Are todays so called muslims really the muslims in Quran ?
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Salaam mz ,
Brother kyle isn't questioning their position in the afterlife. The question is whether the term 'muslim' applies to them. Secondly, many idolaters believe in God, the last day and do good work... do you think they fall in the same category as 262?
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Salaams Zenje,
Some of them may be idolaters - i think we are not in any position to finger them,but just say what Allah in his infinite wisdom has said and except it wholeheartedly.
Inna allatheena amanoo waallatheenahadoo waalnnasara waalssabi-eenaman amana biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiriwaAAamila salihan falahum ajruhum AAinda rabbihimwala khawfun AAalayhim wala hum yahzanoona
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- ANY WHO believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.Salaams.
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Peace be upon you,
(2256) No compulsion in the system, the correct/right had been clarified , from the misguidance, so who has denounced evil and has faith in The God, so he had held fast/clung to with the tie/handle , the tight/affirmed, no breaking/cutting to it, and The God (is) hearing/listening, knowledgeable.
Truth stands out clear from error. Therfore Ibrahim was able to witness the manifest behavior of his father and say
(674) And when Abraham said to his father, Azar "Do you take idols (as) gods? Surely I see you, and your nation in evident misguidance."
And therefore,
(9114) ...so when (it) was clarified/explained to him, that he (his father is) an enemy to The God, he declared innocence from him, that Abraham (is a) clement, forebearing.
I declare my innocence from all the "follower of fathers" who call themselves by the descriptive term "submitter" yet follow gods other than the God, CLEARLY.
I hope that clarifies my position.
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Salaams Zenje,
Some of them may be idolaters - i think we are not in any position to finger them,but just say what Allah in his infinite wisdom has said and except it wholeheartedly.
Inna allatheena amanoo waallatheenahadoo waalnnasara waalssabi-eenaman amana biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiriwaAAamila salihan falahum ajruhum AAinda rabbihimwala khawfun AAalayhim wala hum yahzanoona
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- ANY WHO believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.Salaams.
this is a classical example of interpretation of the verses of the book in isolation from other verses of the book....
to believe in the god and do good or reforming deeds INCLUDES not to commit idolatry in the "quranic" world view....
best wishes, Zlatan
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peace to all,
so lot of the articles in FM addressing so called sunni countries as muslims aint correct right ??? No matter how many times they call themselves muslim but that aint correct I guess. They are sunni...I mean muslim to sunni system.
So should we be defending the Iraqis..? or palastine or any otehr so called muslim countries which has very less tolarance towards freedom of speach and human rights ..?
peace
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Peace be upon you,
so lot of the articles in FM addressing so called sunni countries as muslims aint correct right ???
Thats correct. I have not been to free minds actual site in quite a while, but I am sure most of the articles there are outdated. Once we all came here it seems like the updating slowed on the site.
No matter how many times they call themselves muslim but that aint correct I guess. They are sunni...I mean muslim to sunni system.
That is my position, yes.
So should we be defending the Iraqis..? or palastine or any otehr so called muslim countries which has very less tolarance towards freedom of speach and human rights ..?
We do not defend ANY wickedness, but it has to be looked at individually, not as a group, because there might be one amongst the group who is only hiding thier faith, like Pharoahs wife.
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may be we can talk against all type of oppression..not just whats the west doing to sunnis/shias or so called muslims. So it seems the whole wrold is going thru an illusion.......
everything should be observed from a general point of view without taking sides..
peace
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Peace be upon you,
So it seems the whole wrold is going thru an illusion.......
That agrees with the fact that most people serve other than the God, so they certainly cant see clearly (illusion), until it is too late;
(5022) You had been in negligence/disregard from that, so We removed/uncovered (relieved) from you your cover/concealment, so your eye sight today (is) sharp/iron.
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Salaam, Zein and All,
many idolaters believe in God, the last day and do good work... do you think they fall in the same category as 262
No human being is immune from idolatry, not to mention that there is no vaccine for it too! We are challenged and tested in each and every second of our life/living to confirm our absolute belief in Allah only. We can be a Muslim one moment and an idolater the other. How many times in a day we would say "I", when it is not "I" but Allah? We almost always fall in idolatry and that is when we believe in our strength or abilities or luck and just forget, maybe for a fraction of the second, that it was Allah and Allah only who made that possible .
