5:101
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Yep, and I'm going to use it one day.
I better prepare some extra lives then. ;D
Nah, that emoticon is something denoting a 'what the heck'/'can't believe what I'm reading' type of meaning, the closest correlating emoticon for that on this site would be o, or this wow used sarcastically, even this hypno if one was to stretch it to it's maximum or minimum depending on mood.
Thanks for telling me, sis. I think I need to be careful next time if I decide to use it again. )
Salm.
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Al Bender, I'll try to put it in a clearer way...I was asking if the questions that were being asked ( = if revealed to you would harm you) were going to be answered after/during? (not sure what the consensus is on what the right word is here) the quran has been sent down or the reasoning behind why we shouldn't be asking such questions (= if revealed to you would harm you) be clear after/during the quran has been sent down.
salaam,
A sentence of 72 words, 3 brackets and 2 slashes is a clearer way brickwall
If we knew the questions would harm us, why would we still seek answers unless we were self destructive...?
First of al I think the verse is translated wrong by all translators I read so far.
In my opinion this part " " is 1 sentence. But all the translators I read so far see this part " " also as a sentence or as a sub phrase.
FM translation if you ask about them after the Qur'an has been sent down, then they will become clear to you. God pardons for them,
I think it should be read something like this
if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.It looks almost the same but there is a subtle nuance, I hope you can understand what I mean. I think if you understand this little difference it will help a lot to understand the verse better.
RED Not the questions will harm us but the answers ignore
btw. I believe "harm" is a bit mistranslated. Not harm us but brings is in psychological black state.GREEN No we are not self destructive, we are curious and also proud. This causes us to ask for things we are not yet ready for, thus when we have an answer to our question, the first thing we do is object against the answer even if we can not bring a single argument against it. So we become rejecters.
BUT if we ask them " " then the pardoning of Allah for them will be cleared to us.I left the Arabic part " " untranslated because you will reject my understanding, so do not ask me about it, and be a mumina and a do what is advised to you in 5101 >(
But if we were more aware of the reasons for asking said questions and the possible ramifications we'd understand? Thus, can it be referring to something other than the fact that it's not the questions/questioning but the mindset behind the questions...? So were these questions going to be answered let's just say by the quran, or the reasoning behind why the questions are being left open ended or whatever also by the quran. The fact that we are pardoned for asking them, but then a people before us had asked the same and became rejecters, begs the question whether it was the answers or the line of reasoning behind the inquiries that did them in. If it was the answers, I find it hard to accept that the truth can make one a rejecter, hence must be the line of reasoning/mindset behind the questions. A little knowledge being a dangerous thing also comes to mind.
I hope my answer above answers also these questions.
Salaam,
Bender -
There were no further responses regarding the topic, when there are, I'll discuss them. The present discussion has gone towards zina because of an example used while posting about the topic, I don't see it as a problem since some people are Bender is slower to post than others, various things get talked about in the meanwhile. I personally find it of interest. Do you have anything to add to 'imaginary adultery punishment'...? If not, that's okay.
Salaam,
RED I know you had me in mind >
What a subtle but nasty way to give green light to your off topic discussion and in mean time speak bad about me >Salaam,
Bender -
A sentence of 72 words, 3 brackets and 2 slashes is a clearer way
I forgot you're linguistically challenged by certain languages...or certain people perhaps PI hope my answer above answers also these questions.
Thank YOU. Really. Those are the sort of answers I was hoping to get to my questions. Will go through it, piece some things together I have on my mind and discuss it if I need to.Salaam,
RED I know you had me in mind >(
What a subtle but nasty way to give green light to your off topic discussion and in mean time speak bad about me >(Salaam,
BenderLol, that's right, can't pull a fast one over you, you dance on the edges of cuts. A cutting edge dancer is you.
Salaam,
No not agreed ignore , at least it has to be like this
Zina is a Fahashi, but it does not mean that Fahashi is a Zina.
salaam,
BenderNo need to be pedantic and bend it like Beckham...whoops, did I remind you of the WC loss, my bad. I'd probably say something like zina is a fahishi but not all fahishi is a zina.
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salaam,
First of al I think the verse is translated wrong by all translators I read so far.
In my opinion this part " " is 1 sentence. But all the translators I read so far see this part " " also as a sentence or as a sub phrase.
