, rather he draw our attention to the last 10 days, from the full moon of 5th month onwards.
Such interpretation perfectly matches interpretations of other freeminders based on semantic analysis of Quran and Arabic, but also gives it wider, beautiful dimention it connects together the revelation of Torah and Quran, it connects together what was ordained in the past to that which was ordained later, in the Quran. After all, God never told Jesus that he should abandon traditions deriving from Torah, why then Muslims, who consider themselves as better 'Christians' should reject the commands of Torah to remember day of Passover until the end of the world? Ok this is a topic for the next post, but I feel that often Muslims through their arrogance completely reject Torah as any sort of guidance, whereas even in Quran God confirms validity of it, only clarifying what has been fabricated by people over centuries. If we only were able to take use of the God's guidance coming from all the perspectives, perhaps it would be easier to understand the God' system???
By the way, this research automatically gives answer regarding the sacred months.. But is should be another thread. The 4 sacred months and feasts are during the months given to PoIsrael month of Nisan Passover, month of Shavout, Tammuz (quranic Ramadhan), and Month in which Day of Atonement is held (strangely celebrated by sunni/shia as Muharram)...
I am really curious what you think about this perspective? I am very open to your comments, welcome are all those who know Arabic and Quran better than I do, as my Arabic is really really basic. If you have anything that you think would give broader picture to this argument feel welcome as well as if you have differing views.
Peace
M. -
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Month ONE - new moon is the first day
Peace, determine 1st month if someone awoke from long sleep or without prior arbitrary start?
1811 so "beat" we over ears theirs in the cave seasons number of
1812 furthermore raised we them to make evident which the two parties counted to what remain they duration of -
Interesting. There are lunar calendar following Tanakh-alone followers, where the sabbath is determined by the new moon, which starts the month.
I like neutral files, they have a good articles in arabic about how years should be calculated in lunar years (i.e Noah was not 950 solar years, but 950 lunar cycles = about 78 years)
http//neutralfiles.com/index.php/%D9%85%D9%81%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%A2%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9/141-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%82-%D8%A8%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%86%D8%A9-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%A2%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85
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Salaam,
Peace, determine 1st month if someone awoke from long sleep or without prior arbitrary start?
1811 so "beat" we over ears theirs in the cave seasons number of
1812 furthermore raised we them to make evident which the two parties counted to what remain they duration ofAs mentioned in my previous post, Exodus holds the answer to it first month was ordained by God to Moses and his people just before the time of escape from Egypt and it starts from the new moon
Month ONE - new moon is the first day, this month is a start of the count of years to come, day 15 - Passover, Day 16 - Exodus
Moses and PoIsrael are commanded first to start counting the years
'This month shall be unto you the beginning of months it shall be
the first month of the year to you'.(Exodus 12,2)First month is the ancient month in Jewish calendar called Nisan during which the Passover happened.
The calendar given to the People of Moses was lunisolar it starts with the full moon, however count first day is when the crescent is visible, then on every 15th day sfter the new moon, you are sure that it will fall on the day of Sabbath-the seventh day. As you notice, even today, all the feasts and important events in the Jewish tradition falls on the day of Sabbath, although they also corrupted their ancient, lunisolar calendar in the later years and now they follow solar gregorian calendar (plus they celebrate new year during Rosh Hashna in September I guess, which is wronng as God told them clearly that the month of Passover, nissan is the first month!!), which claims that Sabbath is Saturday, which is NOT!!
To understand better the logic, please watch these videos I have provided in the first post as they explain nicely the system of ancient calendar of People of Moses.
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To sum up, I believe that we should be fasting 10 days from the night following the full moon of the 5th moth after Passover= a night following the full moon after observing summer equinox.
Salaam
i agree with this dating
i wrote about calendar here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605934.0first full moon after summer equinox (that is around 20 september) is interesting because same day duration and night duration in all places in this planet.
10 days duration and what is fasting is another subject.
Peace
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Salaam, peace )
Salaam
i agree with this dating
i wrote about calendar here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605934.0first full moon after summer equinox (that is around 20 september) is interesting because same day duration and night duration in all places in this planet.
10 days duration and what is fasting is another subject.
Peace
Salaam noshirk,
I'm sorry for my typo, I was meaning summer solistice.I have briefly read your thread and it sounds very interesting and well connnected and very well researched.
I will try to answer it in few days in more details, Allah willing, as I have to leave for some time.
