Slaves in Quran and Islam
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I think you missed the point good logic. It is talk about people who are forced to become slaves to someone , like the 'Children of Israel' in Mesr, and the right to keep people the way Pharaoh did, like property. Some people argue that Quran allows slavery. And I am sure that you know what slavery means.
Generally there may be a certain difference between a servant and a slave. You can agree to be a servant while you are forced to be a slave.
Have faith
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Qoran is ahead of time. The point is "What is the difference between slave and servant?
The answer depends on the system and the master!!!
Think about it brother,have some people got the choice ? really?
I think I know what you are trying to say, However you missed my point.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salamun Alaikum.
It is my humble opinion, that to have a meaningful discussion on this topic, we need to first distinguish between ?being slave? and ?slavery?.
The term ?being slave? (3abada) means to submit to another as subordinate. This is the meaning in surah fatiha ? Y?a ka na?budu ? ?You are the One We are slave to?? this means we are subordinate only to our Master who has given us our life, our sense, our conscience and intellect ? our ability to discern good and bad ? our ability to think and judge. We are slave to Him by unconditionally agreeing to use these tools given by Him. The moment we repress our God gifted conscience and intellect in favor of a leader / a theology / a passion etc. ? we are choosing a Master different than Allah.
The choice of who one would be slave to - is always a personal choice. One may choose to be slave to Allah, someone else may choose to be slave to his ego, while another one may be salve to money.
However, the term ?Slavery? has a different meaning. Per Wikipedia, ?Slavery is a legal or economic system under which people are treated as property. Though laws and systems vary, as property, slaves may be bought and sold. Slaves can be held from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand compensation.?
The ?slaves? under a ?Slavery? system can still be ?Slave to Allah Alone? in Qur?anic sense if they choose to uphold their conscience and morality instead of blindly obeying their ?legal? master. I hope this makes the difference of the two concepts clear.
I believe the question of this thread is how Qur?an views the legal / economic system of ?Slavery?. Below is what I think of this issue
The typical understanding of the legal / economic system of ?Slavery? seem to have the following components
- Capturing slaves from a foreign country (e.g. Africa).
- Selling buying slaves in market-place.
- Not allowing the slaves any rights to leave, to refuse work and to negotiate on compensation.
- The legal master is not liable for causing any physical / emotional damage to the ?slave?
- The offspring of a ?slave? by-birth become the ?slave? of the legal master of its parents.
Per my understanding Qur?an nullifies number 1 and 3 with the following verse or similar other ones
429 O! Those who have faith ? do not consume your wealth among yourselves with deceit except that there happens to be a trade on mutual consent (and satisfaction) and do not kill your souls. Indeed Allah happens to be Kind to you.
430 And whoever performs that hostility and injustice then soon We will burn him in fire and that happens to be trivial for Allah.
(My personal transaction, cross checking is recommended.)
The essence is we cannot engage in a transaction with another person without mutual consent and agreement. Hence capturing human beings as ?slaves? by force (Number 1), and forcing ?slaves? to work under compulsory arrangements (Number 3) are by default ruled out.
Furthermore, the following verse rules out Number 4
2178 O! Those who have faith - qisas is prescribed for you ? for murder - the freeman (for murder) by the freeman, and the slave (for murder) by the slave, and the female (for murder) by the female. Then whoever is pardoned for it by his brother (accepting) anything then follows up with due fairness and discharges upon it nicely ? that is a concession from your Master and mercy. Then whoever transgresses after that so for him - a painful suffering.
(My personal transaction, cross checking is recommended.)
This verse preaches the rule of equitable retribution (i.e. qisas) ? everyone is liable for punishment for his own crime ? no distinction between freeman, slave, male or female. So, neither the freeman can get away with a crime committed against a slave ? nor can a slave get away with the crime committed against a freeman. That is the essence of Qur?anic justice.
So, this leaves only number 2 and 5. The selling and buying of ?slaves? in the market and inheriting the children of the ?slaves?. Now ? if we have eliminated number 1, 3 and 4 ? we have to understand we are no longer speaking of ?slaves? in the traditional sense ? rather we are talking about independent individuals (who have their right to negotiate and seek justice) who are bound by some sort of ?obligation? ? most commonly a financial obligation to repay a debt.
For example, if I borrow from you $1 million and promise to repay you by working for you ? I am under some sort of legal obligation to work for you. Would you call me a ?slave?? You may ? it will only be a matter of speech ? but I?ll still have my legal rights to negotiate with you to determine a fair basis for my rate of compensation and you will still be accountable for compensating me if any injustice / harm is done to me under your custody. I will still be eligible to full legal protection under applicable labor laws in my jurisdiction. However, it may be possible to make my bond to you a ?negotiable instrument? so that it can be transacted in appropriate labor market (Number 2) ? and also if I die before I fully repay ? my offspring will inherit the debt and may be made liable to repay (Number 5).
I believe this was the nature of ?slaves? who were owned / transacted / inherited in early days of Islam and may not be at odds with Qur?an. There are also stories from life of different Prophets who worked for number of years for their ?legal master? to repay a loan. These rules are still very much in practice in today?s world. People sign all sorts of bonds and promises with the corporates they work for - which may be of above nature. Inheriting parent?s debt is also legal in most societies. Many developed countries allow employing ?domestic helpers? ? who work under similar arrangements (usually for a fixed pre-agreed compensation, instead of a debt; but often the helpers incur large debt for getting on board with the job ? which they keep repaying throughout their course of employment). It is critical to understand how this system differs from the system of ?slavery? typically conceptualized.
