Free Will / Free Choice... Is the Creator all knowledgeable?
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The workers who work on behalf of Allah?
Do you know who are they, brother? Do you mean the angels?
Peace.
Peace,
There are "WE" who were given authority by Allah. And they even rule on angels )
Like in 1761 "And when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam,"..."May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
I think prostrate means that adam was in charge on earth apart from allah always being in charge offcourse. It doesn't mean to physically prostrating. The devil had to prostrate also but refused. If it was physicall than it's commiting shirk in my view. Do some also think that way? For example starts also prostrate according quran that can't be physical.
Peace peace
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There are "WE" who were given authority by Allah.
But, who are they? confused
And they even rule on angels )
Wow! So cool... D
Like in 1761 "And when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam,"..."
So, do you think that "those" who referred to as "We" (on the verse above) does not include Allah?
Peace.
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I think prostrate means that adam was in charge on earth apart from allah always being in charge offcourse. It doesn't mean to physically prostrating. The devil had to prostrate also but refused. If it was physicall than it's commiting shirk in my view. Do some also think that way? For example starts also prostrate according quran that can't be physical.
Peace peace
Peace,
Yes I also think physical prostrating to someone other than Allah is shirk.
You can take a look at my thread about it here.May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace Ikrame,
The angels were told to respect Adam and not prostrate to him. And Ibless refused because he looked down on someone that was much inferior in his eyes.
God bless you
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But, who are they? confused
Salaam,
They are the other creation other than human and jinn.
It is like you decided to construct your house. And you gave it to a contractor and labors work to construct it.
But still you say that I built this house in 2012.
Labors say WE built this house in 2012.And both are correct, this is how I understand it.
Wow! So cool... D
So, do you think that "those" who referred to as "We" (on the verse above) does not include Allah?Peace.
Of-course not, Allah never include anyone in His work but He just order hail alhamduliAllah hail
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace Ikrame,
Just you will probably not find many if any that translates it that way. It is a claim by me based on studies of the original Arabic word sjd independent from use of traditional bias and with a better literal quality use of the word in its occurrences.
God bless you
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And Ibless refused because he looked down on someone that was much inferior in his eyes.
Lessons learned
- Don't be proud
- Do not see yourselves, your social identity, your country, your religion, your favorite holy book, your favorite football team, your group etc.. as superior to others..
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Peace everyone,
I agree with mmkhan about "we" being other entities. Most likely they are the 6th and 7th density beings who have been given control by the Infinite Creator. We are 3rd density beings who will evolve to the 4th density state of existence (what is referred to as paradise or heaven in the Quran). Then we will continue to evolve until we reach 5th, 6th and then the 7th density states of existence over millions of years and then eventually we will return to the one Infinite Creator.
We are all living in the past of the Infinite Creator (relatively speaking, because the Infinite Creator is not bound by time and space). So everything that is happening now for us has already happened for the Infinite Creator. That is how the Infinite Creator knows everything even though we are choosing it now in our present using the law of free will.
Question to everyone Is the Creator infinite? If yes, then where does the Infinite Creator end and we begin? So are we (creation) separate from the Infinite Creator? If yes then the Creator ends somewhere and the creation begins at that point and the Creator is not infinite. So what is the reality? Think about it. There is only one logical conclusion, and that will clarify the "we" and "I" !!
All praise, glory and thanks belong to the Infinite Creator.
Peace
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I agree with mmkhan about "we" being other entities. Most likely they are the 6th and 7th density beings who have been given control by the Infinite Creator. We are 3rd density beings who will evolve to the 4th density state of existence (what is referred to as paradise or heaven in the Quran). Then we will continue to evolve until we reach 5th, 6th and then the 7th density states of existence over millions of years and then eventually we will return to the one Infinite Creator.
I heard similar concept from "Theravadaist" with their 7 stage of enlightenment..
Question to everyone Is the Creator infinite?
Yes
The Tao is like a well used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void filled with infinite possibilities.
It is hidden but always present.If yes, then where does the Infinite Creator end and we begin?
He/it has no beginning and no end on all dimension (space, time or others that we're not aware of)
Otherwise he/it's not infinite."Me" (from any perspective, angle and dimension) are within..
This lead to another intriguing question Where is you in you? (or me in me).
When you look at yourself in the mirror- Can you pinpoint where is you in you?
- Do you see "one being"? or millions of it?
As a reference One human body is a country with population of ten to twenty millions of 'micro-sized beings'.
So are we (creation) separate from the Infinite Creator?
Nope
So what is the reality? Think about it.
All 'realities' are projection of things that one received through its senses.
The 'real' you doesn't necessarily need to be within the reality itself.
As long as you're receiving the 'projection' coming from your senses, you will still perceived the reality as you're experiencing it.Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.
Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. -
Jafar bravo handshake
I am becoming a big fan of yours )
We are all part of the Infinite Creator. We are all one. The separateness is just a temporary illusion in our 3rd density state of existence, as the various physical manifestations of the same infinite energy.
The trillions of cells in Jafar's body cannot each claim to be Jafar, but the collection of the trillions of cells can claim to be Jafar. When Jafar eats, the trillions of cells are absorbing nutrients through the membranes and they can say "We" ate, and Jafar can say "I" ate.
Events happening at the micro quantum level are random just like free will but at the macro level it only results in a certain definite event. At the cellular level certain amino acid molecules might be picked at random (free will) to construct a protein and other amino acid molecules might be picked at random (free will) to be metabolized, but the end result is life.