Peace
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Salaam,
As mentioned in my previous post, Exodus holds the answer to it first month was ordained by God to Moses and his people just before the time of escape from Egypt and it starts from the new moon
Month ONE - new moon is the first day, this month is a start of the count of years to come, day 15 - Passover, Day 16 - Exodus
Moses and PoIsrael are commanded first to start counting the years
'This month shall be unto you the beginning of months it shall be
the first month of the year to you'.(Exodus 12,2)First month is the ancient month in Jewish calendar called Nisan during which the Passover happened....
To understand better the logic,
Peace, perhaps my question wasn't clear...
http//oi59.tinypic.com/34462hi.jpg
How do you know logically if you awoke from coma in cave , desert, or remote island if it's month 1, 3, 12, 13, etc.?
Ask people who awoke next to you from same coma?
Consult Exodus or call Jewish friend and ask arbitrary date set by someone long ago?1811 so "beat" we over ears theirs in the cave seasons number of
1812 furthermore raised we them to make evident which the two parties counted to what remain they duration of -
Salaam, peace to all,
I am back and going to reply to comments slowly but surely
How do you know logically if you awoke from coma in cave , desert, or remote island if it's month 1, 3, 12, 13, etc.?
Ask people who awoke next to you from same coma?
Consult Exodus or call Jewish friend and ask arbitrary date set by someone long ago?1811 so "beat" we over ears theirs in the cave seasons number of
1812 furthermore raised we them to make evident which the two parties counted to what remain they duration ofDear brother, no, you definitely shouldn't ask your Jewish friend because he might be following not the God's word in his idea on New year.. Consulting Exodus seems more wise as it after all is an account of God's guidance. Now let me explain why.
I believe that regarding God's system we should consult God, I'm not telling anyone to consult your Jewish friends or anyone for that matter. I only make the point that God's guidance can be found in His Holy Books Quran, Torah, Gospel, as long as we have open heart and cautious mind to cut through the bush of misconceptions. I think (but Allah knows best) that God knew that 'Muslims' at some point would grow arrogant towards rules that were sent earlier to the previous people and will ignore them, establishing their own system (Islamic calendar, holy days etc). This is why I think the verses regarding eg. Ramadhan or what direction we should pray to are not specified straighforward, clear cut. God gave people the right to search for the truth but at the same time repeated in many verses that 'you will find truth and guidance in Torah) etc. Nowadays, Muslims do not even consider that there are so many clues and crossreferences between both Books and they are made thinking that Torah is completely corrupted and shouldn't be read.
Having said that, of course, many verses in Torah, many Jewish traditions nowadays are not exactly what God gave them, but I believe that using both Quran and Torah, especially to establish certain rituals, can be very helpful.
As per your question about the months. As I said, follow the God's system, not human and you will be guided. According to Torah, first month of the year starts on the new moon following the spring equinox. God's calendar is a calendar of nature year starts when the nature awakens from the winter sleep and to me it sound more logical than secular new year on 1 January (in the middle of winter!! brrr what is there to celebrate??), present changed Jewish calendar (25 september 2014- why should we start new year when it actually almost ends??), or Islamic new year- 25 October 2015 (hadith driven, seems that they wanted to be different from Jewish and postponed it for one month).
What is interesting, many nature oriented religions also celebrate New year in March, just on the spring equinox (Naw Ruz in Iran and Afghanistan originating from Bhai, Hindu's Holi day). I don't know how people in olden days did it but it is clear that people always knew when is the spring and winter equinox, summer and winter solistice. The calendar given to people by God is , according to my research, luni solar and based strongly on determination of those natural phenomena. Nowadays we are so much detached from the nature that we cannot even comprehend its phonomena without consulting our phone apps and internet to determine them. In the Torah there is one verse saying that God placed moon and sun as a signs of time to people away from the people's reach, otherwise people could corrupt even them.. makes sense to me...
The issue of what calendar we should follow is much bigger than I realised even few months ago. What calendar one follows indicates what sort of 'God's system' one believes in. As I have researched, it seems that all the calendars were to some extent corrupted by people and based on wrong assumption. To find out what is the truth, I decided to go back to the beginning and the first mention of calendar system are found in Genesis and Exodus
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Salaam, peace to all,
I am back and going to reply to comments slowly but surely)
Dear brother, no, you definitely shouldn't ask your Jewish friend because he might be following not the God's word in his idea on New year.. Consulting Exodus seems more wise as it after all is an account of God's guidance. Now let me explain why.
