What is the Qur'ans stance on homosexuality?
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Just to reiterate again I am requesting evidence to suggest that homosexuality is a personal choice.
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I am fully aware that homosexuality involves a desire, as does heterosexuality. This desire, however, is not our personal choice, so how can we be held accountable for what we cannot control?
Of course we can control our desires.... at least I think most of normal people can control their desires.
Whether you cannot control your own desires?
Salm.
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Of course we can control our desires.... at least I think most of normal people can control their desires.
Whether you cannot control your own desires?
Salm.
How do you define normal? It seems you are dehumanizing homosexuals in this comment, unless I am interpreting incorrectly. It is the dehumanization and the dismissive attitude that upsets me most. "Their biology is different from the majority, so they must be abnormal." Should we say the same thing about people who are left-handed?
Wasalaam.
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Of course we can control our desires.... at least I think most of normal people can control their desires.
Whether you cannot control your own desires?
Salm.
Sorry to add another post, I wanted to say something more. The issue with Charles Whitman was a physical anomaly in his brain. As for homosexuality? Well, I found something interesting here
"Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.
The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.
The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden."
Will we dehumanize our brothers and sisters for their biology, especially when their sexual orientation doesn't pose any more of a threat to others than our own? Are we considering their biology a sin and saying that they are not permitted to have sexual relationships?
I can understand that homosexual acts are not in accordance with reproduction, for example. I am interested in the psychological components, and how we religious folk treat homosexuals so terribly. I wonder how difficult it must be to be born a gay/lesbian in a muslim household, or a christian household, or a jewish household, where not only are family members unaccepting of their natural biology, but they are taught that even their God is unaccepting of their natural biology.
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How do you define normal?
Human is not perfect, but I suppose everyone who can still use his/her brain (and most of organs and most of body parts) is normal.
InshaAllah, I am normal, I feel quite normal at least.
Do you think you're normal?
If you feel that you're normal, do you able to control your desires, then?
Also, did you read the example of Charles Whitman?
Does everyone have the similar tumor as him?
Salm.
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Human is not perfect, but I suppose everyone who can still use his/her brain (and most of organs and most of body parts) is normal.
InshaAllah, I am normal, I feel quite normal at least.
Do you think you're normal?
If you feel that you're normal, do you able to control your desires, then?
Does everyone have the similar tumor as him?
Salm.
Please reread my replies as I made some modifications to them.
I think you are asking the wrong questions. I am not making a case for whether or not I am normal, I am seeking operational definitions for the constructs we are discussing here.
Do you consider homosexuals as "abnormal?" Based on what you said, homosexuals are also normal. Why should they be prevented from acting upon normal desires? We should be specific now there is lewdness that can be committed by homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. What we should analyze is what can be classified as "lewdness?" I think we would both agree that adultery falls under the category of lewdness. What else? Sexual relations with a member of the same sex I believe you would consider "lewdness." But why, other than something like "it's not part of God's design." What are some rationalities behind considering sexual relations with a member of the same sex lewd?
I want to put some attention on the following verse
2928 And Lot, when he said to his people "You commit a lewdness that no others in the world have done before!"
This verse suggests that the lewdness committed by the people of Lot had never been committed by a people before. There is evidence of homosexuality, however, existing before the people of Lot. So what can we gather from this verse? Was there something more than just homosexuality at play here?
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By the way JavaLatte, I apologize for making edits to my posts. I also don't intend to come off as hostile or antagonistic; it's difficult to express a proper "tone" in just words for me. I am sincerely just looking for answers on a topic that has frustrated me for quite some time, and I am most grateful for your replies and your insights.
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Will we dehumanize our brothers and sisters for their biology, especially when their sexual orientation doesn't pose any more of a threat to others than our own?
Perhaps it is you who dehumanize them if you think that they cannot control their desires.
Are we considering their biology a sin
confused
and saying that they are not permitted to have sexual relationships?
I believe that my Lord does not favor it (sex between humans of the same gender), period.
Do you want to take my right to express my own belief?
Do you think I will go around to curse gay people? nope
I suppose you can believe in what you want, brother.
What I don't understand is, why people like you seem so eager to find arguments from the Qur'an to support homosexuality?
Why? What for?
