how caN I RESPOND TO MY DAD in regards to ramadan?
-
I'm still quite undecided on what specifically we are abstaining against. I know the translations says "do no eat and drink until ..." but i'm still unconvinced this means to actually not eat any food or drink (with it being requested in such a hot time of the year in some countries i find it impossible not to drink water without feeling extremely faint and lifeless).
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg323981#msg323981
That thread might be of interest .
peace
-
Peace sushi1992,
I am not sure if the word Sawm is linked/related to "fasting from eating and drinking." It is true that one verse in the Quran states that we should not eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn (in verse 287 in the monotheist translation). The fact that the word Sawm (abstinence) is mentioned in the same verse were we are told to not eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn, does not automatically imply that the word Sawm is related to fasting from eating and drinking. The sentence about eating and drinking until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn, might be a mistranslation of verse 287 in the Quran. Besides, the word Sawm, in verse 2187, seems more related/linked to intimacy than to not eating and drinking. Most of the verse actually seems to talk about the intimate relations between husbands and wives; not eating and drinking.
Quran 2187 (Abstinence is only for the daytime.) It has been made lawful for you to go to your wives on the night of the Abstinence. They are your garments and you are their garments - close to each other, source of mutual comfort, complementing each other, trustworthy and keepers of privacy, reason for dcor, and redressers of faults. God knows that you would have deprived yourselves, feeling guilty, and so He turns to you and pardons you. So, now you may have intimate relations with them and, besides, seek all good that God has ordained for you. You may eat and drink until you can discern the white streak of light against the black streak of night at daybreak. Then complete the Abstinence until sunset. Do not have intimate relations with them while on special assignments in the Centers of the Divine System. These are the bounds set by God - so come not near violating them. Thus God explains His commands to mankind clearly, so that they understand and remain observant.
It is possible that the word Sawm is linked/related to "fasting from eating and drinking." But just like you I am still unconvinced that it means to actually not eat any food or drink.
"So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say, "I have declared a Sawm for the Gracious, and I will not talk today to any of the people."
In the story of Mary, in verse 1926 above, she is allowed to eat and drink while declaring Sawm. If the word Sawm is linked/related to fasting from eating and drinking, then why is Mary allowed to eat and drink and be happy? If the word Sawm has anything to do with not eating and not drinking, then why is mary told to eat and drink and be happy? These are some questions that I have pondered on lately.
The above mentioned verse might even suggest that it is allowed to practice Sawm while eating and drinking. Therefore it seems that the concept of Sawm has nothing to do with "fasting from eating and drinking."
There clearly seems to be something wrong with the traditional understanding of the word Sawm being linked/related to "fasting from eating and drinking." Therefore I want to get to the bottom of this issue. Unfortunately, I am in a race against time these days. My free time is very limited these days. Therefore the little time I have left is highly valuable for me, and I have choosed to prioritize the things which I consider most important right now. But I definitely plan to study the concept of Sawm in dept in the future, if God wills.
-
Peace sushi1992,
I am still not sure if the word Sawm is linked/related to "fasting from eating and drinking". It is true that one verse in the Quran states that we should not eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn (in verse 287 in the monotheist translation). The fact that the word Sawm (abstinence) is mentioned in the same verse were we are told to not eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn, does not automatically imply that the word Sawm is related to fasting from eating and drinking. The sentence about eating and drinking until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn, might be a mistranslation of verse 287 in the Quran. Besides, the word Sawm, in verse 2187, seems more related/linked to intimacy than to not eating and drinking. Most of the verse actually seems to talk about the intimate relations between husbands and wives; not eating and drinking.