FM translation if you ask about them after the Qur'an has been sent down, then they will become clear to you. God pardons for them,
I think it should be read something like this
if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.It looks almost the same but there is a subtle nuance, I hope you can understand what I mean. I think if you understand this little difference it will help a lot to understand the verse better.
RED Not the questions will harm us but the answers ignore
btw. I believe "harm" is a bit mistranslated. Not harm us but brings is in psychological black state.GREEN No we are not self destructive, we are curious and also proud. This causes us to ask for things we are not yet ready for, thus when we have an answer to our question, the first thing we do is object against the answer even if we can not bring a single argument against it. So we become rejecters.
BUT if we ask them " " then the pardoning of Allah for them will be cleared to us.I left the Arabic part " " untranslated because you will reject my understanding, so do not ask me about it, and be a mumina and a do what is advised to you in 5101 >(
I hope my answer above answers also these questions.
Salaam,
BenderThe passive verb indicates ongoing act, not finished act.
It is a separate verbal sentence, a past tense verb does not link to jussive mood imperfect verbs and neither there is conjunct waw in between.
The issue is about feminine plural noun, regarding certain things, matters, issues, substances. Verbs are also feminine, thereby.
O those/you who proclaim to have accepted-become believers, listen;
You should not ask seeking answers about such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people
Take note, if you ask about such matters during the ongoing intermittent revelation of Qur'aan, it would be disclosed for you. Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters.
Be cognizant, Allah the Exalted is eternally imperturbably over looking-forgiver -
I forgot you're linguistically challenged by certain languages...or certain people perhaps
Salaam,
By certain people who use certain languages.
Thank YOU. Really. Those are the sort of answers I was hoping to get to my questions. Will go through it, piece some things together I have on my mind and discuss it if I need to.
red Thx!!
green handshake looking forward to read sentences with at least 72 words and a lot of brackets and slashes eatLol, that's right, can't pull a fast one over you, you dance on the edges of cuts. A cutting edge dancer is you.
yes I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what my eyes can't see.
No need to be pedantic and bend it like Beckham...whoops, did I remind you of the WC loss, my bad. I'd probably say something like zina is a fahishi but not all fahishi is a zina.
Red did you see it? If so, do you recommend it? Is it a Bollywood movie which plays in England or a British movie with some punjabi's?
Salaam,
Bender -
The passive verb indicates ongoing act, not finished act.
Salaam,
thank you! I will take your commend in my research how to understand ""
It is a separate verbal sentence, a past tense verb does not link to jussive mood imperfect verbs and neither there is conjunct waw in between.
I do not agree with this.
In the Arabic text there is no pause there. And making it a new sentence does not make sense to me.
What does " " mean? Well I know you translated it as " Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters "
But I mean what has it to do with the rest of the ayaat? What has questioning and getting answers to do with the fact that Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters ?
If you have a reasonable explanation then I will for sure ponder about it.The issue is about feminine plural noun, regarding certain things, matters, issues, substances. Verbs are also feminine, thereby.
O those/you who proclaim to have accepted-become believers, listen;
You should not ask seeking answers about such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people
Take note, if you ask about such matters during the ongoing intermittent revelation of Qur'aan, it would be disclosed for you. Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters.
Be cognizant, Allah the Exalted is eternally imperturbably over looking-forgiverI think the issue is " "
But I think what makes this verse difficult is how to fit in the context of the verse, thus how to understand in the context of the verse. At least that looks to me the most difficult part.
The other difficult part and I think wrongfully misunderstood by most (if not all of us) is, how to understand " "
Salaam,
bender -
Salaam,
thank you! I will take your commend in my research how to understand ""
I do not agree with this.
In the Arabic text there is no pause there. And making it a new sentence does not make sense to me.
What does " " mean? Well I know you translated it as " Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters "
But I mean what has it to do with the rest of the ayaat? What has questioning and getting answers to do with the fact that Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters ?
If you have a reasonable explanation then I will for sure ponder about it.I think the issue is " "
But I think what makes this verse difficult is how to fit in the context of the verse, thus how to understand in the context of the verse. At least that looks to me the most difficult part.
The other difficult part and I think wrongfully misunderstood by most (if not all of us) is, how to understand " "
Salaam,
benderSalam,
It is like dependant clause of sentence in English grammar. is a time adverb and when used with a construct - like possessive phrase, it denotes "while". ---while the Qur'aan is being revealed intermittently.