Do you feel relief if Qur'an does not forbid homosexuality?
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Perhaps it is you who dehumanize them if you think that they cannot control their desires.
I said they cannot control which desires they have, I never implied that they cannot control their behavior in relation to their desires. To put it simply, "they" cannot control what "their" desires are, but "they" can control their actions to the similar degree that "we" can. You are putting words in my mouth. I am illustrating the point that their desires are, based on what I know so far, not lewd. I cannot categorize all homosexual acts as lewd the same way I cannot categorize all heterosexual acts as lewd.
I just believe that my Lord does not favor it, period.
Do you want to take my right to express my own belief?
Do you think I will go around to curse gay people? nope
I suppose you can believe in what you want, brother.
What I don't understand is, why people like you seem so eager to find arguments from the Qur'an to support homosexuality?
Why? What for?
Do you feel relief if Qur'an does not forbid homosexuality?
Did I take your right away to express your own belief? I started this topic seeking scientific arguments regarding homosexuality, not opinions. I don't want to keep you from expressing your beliefs, but opinions are not the subject of this thread. The rest of your questions are just putting words in my mouth.
Why are you being so dismissive towards me and "people like me?" I have no agenda other than finding truth, and if I find a discrepancy between logic, reasoning, and justice and the system I adhere to, then I will have to reassess my positions. I don't want to have a closed mind and I want to continue researching the truth.
Do you think it's right how so many religious people tend to treat homosexuals? We may outwardly say with insincere words that we don't care how they live, or we don't think they are "bad," etc., but in our hearts we believe they are vile. Every religious person I speak to with respect to homosexuality always writes "them" off as if they are not human beings.
I feel relief if I know the system I adhere to respects human beings in a just manner. I feel relief if I know the book I have put my trust in is beneficent towards those who are born in a way they cannot help, especially when they aren't hurting anyone else by their biological nature.
You don't understand why I want to find arguments supporting homosexuality. It isn't that I'm particularly looking for arguments supporting it; I don't really care for homosexuality itself. I simply care about my fellow human beings, whether they are small or large in number. The dismissive attitude towards them makes me quite sad.
If you want some simple statement I wonder how terrible it must feel to be created by Allah the way you are and then told that your nature is sinful.
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Also, I still hope to get a reply regarding the following
I want to put some attention on the following verse
2928 And Lot, when he said to his people "You commit a lewdness that no others in the world have done before!"
This verse suggests that the lewdness committed by the people of Lot had never been committed by a people before. There is evidence of homosexuality, however, existing before the people of Lot. So what can we gather from this verse? Was there something more than just homosexuality at play here?
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@ bilalqureshi21
Check your PM. Salm.
Walaykum assalam, dear sister. For anyone else reading this thread, forgive me for my seemingly hostile mannerisms. I have difficulty expressing a soft tone of humility when I write my thoughts on paper, or in this case, on a screen. Therefore, a lot of my words can be read in rather aggressive manners, and I don't intend that at all. It is a fault of my vernacular which I hope to address as soon as possible.
The reason I am interested in the question of homosexuality transcends the isolated case of sexual attraction. Rather, I am interested in the psychological implications of being dismissed as a creature whose sexual desires are considered holistically vile. I can't for the life of me connect homosexuality to any issue of morality. I do think there are acts of homosexuality which can be classified as lewd, the same way I can see acts of heterosexuality as lewd. The point is, I don't think homosexuality itself is lewd or wrong, and I don't think homosexual behaviors done in private, safely and conservatively with consent are morally wrong.
So this leads me to another question what exactly is so wrong about homosexuality that has made its application so forbidden? Is it just homosexuality that the people of Lot were guilty of, or was there something more? What was this lewdness of theirs such that no people had committed before them? (There is evidence showing that homosexuality has existed long, long before the people of Lot.)
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May harmony be with you,
Unless you are a homosexual yourself and very aware of yourself it is difficult to say how this is an innate condition or if it is a personal "delusion". No one in their right mind would choose to be a homosexual, so we must consider that it is at least a helpless condition. It seems like it is a case that cannot be treated.