It is not possible to think of ourselves as Muslims then full stop! It is not that easy. We cannot get that ?Muslim Graduation Certificate? until our last moment above this Earth. Some would graduate with honours such as the Prophets who managed to sustain that faith all through their lives and that is why, imo, they were chosen to be Messengers. Fluctuation is what characterizes the rest human beings. The Arabic word for 'heart' is a word that translates as Fluctuation ! And it truly describes us because we fluctuate from certainty to doubt and back to certainty, and the doubt may very well be in the subconscious, I mean without us fully realizing it. Life, with it's downs, would help remind us of our helplessness and that there is nothing in this whole world that could be here and there and everywhere except Allah.
Taj
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No human being is immune from idolatry, not to mention that there is no vaccine for it too!
I think we're talking about different grades/variations of idolatory. Simple example, is one who believes in God, and Jesus as son of god, and does good, and believes in the last day - fall under the category of 262?
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Salaams Zenje,
could you say how the traditional muslims are even close to the example you have just given?If they arn't then who is better?the traditional muslims or the Nazarines?
Salaam.
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Salaam brother mz,
could you say how the traditional muslims are even close to the example you have just given?
I was trying to get a point across to TAJ, on what she said.If they arn't then who is better?the traditional muslims or the Nazarines?
To me, they're all the same. But who am I? -
Peace be upon you Taj,
How many times in a day we would say "I", when it is not "I" but Allah?
The "I" is Allah He is within us all. He breathes the RUH into us and we become alive.
Regarding idolaters Taj, what do you make of this verse
(9114) ...so when (it) was clarified/explained to him, that he (his father is) an enemy to The God, he declared innocence from him, that Abraham (is a) clement, forebearing.
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Salaam Zein,
Allah does not describe those who believe that Jesus is the son of god as idolaters.
How would you describe them?
I really cannot understand their belief no matter how I try. What really is important here is that Allah does not describe them as idolaters = Mushrikeen, in spite of their belief! As far as I know.
In the Quran, they are described as Ahlu-L-Kitab = people of the Book.
Taj
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Salaam Kyle,
Peace be upon you Taj,
How many times in a day we would say "I", when it is not "I" but Allah?
The "I" is Allah He is within us all. He breathes the RUH into us and we become alive.
Are you saying that we are not responsible for our behavior!? Allah is closer to us than the jugular vein, true, but that does not mean that Allah is talking through us.
Regarding idolaters Taj, what do you make of this verse
(9114) ...so when (it) was clarified/explained to him, that he (his father is) an enemy to The God, he declared innocence from him, that Abraham (is a) clement, forebearing.
What about that Ayah, Kyle?
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Salaam TAJ,
I think you're talking about a different people. And people of the book, I have no problem with. On the other hand, the ones who specifically say that god has a son...
Chapter 19
88. And they said the Almighty has taken a son!
89. You have come with a gross blasphemy.
90. The heavens are about to shatter from it, and the Earth crack open, and the mountains fall and crumble.
91. That they claimed that the Almighty had a son.Chapter 21
25. And We did not send any messenger before you except that We inspired him that ?There is no god but Me, so serve Me.?
26. And they said ?The Almighty has taken a son!? Be He glorified, they are all but honoured servants.
27. They do not speak ahead of Him, and on His command they act.
28. He knows their present and their future, and they cannot intercede unless it is for those whom He is pleased with. And they stand in awe and reverence of Him.
29. And whoever of them says ?I am a god besides Him,? then that person We will punish with Hell. It is such that We punish the wicked.-
The One to whom belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the Earth, and He did not take a son, and He does not have any partner in kingship. And He created everything and measured it precisely.
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O people of the Scripture, do not overstep in your system, nor say about God except the truth. Jesus the son of Mary was no more than God?s messenger and His word which He delivered to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not Say ?Trinity.? Cease, for it is better for you. God is only One god, be He glorified that He should have a son! To Him is all that is in the heavens and what is in the Earth. God is enough as a caretaker.
While I agree, that the description is not specific, that is, christians are idolators, I think it's a little obvious that if one were to say/believe that God has a son... then that person is beliving on more than one god. That to me constitutes idolatory.
Peace.
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Salaam Zein,
While I agree, that the description is not specific, that is, christians are idolators, I think it's a little obvious that if one were to say/believe that God has a son... then that person is beliving on more than one god. That to me constitutes idolatory.
I respect your thinking but I don't see anywhere in the Quran that Ahul-L-Kitab are idolaters. On the contrary, Allah has made the difference clear between Ahul-L-Kitab and the idolaters and that is by mentioning the two as different entities. Take this Ayah as an example
Taj