Quran 2187 (Abstinence is only for the daytime.) It has been made lawful for you to go to your wives on the night of the Abstinence. They are your garments and you are their garments - close to each other, source of mutual comfort, complementing each other, trustworthy and keepers of privacy, reason for dcor, and redressers of faults. God knows that you would have deprived yourselves, feeling guilty, and so He turns to you and pardons you. So, now you may have intimate relations with them and, besides, seek all good that God has ordained for you. You may eat and drink until you can discern the white streak of light against the black streak of night at daybreak. Then complete the Abstinence until sunset. Do not have intimate relations with them while on special assignments in the Centers of the Divine System. These are the bounds set by God - so come not near violating them. Thus God explains His commands to mankind clearly, so that they understand and remain observant.
It is possible that the word Sawm is linked/related to fasting (not eating food and/or drinking water). But just like you I am still unconvinced that it means to actually not eat any food or drink.
"So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say, "I have declared a Sawm for the Gracious, and I will not talk today to any of the people."
In the story of Mary, in verse 1926 above, she is allowed to eat and drink while declaring Sawm. If the word Sawm is linked/related to fasting from eating and drinking, then why is Mary allowed to eat and drink and be happy? If the word Sawm has anything to do with not eating and not drinking, then why is mary told to eat and drink and be happy? These are some questions that I have pondered on lately.
The above mentioned verse might even suggest that it is allowed to practice Sawm while eating and drinking. Therefore it seems that the concept of Sawm has nothing to do with "fasting from eating and drinking."
There clearly seems to be something wrong with the traditional understanding of the word Sawm being linked/related to "fasting from eating and drinking." Therefore I want to get to the bottom of this issue. Unfortunately, I am in a race against time these days. My free time is very limited these days. Therefore the little time I have left is highly valuable for me, and I have choosed to prioritize the things which I consider most important right now. But I definitely plan to study the concept of Sawm in dept in the future, if God wills.
Peace Taro ),
I read that verse in the quran about Maryam and I think I read a similar verse in regards to abstaining from speech elsewhere as well. Personally, I feel that abstaining from speech is quite challenging but quite rewarding at the same time. I think it helps a being be capable of living with themselves without needing external communication - a bit like a really long meditation session. It would definitely disciple you more..... But I will definitely delve into this when i also have more time - my time is also limited as well.
Though I hope it's limited due to reasons other than health reasons...
peace
-
I'm still quite undecided on what specifically we are abstaining against. I know the translations says "do no eat and drink until ..." but i'm still unconvinced this means to actually not eat any food or drink (with it being requested in such a hot time of the year in some countries i find it impossible not to drink water without feeling extremely faint and lifeless).
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604103.msg323981#msg323981
That thread might be of interest .
peace
Abstaining is our wish, a Good habit that shapes us well, Timing should be accepted one among ourselves, within our family or group(local community) as per the convenience of everyone that takes the Oath.
I think, Quran gives us the range of timing that it can be practiced. ie the day time and the time to start and stop should be as per our convenience within that time.
So why only day?, Yes day time is more comfortable than nights, safe and can get medical aid , support etc. easily.
it highlights that we should not practice it in night or when one is sick, injured or one is in travel. -
Abstaining is our wish, a Good habit that shapes us well, Timing should be accepted one among ourselves, within our family or group(local community) as per the convenience of everyone that takes the Oath.
I think, Quran gives us the range of timing that it can be practiced. ie the day time and the time to start and stop should be as per our convenience within that time.
So why only day?, Yes day time is more comfortable than nights, safe and can get medical aid , support etc. easily.
it highlights that we should not practice it in night or when one is sick, injured or one is in travel.You say the start stop time should be as per our convenience.
"You may eat and drink until you can discern the white streak of light against the black streak of night at daybreak."
It doesn't seem to be a matter of choice when you start and stop.....
-
Peace,
And that command is quite easy to obey if you are around the equator because the sun is up within 30 minutes after the first light is visible anyway. I lived in Iran for over two years. Apart from the short twilight the sky is completely dark at night unless the moon reflects light.
