Resolve the confusion--pronoun in 16:66 and 23:21
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Who said anything about word-by-word interpretation. Anyway it is a way to learn at first. Affixes and prepositions etc are important for the Arabic language, that is true, but it does not matter if the grammatical rules that you use are wrong. What I meant is that Arabic sentence design is very different from English, for example, and when you read it you "think" in a different way. It becomes a different order. This is essential to remember when you attempt to make a translation.
English is a pro-drop language, and it drops the pronouns way more frequently than Arabic. In fact I feel that Arabic actually keeps pronouns very often to the extent it sounds dull in English if you directly translate it. In this manner Arabic can on the other hand feel more exact and non-misunderstandable, as long as you use the proper grammar rules. By all means it depends on the speaker of the language really. Some people speak it lazily and drop certain words because it is more comfortable. Just watch the transformation of the English language.
Have faith
From MOF; It is a pleasant post to me.
The word order in sentences of English and Arabic has variations but it does not mean that both languages have different types of sentences, either by structure or meaning. First step is to recognize a sentence, its beginning and end since unlike English it has no stop signs. Translation will be in two steps; after morphological parsing and after syntactical parsing . Most of available translations were done only by following first process, thereby, they had blurred or distorted perceptions.
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The lack of punctuation is clearly a big disadvantage for the interpretation. And sometimes passages cut the same context into many fragments so it is confusing to read. It is at least a sign to me that some ignorant person sat down and fragmented the discourse into passages.
Peace
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The lack of punctuation is clearly a big disadvantage for the interpretation. And sometimes passages cut the same context into many fragments so it is confusing to read. It is at least a sign to me that some ignorant person sat down and fragmented the discourse into passages.
Peace
The "puntuation" in Arabic of Qur'aan is the best world over. The only difference is that it does not have separate marks but case endings are the tool for puntuation which leave no room for incorrect interpretation when both morphological and syntactical processes are employed for analysis.
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As long as you know the language, that works well, yes.
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Salaam,
o
Well, so how will you define morphology in and .
Can you please clarify? Thanks.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanBoth are broken plurals; one feminine and the other masculine. The issue was with relation to relative adjective http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif. Rasulun does not have relative adjective.
You can read about Relative adjective in any grammar book.
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Both are broken plurals; one feminine and the other masculine. The issue was with relation to relative adjective http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif. Rasulun does not have relative adjective.
You can read about Relative adjective in any grammar book.
Salaam,
It was not rAsulUn but it was rUsUlAn.
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I don't waste my time to see the invisible through imaginative-hallucination; I see the words of the Book that mirror every reality, visible and invisible because I accept the Book is written in human language.
salaam,
1997
Mazhar translation
Thereby, for reason of its universality and permanence, We have certainly rendered it Grand Qur'aan easy, open and facilitative for reading and comprehension by transcribing it in the mother tongue Arabic language of you Muhammad .The purpose of its facilitative rendering is that you the Messenger might give glad tidings-guarantee on the strength of this Grand Qur'aan to those who endeavor to remain cautious and avoid conduct inspired and governed by emotion in reverence and fear of Allah the Exalted;
And so that you the Messenger may admonish, with this Grand Qur'aan, the excessively argumentative people.
I still believe one needs a very big imagination to come up with these kind of translation. If you think I am wrong, then I have a couple of questions if you do not mind.
I think I have already shown you that the language of the Quran is NOT the language of your school language.
Besides this, does not mean Arabic in The Quran. Your understanding on this is based on some faulty early exegeses.Salaam,
Bender -
salaam,
1997
Mazhar translation
Thereby, for reason of its universality and permanence, We have certainly rendered it Grand Qur'aan easy, open and facilitative for reading and comprehension by transcribing it in the mother tongue Arabic language of you Muhammad .The purpose of its facilitative rendering is that you the Messenger might give glad tidings-guarantee on the strength of this Grand Qur'aan to those who endeavor to remain cautious and avoid conduct inspired and governed by emotion in reverence and fear of Allah the Exalted;
And so that you the Messenger may admonish, with this Grand Qur'aan, the excessively argumentative people.
I still believe one needs a very big imagination to come up with these kind of translation. If you think I am wrong, then I have a couple of questions if you do not mind.
I think I have already shown you that the language of the Quran is NOT the language of your school language.
Besides this, does not mean Arabic in The Quran. Your understanding on this is based on some faulty early exegeses.