I believe that regarding God's system we should consult God, I'm not telling anyone to consult your Jewish friends or anyone for that matter. I only make the point that God's guidance can be found in His Holy Books Quran, Torah, Gospel, as long as we have open heart and cautious mind to cut through the bush of misconceptions. I think (but Allah knows best) that God knew that 'Muslims' at some point would grow arrogant towards rules that were sent earlier to the previous people and will ignore them, establishing their own system (Islamic calendar, holy days etc). This is why I think the verses regarding eg. Ramadhan or what direction we should pray to are not specified straighforward, clear cut. God gave people the right to search for the truth but at the same time repeated in many verses that 'you will find truth and guidance in Torah) etc. Nowadays, Muslims do not even consider that there are so many clues and crossreferences between both Books and they are made thinking that Torah is completely corrupted and shouldn't be read.
Having said that, of course, many verses in Torah, many Jewish traditions nowadays are not exactly what God gave them, but I believe that using both Quran and Torah, especially to establish certain rituals, can be very helpful.
As per your question about the months. As I said, follow the God's system, not human and you will be guided. According to Torah, first month of the year starts on the new moon following the spring equinox. God's calendar is a calendar of nature year starts when the nature awakens from the winter sleep and to me it sound more logical than secular new year on 1 January (in the middle of winter!! brrr what is there to celebrate??), present changed Jewish calendar (25 september 2014- why should we start new year when it actually almost ends??), or Islamic new year- 25 October 2015 (hadith driven, seems that they wanted to be different from Jewish and postponed it for one month).
What is interesting, many nature oriented religions also celebrate New year in March, just on the spring equinox (Naw Ruz in Iran and Afghanistan originating from Bhai, Hindu's Holi day). I don't know how people in olden days did it but it is clear that people always knew when is the spring and winter equinox, summer and winter solistice. The calendar given to people by God is , according to my research, luni solar and based strongly on determination of those natural phenomena. Nowadays we are so much detached from the nature that we cannot even comprehend its phonomena without consulting our phone apps and internet to determine them. In the Torah there is one verse saying that God placed moon and sun as a signs of time to people away from the people's reach, otherwise people could corrupt even them.. makes sense to me...
The issue of what calendar we should follow is much bigger than I realised even few months ago. What calendar one follows indicates what sort of 'God's system' one believes in. As I have researched, it seems that all the calendars were to some extent corrupted by people and based on wrong assumption. To find out what is the truth, I decided to go back to the beginning and the first mention of calendar system are found in Genesis and Exodus
Thank you so much @roshan_m for this research, since it is most important and pressing, and to me personally very interesting.
I agree completely with you that actually EVERYTHING is the Torah!
The Qur'an might be an updated Torah so to speak...
But, as you probably know, even the Rabbis discussed many unclear issues in the Torah as it is not as straight forward as one might think, and that's why they modified the calendars somewhat.I agree with you that according to the calendar one follows one can say which God's system one follows.
That's why I am so puzzled that we are simply unable to find the right and correct calendar and a precise meaning for salat, kibla, ramadan fast or hajj... confusedI am somewhat familiar with WLC calendar and thinking, although I found it disputed in many serious places.
By the way, they calculated the Passover this year to be April the 13th, and not the 15th as you wrote. http//www.worldslastchance.com/lunisolarcalendar/web/WlcWeb.html
I am a little bit cautious with it because I think they are Adventist, no?Peace
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As per your question about the months. As I said, follow the God's system, not human and you will be guided. According to Torah, first month of the year starts on the new moon following the spring equinox.
Peace, OK that's what I was asking reference point; if count 12 what to do with occasional 13th, skip?
month days
1 29.53059
2 59.06118
3 88.59177
4 118.12236
5 147.65295
6 177.18354
7 206.71413
8 236.24472
9 265.77531
10 295.3059
11 324.83649
12 354.36708
365.2421988
1 383.89767
2 413.42826
3 442.95885
4 472.48944
5 502.02003
6 531.55062
7 561.08121
8 590.6118
9 620.14239
10 649.67298
11 679.20357
12 708.73416
730.4843976
1 738.26475
2 767.79534
3 797.32593
4 826.85652
5 856.38711
6 885.9177
7 915.44829
8 944.97888
9 974.50947
10 1004.04006
11 1033.57065
12 1063.10124
13 1092.63183 <-- what to do?