I think however; that there are many people who claim bisexuality while they only fall victim to their own desires. If they are bisexual they have a choice, and the design is that there is supposed to be a male and female and together they are as one body. That is the anatomical design. In ways I can understand people who commit homosexual acts, but God forbid me from even venturing into that abomination.
Other than this; homosexuality is not a part of the statutory commandments from God. It does not say that it is right, but it does cause neither oppression nor injustice on its own. But it does not require a very intelligent brain to realize that things were not created so that men are with men or women with women. It is not exactly that it is something important to write about in the scriptures and it is barely mentioned in the past. It is against how things are created, but it causes nothing but a personal loss.
It was mentioned in the narration with Lot, but the people of his wanted to forcefully have sex with his guests and not merely indulge in their own practices. And it is understated that they also practiced highway robbery and all other sorts of wrongdoings. Also if you read the narrations of the Bible you get the impression that it was more than only sex that is involved in the destruction of Gomorrah and Sodom. They likely served gods that "told" them to do this and that. Lot was there to proclaim the message as commanded by The Master, but it seems he did have no success there at all and God destroyed literally everything except Lot and his children who ran in the early dawn towards cover. Even Lot's wife was killed.
I started this topic seeking scientific arguments regarding homosexuality, not opinions.
So far there are no scientific results regarding this topic, but also it is a politically and emotionally charged topic so I think research is limited. And if research is undertaken it can often be politically motivated by people who seek to find a cause and is undertaken reluctantly to find a biased explanation. The issue is likely hidden in the thinking that is going on in the persons, but so far we cannot read minds. We can not understand mental illnesses but only see what kind of activity that occurs in the brain fluids and electric impulses while the symptoms are active. Science got quite many hurdles to get past before they can explain homosexuality.
It is however quite common by observing nature to see homosexual acts being done by animals. They have less choices in what they do, but they also display prevalent instincts.
And a person who goes against too much of his innate instincts also suffers from this, unless The Master helps him/her control this. The homosexual drive seems to be instinctive. But it cannot be proven as it is right now, no.
The only thing you and these people can be informed about is that it is not the natural design and that if it can be helped they should simply not do it. Problem is these "Pride" festivals and the glamorization of bi-homosexuality and trans sexism, as in to make it a normalized thing. It grows forth because other people have problems with these people and it causes a bad trend. It should not become a normalized scenario.
But sex from right to left is also normalized today and a lot of other abominations in God's "eyes", so that homosexuality also gets trendy is nothing strange, but it is far from good.
I worry. But surely they will have their "reward".
Be whole
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peace,
After studying some developmental psychology and reading papers on homosexuality, I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not, by any means, a personal choice. Based on current scientific literature, it is not even linked to upbringing. There has long been established a hereditary link; the current progress is discovering a causal link by means of epigenetics.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the above, but there have been many studies on genetically identical twins in journals, wherein one is straight and one is gay, and the conclusion has consistently been that one is not born gay. In other words, it is a combination of nature and nurture.
In any case
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-homosexuality.htm -
It ought to be a mental disorder then. But the question is how identical genetic twins are and if there can be some developmental flaws.
Peace
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Peace Bilalqureishi.
You have stated many verses from Qoran in your first post. What do you think they mean?
Do we trust GOD to know everything about us. Can we accept His knowledge as the truth?
If GOD made and designed us , He should know our capabilities ,desires, and the exceptions among us ...etc
Why is "Zina" not allowed? One can argue it is a private affair of two consulting adults in their own privacy?
Why are so many other desires not acceptable according to GOD? Should be the question!
Not why does Science agree/disagree? Especially when the research is not conclusive?
Connecting/disconnecting from our Creator is the main problem!!!!!
For example Joseph was connected to His Lord;
...."We thus diverted evil and sin away from him, for he was one of our devoted servants".
Before you make any assumptions I am not judging anyone or applying that so and so is evil or sin?
I am implying that GOD protects/helps us from the "wrong desires" .
If you come to a conclusion that homosexuality is not a "wrong desire" , try and back this judgement from Qoran ,not just Science.
GOD bless you.
Peace JavaLatte.
QuoteHowever, maybe things could change if one day our Lord grants new messenger, someone who is able to explain (clearly) to us the actual meanings of the messages of the Qur'an.
There will always be disputes/disagreements... Every time a messenger comes, there are people who oppose him/her.