Regarding pause, it is naturally present because of the pause by silent radical - without vowel on its preceding word . It is a complete verbal sentence, not a phrase or dependant clause; having verb, subject and a prespositional phrase relating to verb. The object pronoun of preposition refers to . Thus it is evident that this informative sentence is related to the point at issue
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Salam,
It is like dependant clause of sentence in English grammar. is a time adverb and when used with a construct - like possessive phrase, it denotes "while". ---while the Qur'aan is being revealed intermittently.
Salaam,
RED what possessive phrase are you talking about?
GREEN I just did a little bit of research and I do not agree with the "while" understanding.
from this verse and others
3942
I understand now that " " means something like at the moment. Not "after" and also not "while".Regarding pause, it is naturally present because of the pause by silent radical - without vowel on its preceding word . It is a complete verbal sentence, not a phrase or dependant clause; having verb, subject and a prespositional phrase relating to verb. The object pronoun of preposition refers to . Thus it is evident that this informative sentence is related to the point at issue
RED Then why did you not make " " in " " also a complete sentence?
GREEN but what exactly has "Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters." to do with us (for you the people at the time Mohammed lived)?
Thus what is the relation between Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters." vs " such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people "?Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
RED what possessive phrase are you talking about?
GREEN I just did a little bit of research and I do not agree with the "while" understanding.
from this verse and others
3942
I understand now that " " means something like at the moment. Not "after" and also not "while".Salaam,
BenderSalam,
Do you find any difference
at the moment
While at or during same time
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Salaam,
RED Then why did you not make " " in " " also a complete sentence?
GREEN but what exactly has "Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters." to do with us (for you the people at the time Mohammed lived)?
Thus what is the relation between Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters." vs " such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people "?Salaam,
BenderWho said is not a complete sentence? It is a complete verbal sentence as apodosis clause to the condition. It is verbal sentence, Verb + Subject + Object.
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Who said is not a complete sentence? It is a complete verbal sentence as apodosis clause to the condition. It is verbal sentence, Verb + Subject + Object.
Salaam,
Mazhar said so in his translation.
"...which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people"imo the same way " " is related to what it's referring to, the same way has " " to be related to what it's referring to.
Just a question, did you understand my post to Savage?
Salam,
Do you find any difference
at the moment
While at or during same time
yes I think there is a big difference.
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
you mean you do not know the difference between "at the moment" and "while" ?
Salaam,
Bender"At the moment" is not relevant to the structure of the sentence in Ayah.
English grammar lessons
While / As = During that Time
'While' and 'as' are used to describe actions that occur at the same moment that something is in progress. 'While' and 'as' are sometimes confused with the preposition 'during'. Both express the same idea, however, the structures are different. 'While' and 'as' are time expressions and take a subject and verb. 'During' is a preposition and is used with a noun or noun phrase.
Future Use 'while' or 'as' to state something that occurs at the same moment that something else - the main focus of the sentence - important will occur.The action in progress mentioned in the Ayah was the revelation of Qur'aan.
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yes I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what my eyes can't see.
Um, think you may have meant your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see lol but I'll take your version over mine any day!Red did you see it? If so, do you recommend it? Is it a Bollywood movie which plays in England or a British movie with some punjabi's?
British movie with some punjabi's lol. The lead is total eye candy, so hell yes I'd recommend it.I'm kinda lost as to the discussion at the moment, I usually need a translator for Mazhar bhai, but I'll make a stabby attempt to understand what's going on.
Bender said I think it should be read something like this if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.
Mazhar disagreed with it and contested the one fell swoop aspect.
Bender said I understand now that " " means something like at the moment. Not "after" and also not "while".
Mazhar thinks same difference.
Bender says no, there is a difference.
Mazhar says no way.I think I may just have gotten the gist of it...maybe.
imo the same way " " is related to what it's referring to, the same way has " " to be related to what it's referring to.
i would tend to agree...I think. -
"At the moment" is not relevant to the structure of the sentence in Ayah.
English grammar lessons
While / As = During that Time
'While' and 'as' are used to describe actions that occur at the same moment that something is in progress. 'While' and 'as' are sometimes confused with the preposition 'during'. Both express the same idea, however, the structures are different. 'While' and 'as' are time expressions and take a subject and verb. 'During' is a preposition and is used with a noun or noun phrase.
Future Use 'while' or 'as' to state something that occurs at the same moment that something else - the main focus of the sentence - important will occur.The action in progress mentioned in the Ayah was the revelation of Qur'aan.