1095.726596 -
Peace,
this topic of intercalary month has been broadly discussed by brother Ayman on this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
It is a long thread but in short, according to ancient Jewish calendar (post exilic, before changes done in Babylon), in every 19 years there was one extra month added during the 7 years. Although it might seem complicated to us, to the people in old times it was easy. As mentioned earlier, they had lunisolar system. Every year, the first month Aviv (means 'spring' , start on the new moon after equinox) came after the 12th month Adar.
However, if after the end of 12th month there was no equinox, they simply added this extra 13th month, during which equinox had to happen and strated new year the following month. As mentioned earlier, people used to know exactly when the equinox started, based of their observation of nature, plants etc, so it wasn't a rocket science for them to determine it.
Based on lunisolar system, the leap month adjusts itself with no need for people to decide arbitrary when to add this month, which is quite amazing.
But it takes one thing being able to adjust to the nature.
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Thank you so much @roshan_m for this research, since it is most important and pressing, and to me personally very interesting.
I agree completely with you that actually EVERYTHING is the Torah!
The Qur'an might be an updated Torah so to speak...
But, as you probably know, even the Rabbis discussed many unclear issues in the Torah as it is not as straight forward as one might think, and that's why they modified the calendars somewhat.I agree with you that according to the calendar one follows one can say which God's system one follows.
That's why I am so puzzled that we are simply unable to find the right and correct calendar and a precise meaning for salat, kibla, ramadan fast or hajj... confusedI am somewhat familiar with WLC calendar and thinking, although I found it disputed in many serious places.
By the way, they calculated the Passover this year to be April the 13th, and not the 15th as you wrote. http//www.worldslastchance.com/lunisolarcalendar/web/WlcWeb.html
I am a little bit cautious with it because I think they are Adventist, no?Peace
GodSubmitter, thank you very much for your post, I am really happy that my post was interesting and gave you food for thought. I also find this research quite exciting and eye opening.
I really believe that God revealed the same message to all prophets, if the message is too complicated or not as stratightforward, it means that we misunderstood it or it had been made complicated by translators, rabbis and scholars along the way.
It is really difficult to find the meaning of Kibla, haj, ramadhan etc, because there is too much noise around, we were fed with certain assumptions for the whole of life and sometimes it's difficult to tell the truth from preconceivednotions. On the other hand, this difficulty makes the search even more fascinating.
Regarding WLC, yes they are adventists and some of their videos were really helpful for me to understand lunisolar system, however, I do not have to agree with them in all aspects. I only try to search for the truth, if I found some of it in Jehova's witnesses, I would appreciate it as well. I didn't know that they calculated Passover on 13th and I am quite surprised because it defies their own convictions... The full moon of Passover was on the 15th April (at least in Europe??) as far as I am concerned. BTW what do you think about celebrating Passover and The Week of Unleavened bread? Do you (if yes, how) celebrate it?
Peace
M. -
Thank you answer @roshan_m.
As for your question, I used to celebrate the passover, but since I've read THIS article I do not anymore
http//www.haemet.org/downloads/files/The%20True%20Passover.pdfI agree with the notion that the Creator had/has one identical message for mankind, but the practicality of it became almost impossible as we see results all around us by interpretations of people.
And I think even the "genuine" ones who sort of listen to God's voice confused seem to get different answers...As for WLC's calendar, as you saw, even they got it wrong, since we all know that the fool moon WAS on April the 15th
So, here is also an interesting article that debunks the so-called Lunar Sabbath completely
http//www.haemet.org/downloads/files/A%20Lunar%20Shabbat.pdf
Looking forward to more of your elucidations.
peace
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Peace to all,
thank you GodSubmitter for interesting articles. Regarding Passover I was meaning more spiritual side of celebrationg it. I have never celebrated Passover as I used to be Catholic Christian before studying Islam and considered myself Muslim, since then, I have done a lot of research that made me realise the value of certain Jewish traditions or ways of understanding God's system. I didn't know that Jewish were supposed to mark the door with blood and definitely I agree with the article that it shouldn't be done, that the whole point of Passover is Remembering such a great favour God gave to people who were enslaved by disbelievers rather than anything else.By the way, this tradition really reminds me of islamic Eid of sacrifice, when millions of poor lambs are slaughtered for remembrance of Abraham willing to kill his son as allegedly sacrifice for God! To me, such traditions smack of (God forbid) mockery from God and his Prophets and I find it completely irrelevant to our religious growth, and ecologically unsustainable. Ok, I am diverting the subject again..