The next one will be no different. If there was " no doubt whatsoever "from everyone and total agreement. then the matter would be settled and there will be no trial.
In other words GOD Himself will come down with the Angels and the matter will be done /final judgement!GOD bless you.
Peace to both of you. -
Walaykum assalam,
Do you have evidence to support the statement that homosexualitiy is a choice for some people? As per the blanketing concept homosexuality involves the sexual attraction to a person of the same sex. It may manifest in different forms and present on a spectrum in a variety of ways, but it is still fundamentally the same thing. I am speaking about the fundamental pretense attraction to the same sex. Do we have any evidence to suggest that it is a personal choice?
I am speaking about the objective, operational definition of homosexuality as in attraction to the same sex. I don't want us to get distracted with a discussion on semantics, so let's focus strictly on attraction to the same sex.
Let's not diminish the significance of this topic; I think it's very important to discuss as I don't wish to dehumanize our fellow brothers and sisters who are too often alienated in faith. Empathy can help us be more sensitive imagine how it must feel to think that your biology, over which you have no control, has forced you into a state of severe sin. It doesn't seem right. Therefore, let's try to show some courtesy in understanding the roots of homosexuality before we come to any strict judgments. Furthermore, we should always be patient in our discussions. To be precise, I am not interested in opinions on this matter. I am interested in facts. This is why I am requesting scientific, peer-reviewed, scholarly literature on homosexuality. We will all benefit greatly in our understanding if we seek knowledge, not opinion.I am fully aware that homosexuality involves a desire, as does heterosexuality. This desire, however, is not our personal choice, so how can we be held accountable for what we cannot control? I want to bring up a separate example of a breach of morality with respect to desire which will hopefully help us understand the spectrum better
What evidence? What evidence is there that homosexuality is one thing and one thing only. There is no such a thing. I do not need to go into a laboratory to find that out. In order to know people, the only material you need is people. People we all of us know if we are interested in knowing. We do not need to have some scientis t0o come and tells us what is front of us.
The evidence is what I have seen, verified by myself. I know very well men who have b een attracted to women, then experimented and became homosexual. A matter of "morbo". A lot of social, emotional and self image factors come into it.
Exucse me, but it is so plain and so common that I find it absurd that somebody should be looking for "scientific" evidence.
It is completely different when it is a matter of homronhes and physiological determination. There it may be innate and cannot be helped except by chemical or chirrugical treatment, which I personally if I was in such a situation, would not like. I fear those things.
But that is the less frenquent situation. More frequent are emotional experiences, scars, or whatever we may want to call them and exprimenting. That is the main source, at least an important source of homosexuallity. It is a very common saying that once you try it you will not want to go back to straight sex. That is you are straight till you experiment with the other, once you do you may be caught in it. That I have seen myself, and I do not need to go to any laboratory nor to any university to have it certified. And I doubt that they get their results 100% honestly or undonditionned. "science" on human questions tends to be very much coloured by the thought anfd ideollogical fashion.
If I am interested in somebody and want the best for him or her, I would ask him or her and try to find out from him or her w2hatever is there to find out, not from any university nor any other factories of thought or morality. I rather rule those things for myself by myself.
I may and I do listen with all my interest people who have gone trhough emotional trying experiences (we all have gone through those) which may have conditionned his or her life as a sexed individual, but if I care for somebody, what I am not going to do is to pander to idollogical o scientifical fashion for the sake of political correctness. Whatever I come to observe I will not grind it so that it fits in any preconceived or sanctified idea. It is the person who interests me, no how that person can be made to fit thought fashion. I myslef would not like that somebody were interested in me and my problems only to the extent that I can be made to fit some box.
Salaam
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As to the Qur'an I do not think that it forbids or condones liking or being attracted to the same sex. On the other hand the Qur'an always enjoins humanity in sexual dealings, loyalty and respect of equity. It circumscribes its statements to hetero sexual relations, and apart from the Lut people, which is a completely different situation of debauchery, and not a question of being attracted to the same sex, I have not seen that it talks at all about homosexual acts. In fac, in those matters what I see that the Qur'an does is call to good things rather than spend to many words damning bad things in that aspect. It damns continually other things, like hypocresy, double standards, oppression, sow discord and ill will...