Salaam,
I am not sure if I understood exactly what you meant, maybe we mean the same but with different words.
For me "At the moment it rains" (=1) and "While it rains" (=2) are different expressions with a clear difference.
The starting point of action of 1 begins exactly at the same time the first raindrop falls.
The starting point of action of 2 can begin at every moment, not necessary at the first drop.
The second difference is that in 1 the rain can stop BUT it's not necessary that the action that started at the moment it began to rain also stops.
BUT for 2, the action can never occur outside the rain period.Anyway this is how I understand the differene between "While" and "At the moment" but maybe I am confusing "While" with "During".
Savage please help me out here, you are the language purist here.salaam,
Bender -
Um, think you may have meant your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see lol but I'll take your version over mine any day!
Salaam,
RED that's the original quote but I did not understand it. Seriously it did not make any sense to me if we take literally what it says, but maybe it's an expression I do not know. I think my version makes more sense.
British movie with some punjabi's lol. The lead is total eye candy, so hell yes I'd recommend it.
the lead is male or female?
and is it a girls movie or also ok for muscle males like me?I'm kinda lost as to the discussion at the moment, I usually need a translator for Mazhar bhai, but I'll make a stabby attempt to understand what's going on.
Bender said I think it should be read something like this if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.
Mazhar disagreed with it and contested the one fell swoop aspect.
Bender said I understand now that " " means something like at the moment. Not "after" and also not "while".
Mazhar thinks same difference.
Bender says no, there is a difference.
Mazhar says no way.I think I may just have gotten the gist of it...maybe.
lol, nice summary.
i would tend to agree...I think.
good!!! Agree till you find something to falsify it or till you find something better.
Salaam,
Bender -
RED that's the original quote but I did not understand it. Seriously it did not make any sense to me if we take literally what it says, but maybe it's an expression I do not know. I think my version makes more sense.
I'll try to explain, if someone says "your hands can't hit what my eyes can't see"...it's like you can't see what you're doing and thus they can't hit. If you say "your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see"...it's like the other party can't hit what they can't see. The latter is correct for the motivations of that quote and I suppose generally as well. Your version would mean that because you can't see, they won't be able to hit, which maketh no senseth unless you've got some special psychic powers that can cause the other party to unsee what you cannot see. Or because you're so fast you can't see what you're doing and believe the other party thus won't be able to as well...which has an inherent flaw in it mainly that of you don't know what the other party can see or not.the lead is male or female?
and is it a girls movie or also ok for muscle males like me?
Two leads, was talking about the male P...we saw it in the cinema with a group of guys and girls when it came out, everyone liked it. Some stuff in it is more relevant to second generation desis, but overall it was a fun movie.I am not sure if I understood exactly what you meant, maybe we mean the same but with different words.
For me "At the moment it rains" (=1) and "While it rains" (=2) are different expressions with a clear difference.
The starting point of action of 1 begins exactly at the same time the first raindrop falls.
The starting point of action of 2 can begin at every moment, not necessary at the first drop.
The second difference is that in 1 the rain can stop BUT it's not necessary that the action that started at the moment it began to rain also stops.
BUT for 2, the action can never occur outside the rain period.Anyway this is how I understand the differene between "While" and "At the moment" but maybe I am confusing "While" with "During".
Savage please help me out here, you are the language purist here.
Hey, not a language purist by any stretch lol...While carries a meaning of during but used in a different way, that of two things happening at the same time e.g. While this conversation is taking place, I'm going to get myself a coke vs there can be no breaks during this conversation. At the moment carries a meaning of it being time based confined to the context of whatever that is I find this conversation very confusing at the moment.Here we have two languages, english and arabic if I may be allowed a capt obvious moment. The arabic word to word says "if you ask about it when is being revealed the quran it would be made clear to you"... off the top, it could fit while, it could fit during, but at the moment would be a tad more difficult for us to understand because we think it is an ongoing process of something else during which or while it's happening is when you can ask about it. This ongoing process of the revelation is what throws us off in a way. I mean we could say you can ask about it while it is raining. During the rain, you can ask about it. At the moment it rains you can ask about it...would mean we can start asking as soon as the first raindrop falls. In your view, we can start asking about it from that point onwards since we have permission to with no end date mentioned or inherent. I actually find that very interesting because the other ways we could take it would mean the window has closed. Unless of course we take the meaning of the revelation being a continuous process.