As for the second article...hmm I am not so much convinced by it and it is a bit confusing.. The article criticises the argument for lunar Sabbath but doesn't offer any other, more logical alternative and for this reason I cannot be convinced by it..
If God is All Powerful, then He could have created perfect time keeping system and perfect calendar, He could have created a month equal to 28 days to the nearest second, same with the year, He had power to create a perfect year but he didn't. Why not? Perhaps, he wanted to see how people will manage this task in the face of ambiguity? See who will follow what kind of system, true or false? I don't really know. All I know from my research is that the lunisolar calendar seems the most logical and reliable, perfectly and naturally adjustable, in synch with the nature.For the Sabbath, I am not that concerned about it because Quran says that Sabbath was given to those who were arguing about it, in order to clarify their doubts and I don't consider myself as belonging to this group. Quran doesn't give specific day for assembly. The fact that muslims made Juma=Assembly day out of Friday is a different story altogether... After all, we should try to be good to others and grateful to God every day and ask God for more guidance... brickwall
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Salaam,
As mentioned in my previous post, Exodus holds the answer to it first month was ordained by God to Moses and his people just before the time of escape from Egypt and it starts from the new moon
Month ONE - new moon is the first day, this month is a start of the count of years to come, day 15 - Passover, Day 16 - Exodus
Moses and PoIsrael are commanded first to start counting the years
'This month shall be unto you the beginning of months it shall be
the first month of the year to you'.(Exodus 12,2)First month is the ancient month in Jewish calendar called Nisan during which the Passover happened.
The calendar given to the People of Moses was lunisolar it starts with the full moon, however count first day is when the crescent is visible, then on every 15th day sfter the new moon, you are sure that it will fall on the day of Sabbath-the seventh day. As you notice, even today, all the feasts and important events in the Jewish tradition falls on the day of Sabbath, although they also corrupted their ancient, lunisolar calendar in the later years and now they follow solar gregorian calendar (plus they celebrate new year during Rosh Hashna in September I guess, which is wronng as God told them clearly that the month of Passover, nissan is the first month!!), which claims that Sabbath is Saturday, which is NOT!!
To understand better the logic, please watch these videos I have provided in the first post as they explain nicely the system of ancient calendar of People of Moses.
Today 4/21 is one of the Oldest celebrated days, Ancient Egyptian Celebration of "spring day" ( Sham El Nesim - م
It might be cited as the day in Quran 2059
Moses said, "Our meeting day will be the day of festivities. Let us all meet in the forenoon." (2059)
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Today 4/21 is one of the Oldest celebrated days, Ancient Egyptian Celebration of "spring day" ( Sham El Nesim - م
It might be cited as the day in Quran 2059
Moses said, "Our meeting day will be the day of festivities. Let us all meet in the forenoon." (2059)
Peace, could you kindly elaborate based on Quran and other Scriptures what specifically is the relation of this day to Quran? Correct me if I wrong but I can't see any relation between this date and the quote that you have cited???
Best
M. -
Peace brother Noshirk,
my apologies for belated reply, your argument needed a bit more elaboration and time from my side and here its is
Leylatou el qadr is the night where Allah choose to send Quran. In red are the comments of brother noshirk from his thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605934.0'Thanks to brother ayman, we know that shahr mean full moon.
In 975, word salam is generally traduced by ?peaceful? but can be also traduced by delivery or even by ?healthy?The night in wich Quran was revealed was also Shahr Ramadhan
2185 Shahr Ramadhan, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the Criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the Shahr, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.'I absolutely agree on this one
Qadr means equilibrated measure. It leads for me to equinox day where length of day is equal to length of night, at the same time, throughout the world.
Equinox day is an easy day to determine astronomically from very old times. It is the day where sun rise exactly at the east, in the exact middle (qadr) of two east?s.Ramadhan, in arabic etymology, refers to a hot summer period but also Ramadhyou points to first rains after the hot season.
Meaning of Word Ramadhan is sufficient to throw away the stupid Hijri calendar in which Ramadan can fall even in winter.
Word Ramadhan, alone, points also to the fact that ramadhan is linked to seasons, and then that the Islamic year is a solar year.Not sure about it, just as Rmdh points out to few meanings, QDR might mean something different than just 'eqilibrium', the issue is what kind of equilibrium is God talking about? Is it rather not the Equilibrium of his message and fulfillment of it in the form of Quran? As for Ramadhan, as pointed out by other freeminders, first rains happen in different geografical locations at different time and I would say they are less reliable basis that the notion of hot season, which, apart from monsoon, equatorial locations, happen at more or less the same time (July-August) in locations North to the equatorial.
