Rituals - revisited
-
Yes. The Persians are/were more influential than you may think.
I even have theories that the old empire was behind the shaping of religion in the region over a quite long time. Before Islam as propagated today was even heard of namaz was performed by Persians in the so called Zoroastrianism. And that is not because it is authentic, but it has its root in Paganism as the worship style of materialized gods of which you give an image of something.
Only Pakistani / Persian sunnis/shiites calls their five (or three for shiites) times a day ritual praying as Namaz
Having said that, Namaz is an ancient persian / Avestan word for "honouring"..
It also the same root word which evolved to "Namashte" in today's hindi.
With similar meanings "Honor (to you)".As Sunniism religion was spread (and enforced) to Persia, Pakistan and India through the invasion of Mongol/Turkic kings..
They changed the existing ritual of "Namaz" with the Sunniism ritual but retained the name.I respect the ancient Persian culture and will not blindly calls them as "Pagan"...
Cyrus is among the earliest as recorded in history to apply "Freedom of Belief / Opinion" within his kingdom.
Cyrus's tradition is of course "Zoroastrian" and he calls his god as "Ahura Mazda"..Nonetheless he never enforced anyone within his kingdom to become "Zoroastrians" and/or standardized the name to call god with the name of "Ahura Mazda". (Unlike the Muslims, Jews or Christian Kings)
Furthermore he even helped to rebuild a temple for YHVH for the jews..
And that's why the Bible speaks about him in a very good light, even called him with the title "Messiah" (The Choosen) -
No I so not call the ancient Zartosht faith as Paganism either. But then it was their seat of power of the ancient Persian empire which helped shape the religion in the Middle-East during its years of dominance. I suspect the Pharisees/Parsu (in Hebrew the Pharisees are called Parsu) actually is the seat of power in the Fars/Pars region of ancient Persia and where the kings had their tombs, Persepolis (takhte jamshid), Pasargade etc.
The original faith as according to Cyrus the King and other early kings testify of very upright and goodly rulers and I have great respect for them and so did Alexander the Great have too despite waging war for conquest.
However, the worship practice called 'namaz' with strict timing and which the so-called Islamic salat is based upon, has no basis in early practices, even if they had other strange habits such as burning incense, sacrificing animals in thousands on stone altars etc etc. I have personally visited Zartosht/Zoroastrian historical places in Iran and investigated old sacrifice altars and so on. The burning of fire is also mentioned in the Biblical scriptures. The problem is that the Zartosht faith is several thousand years old since around the days of Moses. Any exact date I do not have and I have not identified Zartosht/Zarathustra either from the Bible/Quran for I strongly doubt that such a man was never mentioned in them, however he probably went under another spirit name in another language. Considered the intricate details he seems to have come with I would not rule out that it was Moses.
Hinduism shares many heinous practices with the inventions such as burning one hundred thousand of cattle for a ceremonial activity. And it is practiced like that in 2014! It is not surprising if their practices were transferred over time from Zoroastrianism which is thousands of years old.
All these rituals which tainted scriptures are no revelation from "God"/Allah/Elohim and man-made traditions invented in the old Persian empire. I am sorry if you get touched if I call them Paganism, but for me that is when you make an image of a god even if it happens to be called Ahura Mazda or Allah or Elohim or Yahwe. None of the prophets in any region taught a Pagan style religion and you see signs of that in other faiths like Buddhism. Not even Allah is an objectified deity if you properly translate Quran. It is pure superstition. Even as early as when Moses came people knew that "God" is "I am that I am" or third person "is that it is, so already back then people spoke of a non-objectified "higher power" entity. Yet people in 2014 argue otherwise! Both the very words Allah and Elohim are third person versions of "I am that I am".
Additionally, regarding the kings of Persia, I regard them as the people and kings mentioned in the Biblical scriptures about great king Solomon/Suleiman and David/Dawood and their empires. There is no empire that was greater than during Cyrus ever and same is claimed about Solomon's empire. And Cambyses was the a one that had diplomatic contacts with a queen of Ethiopia, likely Moroe.
And like I mentioned above, the Pharisee sect which Jesus has great trouble with are superstitious clerics and scholars of Pars adhering to Zoroastrianism/Judaism and which is later Islam but with Persians in other locations.
