Any Quranist Mosque?
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Hi everyone.
I don't know if it's the right area to write about this, but anyway... Is there any quranist Mosque? Since a lot of sunni/shia consider us kafir...
Thank you so much, peace.
There is no Sunni, Shiite, Salafi or Quranist mosque... a mosque is a mosque, and its a building to worship God, you can make your own room a mosque to worship God, or you can go to a church.. these things are made up by people... Even the word "Quranist" is now becoming a sect like name... we are all Muslims (Who ever submits to God, don't matter what he calls him/herself"....
About Sunni/Shia considering us kafir... Well, such a decision can only be done by God himself... lets not forget even some Quranists consider Sunni/Shia as kafir and mushrik (I know they are two different things, so don't go there anyone). And many are present in this forum.
The point here is, Extremism is wrong, even if you are doing it for the right cause..
a decade ago I was a sunni, I never called anyone kafir..
Now I'm a Quranic Muslim, I still call no one kafir..The action of Kufr comes from the Heart, and only Allah knows what is in the Heart..
So a yesterday's sunni/shitte and a today's "Quranist" who call each other kafir and mushrik are the same to me.Peace,
Yami. -
There is no Sunni, Shiite, Salafi or Quranist mosque... a mosque is a mosque, and its a building to worship God, you can make your own room a mosque to worship God, or you can go to a church.. these things are made up by people... Even the word "Quranist" is now becoming a sect like name... we are all Muslims (Who ever submits to God, don't matter what he calls him/herself"....
About Sunni/Shia considering us kafir... Well, such a decision can only be done by God himself... lets not forget even some Quranists consider Sunni/Shia as kafir and mushrik (I know they are two different things, so don't go there anyone). And many are present in this forum.
The point here is, Extremism is wrong, even if you are doing it for the right cause..
a decade ago I was a sunni, I never called anyone kafir..
Now I'm a Quranic Muslim, I still call no one kafir..The action of Kufr comes from the Heart, and only Allah knows what is in the Heart..
So a yesterday's sunni/shitte and a today's "Quranist" who call each other kafir and mushrik are the same to me.Peace,
Yami.Hi
Thank you so much for you answer brother. I totally agree with you.
Peace.
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Peace
I think the OP meant "a temple where only God is commemorated", not Jesus or Muhammad. Aside the submitters' mosque in Tucson Arizona, i can't think of any other. Personally, i pray in orthodox muslims' mosque when i got no option although i never join their congregation, that would be indulging in idolatry.And while am not fond of the name "Quranist", am not averse either. But sticking to the word; "Muslim" doesn't define you as non sectarian. You don't need a name to form a sect. Once you have an ideology different from others, you 've become a sect.
Although i prefer the term "unorthodox muslims" when refering those Muslims that stick to the Scriptures alone.
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Peace
I think the OP meant "a temple where only God is commemorated", not Jesus or Muhammad. Aside the submitters' mosque in Tucson Arizona, i can't think of any other. Personally, i pray in orthodox muslims' mosque when i got no option although i never join their congregation, that would be indulging in idolatry.And while am not fond of the name "Quranist", am not averse either. But sticking to the word; "Muslim" doesn't define you as non sectarian. You don't need a name to form a sect. Once you have an ideology different from others, you 've become a sect.
Although i prefer the term "unorthodox muslims" when refering those Muslims that stick to the Scriptures alone.
Peace,
I know what the brother meant. And in no Mosque you will find the ideal "a temple where only God is commemorated"... People call for other than humans, they go material benefits as well.. so its meaningless from the bottom of it to classify mosques!Personally, whatever mosque you perfrom your prayers in, that is your problem and your choice.. your prayers count not the place you pray in! "that would be indulging in idolatry." seriously... go educate your self more... How come (thinking someone else is God, can in any context mean (Praying with others). A sunni/shia in that case is much better than you... he won't mind praying in a "Quranic unorthodox" mosque..
You are so willing somehow to form a sect, its a mind-base thing rather than an ideology... You are prone for more mistakes then, A muslims (submitter) is enough to me.. above All we are humans, those differences won't count as sect's unless your mind-types think of it as a must-protect entity and fight to protect it.
I'm sorry If I'm harsh..
But just because you are a Quranist now, that doesn't mean you have changed that much.Its like changing the body of a patient with congestive heart failure, where the heart stays the same..