Other things does not go into them. If it does not, I gather it is because it is better that it does not. It does however hammer the respect of privacy. That is, sexual conundrums are a trial for persons, but they must not be "socialised". People must be left their privacy to lead on their own lives, their own tragedies and their own problems without them being paraded in the market palce. They must be left to their own dialogues with their own souls. They may do wrong or they may do right, but they should be left to make their return to God on the terms of their own problems and circumstances, in peace and with the possibility of not being publicly judged for something that is private, and not be made the subject of talk when they do not parade their own intimacy and people in general should not get near that kinds of exhibitions if somebody engages in them.
In privacy, of course, people should do their best to help others see clear in themselves. If God gives us problems it is not to damn us, but to make us know Him and get nearer Him.It so happens tht new life comes fromheterosexual relations, therefore there is a point in keeping track of those relationships and that they should have public endorsement for the good of the descendants, but there is no point in making a public business of intimate relations that do not generate for society a particular benefit like the reproduction and reconstitution of society with every generation.
That is, any relation between persons of the same sex is something absolutely private and with private consequenes. Same case with people who are beyond the reproductive age. It is private it corresponds to the private person to evaluate his or her deeds.
Salaam
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May harmony be with you,
Unless you are a homosexual yourself and very aware of yourself it is difficult to say how this is an innate condition or if it is a personal "delusion". No one in their right mind would choose to be a homosexual, so we must consider that it is at least a helpless condition. It seems like it is a case that cannot be treated.
I agree with you.
I think however; that there are many people who claim bisexuality while they only fall victim to their own desires. If they are bisexual they have a choice, and the design is that there is supposed to be a male and female and together they are as one body. That is the anatomical design. In ways I can understand people who commit homosexual acts, but God forbid me from even venturing into that abomination.
Yes, this is something that I wanted to explore. A lot of the other replies are venturing into abstracts saying that the Qur'an neither forbids nor encourages homosexuality, but there are clearly homosexuality references in 781 and 2165-166. In cases of personal choice, I could find that the people of Lut were perhaps bisexual.
Other than this; homosexuality is not a part of the statutory commandments from God. It does not say that it is right, but it does cause neither oppression nor injustice on its own. But it does not require a very intelligent brain to realize that things were not created so that men are with men or women with women. It is not exactly that it is something important to write about in the scriptures and it is barely mentioned in the past. It is against how things are created, but it causes nothing but a personal loss.
A lot of opponents of homosexuality claim that it is not part of the natural order. Since, of course, it is found in nature, we can agree that it is a natural occurrence. Because homosexuality and reproduction are incompatible, it has been stated that the condition is maladaptive. However, an interesting counter-argument I came across mentioned how our species has (long) transcended the carrying capacity and we are at an overpopulation crisis. In this way, those who do not reproduce are, in fact, providing relief for said crisis. It was an interesting idea.
So far there are no scientific results regarding this topic, but also it is a politically and emotionally charged topic so I think research is limited. And if research is undertaken it can often be politically motivated by people who seek to find a cause and is undertaken reluctantly to find a biased explanation. The issue is likely hidden in the thinking that is going on in the persons, but so far we cannot read minds. We can not understand mental illnesses but only see what kind of activity that occurs in the brain fluids and electric impulses while the symptoms are active. Science got quite many hurdles to get past before they can explain homosexuality.
I have found a number of papers even dating back to 1993 (I'm sure there are studies earlier than this) that have made progress in understanding the roots of homosexuality. For quite some time there has been talk about a "gay gene," but a number of researchers object to such an oversimplification. This article here is insightful
http//www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10637532/Being-homosexual-is-only-partly-due-to-gay-gene-research-finds.html
And a person who goes against too much of his innate instincts also suffers from this, unless The Master helps him/her control this. The homosexual drive seems to be instinctive. But it cannot be proven as it is right now, no.
This is a very important point you have made, and this is why I am very sensitive to the topic and how people handle it. I have grown weary of religious "scholars" point to causes of homosexuality out of thin air. Dr. Zakir Naik began stating that he knew unequivocally the causes of homosexuality he said children who watch too much porn eventually become saturated by it and need something more, so they turn to homosexuality. A different reply I will mention, I believe by huruf it was, thinks looking at science is absurd. I hope huruf can see that it is a scientific venture to understand a condition that is so heavily shunned by our fellow brothers and sisters in faith.