Have faith
-
Peace,
And that command is quite easy to obey if you are around the equator because the sun is up within 30 minutes after the first light is visible anyway. I lived in Iran for over two years. Apart from the short twilight the sky is completely dark at night unless the moon reflects light.
Have faith
Personally I find it hard to fast during hot weather. I've come near to fainting once when I didn't have any water and I thought this is ridiculous so I stopped. I have faith ) I will pursue the idea of fasting being for something other than abstaining from food.
peace
-
Peace sushi1992,
I have fulfilled a traditional Ramadhan twice. And both times in Ramadhan month according to Shia tradition and it has been over 30 degrees Celsius constantly with peaks of 38 so it is possible to fast from drink and food also in hot weather.
The first few days are worst, but after that the body "realizes" it is an emergency and adjusts accordingly by reducing the sense of hunger to allow the survival instincts to focus on hunting for prey. The endurance can hence get a positive feedback. I would still say it can have a detrimental effect to fast a prolonged period even if you eat for a short time in the night because the body keeps itself in an exposed mode and also stores more of the food as fat if it can and there is a risk of muscular breakdown if you are not careful with the diet in the night because the body focuses on sustaining primary functionality due to the self-inflicted famine.
A bodybuilder would need to be super-careful and it is hard to keep the muscles from breaking down during a fasting (I am a bodybuilder) because big muscles require much nutrition and the nutrition digested in the evening and early dawn is stockpiled and are depots depleted the body gnaws on muscles like dogs on their bones.
If nutrition was not already challenging for a bodybuilder it becomes very hard while fasting for a minimum breakdown, for the month will tear on the muscles in the end. But they recover easily though fortunately after some weeks in the gym
And sorry that this was not exactly according to the topic.
-
Peace sushi1992,
I have fulfilled a traditional Ramadhan twice. And both times in Ramadhan month according to Shia tradition and it has been over 30 degrees Celsius constantly with peaks of 38 so it is possible to fast from drink and food also in hot weather.
The first few days are worst, but after that the body "realizes" it is an emergency and adjusts accordingly by reducing the sense of hunger to allow the survival instincts to focus on hunting for prey. The endurance can hence get a positive feedback. I would still say it can have a detrimental effect to fast a prolonged period even if you eat for a short time in the night because the body keeps itself in an exposed mode and also stores more of the food as fat if it can and there is a risk of muscular breakdown if you are not careful with the diet in the night because the body focuses on sustaining primary functionality due to the self-inflicted famine.
A bodybuilder would need to be super-careful and it is hard to keep the muscles from breaking down during a fasting (I am a bodybuilder) because big muscles require much nutrition and the nutrition digested in the evening and early dawn is stockpiled and are depots depleted the body gnaws on muscles like dogs on their bones.
If nutrition was not already challenging for a bodybuilder it becomes very hard while fasting for a minimum breakdown, for the month will tear on the muscles in the end. But they recover easily though fortunately after some weeks in the gym
And sorry that this was not exactly according to the topic.
Peace MoF,
See I do see this as hardship to some degree. I really physically can't do the first few days because my body has a bad reaction. I literally just about get home off the tube from work because I'm knackered due to being so busy - fasting would really top it off.... I don't think I'd get home (( I'd rather feed the poor or abstain from talking. I don't have a partner so I couldn't abstain from sex so really... Not talking and feeding the poor would hve to be the alternative. I have a fast metabolism and I burn food quickly. I'd have to eat at like 1am a lot of food, then go sleep and wake for work and starve the whole day til 7pm? I'm unbearably hungry by 7am even if I ate when I was going bed! Lol... I'll stick with the alternative of feeding others or giving to charity... Its a lot less hardship. It's not even that I eat a lot tbh, I don't eat much. Just not eating at all or even worse, not having any water to hydrate yourself is too detrimental for me
Peace peace
-
You are the best judge. There is just one person you should never cheat yourself. Try to be honest to your best ability and whatever you find is right, to not brood over it do it that way anc oncentrate on it in doing it well, whether it is some partial fast, or feeding somebody else, or both or whatever comes to you as most appropriate. Just keep in mind, that the aim is your purification. Not a self-punishment. Purifying usually entails getting rid of something that impurifies. may be habits, may be whatever distracts you from what you should be concentrating on. But be calm, this is nto a race, it is a loong way and we need our moments of thinking quietly, of rest, of restoring... Take it easy and take sincerely... In sha Allah you will get there.