Peace,
Yami. -
The thing is that you probably don't get my point.
It's not about "I want to go in a quranist mosque because I'm quranist", but because a lot of sunni I know don't want me to pray with them because they call me kafir and so I want to know if there's a mosque more "open minded" if you know what I mean.Peace
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Peace,
I know what the brother meant. And in no Mosque you will find the ideal "a temple where only God is commemorated"... People call for other than humans, they go material benefits as well.. so its meaningless from the bottom of it to classify mosques!Commemorate as in invoke. People don't invoke material benefits.
Personally, whatever mosque you perfrom your prayers in, that is your problem and your choice.. your prayers count not the place you pray in! "that would be indulging in idolatry." seriously... go educate your self more... How come (thinking someone else is God, can in any context mean (Praying with others).
If i enter a random mosque and join them Salat knowing fully well that they invoke Muhammad alongside with God, isn't that idolatry? Could you join a congregation that insist on diefying(Quran 721 the prophet and giving him more distinction(Quran 384) than other prophets in the course of their Salat?
A sunni/shia in that case is much better than you... he won't mind praying in a "Quranic unorthodox" mosque..
Well, a sunni/shiite would neither pray in your mosque nor join your congregation once he learns you do not mention Muhammad in your Adhan/Iqama or recite darood(send blessing/greeting) to Muhammad in Tashahood.
You are so willing somehow to form a sect, its a mind-base thing rather than an ideology... You are prone for more mistakes then, A muslims (submitter) is enough to me.. above All we are humans, those differences won't count as sect's unless your mind-types think of it as a must-protect entity and fight to protect it.
Of course even sunnis claim to be just "muslims", you never find any call himself a "sunni". Am not in support of creating sects at all, that is why i earlier stated am not fond of the
term; Quranist. As you say, the name has a sectarian connotation. But to assume strictly calling myself a 'muslim' will curb sectarianism is naive. If i don't call myself Quranist, others(sunnis/shiites) will do so regardless. It is not something i can do much to correct. -
Commemorate as in invoke. People don't invoke material benefits.
If i enter a random mosque and join them Salat knowing fully well that they invoke Muhammad alongside with God, isn't that idolatry? Could you join a congregation that insist on diefying(Quran 721 the prophet and giving him more distinction(Quran 384) than other prophets in the course of their Salat?
Well, a sunni/shiite would neither pray in your mosque nor join your congregation once he learns you do not mention Muhammad in your Adhan/Iqama or recite darood(send blessing/greeting) to Muhammad in Tashahood.
Of course even sunnis claim to be just "muslims", you never find any call himself a "sunni". Am not in support of creating sects at all, that is why i earlier stated am not fond of the
term; Quranist. As you say, the name has a sectarian connotation. But to assume strictly calling myself a 'muslim' will curb sectarianism is naive. If i don't call myself Quranist, others(sunnis/shiites) will do so regardless. It is not something i can do much to correct.People invoking something is different than worship.
If they Ask Muhammad what should be asked to Allah, then I agree... but no Muslim does that, not even the most strict Sunni's, i.e Salafi/Wahabi sects. I have never seen anyone, worship or invoke Muhammad, they just pray for him and make supplication, he was the one who went through the most sever form of hardship to deliver this message to us, so he deserves it, I don't know if have knowledge on his biography, but I really recommend it, He is a hero, a Prophet chosen by God, but I NEVER said invoke and/or worship... and I'm against distinction and magnifying one over another, but you can not deny the closeness we have between us and him as compared to the rest. (nothing implied here)I bet neither you nor any one else can be very sure whether a Muslims will pray with you or not about knowing that you don't do Salawat for the prophet, I know that extremists do, that exists in Quranists as well, they won't pray with those whom call Muhammad.. both sides are wrong. Extremism is wrong, pray with them, but don't agree with them, and help them to change, isn't that betteer than leaving them alone ?
The more you split people to differences, the more problems will rise.
Allah has commanded that we should find similarities between us and Jews + Christians, what kind of logic accepts what current Muslim extremists would do by focusing on differences and nothing else ?Here is an article just released by someone,
I recommend you to read it brotherhttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606501.0
Peace,
Yami. -
Peace Yamibato,
Sorry, but what is it that you write?
he was the one who went through the most sever form of hardship to deliver this message to us, so he deserves it
Do you not think that any of the other of God's missionaries ran into hardship? Or any anonymous righteous individual that served God.
