Bakka/Mecca
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funny thing is first official biography of key figure(muhammad) comes in market after 170 years from the date of his death. (why) ?
Because by that time the Abbasid Empire need to invent a religion to unite and control it's populace.
It seems strange that some people thought that the House built by Iebra'heim and Iesma'eile is not the one which exists in Mecca but it was another one.
It seems strange that people could believe Abraham built a structure in Mecca and mandated everyone within his clan to annually go there.
That is if it's the same Abraham as Abraham whose remain supposedly being buried in Hebron.The (straight line) distance from Hebron to Mecca is 1250 KM.
The terrain is unforgivable, passing through the arid desert, thus one need to carry their own logistics from home, no chance of resupplying at rest area or nearest 7 eleven.Given there were no airplane, fast train or car, the only viable means of transportation is by walking leveraging mule or camel to carry burden of baggage of logistics. At maximum speed it's 5 KM / hour.
By assuming 8 hours per day of walking, per day it's 40 KM of distance.
Thus it need around at least 31 days of dangerous travel to go one way and another 31 days of dangerous travel back home.
If the entire clan need to go there every year, they lost at least 2 months a year just for pilgrimage.
Not to mention the perils of raid and robber invading their home while they're away for 2 months..This annual 'ritual' of pilgrimage will be suicidal for the entire clan..
Plus there aren't any record of such massive travel happened anyway...
Choosing another location nearby for annual meetup is much smarter and realistic decision...
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Because by that time the Abbasid Empire need to invent a religion to unite and control it's populace.
It seems strange that people could believe Abraham built a structure in Mecca and mandated everyone within his clan to annually go there.
That is if it's the same Abraham as Abraham whose remain supposedly being buried in Hebron.The (straight line) distance from Hebron to Mecca is 1250 KM.
The terrain is unforgivable, passing through the arid desert, thus one need to carry their own logistics from home, no chance of resupplying at rest area or nearest 7 eleven.Given there were no airplane, fast train or car, the only viable means of transportation is by walking leveraging mule or camel to carry burden of baggage of logistics. At maximum speed it's 5 KM / hour.
By assuming 8 hours per day of walking, per day it's 40 KM of distance.
Thus it need around at least 31 days of dangerous travel to go one way and another 31 days of dangerous travel back home.
If the entire clan need to go there every year, they lost at least 2 months a year just for pilgrimage.
Not to mention the perils of raid and robber invading their home while they're away for 2 months..This annual 'ritual' of pilgrimage will be suicidal for the entire clan..
Plus there aren't any record of such massive travel happened anyway...
Choosing another location nearby for annual meetup is much smarter and realistic decision...
All valid points brother. In addition, if Abraham (as) created the first temple at Mecca, how come there is no mention of any succeeding Prophets performing pilgrimage to there? David (as), Moses (as), Jesus (as), etc.
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The Black stone has never been analysed with modern scientific techniques and its origins remain the subject of speculation.
MYSTERY upon mystery.
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Because by that time the Abbasid Empire need to invent a religion to unite and control it's populace.
what had been happening before ABBASID empire was more shocking started from(first fitna) and then so on.
history is filled with BLOOD and myths. -
All valid points brother. In addition, if Abraham (as) created the first temple at Mecca, how come there is no mention of any succeeding Prophets performing pilgrimage to there? David (as), Moses (as), Jesus (as), etc.
There is no mention "of any succeeding Prophets performing pilgrimage to there? David (as), Moses (as), Jesus (as), etc.".
There is no mention of them either performing any such pilgrimage anywhere else.
Salaam
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All valid points brother. In addition, if Abraham (as) created the first temple at Mecca, how come there is no mention of any succeeding Prophets performing pilgrimage to there? David (as), Moses (as), Jesus (as), etc.
Abraham Could Not Built The First Temple
Abraham lived around 1600-2000 BC. If he built a temple then definitely it is not the first or oldest temple that mankind around the globe has built. There's G?bekli Tepe in Anatolia which was built around 8000 BC (Stone Age) and nearby Hebron there's Baalbek complex in Beqa valley with first megalitic foundation built around 4000 BC. And given Abe was natively a Mesopotamian he has witnessed many other temple during his lifetime spread around Tigris and Eufrat river.
So Abraham built the first temple is definitely a myth..
If he indeed built a temple it will not be the oldest temple / first temple.David, Jesus, Moses
There are records which indicate David and Jesus attended festivity / gathering events in Jerusalem.