Salaam,
BenderStrange; did you not notice what I have been loudly proclaiming on this forum that all the old translations/exegeses are faulty in one respect or the other; and particularly later ones since these are copied from Jewish translator who did translation not for academic purposes but merely playfully--Rodwell.
Do you see any similarity of my translation in any earlier translation?
I still believe one needs a very big imagination to come up with these kind of translation
"Big imagination" might cause what Qur'aan calls "disease within hearts"; only rational behaviour is needed to understand this kind of translation becuase it is based on academic rules and every particle is taken care in transference to target language.
I think I have already shown you that the language of the Quran is NOT the language of your school language.
It is but childish. I said Qur'aan is in the language of peoples, it is living language of millions and millions of people. What makes it difficult for you to digest that Qur'aan is written in Arabic language and language is always governed by rules, and these rules can be studied in school.
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Strange; did you not notice what I have been loudly proclaiming on this forum that all the old translations/exegeses are faulty in one respect or the other; and particularly later ones since these are copied from Jewish translator who did translation not for academic purposes but merely playfully--Rodwell.
Do you see any similarity of my translation in any earlier translation?
Salaam,
No I do not see any similarity, your translation is from a differrent level.
"Big imagination" might cause what Qur'aan calls "disease within hearts"; only rational behaviour is needed to understand this kind of translation becuase it is based on academic rules and every particle is taken care in transference to target language.
Do people who have a disease in their hearts know they have a disease in their heart or do they think they are acting rational?
It is but childish. I said Qur'aan is in the language of peoples, it is living language of millions and millions of people. What makes it difficult for you to digest that Qur'aan is written in Arabic language and language is always governed by rules, and these rules can be studied in school.
Yes you say a lot, it does only not mean that what you say is also true.
Salaam,
Bender -
وَإِنَّ لَكُمْ فِي الْأَنْعَامِ لَعِبْرَةً نُّسْقِيكُم مِّمَّا فِي بُطُونِهِ مِن بَيْنِ فَرْثٍ وَدَمٍ لَّبَنًا خَالِصًا سَآئِغًا لِّلشَّارِبِينَ
وَإِنَّ لَكُمْ فِي الْأَنْعَامِ لَعِبْرَةً نُّسقِيكُم مِّمَّا فِي بُطُونِهَا وَلَكُمْ فِيهَا مَنَافِعُ كَثِيرَةٌ وَمِنْهَا تَأْكُلُونَ
All translators religiously following the traditional exegeses relate the masculine singular pronoun and feminine pronoun to feminine plural noun occuring in exactly identical first sentences in both Ayahs.
I could not find any rule in Arabic grammar to agree with all of them. Can you reconcile?
Maybe these pronouns are not related to el-en'aam, but to maa' (masculine) in 1665 and šejeret (feminine) in 2320. If you look you'll see that 1666 finishes with li-l-šaaribeen (for the drinkers) and 2321 finishes with we min-haa te'kuloon (and from it they are eating), and 2320 with li-l-aakileen (for the eaters). Word buToon is not necessarily "bellies". I haven't study these enough, it's just my thought on this "issue".
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Maybe these pronouns are not related to el-en'aam, but to maa' (masculine) in 1665 and šejeret (feminine) in 2320. If you look you'll see that 1666 finishes with li-l-šaaribeen (for the drinkers) and 2321 finishes with we min-haa te'kuloon (and from it they are eating), and 2320 with li-l-aakileen (for the eaters). Word buToon is not necessarily "bellies". I haven't study these enough, it's just my thought on this "issue".
Thanks for bringing this old threads into spotlight... For me, i am stuck.. these are serious issues to be comprehensively addressed ... whatever you have written don't give any sense to be honest..
Salam everyone...
in Arabic when a sentence ends as (HI) it should be singular (masculine) only or can be used for plural (more than two) according to accepted grammar ... I found all to be singular and masculine..Same in Arabic HA .. is singular (feminine) or plural (more than two)...
So i don't understand why it said THEIR belies for ButuniHI and THEIR Belies for ButuniHA...
why not ButuniHIM or ButuniHUNNA..
I think there is a special pattern in Quran where what Author has in mind is not reflected in words..Unless we perceive it..
I am researching them... if i come across with a positive and comprehensive consequences, i would in sha allah share with you, if not i will keep quiet.. Coz God knows best..
thank youSorry i missed to explain two concerned verses
6612 "And Maryam, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity, so We blew into her through Our angel, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient."