Religious freedom was given by the early rulers of Achimenid empire and this symbolizes an Islamic philosophy as well which is something that would be preached by a true prophet. "God" is mainly against strange rituals and habits which disturbs the peace, and wicked rulers, and not so much who serve the right deity. A prophet would teach against the materialization of a deity at all though and try to make people realize that Pagan style reverence of a deity is futile. This is how the descriptive labels Allah and Elohim came into existence to combat the materialized perception of a god.
Despite giving religious freedom, the kings invaded countries with wicked rulers and made them separate kingdoms within the empire with their own governor. The attack on Babylon is one of the reasons, they had taken Jews captive. And like you said, the Persian kings helped construct the temple in Jerusalem through inspiration from "God" directly according to the narratives. However I feel the Jewish kings are actually part of the Persian Empire, and it is no secret that Jerusalem was under Persian rule for a very long time as part of the Empire.
If Cyrus, as indicated, spent enormous resources on the construction of a temple he would logically need a strong motive such as that Jerusalem was holy to him. One thing is giving religious freedom, but another is spending vast resources for another religion unless it is your own and you have faith in it. Cyrus hardly used those resources and personal supervision unless it was Ahura Mazda who told/inspired him to rebuild a huge temple elsewhere. It is just my bell of logic that rings.
And I would not blindly believe the Biblical scriptures with their interpretation just as I do not outright accept Quran's interpretation. The Jews tainted much of their own Hebrew tongue.
Have faith
-
Be faithful Armanaziz,
"God" does not command us to any ritual. If you mean about salateh it means something else. I have gone through all 98 instances of salateh in Qur'an and it cannot refer to a ritual due to the failure to hold any good literal quality.
You mean a way to fabricate an excuse for validating the invented ritual called Salat?
Have faih
Salamun Alaikum.
Among the Zartosht there have been those who performed the rituals to enhance their faith and reliance on the Master of the universe ? and there were others who deviated from the true purpose of the rituals.
Among the Hindus there have been those who performed the rituals to sincerely seek the face of Brahman ? and there were others who sought vein idols.
Among the Buddhists there have been those who performed their rituals to seek Nirvana ? and there were others who made the rituals an excuse to idolize Buddha.
Among the Jews there have been those who performed their salat rituals to seek the Mercy of God ? and there were others who worshiped a jealous deity to give them their kingdom on earth!
Among the Christians there have been those who performed their rituals to be one with the Holy Father ? and there were others who made the rituals an excuse to idolize Jesus.
Among the followers of Muhammad, there have been those who performed their rituals to seek the Mercy of Allah ? and there were others who made the rituals nothing more than clapping and dancing.
I have faith in my Master who guides whomever He wills and who deviates whomever He wills. My Master does not need / demand / command / enforce any form of ritual worship from us. My Master endorses for us to do whatever is good for our own souls.
If you are convinced a path excluding all form of rituals is the one that is best for you ? you are most welcome to seek your own path. But perhaps it does not harm to recognize there are other contrary views ? and just because a view does not match your own ? does not necessarily make it an incorrect view.
For you is your resolution, for me is mine.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Feel free to have a ritual Armanaziz but what I say to you is that you have no scripture which commands you from "God" to perform it. It is your invention/choice. Quran does not propagate any ritual except community service/volunteer work and to spread the word of "God", nor did Jesus Christ advocate any ritual but had a strict anti-Pagan stance. Any other Christian ideas of rituals are from men and so from those who call themselves Muslims.
Have faith
-
I will agree with Arman that certain exercises helps you connect with your creator. Deep meditation techniques lead to self realization. Alternatively deep intellectual introspection can also lead to realization. If correct techniques are applied it helps the uninitiated. I have read that touching your forehead on earth ( bare earth not in some building) helps one to harmonize their vibratory patterns and give focus for thoughts and action.
-
Harmony be with you shogun,
Then it is talking about voluntary meditation, concentration exercises and not a (religious) ritual, for in which meditation you seek spiritual clarity, and perhaps affinity with it, if you define it like that. Meditation of course means different things to those who perform it, but it basically comes down to the aim of spiritual harmony.