The only thing you and these people can be informed about is that it is not the natural design and that if it can be helped they should simply not do it. Problem is these "Pride" festivals and the glamorization of bi-homosexuality and trans sexism, as in to make it a normalized thing. It grows forth because other people have problems with these people and it causes a bad trend. It should not become a normalized scenario.
I mentioned above that as homosexuality occurs naturally, we cannot dismiss it as not part of the natural design. I spoke above about this a little bit already. I completely agree with you about the pride festivals - I don't think these types of things should be flaunted in public.
peace,
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the above, but there have been many studies on genetically identical twins in journals, wherein one is straight and one is gay, and the conclusion has consistently been that one is not born gay. In other words, it is a combination of nature and nurture.
In any case
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/islam-homosexuality.htmThank you for that link. Yes, I am aware of those studies. There still are some differences in identical twins. Studies have shown high correlations, in that if one twin is gay, the other has a higher probability (than otherwise) to be gay as well. In cases where this doesn't happen, it is plausible to suggest that there were hormonal variations in fetal development.
It ought to be a mental disorder then. But the question is how identical genetic twins are and if there can be some developmental flaws.
Peace
Interestingly, homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder in the DSM up until I believe the 1970s. It was later removed; some say to political pressure of the time, some say to actual science. Regardless, most psychiatrists today agree that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, but there are still some that would consider it so.
What evidence? What evidence is there that homosexuality is one thing and one thing only. There is no such a thing. I do not need to go into a laboratory to find that out. In order to know people, the only material you need is people. People we all of us know if we are interested in knowing. We do not need to have some scientis t0o come and tells us what is front of us.
This is called pseudoscience. Firstly, you are playing a game with semantics. Keep it simple homosexuality = the state of being sexually attracted to people of their own sex. As I said previously, there is a spectrum of manifestations of homosexuality, but at its core, it is a very simple concept. I am not looking for evidence to support the definition, just use a dictionary. I am looking for scientific evidence regarding the causal links of homosexuality, and you do need scientific studies for this, not just "I have seen" or "verified by myself." This will not fly, because homosexuality is a condition of the brain.
The evidence is what I have seen, verified by myself. I know very well men who have b een attracted to women, then experimented and became homosexual. A matter of "morbo". A lot of social, emotional and self image factors come into it.
I'm sorry, but I find it extremely difficult to accept your 'empirical' findings. Are you aware of the concept of being a closeted homosexual? Many homosexuals go through a phase of hiding their orientation or even attempting to change it in order to be part of the majority, out of fear of alienation, etc. Only Allah knows what is in the chest, so your claim, as honest as you might think you are, is not strong at all, sorry to say. Your statement regarding social and emotional and self-image factors may play a role in how a person presents himself/herself to the world, but it doesn't have any insight regarding causation of homosexuality.
Exucse me, but it is so plain and so common that I find it absurd that somebody should be looking for "scientific" evidence.
It is completely different when it is a matter of homronhes and physiological determination. There it may be innate and cannot be helped except by chemical or chirrugical treatment, which I personally if I was in such a situation, would not like. I fear those things.
But that is the less frenquent situation. More frequent are emotional experiences, scars, or whatever we may want to call them and exprimenting.
You are coming up with statistical information out of thin air. You claim it is absurd to look for scientific evidence, but you haven't realized that you are making up your own scientific evidence. Statistics are key to the scientific method (gathering data), and you came up with these out of thin air by saying "that is the less frenquent situation." It is clear you don't understand the power of evidence, because you are coming up with your own causal links which are nothing but your own words. I hope you can see the discrepancies in your line of reasoning.
If I am interested in somebody and want the best for him or her, I would ask him or her and try to find out from him or her w2hatever is there to find out, not from any university nor any other factories of thought or morality. I rather rule those things for myself by myself.
Since when is a science lab or a research facility a factory of morality? We should be humble in our realization that human progress and knowledge can only benefit our understanding. We are very frail creatures, prone to arrogance and foolish thinking.
