I Need Information Concerning Shari'ah
-
SALAAM!
Hi, Am writing on the adversities of Shari'ah. I find this of special importance as discovering the dark side of Shari'ah opened my eyes to the corruption of mainstream Islam, convincing me that the Qur'an is the sole divine text in pristine Islam.
Therefore, what do you feel are the adversities of Shari'ah, point out the fallacies of Shari'ah proponents and provide your answers with logical and scriptural proofs if necessary.
I await your prompt contributions. Thank You.
-
If it is academic you will probably need solid edu kind of sources. Here is one that has most answers to your questionhttp//www.upenn.edu/emeritus/events/IslamicLaw.pdf
But with all honestly, Sharia fully is in violation of the following verse
There shall be no compulsion in the religion. 2256But here are some fallacies that I found about the laws
-
Thief punishment Quran says cut off "hands" of the thief. We do know that Sharia lovers take it literally and that the actual meaning of "hands" here is ability. But here is the funny thing, they don't even accept the wrong meaning fully. They cut off just one hand of the thief whereas the verse tells cut off both the hands.
-
Stoning adulterers No matter how much they say Quran verse is abrogated by bukhari's hadith book on punishment about adulterer, the truth is that stoning according to Bukhari came from monkeys. It was witnessed by Mr Amr Bin Maimun in Yemen and not Prophet. To make things worse, it happened before Islam came D
-
Sharia's meaning "divine law" exists only in modern Arabic language.
-
-
It does not mean cut at all, sister reel. It means something like pacify in Quran, and if you ask me the passage says that you show stop the criminal. It is like saying unfree the thief's hands.
If hadith says something else they were ignorant in understanding Quran, like with pretty much everything else.
Most non-Muslim countries already do this as part of their law, i.e. give imprisonment to thieves.
Have faith
-
If it is academic you will probably need solid edu kind of sources. Here is one that has most answers to your question http//www.upenn.edu/emeritus/events/IslamicLaw.pdf
But with all honestly, Sharia fully is in violation of the following verse
There shall be no compulsion in the religion. 2256But here are some fallacies that I found about the laws
-
Thief punishment Quran says cut off "hands" of the thief. We do know that Sharia lovers take it literally and that the actual meaning of "hands" here is ability. But here is the funny thing, they don't even accept the wrong meaning fully. They cut off just one hand of the thief whereas the verse tells cut off both the hands.
-
Stoning adulterers No matter how much they say Quran verse is abrogated by bukhari's hadith book on punishment about adulterer, the truth is that stoning according to Bukhari came from monkeys. It was witnessed by Mr Amr Bin Maimun in Yemen and not Prophet. To make things worse, it happened before Islam came D
-
Sharia's meaning "divine law" exists only in modern Arabic language.
Thank you. I will go through the pdf. By the way what are your opinions on blasphemy(defamation & desecration) laws effected in Shari'ah states.
-
-
It does not mean cut at all, sister reel. It means something like pacify in Quran, and if you ask me the passage says that you show stop the criminal. It is like saying unfree the thief's hands.
If hadith says something else they were ignorant in understanding Quran, like with pretty much everything else.
Most non-Muslim countries already do this as part of their law, i.e. give imprisonment to thieves.
Have faith
Well said. Man Of Faith, can discuss your position regarding Religious coersion in Shari'ah. For instance, under this law, a Muslim must pray, if he refuses to pray for 3 days, he is deemed an apostate and killed. Likewise for Zakat. Also Shari'ah prohibit non-Muslims from preaching and proselytism. What is your take on this?
-
Harmony be with you Neptin,
Well said. Man Of Faith, can discuss your position regarding Religious coersion in Shari'ah. For instance, under this law, a Muslim must pray, if he refuses to pray for 3 days, he is deemed an apostate and killed. Likewise for Zakat.
This is true, if you follow the traditional interpretation of Qur'an. If you treat salateh as a practice and a ritual then you should dogmatically and zealously kill those who do not perform it. This is not so however, salateh does not mean prayer whatsoever and refers to behavior, nor does qatal mean kill but exhort.
95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification (zakateh), then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Many traditional Muslims find excuses for the above passage however, but it is quite clear according to me. A Christian could go under this definition. It happens that people argue that those who do not serve Allah serve their egos. You still hear the echoing of these passages about not performing salateh or zakateh.
But there is no mention of killing someone after three days. However, you have this
912 And if they break their oaths after making their pledge, and they challenge the authority of your system; then you may kill the leaders of rejection. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease.
But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith for their oaths are nothing to them that thus they may be restrained.918 The mosques of Allah shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in Allah and the Last Day, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, and fear none (at all) except Allah. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance.
You see the hateful message of Qur'an in the traditional interpretations and translations of it. Yusuf Ali's translation above is adding a word not in the original Arabic though about visiting. Although we can argue what kind of translation he has come up with at all however.
Also Shari'ah prohibit non-Muslims from preaching and proselytism.
Qur'an does not mention anything about this kind of prohibition. And saying everyone is forbidden to preach anything but sectarian Islam is just a way of keeping the strangling grip on the masses. It can be horribly abused this kind of law to apply to anything clerics or scholars do not like or is deemed too controversial.