He is a hero, a Prophet chosen by God, but I NEVER said invoke and/or worship.
It is sadly enough clear idolatry in the tone of your writing. Distinction to make Muhammad any particular person even as he could have been just anyone who is reverent. And you cannot contact him in Heaven and it is utterly useless to mention him in your prayer, and it causes some distinction as well as your contact is supposed to be with God alone. You cannot change anything about him in Heaven and he cannot change anything that you are already entitled to or not.
The service to God is supposed to be devoted solely to God alone as well as the location that is making contact. It speaks for itself that ought to be wrong to perform a contact within an idolatrous temple. Are you going to get helped by The Lord when you utter your words within a community that is misguided and socialize with them and make contact with them on top of that?
You need to stay away from that and it is better to stay home in your bedroom where your contact can be devoted to God alone, or in a small group that truly serves God.
The more you split people to differences, the more problems will rise.
It is not about splitting anything but about joining an activity that meets the criteria of polytheism. If a group of Christians who are "Unitarian" were performing a prayer then I could join that as well even if I traditionally would label myself Muslim, but I cannot join a Communion where others are mention alongside with God, no matter "religion". That would be wrong.
And it is not about being arrogant but about doing what is right and not wrong.
but you can not deny the closeness we have between us and him as compared to the rest.
I have no more closeness to Muhammad than I have to any other of God's servants. On a personal preference I would likely go along better with someone like Moses if we talk personality chemistry, if we involve the socializing factor and that is not because I think they are better "Prophets or "Missionaries/Messengers" but because my personality is quite alike him (not saying we would stand each other though rotfl). That they became so close to God, all of them, is fantastic, but from a decree-bearing perspective they just did their "jobs". And they were not perfect, and then I do not only mean Jonah*, but also Muhammad had his personality causing trouble in his service to God.
- Jonah openly disobeyed God, but was actually forgiven and retained his status as a missionary.
they won't pray with those whom call Muhammad.. both sides are wrong
It is not wrong to refuse praying with someone who would call Muhammad in his contact.
Extremism is wrong
In this case it is not extremism but doing what is right, and it is not oppression.
but you can not deny the closeness we have between us and him as compared to the rest. (nothing implied here)
You actually imply that Muhammad is your idol, and could be why you would accept mentioning his name in a summoning despite that the decree says no-no.
God bless you
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Sunnis say 'Assalamu alayka ayyuhannabee" (assalamu alayka, O Prophet ) in salat.
This is calling and is against the verse 7218. Its also shirk. And also this is a direct speech to a dead prophet who cannot hear.
If it is 'salam ala nabee',(peace on prophet) then it would not have been calling, its ok.
Saying 'salamun alal mursaleen' wishing peace on all prophets including Prophet Muhammad alayhissalam is right.
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now i've a doubt saying 'salam ala nabee' would be considered as 'rememberance of nabee' which'll be against 2014 ?
I recite Quranic verses, 37180-182, mostly during tashahhud (as per 5040), but starts with subhana rabbee rabbil...(37180)
and says 'wa salamun alal mursaleen (37181). -
Peace,
I would focus my connection to God on seeking Nearness and Guidance rather than wishing peace on someone who already has maximum bliss. Perhaps wishing peace/unity upon the righteous contemporary friends and family would be in order.
That is for you to receive inspiration that you may serve God better and get blessed. With God's help you will become successful in whatever you do as long as you show appreciation. You shall "walk along the beach with The Lord". God has an integral part of your life and your Master is always there, always near. Live in symbiosis and communion with His creation is the best because then you are walking along the beach with the Lord.
God bless you
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Salam brother Man of Faith,
I think you are getting me wrong, so I gotta make my self clear more.Do you not think that any of the other of God's missionaries ran into hardship? Or any anonymous righteous individual that served God.
I never said such a thing, thousands more have died and been presecuted for the same reason, my point was not to say "Muhammad was the only one", my point was since "he was one of those, so lets not forget what he did."
It is sadly enough clear idolatry in the tone of your writing. Distinction to make Muhammad any particular person even as he could have been just anyone who is reverent.