Also, I strongly believe that the God's calendar is lunisolar (God knows best), not just solar, see the above discussion. Some might say if you think that Lailat Qadr is on the 10th day after full moon following the summer solistice, how do you go about the fact that when it happens in the northern half of globe it doesn't in the southern??
To me the geographical location is not the most important concern. The Quran and Torah clearly attach days of importance (ramadhan, pilgrimage months, feasts) to the seasonal phenomena and being concerned about what happens on the other half of the globe is irrelevant. Even if we consider autumn equinox to be the indicator of night of Qadr, still on the South it will be spring equinox at this same time, so people from South will need to wait another half year for their sutumn equinox to happen down there.
Recently I happened to think whether indication of climate in the area of 'holy land' has anything universal to say to the majority of inhabitants of earth and this is what I have found
http//www.geekosystem.com/world-population-latitude-longitude/
ALMOST 90% of world population lives in the NORTHERN HEMISPHERE, with about half north of 27 degrees north!!!!
As you can see the map, the most favourable conditions for the world population is between the latitudes including North Africa/America towards the south of Europe. Interestingly, the region of holy land (Jerusalem, Jordan) are located literally in the middle of the most favourable and the most populated latitudes in the Earth.The implication of such beautiful graph is that, statistically speaking, large majority (90%) of human population will celebrate seasonal Ramadhan during one day anyway
Sunnato Allah never Changes
Despicte reluctancy of muslims to follow what ?jews and Christians? do, it seems that the are nearer to the true ashor haram.
2197 The Hajj ashor are made known. So whoever decides to perform the Hajj therein, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor wickedness, nor baseless argument in the Hajj. And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O you who possess intelligence.
What mean Hajj Ashor are made known ?
That mean that it is not lost and that we can probably find then in jew version of sunnato allah.Jewish Feast of Succot is the 15 th day of 7 th month of jewish calendar who begin in march. It is called Hag ha (hajja?) Soukkot and occurs in the full moon of september/October. It is our ramadhan.
It is funny to note that ?the feast of the new year? is in the seven month of jewish calendar.
Pessah pilgrimnage Feast also occurs in a full moon (15 th day of the month) during first month of jewish calendar, that is 7 th month if we begin counting from September.
So we have already the two full moons near the two equinoxese in the jewish calendar.
They are accurately fixed by torah.The third pilgrimage Jewish feast is the Shavou'ot feast and don?t ?fit? with the summer solistice actually. It is now around May. However This Feast is not accurately fixed by torah who refers to ?agricultural timings?.
There is no 4th pilgrimnage. The lacking one should have occurred around December, the winter solistice, who correspond funningly to ?Birth of Jesus? and ?birth of Persian Mithra?. The facts that jewish would have rejected a pilgrimnage associated to the messiah they rejected is not amazing.
I agree that Passover, Shavout and Sukkot are the three months of pilgrimage that were ordained by God. However the fourth sacred time is in my opinion the time of Ramnadhan (10 days of fasting from full moon after the summer solistice), have a look at my analysis above.
Why not suggested by you December (as the birthday of Jesus)? As you see, most of the festivals in Torah refer to certain seasonal feasts and important events for the believers (Passover, giving of the Torah/Quran). I do not feel that birthday of any of the Prophets, Jesus including would be so important to be celebrated. I feel that it shouldn't be celebrated and the reason is quite clear if we look at what happened with so called Christ birthday Christmas. If Jesus' birthday was so important, Jesus himself would have started to celebrate it, but knowing his modesty from Gospel, this was absolutely not the case, and it shouldn't be.
For this reason, I believe that the fourth sacred time is the time of Qadr= giving of Qurand and Torah on the 10th day after full moon after the summer solistice....Peace
M. -
Peace, could you kindly elaborate based on Quran and other Scriptures what specifically is the relation of this day to Quran? Correct me if I wrong but I can't see any relation between this date and the quote that you have cited???
Best
M.That means that there might be some correlation between this Ancient Egyptian "Spring day", and the calender system of the Torah.
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Peace be with you all.
Thank you so much for the Post. So 13 July - 23rd completes the 10 days of Ramadhan? -