Have faith
-
Salaam,
-
Death for apostasy in Sharia law.
We know this is against Quran. You can use it. -
Many women issues such as saying 3 times for divorce, while we know there is waiting period in Quran for it, and this 3 times saying is completely against the divorce rule in the scripture. The strict Hijab issue and forcing them. Other such women issues you can use.
-
Slavery under war. We know they have just added the captive in war in the translations when it doesn't exist in Quran in that verse. You can argue what right hand possesses meaning based in Quran. If it means slaves according to them and in Sharia law, then that would mean women will also have slaves because this phrase is also used for women having right hand possesses. I haven't really figured out about this all of this slavery issue, but I know this much. If I am wrong, someone please correct me here.
Stoning is already being said by Reel.
- Blasphemy. Although, I haven't researched much about it, we know God says not to sit with people who mock God's verses until they change the subject, but now they kill people for blasphemy. Mostly it is not even blasphemy, but it is just when a person say anything against a Prophet or even a companion and most they are accused of false charge. Extremist charge him with blasphemy. How come God is fine mocking his verses and his teachings, but these extremist even kill people for so called mocking of companions, etc?
-
-
Peace Neptin,
Well said. Man Of Faith, can discuss your position regarding Religious coersion in Shari'ah. For instance, under this law, a Muslim must pray, if he refuses to pray for 3 days, he is deemed an apostate and killed. Likewise for Zakat. Also Shari'ah prohibit non-Muslims from preaching and proselytism. What is your take on this?
You nearly gave me a heart attack at this religious coercion commandments. Lol. I do not understand how people can be knowledgeable Muslims and yet deny ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban, etc, have anything to do with Islam or the Quran. Sam Harris said earlier these are the groups that are using the most straightforward interpretation of the Quran for many verses (although also contradicting several, but then the total message in the Quran gets to be unclear many a time).
Man of Faith gave quite a good reply at it. If it wasn't for several of his interpretations, and also some people who are more conscious and use reason, I might have quit Islam already. It is painful to come across the multiple verses in the Quran which preach animosity, dogmatism and hate speech many a time.
Surah Al-Anfal and Surah Bara'ah have among the most violent and hate-filled verses. Anybody denying this is denying their conscious and reasoning, I would say. Nearly makes me cry seeing the verses. And seeing Muslims' denial that the Quran does not have anything to do with modern day terrorism of Muslims, or the more famous explanation, have misinterpreted the interpretations of the existing verses.
The excessive repetition on holding the contact prayer and paying the ritual charity would probably give headaches to a person who comprehend more. From these verses itself
82 The believers are those whom, when God is mentioned, their hearts reverence; and when His revelations are recited to them, it increases their faith; and they put their trust in their Lord.
83 They hold the contact prayer, and from Our provisions to them they spend.
84 These are the true believers; they will have grades with their Lord and a forgiveness and a generous provision.
So basically the true believers are those who revere one God, and when his (mixture of good and hate) verses and recited to them, they increase in their faith, and trust God in such verses and prays the contact prayer and gives charity. No mention of good behavior and attitude towards people being mentioned here. If this God you say is not into dogmatism and ritualistic behavior more than good attitude, behavior, and being loving and kind towards other people, I don't know what to say. You can't even snake around such verses, unless you completely change the meaning of some words to fit the context of a truly just God. No wonder applying such verses many of the Muslim countries are backward in their spiritual values and teachings compared to the Western or Scandinavian countries, and on developing their country, because of their excessive focus on ritual behavior and getting to Paradise more than on actual honesty and how to develop good character.
822 The worst creatures with God are the deaf and dumb who do not comprehend.
Yes, and by using reason it gets to be more obvious that such interpretations of the verses, or if they are actual verses, they contain crap which don't have much to do on progression and true justice of a society. I am sorry. I am tired of pretending otherwise that's all.
Peace,
Samira
-
Harmony be with you,
Yes, and by using reason it gets to be more obvious that such interpretations of the verses, or if they are actual verses, they contain crap which don't have much to do on progression and true justice of a society. I am sorry. I am tired of pretending otherwise that's all.
Total honesty is better than pretending it's raining.
The excessive repetition on holding the contact prayer and paying the ritual charity would probably give headaches to a person who comprehend more. From these verses itself
The root of salateh is used 98 times in Qur'an.
Have faith
-
It does not mean cut at all, sister reel. It means something like pacify in Quran, and if you ask me the passage says that you show stop the criminal. It is like saying unfree the thief's hands.
Oh no, you got me wrong bro. I was explaining that cut does not mean truly cutting in the verse. But sharia lovers think so. Yet they dont exactly abide by it fully.
Thank you. I will go through the pdf. By the way what are your opinions on blasphemy(defamation & desecration) laws effected in Shari'ah states.
Actually, there is no blasphemy law if we follow the Quran. Allah tells us that he will take care of the one who leaves Islam. Nowhere he says to humans "Go kill him". I see this kind of law as power abuse. It allows clerics to play God and at the same create fear in Muslims so they dont go against them. Its all about force and nothing else.
