Transcendent or Immanent God?
-
Salaam, I like your analogy and I am eager for you to explain the idea in further detail. I am intrigued by it
I especially like the part underlined.The part that you underlined is a nice analogy, isn't?
Bold Kindly explain further or more about this, brother MoF. Thanks.
Salm.
Harmony upon you,
I am not really sure what kind of explanation you are expecting, but it is the way I perceive faith and by using an allegorical approach which makes it easier to fathom the way things are. We are born as a soul into this world inserted into a physical body and I take it that the soul is blank as we enter into existence using a template which is designed by God and like a copy of the original specimen Adam, and also with an impurity called Satan which acts much like a virus for the soul. We can choose to become one with God or become whole as I prefer to call it, or we can choose to become like Satan and letting Satan, the virus, contaminate our entire mind. And the good is from God, so the person who does good is pushing the virus Satan away from their soul and approach the state of wholeness. This is why I tend to erase the concept belief vs. disbelief because it does not work this way and the Arabic word "iman" is misrepresented by using the "belief" word. The person who lets Satan, the virus, contaminate his or her mind is "disbelief" in that case and it is pretty hard to define that using a scale belief vs. disbelief because claiming to be believer will not avail much in the matter.
Rather the goal of the promise (al-deen) is for the one who enters into symbiosis with God, which is by becoming 'whole', or one with The Master, and this is also what I consider the Arabic word "iman" to symbolize. The only real opposite scenario of becoming one with God is to become an anomaly, as I allegorically call it in contrast to the kind of "singularity" we live within. The anomaly is an impurity and the virus Satan is affecting the severity of that "disease". It does not matter much if you call yourself a believer or not in case your heart is not "iman", or whole, because it is the sincerity from deep within the soul and the cleanliness of the soul that really counts. Belief vs disbelief is a dogmatic and imprecise measuring technique because going by that parameter then you would not end up with many "believers" in the world at all.
Anyway, what I said in the previous post here was that they are put into quarantine as the promised day comes, but that was merely allegorically speaking to demonstrate what happens to the impurities from the old world. It was quite a well-matched definition for what becomes of them. Besides I have noticed the recitation to (alleged) Muhammad says something similar, i.e. if these people were sent back they would just repeat the same errors and thus it may be wiser that they are kept in quarantine rather than destroy the living for people. The pure people will have no more problems from these insincere people.
Be whole
-
If all is evidence of God, and we see "his" face wherever we look, this says more about the nature of creation and our relation to God, than it does about where God is "placed". The point is to see Allah's face and to know. The point is not to conclude the location of Allah, because that's just intellectual philosophy, at best.
Salaam,
Just an expansion of what you said.
I think you meant with "Allahs face" the quranic expression "wazjhu Allah".
Indeed everywhere where we look there is wazjhu Allah.
But it is very important for us to understand that "wazjhu Allah" is not Allah.
With other words what we see is NOT Allah but wazjhu Allah.
It is the same as rasulu Allah, rasulu Allah is a much Allah as wazjhu Allah is.
Who Allah is, is beyond us. Allah is The One who is beyond our utmost imagination.I found your response appropriate, balanced and wise.
On the other hand, I found myself poorly expressed.Peace
I think both of you have excellent posts yes
Salaam,
Bender -
Immanent.
-
I dont get it why should God either Trancendent or Immanent. Do you have any other definition rather than on my dictionary?
Each time I thought my consicousness was God's part, there is something bothering me, how our consciousness is very material dependant. For example, nicotine. If consicousness was separated from the body, why when our brain had certain molecule it created certain sensation? It very material dependant right?
Once I had to go to the surgery table, and I was given particular drugs. If soul separated from the body, I should experience something right? But, what I remembered was, when I closed my eyes, it was just a few seconds. I thought the surgery was cancelled, who thought it was 4 hours. Of course, suddenly I gradually remembering something, but what I remembered was just an inconvenient experience like you are just about to die. But when I first gradually regain consciousness I dont remember any of it.
Once I was poisoned by a drugs(Ahem, overdosed ;D), my parents saw my eyes open, after a few hours, yes I remembered it, but when it happened, I dont understand anything, I can see, but I know nothing, I can hear, but I understand nothing. I dont even remember am I really conscious in there. And like I said, I gradually remembered it, part by part after a few hours, until I fully regain my consciousness.It kept me thinking, why our soul was depend on our physical appearance. Why is it attached to me? And why certain molecule can alter it?
I cant understand it except, matter can create consciousness. I always thinking, no matter who is the real God, we are dealing with a God, that understand about Him self, and make a thing that resemble with His. Why not? We already saw "senseless" things on our life. The space, the complete"non-sense technology", or a contradicting "technology" like the plants. Electrolysis is the best advanced technique I knew on how to separated water to the purest form, hydrogen and oxygen, but plants do it to carbon, without heat, and plants make the world cooler.
If I thought about God, I thought about "superstition" ;D about "magic".
-
God is everything, the foundation.
-
I dont get it why should God either Trancendent or Immanent. Do you have any other definition rather than on my dictionary?
Each time I thought my consicousness was God's part, there is something bothering me, how our consciousness is very material dependant. For example, nicotine. If consicousness was separated from the body, why when our brain had certain molecule it created certain sensation? It very material dependant right?
Once I had to go to the surgery table, and I was given particular drugs. If soul separated from the body, I should experience something right? But, what I remembered was, when I closed my eyes, it was just a few seconds. I thought the surgery was cancelled, who thought it was 4 hours. Of course, suddenly I gradually remembering something, but what I remembered was just an inconvenient experience like you are just about to die. But when I first gradually regain consciousness I dont remember any of it.
Once I was poisoned by a drugs(Ahem, overdosed ;D), my parents saw my eyes open, after a few hours, yes I remembered it, but when it happened, I dont understand anything, I can see, but I know nothing, I can hear, but I understand nothing. I dont even remember am I really conscious in there. And like I said, I gradually remembered it, part by part after a few hours, until I fully regain my consciousness.It kept me thinking, why our soul was depend on our physical appearance. Why is it attached to me? And why certain molecule can alter it?
I cant understand it except, matter can create consciousness. I always thinking, no matter who is the real God, we are dealing with a God, that understand about Him self, and make a thing that resemble with His. Why not? We already saw "senseless" things on our life. The space, the complete"non-sense technology", or a contradicting "technology" like the plants. Electrolysis is the best advanced technique I knew on how to separated water to the purest form, hydrogen and oxygen, but plants do it to carbon, without heat, and plants make the world cooler.
If I thought about God, I thought about "superstition" ;D about "magic".
I've actually discussed all these things in details, and it is important to know what it is that we are worshiping.
Allah is non-information. Everything else is information which Allah has the power to generate, creating and destroying or "changing" as Allah wills.
Allah is not information, so can not be experienced directly because there is nothing to be "informed of", no information. That is why death and unconsciousness like you experienced is skipped, and called "returning to Allah".