Salaam
-
You are the best judge. There is just one person you should never cheat yourself. Try to be honest to your best ability and whatever you find is right, to not brood over it do it that way anc oncentrate on it in doing it well, whether it is some partial fast, or feeding somebody else, or both or whatever comes to you as most appropriate. Just keep in mind, that the aim is your purification. Not a self-punishment. Purifying usually entails getting rid of something that impurifies. may be habits, may be whatever distracts you from what you should be concentrating on. But be calm, this is nto a race, it is a loong way and we need our moments of thinking quietly, of rest, of restoring... Take it easy and take sincerely... In sha Allah you will get there.
Salaam
[/quotePeace huruf,
Thank you for your sweet and kind words of advice... I'll repeat them often. I always try to do things as well as possible and hopefully I can keep doing so. I pay some money every month to a charity and I pay quite a bit more to some young kid in El Salvador to help him stay in school and get fed.... I'm on the go all the time and I waste a lot of energy doing one thing or the other (mental tasks drain the energy out of you quicker ( ) and I feel that caring for a child who needs it is a good deed )
peace
-
peace
And that command is quite easy to obey if you are around the equator
Those who live close to the arctic circle are always giving the same excuses of long days. Do you realize that those muslims living close to the equator have to stand days with temperatures of around 110 ?F 43 C or more . It is funny that those who give the most excuses about anything regarding the faith live in the western countries. Why could that be?
Sweden daylight hours July 340am 1002pm=around 18 hour daylight ;July temp= 23 ?C (73 ?F). those living close to the arctic have a very cool Ramadam. I do not see why they complain so much, when it is that cool I even have to remind my self of drinking water.
Here in Texas we have 15 hour daylight and day temperature around 100 F 37C and some days it can go to 110F 43C. And I believe the muslims living in the middle east have it worst. You complain too much to be muslims.
"I have declared a Sawm for the Gracious, and I will not talk today to any of the people." the verse clarifies itself of what Mary is abstaining from.
ALSO
2187....You may eat and drink until you can discern the white streak of light against the black streak of night at daybreak. Then complete the Abstinence until sunset. And do not have intimate relations with them...
the verse clarifies itself of what the abstinence is about=no liquids---no food--and no sex.If you had faith you could stand 40 days and nights straight without drinking and eating, like Moses or Jesus.
RAMADAM is a mater of faith, and only those whose faith is weak look for excuses.
May God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.
-
peace
Those who live close to the arctic circle are always giving the same excuses of long days. Do you realize that those muslims living close to the equator have to stand days with temperatures of around 110 ?F 43 C or more . It is funny that those who give the most excuses about anything regarding the faith live in the western countries. Why could that be?
Sweden daylight hours July 340am 1002pm=around 18 hour daylight ;July temp= 23 ?C (73 ?F). those living close to the arctic have a very cool Ramadam. I do not see why they complain so much, when it is that cool I even have to remind my self of drinking water.
Here in Texas we have 15 hour daylight and day temperature around 100 F 37C and some days it can go to 110F 43C. And I believe the muslims living in the middle east have it worst. You complain too much to be muslims.
"I have declared a Sawm for the Gracious, and I will not talk today to any of the people." the verse clarifies itself of what Mary is abstaining from.
ALSO
2187....You may eat and drink until you can discern the white streak of light against the black streak of night at daybreak. Then complete the Abstinence until sunset. And do not have intimate relations with them...
the verse clarifies itself of what the abstinence is about=no liquids---no food--and no sex.If you had faith you could stand 40 days and nights straight without drinking and eating, like Moses or Jesus.