Bro, I really hate this cross-shirk calling to each other between sects, when I was a sunni I hated it, it was against my fitra, same as now, no one has the right to declare someone as idolater or not, it depends on your intentions, and God alone knows what is anyones intentions. I never did, nor will I ever will make Muhammad, more distinct or more superior to his brothers in mission, All prophet's are the same to me, they all had the same message.. however by the nature of the subject, we know more about Muhammad's life that about Noah don't we ? so why not learn from his life ? he was a prophet, I mean I have no objection to learn from Enstein, Ghandi and Martin Luther's life.. and they were no prophets, why should I have one when it comes to Muhammad ?
And you cannot contact him in Heaven and it is utterly useless to mention him in your prayer, and it causes some distinction as well as your contact is supposed to be with God alone. You cannot change anything about him in Heaven and he cannot change anything that you are already entitled to or not.
sure I agree with everything you said there. )
The service to God is supposed to be devoted solely to God alone as well as the location that is making contact. It speaks for itself that ought to be wrong to perform a contact within an idolatrous temple. Are you going to get helped by The Lord when you utter your words within a community that is misguided and socialize with them and make contact with them on top of that?
Agree with the service being done to God alone bro, but there is no specific location for that... you can call God alone even in the bathroom if you want to, or in a church if you want to, adding further to religious values will make it more complicated for yourself and those around you. And there is no "Idolatrous temple" !! I mean seriously ? how can you call a temple idolatrous ? I mean yes you are right, there are thousands of places were idolatry is held on to, but that does not make the place infected does it ? why this logic here ?
Yes I believe i will still be helped even If I pray with a Sunni, though am no longer one, and I no longer pray the way they do, nor think the way they do, nor even believe the same way the do. but they are not criminals, they are trying to be good intentionally, they have felt for the trick of people long ago, instead of despising them, go help them, we were mostly once all sunni's.. at least I was, and when I was there, I wanted to be helped, not despised.
If you read the Qur'an with scrutiny, you will notice that the prophets were to stay in their people for a long time, they used to call them to truth and guidance, the only moment they left was when they were hopeless of them... so this act of disinguishing between Quranists and sunnis will lead to further trouble... we can accept each other, but we can critisize each others ideology to the heart. that is what I'm with, and not the runaway stay in a "non-idolatrous temple" which some people believe in. Seriosuly, with all respect, I believe it is ridiculous.
You need to stay away from that and it is better to stay home in your bedroom where your contact can be devoted to God alone, or in a small group that truly serves God.
I used to go the mosque a lot, but now I don't.. the only reason is, because I will waste my time there if I do, not because they are "Idolaters"... and if one day, they change, I will be more than happy to rejoin them, still from time to time, I will go and pay them a visist, its something humanitarian, and I believe it is good to do that.
It is not about splitting anything but about joining an activity that meets the criteria of polytheism. If a group of Christians who are "Unitarian" were performing a prayer then I could join that as well even if I traditionally would label myself Muslim, but I cannot join a Communion where others are mention alongside with God, no matter "religion". That would be wrong.
And it is not about being arrogant but about doing what is right and not wrong.
I have no more closeness to Muhammad than I have to any other of God's servants. On a personal preference I would likely go along better with someone like Moses if we talk personality chemistry, if we involve the socializing factor and that is not because I think they are better "Prophets or "Missionaries/Messengers" but because my personality is quite alike him (not saying we would stand each other though rotfl). That they became so close to God, all of them, is fantastic, but from a decree-bearing perspective they just did their "jobs". And they were not perfect, and then I do not only mean Jonah*, but also Muhammad had his personality causing trouble in his service to God.
Agree with everything you said there, personally, I feel close to Abraham a lot.. for reasons I would like to keep to my self. )
- Jonah openly disobeyed God, but was actually forgiven and retained his status as a missionary.
It is not wrong to refuse praying with someone who would call Muhammad in his contact.
In this case it is not extremism but doing what is right, and it is not oppression.
You actually imply that Muhammad is your idol, and could be why you would accept mentioning his name in a summoning despite that the decree says no-no.
What Jonah did was leaving his people because they were not obeying God, and God commaneded him to stay with them, isn't that a remarkable example you mentioned ? stay with them ) ? anyway, I don't call for any thing other than God in my prayer, neither does a sunni... they just send him salutations and peace, though I don't think that will change anything, but I'm against calling this "idolatry" when its just salutations rather than worshipping Muhammad and calling him to bless humans. Yeah I call that shirk as well. but that is not what sunnis do. If you were a Sunni and you understood what they said, then for sure you will not call that shirk.