2191 "And the one who guarded her chastity, so We blew into her through Our angel, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds."
the above two verses for me the Author has intended against what we presume to be... one is to the womb/belly God refers and the other God refers to HER (Maryam) but literally God has done what He has done i.e. through which what God did Maryam got pregnant..
FeeHI here is meant to Bely of Maryam ...
FeeHA here is meant to Maryam herself..That's my take for these two complicated verses.. i will let you know about others verses..
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Maybe buToon means "latency" or something similar, and it can mean that water (maa' is not in its normal state, but its state is latent (in milk). Thus buTooni-hi could mean the latent state of water. Similar could be for šejer.
If this is the case, maybe it can explain why the pork is forbidden, and it could (possibly) be due to pigs eat everything and these things they ate are latent in their meat.
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I found the following answer on the net. I am posting it for the benefit for others. I found it very useful.
"What you're describing Is a actually called "اسم الجنس الجمعى" (Collective Generic Noun), not "اسم الجمع" (Collective Noun), so, what's the difference ?
A collective noun is a word that describes a plural that doesn't have a singular variation, for example, the word "نساء" means "women", you can't get a singular variation from this word, for a singular woman we use the word "امرأة" which is a completely different word, so the word "نساء" actually have no singular, same with "إبل" "camels", again, no singular form, a singular camel is "جمل".
The Collective Generic Noun (CGN) is a word that describes a plural, which gets its singular variation by adding the letter "ة" at the end of it, like the examples you gave "تين - تينة" "سمك-سمكة" and so on.
So now, what's the difference between a CGN and a normal plural ?
Generic nouns don't describe multiple objects, they describe the "kind" of object, for example
سمكة - singular - a fish
سمكات \ أسماك - plural - fishes (multiple)
سمك - CGN - fish (in general)
So the CGN is used when you mean the kind of thing, "I like fish أحب السمك" , but the normal plural is used when you mean a certain number or amount of the thing "I ate 4 fishes أكلت 4 سمكات", you can't describe a CGN with a numerical value ( unless you use a preposition like I ate 4 OF the fish أكلت 4 من السمك ) .
So, to recap with another example "ورق" (CGN) means paper (in general), if I say "ورقات or أوراق" (normal plural) I mean (sheets of paper), the singular is (CGN+ ة ) = ورقة (a sheet of paper).
And finally, another difference between the two is that
All (non-human) plurals take singular feminine pronouns (exهذه سمكات)
All CGNs take singular masculine pronouns (exهذا سمك)" -
Perhaps best to peruse older texts if available and check for consistency in transcription.
peace
specific in general to interior (belly) of people
410 ان indeed الذىن the ones ىاكلون eating امول wealth الىتمى the orphans ظلما wrong of (injustice) انما solely ىاكلون eating فى in بطونهم buṭūnihim/interior (belly) theirs (pl.) نارا fire of وسىصلون and shall burning سعىرا blaze ofeven more specific to interior (belly) milk producing organs of cattle
1666 وان and indeed لكم for you فى in الانعم the cattle لعبره surely lesson نسقىكم we give drink you (pl.) مما from what فى in بطونه buṭūnihi/interior (belly) its (m) من from بىن between فرث bowels ودم and blood لبنا milk of خالصا pure of ساىغا pleasant of للشربىن to the drinkersspecific in general to interior (belly) of bees
1669 ثم furthermore كلى eat من of كل each الثمرت the fruits فاسلكى so follows سبل paths ربك lord your ذللا smooth of ىخرج evicted من from بطونها buṭūnihā/interior (belly) theirs (f) شرب drink مختلف diverse الانه the colors/qualities its فىه in it شفا cure of للناس for the people ان indeed فى in ذلك such لاىه surely sign لقوم for folk ىتفكرون reflectingspecific in general to interior belly of cattle
2321 وان and indeed لكم for you فى in الانعم the cattle لعبره surely lesson نسقىكم we give drink you مما from what فى in بطونها buṭūnihā/interior (belly) theirs (f) ولكم and for you فىها therein منفع benefit كثىره many its ومنها and from them (f) تاكلون thou eatingBritish Library’s oldest Qur’an manuscript Or.2165, dating (701 to 800 CE)
https//i.postimg.cc/815Q997M/ch16v65-75.jpg
Birmingham Qur'an 568-645 CE
https//i.postimg.cc/fWZfVnnr/ch23v12-27.jpg
https//corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/23/verse/21/manuscripts