All humans (micro parts of the One) might make different micro decisions using their free will but the macro end result in the long run over millions of years will always be ascension and evolution towards merging back with the One and disappearance of the illusion of separateness. The paths taken using free will might be different, some much longer than others, and some much shorter and faster, but they will all result in a greater diversity of experience and lead to the same destination eventually.
Thus the Infinite Creator experiences itself. The experience is greater and more diverse and the evolution is faster with presence of polarity of good and bad and the presence of free will, than with the absence of free will and thereby existence of good only.
Everyone think and meditate about this.
All praise, glory and thanks belong to the One Infinite Creator.
Peace
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Peace,
So you think God knows aye?
Well God sure knows a lot so that is a matter near conjecture as a topic, but one thing is sure and that is we cannot go around with that image in our minds. It is dangerous because it mayi invite to not actively take part.
God bless you
Lol, I know God knows what has been predestined, I know God knows what will happen as a result of taking a path. I don't think God knows which path we will take but if God works in real-time (which I expect it does) then every move we make God plans and will be prepared for the next move we take because God knows all moves... If that makes sense. Either way, the main thing as you said isn't to be all like 'oh I'll let God decide my fate" cos it defeats the point in my opinion. You choose the path which will result in a different outcome than another path (or it could result in the same outcome). Either way God knows the outcomes, we don't so we couldn't say if it would be different or not anyway ).
(PS sorry for the late response, I haven't had a chance to rest for a second except now)
peace
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Jafar bravo handshake
I am becoming a big fan of yours )
We are all part of the Infinite Creator. We are all one. The separateness is just a temporary illusion in our 3rd density state of existence, as the various physical manifestations of the same infinite energy.
The trillions of cells in Jafar's body cannot each claim to be Jafar, but the collection of the trillions of cells can claim to be Jafar. When Jafar eats, the trillions of cells are absorbing nutrients through the membranes and they can say "We" ate, and Jafar can say "I" ate.
Events happening at the micro quantum level are random just like free will but at the macro level it only results in a certain definite event. At the cellular level certain amino acid molecules might be picked at random (free will) to construct a protein and other amino acid molecules might be picked at random (free will) to be metabolized, but the end result is life.
All humans (micro parts of the One) might make different micro decisions using their free will but the macro end result in the long run over millions of years will always be ascension and evolution towards merging back with the One and disappearance of the illusion of separateness. The paths taken using free will might be different, some much longer than others, and some much shorter and faster, but they will all result in a greater diversity of experience and lead to the same destination eventually.
Thus the Infinite Creator experiences itself. The experience is greater and more diverse and the evolution is faster with presence of polarity of good and bad and the presence of free will, than with the absence of free will and thereby existence of good only.
Everyone think and meditate about this.
All praise, glory and thanks belong to the One Infinite Creator.
Peace
Peace,
Please correct me if I am wrong.
The problems I see from your post above specially the highlighted part are mentioned below.- Do our own parts have a free will and can they go against our us? If yes,
- How can we punish our own parts when they go against our will? But Allah punishes us when we go against His will. So,
- How can we be a part of Allah? Why Allah punishes His own parts?
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Lol, I know God knows what has been predestined, I know God knows what will happen as a result of taking a path. I don't think God knows which path we will take but if God works in real-time (which I expect it does) then every move we make God plans and will be prepared for the next move we take because God knows all moves... If that makes sense. Either way, the main thing as you said isn't to be all like 'oh I'll let God decide my fate" cos it defeats the point in my opinion. You choose the path which will result in a different outcome than another path (or it could result in the same outcome). Either way God knows the outcomes, we don't so we couldn't say if it would be different or not anyway ).
(PS sorry for the late response, I haven't had a chance to rest for a second except now)
peace
Peace,
Sorry I disagree with both the highlighted parts above.
Red If Allah doesn't know which path we will take then how about 287?
287
And We inspired to the mother of Musa, "Suckle him; but when you fear for him, cast him into the river and do not fear and do not grieve. Indeed, We will return him to you and will make him of the messengers."
Allah surely knows that Musa is going to be good person, and reaches the high positions, so said, we will make him of the messengers.
Blue And if every move we make is according to Allah's plan, then there is no reason to punish us.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Is God all knowledgeable? Yes. But I think Free will of human is not the yardstick to define God's knowledge, since our Free will in no way going to affect the system. Whatever happened is happened for Good and as per his will. Our Free will do affect our state of mind and responsible for hell state or the ultimate heaven.
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Peace,
Sorry I disagree with both the highlighted parts above.
Red If Allah doesn't know which path we will take then how about 287?
287
And We inspired to the mother of Musa, "Suckle him; but when you fear for him, cast him into the river and do not fear and do not grieve. Indeed, We will return him to you and will make him of the messengers."
Allah surely knows that Musa is going to be good person, and reaches the high positions, so said, we will make him of the messengers.
Blue And if every move we make is according to Allah's plan, then there is no reason to punish us.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanPeace mmkhan,
If God knows WHICH path we will take, let's say it does, then why do you believe the "we" (whoever you think it is) in the verses i quoted previously asked Moses that question? Why does the "we" have to ask any questions?
peace
- truthseeker & Jafar, awesome speeches man peace
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Tehre is such a thing as socratic questions, and in fact the Qur'an asks a lot in general. It is an invitation to ask ourselves, to put those questions us to ourselves. Not only the Qur'an, people do it all the time, ask questions to make the other think. It is about the most didactic method there is.
Salaam