On more thing is, I don't take Muhammad as an idol, I take him as a roll model, someone I want to be like him..
same way I want to be like Richard feynman, John lenon or any other famous personality as a human... So don't mix between a roll model, and someone to worship.God bless you too brother.
I hope I made my self clear.Peace,
Yami. -
It's the same thing.
Taking someone as a role model means you idolize them.
As none of us ever knew how exactly Prophet Mohammed was apart from what was mentioned about him in the Quran, it is impossible to take him as a role model.
When God mentioned to follow the prophet's example in the Quran, he was talking about the rules. Prophet was following god's rules on how to behave, so those wishing to stay on the true path could see how to act.
How to be a good Muslim is in the Quran.
All we can do is be good, true and follow Allah's commands. No need to take someone as a role model.
Now, can we get back to the topic? This is about having a quranist mosque which is needed these days.
Although I'm open for a prayer place that welcomes everyone- we have to keep the horrible narrow minded people away with their preachings and hostile nature.
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Taking someone as a role model means you idolize them.
When you can not differentiate between idolizing and roll modeling.. you are doomed to make fatal mistakes in your life.
As none of us ever knew how exactly Prophet Mohammed was apart from what was mentioned about him in the Quran, it is impossible to take him as a role model.
Exactly, so what ever is there, I will accept it AS LONG as it goes along with the Qur'an, his acts of forgivement, of charity, love, friendship, neighbours love, taking care of others, visisting sick people and socializing with others..etc
And whatever goes against the Qur'an, like those fabricatiosn which came from today's tampered bible, I will definately refuse, like those misogynistic ideas, barbaric brutality, bigotry, selfishness and intolerance..etc
When God mentioned to follow the prophet's example in the Quran, he was talking about the rules. Prophet was following god's rules on how to behave, so those wishing to stay on the true path could see how to act.
That is what I'm doing.
No need to take someone as a role model.
You need some education. Go out and see life, roll modeling is beign inspired by someone who has done something good to be remembered, like for example taking Neils Bohr for basing the Qunatum Mechanics theory.. If you haven't expereinced inspiration, then go to a psychotherapist.
Now, can we get back to the topic? This is about having a quranist mosque which is needed these days.
You could have ignoted my comment and went directly to the topic if u wanted to, but your double standardism is as low as your commment, sorry for being harsh, I'm honest, and I'm direct.
Although I'm open for a prayer place that welcomes everyone- we have to keep the horrible narrow minded people away with their preachings and hostile nature.
"Before you try to diagnose people with something, make sure you are no one of them first"
-- 2 Pac.yeah 2 Pac is a roll model 2 me as well.
I'm surprised some people still have the same mind-base even after leaving behind all those ignorant-imported teaching to Islam through Sunna.
Peace,
Yami. -
Yamibato,
Your defensive attitude shows that you are getting offended. That was not my intention.
I was merely stating a fact. To take someone as a role model means you idolize them. You want to be them. That's what taking someone as a role model means.
You are confused. Instead of trying to pass cheap insults to people, maybe you should go look in the dictionary.
You also need to read the Quran more. Especially on how to respect other Quran only muslims.
I do not take offence at your words.
In terms of education,
I know me. You don't.
You also need to take your own advice.
I posted because I knew you were wrong or either confused. Just wanted to help you clear things hence which is why I posted my comment.
I'm not going to argue with you. You can do that by yourself.
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3321 Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God
684 And you are of a high moral character.
So yes, Prophet Muhammad's (alayhissalam) character is praised by Quran. We know how he was. There is no question about his character. Doubting the Prophet's character is doubting the Quran.
Peace
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You need some education. Go out and see life, roll modeling is beign inspired by someone who has done something good to be remembered, like for example taking Neils Bohr for basing the Qunatum Mechanics theory.. If you haven't expereinced inspiration, then go to a psychotherapist.
Brother, isn't God want us to apply kindness?
If you take Prophet as your role model, then do you really follow his attitudes?
I suppose the Prophet was a man who act kindly, loving, humble, caring in tenderness toward the other believers.
You could have ignoted my comment and went directly to the topic if u wanted to, but your double standardism is as low as your commment, sorry for being harsh, I'm honest, and I'm direct.
Honesty is important, however I think being honest can be done by using better words to speak.
I really hope that all brothers in this forum can at least apply patience and kindness toward their sisters by not saying hurtful words.
Peace.