Rituals in religion on the other hand are performed to subdue and please the deity in question and not originally really to grow spiritually. It is a prescribed or even dogmatically enforced rule of that respective sect.
Arman's reasoning in this thread are basically attempts at finding an excuse for rituals while there are clear differences between various ritual types. I said one may observe a ritual if that is their desire, however they shall know that 'Allah' has never prescribed any religious ritual and it is questionable whether it is on a spiritual level any beneficial effect from it except being a placebo effect (wiki search placebo if you do not know the term). That means as long as I can gain the same placebo effect I can do any kind of ritual such as plain meditation or I could even give charity and gain the same effect with faith that it will yield the same result.
Personally, as a personal preference, I do my "ritual" of spiritual growth/clarity by silent reflection and tinkering upon existence and reevaluation of my very being constantly, and if there is something I am wrong about or if there is any new abstract thinking I can gain more clarity in.
I was also an adherent for a while to the sectarian salat in my ignorance so I know the difference between performing it and not performing it. I can yield better results by reflective meditation as you may call it. And I read Quran basically every day and I study it every day, so it is not like I never think of my Creator, Rabb, Father or whatever name you give your Foundation.
The results of my ascension even while not performing salat had given me great faith and security, and I am not dishonest to the revelations of Allah either, which contain no command of any prayer ritual, at all. However, careful reflection and pondering is nearly commanded or at least recommended in the Scriptures and why Quran contains so many allegories more than lawmaking.
Have faith
-
Very interesting discussion gentlemen.
Thank you!group
-
Harmony be with you shogun,
Then it is talking about voluntary meditation, concentration exercises and not a (religious) ritual, for in which meditation you seek spiritual clarity, and perhaps affinity with it, if you define it like that. Meditation of course means different things to those who perform it, but it basically comes down to the aim of spiritual harmony.
Rituals in religion on the other hand are performed to subdue and please the deity in question and not originally really to grow spiritually. It is a prescribed or even dogmatically enforced rule of that respective sect.
Arman's reasoning in this thread are basically attempts at finding an excuse for rituals while there are clear differences between various ritual types. I said one may observe a ritual if that is their desire, however they shall know that 'Allah' has never prescribed any religious ritual and it is questionable whether it is on a spiritual level any beneficial effect from it except being a placebo effect (wiki search placebo if you do not know the term). That means as long as I can gain the same placebo effect I can do any kind of ritual such as plain meditation or I could even give charity and gain the same effect with faith that it will yield the same result.
Personally, as a personal preference, I do my "ritual" of spiritual growth/clarity by silent reflection and tinkering upon existence and reevaluation of my very being constantly, and if there is something I am wrong about or if there is any new abstract thinking I can gain more clarity in.
I was also an adherent for a while to the sectarian salat in my ignorance so I know the difference between performing it and not performing it. I can yield better results by reflective meditation as you may call it. And I read Quran basically every day and I study it every day, so it is not like I never think of my Creator, Rabb, Father or whatever name you give your Foundation.
The results of my ascension even while not performing salat had given me great faith and security, and I am not dishonest to the revelations of Allah either, which contain no command of any prayer ritual, at all. However, careful reflection and pondering is nearly commanded or at least recommended in the Scriptures and why Quran contains so many allegories more than lawmaking.
Have faith
MOF,
Most Rituals helps us.
Do you accept Fasting as a ritual, if yes why do you think we need to do it.?
-
I fast if I show repentance for something or show grief.
Have faith
-
I do not think fasting as a group and at specific time period is without some valid reason. If the age old Arabic calendar system is researched there should some environmental reasons and clues for the same.
People fast for various reasons,
for balancing their body and for health reasons.
fearing animals and insects that spread diseases in specific times.
adapting to the weather
as penance. -
Hajj is not a ritual. You go only once.
-
It got me thinking. When we are in grief, we are automatically fasting. Its natural is not it? But of course I dont think fasting a whole month is written on our instinct.
Yes. And when we repent for something bad that we did we are also in grief. If you have not done something bad and in problem then you can clearly show you feel bad about something and then you fast and you call upon the Rabb.
Have faith