While for Moses probably he attended festivity / gathering events in Egypt during his youth, while the legend of Exodus told stories he built a mobile makeshift temple during the wandering. I clearly state that the stories of exodus is still a legend as there isn't any archaeological artifacts / evidence to support that such massive events ever took place. Thus cannot be proven yet cannot be disproven also.Holy Places Around The World
But if one observe the human culture / tradition around the world, each tribe / clan / group usually have their own designated place for gathering / festival / meetup events. And all need to fit mandatory criteria of accessibility it should be nearby their dwelling place, maximum 2-3 days of travel.
Native american, for example each clan / tribe have their own designated place for meetup.. thus in USA alone there are more than 100 of such holy places. It doesn't make sense for Apache clan to gather at Hudson river 2000 Km away or at Yucatan 1600 Km away. Yucatan is holy place for the Mayan as they live nearby but nor for the Apachians...
The same thing consistently applied around the globe; The greeks gathered up at Mount Olympus, the Japanese at Mount Fuji, the Javans at Borobudur (This specific case is interesting, but more on that later), The mesopotamian at Tigris Eufrat river and so on and so on....
Summary
Thus there isn't any place defined as 'one and truest holy place' and all humankind must go there or else God will be angry.
Could Mekka be holy place of the nearby tribes? Yes it could be..
Could Ghamadan or Dhul Khalasa in Yemen be holy place of the of the nearby tribes? Yes it could be..
As such there are similar structure of Ghamadan and Dhul Khalasa in Yemen with Kaba in MeccaBut.. Why?
An intriguing questions is actually
Why they need to make a claim that the cube structure in Mecca was built by Abraham?
And they even expand the claim to include that such place was actually designated by Adam???
What is their motivation? what is their objective? -
Salam!
Here is what I think
The First House for human beings was constructed by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, which is the Earth where all enjoyment and provisions are created for rhem. Its ceiling is constructed without pillars and the Lord is established upon its Roof/Throne . This is your Qibla and this is the Truth. Although He, the god, is near than our life vessels still He is established on . Turn your faces towards His throne. Iblis is to attack humans from their front, back, left and right so they need to protect themselves by calling upon God who is the Best Protector. (there is no need of a physical walled house/city to avoid evil). Reflect upon his signs and make sure that He is the only one who can save you from evil. Be obedient to Him and don't do wrong to have His mercy. If you think that you have done something wrong then weep and seek forgiveness and weep/cry as much as you can in order to get His attention and mercy . He will accept your repentence . He will guide you through His messages regarding the right and straight path of living this temporary worldly life . Everyone who calls upon Him only is your brother/sister and member of the House/Family . Ibrahim AS accepted these rules of the House and preached the same.
Note 1 If you are looking for a physical House/ then be sure that the first inhabited walled city was in Jericho in order to protect inhabitants and travellers to be safe from physical dangers like wild animals, lootees, enemies, etc. The second walled city buult by Jews was probably at Jerusalem. Letter means a boundary wall with an entrance/gate.
Note 2 If you are looking for a physical garden where Adam and Eve lived then look for it in Florida. A lot of links point towards Florida/North America.Peace!
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Salaam All,
Here is another possible rendering of 2158'Inna A-af Wa Al-Marwata Min Sha
'iri Allhi Faman ajja Al-Bayta 'Aw Atamara Fal JunaAlayhi 'An Yaawwafa Bihim Wa Man Taawwaa Khayran Fa'inna Allha Shkirun `AlmunIndeed, the stone and the rock outcropping are among the symbols of God. So whoever makes Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, or is merely passing through, commits no error should he traverse them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Thankful, Knowledgeable.
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/roots/Sad-Fa-Waw.html?fbclid=IwAR2LRRQWS1lTZA4waBvFTz2iF9bJnzvMqCnuemjVdPDRkH68o6qutuuEgsk
This seems to fit more in line with Jerusalem. Any thoughts?
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I have been researching Dan Gibson's theory about Petra and Mecca. Could it be possible that the Mecca of today is not the Mecca of the Prophet (S) and the Mecca mentioned in the Qur'an? If Mecca was such a important and significant city, how come it doesn't appear on any maps until the 7th or 8th centuries respectively?
I just came across Dan Gibson's YouTube channel yesterday and have watched 2/3 of his videos already. I am practically speechless I am so shocked at what he's revealed. I went from thinking Sam Gerrans was crazy for making a video saying Muhammad was not from Mecca to watching Dan's work to 100% believing the Petra is the real Bacca theory in less than 24hrs. I'm still kind of in shock actually. Just how much have we been lied to???