RAMADAM is a mater of faith, and only those whose faith is weak look for excuses.
May God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.
Mate, don't even give me bullcrap about if you had faith you would do it. I've done it for a few days a couple of years ago and I couldn't do anymore as it was too hot for me. When I was in my home country, it was hitting 30 degrees better the problem is the humidity. Humidity always makes me feel sick and faint. Some people thought the weather was fine (usually people from middle eastern countries) and most looked like they were sweating puddles and finding it hard to stand up. If I had a choice on when to do it and if it wasn't consecutive days, then I'd probably be capable. But YOU can't say that it's easy just cos you have higher tolerance levels. Everyone is different and everyone has different thresholds. Don't come here saying people don't have faith just cos they can't tolerate certain levels of heat and humidity. That's a load of bull.
-
Peace Taro ,
I read that verse in the quran about Maryam and I think I read a similar verse in regards to abstaining from speech elsewhere as well. Personally, I feel that abstaining from speech is quite challenging but quite rewarding at the same time. I think it helps a being be capable of living with themselves without needing external communication - a bit like a really long meditation session. It would definitely disciple you more..... But I will definitely delve into this when i also have more time - my time is also limited as well.
Though I hope it's limited due to reasons other than health reasons...
peace
Peace sushi1992,
You make some good points/observations in your post. I agree with your views. There might be a purpose/wisdom behind why Mary was commanded to abstain from speech. Like you said, abstaining from speech can help someone be living with themselves without needing external communication - a bit like a meditation session. Perhaps this might give a person a unique calmness and deep clarity, so that they can grow in spiritual direction. I believe that there is a purpose/wisdom behind every commandment in the Quran.
-
Bold And may I know the reliable source of this statement...?
Salm.
Peace,
This information is in the Christian Bible. I think the '40' refers to 'many days' though and not a definite 40 days. Both Jesus and Moses in that case were off exactly 40 days which is a strange phenomenon in my opinion.
Also in a literal qualitative sense if you say 40 days and 40 nights it sounds a bit exaggerated. More like "many days and many nights".
The same is for the man in the Qur'an who reaches 40 years and is considered mature, but I think it intends an allegorical 'many years' there or coming to age.
Have faith
-
Peace,
This information is in the Christian Bible. I think the '40' refers to 'many days' though and not a definite 40 days. Both Jesus and Moses in that case were off exactly 40 days which is a strange phenomenon in my opinion.
Also in a literal qualitative sense if you say 40 days and 40 nights it sounds a bit exaggerated. More like "many days and many nights".
The same is for the man in the Qur'an who reaches 40 years and is considered mature, but I think it intends an allegorical 'many years' there or coming to age.
Have faith
Peace,
As far as I'm aware it is an Arabic idiom to say 40 days/nights and mean many days/many nights. It sounds pretty torturous to me....
peace
-
Peace sushi1992,
You make some good points/observations in your post. I agree with your views. There might be a purpose/wisdom behind why Mary was commanded to abstain from speech. Like you said, abstaining from speech can help someone be living with themselves without needing external communication - a bit like a meditation session. Perhaps this might give a person a unique calmness and deep clarity, so that they can grow in spiritual direction. I believe that there is a purpose/wisdom behind every commandment in the Quran.
Definitely. I mean the thing is after fasting in the sense of not eating, many people really stuff themselves after the count. Even more so people actually eat extra big meals at night time to make sure they are not too hungry during the day.
I don't think the same can be done with talking. You can't really get a tonne of speech out of your system just to prepare for a day of no speech. It definitely makes me sense to abstain from speech... It also helps you cope with yourself and be at peace with yourself more.
The traditional Muslims nowadays who fast and then eat crazy amounts of food... Well I just think... What was the point???