So, in a nutshell ? does Qur?an support the system of slavery? In traditional sense of ?slavery? ? No, it doesn?t. But, if we can ensure that the so called ?slave? is working under mutual consent and satisfaction (no compulsion) and is eligible for full legal protection and rights ? including right to negotiate on the rate of compensation and pace of work ? then perhaps such an arrangement, though called ?slavery? may not be at odds with our conscience, nor with Qur?an.
Am I making this any clearer, or more confusing? Looking forward to see more enlightening posts on this topic.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Peace good logic,
Slave is a poor word because it is originally derogatory for a certain group of people. See word etymology.
Bondsman is a word which sounds nicer. Slave has a very cruel connotation and some people can feel touched from whose ancestors were treated poorly by other humans.
Now aebd means that you are a property for a cause, like servitude and I cannot deny it due to the nature of the word =Possess =with(in) =condition/state. Still servant is a much nicer word and the aebd-word connotes service for a purpose. Besides you can choose to not serve "God" like Shaitaan.
Slave or not to "God", this is a thread where the topic is whether there is slavery in Quran. Why have you slipped into this topic and begun to argue this with me?
And I wrote of ancient "contracts of servitude" which were prominent and a sort of employment. Moses agreed on a similar contract to help his father-in-law for some years. Many of servants you find of have agreed voluntarily to serve, perhaps they sold themselves into servitude to give a sum to the survival of their families.
Only unrighteous people treated servants badly and like "slaves". They were as part of your family. Many servants mentioned in the Scriptures are not forced servants. And I said people like Pharaoh kept slaves.
But those under these contracts are still aebd to their boss so under your logic they are slaves, even if it is voluntary and they uphold an agreement to serve? They often could if they wanted go away but then they break their oath of servitude and during this time it was dishonorable to break a service contract. I think it is wrong also today 2014 to break a contract, is it not?
Old customs said that a servant should serve for some years and then be let go free although not empty handed. It was a sort of code of conduct. There did exist moral rules also in ancient times and it was not only cruel like you may think for you were not there.
However unconditional slavery is not accepted by Quran. It is an inference by polluted minds. You possess servants for they are under an oath to you.
Have faith
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Dont split hairs on this topic. The Holy Messenger (SAWA) was not sent to abolish slavery.
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According to the Quran (5156),
Serving G-D alone is the purpose/duty of humanity as a whole.That being said,
It (belongs) not to any mortal that G-D would grant him the Decree, Rulership, and the Prophecy, then he would say to the people
"Be ye servants to me instead of G-D"
379To claim that 'The Master of tellurians' would approve of any person enslaving another is simply inconceivable, for not only is it not supported by the Quranic text, but is clearly in conflict with its main message (to serve G-D alone)!! If ye believe that G-D is indeed 'The Master' and that we should give homage and obedience to Him as 'His servants'; Then "... come (now), to a word common between us and you, that we SERVE NONE BUT G-D, ..." (364)!??
PS The Prophet was not even allowed to "shackle" the 'prisoners of war' (much less enslave others)!
and it (belongs) not to any prophet that he would shackle
3161
SLM
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please take my posts as having a conversation with you brother. They are not meant to be an "argument" with you.
So apologies if I gave you that impression.
Coming back to slavery,slaves,servants....
As you know there is only one true Master. Those who have other masters,accept other masters , accept other power over them,whether they realise it or not, are not free!!!!!
God granted Satan power to hypnotize the de-scendants of Adam ." This power is given to Satan under one crucial condition Anyone shall snap out of the hypnotic trance upon deciding to serve God alone and have only one Master have freed themselves.
He (Satan) said, "My Lord, since You have willed that I go astray, I will surely entice them on earth; I will send them all astray. Except those among Your servants who are devoted absolutely to You alone." He (God) said, "This is a law that is inviolable you have no power over my servants; you only have power over the strayers who follow you."
I am saying those who were /are slaves and accept GOD as the true master have freed themselves, hence they are not slaves regardless of what we say or think!!!!!
However in the same way some people think are guided ,but they are not! Some believe they are free but they are not . They have chosen a false master?
He (God) guides some people while others are committed to straying. They have chosen the devils as their masters, instead of God, yet they think they are guided.
But I agree there are different degrees of slavery ,and some masters are worse than others!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Well, good logic, stop obeying police and quit your job because you cannot have any other authorities.
The message is that you have only one foundation but a man can give expression of "God's" spirit.
You continue your slavery comments and the hostile disbeliever reasoning like the high priests who sought to get Jesus crucified.
Have faith
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Zakah expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect and for bringing hearts together and for freeing captives and for those in debt and for the cause of Allah and for the traveler - an obligation by Allah . And Allah is Knowing and Wise.(960)
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Of course you know, just as the Pope of Rome knows, you know because you know and nobody else knows.
Salaam
Thanks for the sarcasms. All i can say you (Quranists) have low self esteem. You are doing everything possible to "Westernize" Islam by destroying its history. You are attempting to fit Islam into the Western framework.
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Peace Man Of Faith.
On what evidence /ground do you say the following?
You continue your slavery comments and the hostile disbeliever reasoning like the high priests who sought to get Jesus crucified.
If you disagree with what I say ,just produce a better argument/point,without derogatory to the person!
I am surprised at your comment brother?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Thanks for the sarcasms. All i can say you (Quranists) have low self esteem. You are doing everything possible to "Westernize" Islam by destroying its history. You are attempting to fit Islam into the Western framework.
I think this deserves de same comment as the previous one
Of course you know, just as the Pope of Rome knows, you know because you know and nobody else knows.
Salaam
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It was maybe an overreaction, good logic. I am just tired of the disbeliever reasoning and I compared that to the mindset of the high priests in Jesus' time.
I apologize if you were offended.
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