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I just came across Dan Gibson's YouTube channel yesterday and have watched 2/3 of his videos already. I am practically speechless I am so shocked at what he's revealed. I went from thinking Sam Gerrans was crazy for making a video saying Muhammad was not from Mecca to watching Dan's work to 100% believing the Petra is the real Bacca theory in less than 24hrs. I'm still kind of in shock actually. Just how much have we been lied to???
Salam Jane,
ISLAM at the time of the prophet was not a term to designate a religion and also to be a proper name BUT to express a RELATIONSHIP between man and god and so between man..
This transformation "ISLAM-RELATION" into "ISLAM-RELIGION" involved a number of changes starting with a distortion of the meaning of important words from the Quran.
Try this exercice make a board and try to compare these 3 cities to see which one best fit the Qur'anic criterias "Modern Mecca", "Jérusalem" and "Petra". You will be surprise..After you have archeological facts or textual facts to make your opinion.- Why people had adopted, after the death of Muhammad (peace be upon him), very quickly (Following the tradition) the changing from a luni-solar calendar to a lunar calendar ?
- Why the term RIBA means for the big majority of the "Muslims" "interest rate" unlike in the quran ? etc..These answers are in the quran himself.
NB It permits us to better understand the passage of surah Al-Kahf from ayats 1892 to 1896..
Peace
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Salam
I agree Islam is The Faith and what is taught is not.
I've already been comparing the different possible Meccas.
I'm 99% convinced Valley Of Bacca is modern day Petra. Jerusalem is as nonsensical as Mecca, S.A. IMO.
Abraham was never hanging around in the vast Arabian desert never mind further than that. I think the southeast Arabia is the real Holy Land theory is just wishful thinking IMO. The Irish used to believe they were the lost tribes of Israel. The Holy Land is the Fertile Crescent. Plus maybe Medina.
Mecca cannot be Jerusalem though. Abraham was in Sumer then in Canaan and sent Ishmael to Bacca (Petra). The Qur'an says Ishmael's descendants grew up in an uncultivated valley so Muhammad can't have come from Jerusalem or anywhere near it.
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peace all,
Over the years my studies have led me to think the specific/original location is not relevant anymore and that is why we struggle to pinpoint its location with certainty. This is deliberate and part of God's plan. Having a specific/set location would make people automatically assign sacredness to that location (and its relics) which would go against the message of Quran (i.e. against object worship, holy locations etc). I briefly discuss this here with references.
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peace all,
Over the years my studies have led me to think the specific/original location is not relevant anymore and that is why we struggle to pinpoint its location with certainty. This is deliberate and part of God's plan. Having a specific/set location would make people automatically assign sacredness to that location (and its relics) which would go against the message of Quran (i.e. against object worship, holy locations etc). I briefly discuss this here with references.
Peace Wakas,
I went on your link- haven't read it yet but it says 'Not secure'...why's that?
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Peace Wakas,
I went on your link- haven't read it yet but it says 'Not secure'...why's that?
Google Chrome recently updated the way its browser identifies/displays website security status (I think last year). It just means the website does not have its own security certificate to verify it is the genuine/correct website and secure the data you input in it. For static pages where you dont input any data it's no big deal. You can even disable this setting in chrome if you want. In reality the chances of a website domain being spoofed/hacked is very low. I've personally never encountered it and usually only happens if one visits unknown links found in spam emails etc.
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Salam All
If the search for a "holy land" or Bacca, must continue, should you not start with the place where Nabi Musa was speaking to Allah and told to take off his footwear because he was standing on Wadi Al Quds ? To me, every inch of Allah's earth is holy and sacred. Just imagine the 2nd class believers who could not afford to travel to the so called holy land, there must be billions of them in the pasts and present.
Peace
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Google Chrome recently updated the way its browser identifies/displays website security status (I think last year). It just means the website does not have its own security certificate to verify it is the genuine/correct website and secure the data you input in it. For static pages where you dont input any data it's no big deal. You can even disable this setting in chrome if you want. In reality the chances of a website domain being spoofed/hacked is very low. I've personally never encountered it and usually only happens if one visits unknown links found in spam emails etc.
Thanks for replying. So hopefully it will be secure then (not that I think you're a hacker but you know, just making sure why it said not secure).