-
- Many women issues such as saying 3 times for divorce, while we know there is waiting period in Quran for it, and this 3 times saying is completely against the divorce rule in the scripture. The strict Hijab issue and forcing them. Other such women issues you can use.
Yes, thank you. I was about to get into family issues. I have been researching more and more on this area of Shari'ah. Here are my shocking discoveries;
-
Polygamy, where Qur'an 43 is often invoke to silence any woman against a future co-wife.
-
Divorce, where it is very easy for a woman to be divorced by mere utterance of her husband as you mentioned. A man cannot even be questioned for divorcing his wife. Whereas, a woman has to cross several hurdles to divorce her husband, like meeting a Judge, convincing him to dissolve the marriage, paying a ransom, forfeiting costudy of her Child e.t.c. Please see; Khula
-
Women testimonies generally half of a man, patriachal nature of marriage where women have to submit to husbands kind of like slaves to master.
-
Harmony be with you Neptin,
- Polygamy, where Qur'an 43 is often invoke to silence any woman against a future co-wife.
I do not have any accurate translation of 43, but this passage does not speak of polygamy nor marriage at all. A reason is that the traditional word used, nikkah, does not mean marriage but to be (made) mature. If you wait I will eventually be able to present a translation of 43 and surrounding passages.
The encouragement towards polygamy goes against the elder Hebrew scriptures about a man and a woman should separate from their parents and become as one body. The balance of that one body becomes imbalanced if taking into consideration one man and several wives. The natural balance of birth rate on Earth is almost 50/50 between male and female humans. In a perfect society this would lead to that many men would be without a wife. Is that equity?
Another point as to which there may be benefits of bonding between a male human and a female human is that their gender traits balance each other out, so that they may focus better on their spirituality. This does get very heavy imbalanced if there is only one male human who controls several female humans, since the man will reinforce his male role of domination and thus his fleshly instincts, and hence the women take the female programmed role as a result of this.
The aim in our lives is to separate the spirit from the flesh, and if we indulge in such a way to marry from right to left, then this may severely impair our concentration on spiritual ascension. But I suppose this is not of a concern for a sectarian.
- Divorce, where it is very easy for a woman to be divorced by mere utterance of her husband as you mentioned. A man cannot even be questioned for divorcing his wife. Whereas, a woman has to cross several hurdles to divorce her husband, like meeting a Judge, convincing him to dissolve the marriage, paying a ransom, forfeiting costudy of her Child e.t.c. Please see; Khula
All here is culturally influenced and not from Allah/God. The three times mentioning of "I want to divorce" is just making fun of God and women, when one associates it with God. It shows how its fabricator and interpreter is misogynist and not at all thinking of women's well-being. It sounds like as if a child had come up with the idea that if a man says he wants to divorce thrice, then it is a valid divorce. It may have its basis in misinterpretation of where it speaks of that a divorce is permanent if divorce three times unless the woman divorces another man first before coming back.
This talk about marrying and divorcing back and forth shows a mentality where a man can just play around with women like toys. Sometimes you wonder if it was a five-year-old boy who was having fun with his imagination in a patriarchal environment.
Women are treated as having inferior intellect and hence the law is making it harder for a woman since she is regarded as not thinking clearly and with an immature mind, so these are reasons why they create a hurdle. If you oppress someone, disregarding gender, this person is prone to have their esteem and confidence degraded, so many humans become very submissive, draw back and not willing to take space. Since women's role has often been reinforced for centuries in a similar manner, many women take a submissive role by default, because stereotypical gender roles are hard to erase, particularly if you have a religious scripture encouraging the behavior or a community rewarding the behavior. It is much about psychology.
Women were further degraded early because of the narration of the alleged heavenly events since it was written that Adam's wife Eve caused Adam to sin and the woman kind was doomed to be submissive to men.
- Women testimonies generally half of a man, patriachal nature of marriage where women have to submit to husbands kind of like slaves to master.
That is just imagination, and a wishful interpretation of Qur'an. It is an improvement though, the Jews used to not accept female testimony at all. Sadly it is reinforced because Qur'an is claimed to say that female testimony is worth half that of men.
Have faith
-
Hi, Am writing on the adversities of Shari'ah. I find this of special importance as discovering the dark side of Shari'ah opened my eyes to the corruption of mainstream Islam, convincing me that the Qur'an is the sole divine text in pristine Islam.
Therefore, what do you feel are the adversities of Shari'ah, point out the fallacies of Shari'ah proponents and provide your answers with logical and scriptural proofs if necessary.
Proposition
a. Sharia is God's Law
b. God is All Powerful and in control of everything.
c. We must strive for the enforcement of Sharia's Law, even if it cost us our lives (suicidal)By substituting (a) into (c) we get
d. We must strive for the enforcement of God's law, even if it cost us our lives (suicidal)Which implies
e. If we don't strive for the enforcement of God's law, God's law will not be enforceable..Which further implies
f. God is not All Powerful and in control of everything, because he need human help to enforce His law.Thus raises question of
g. If Sharia is truly God's law, why we need to strive for it's enforcement????? Shouldn't God's law be automatically enforced? -
Proposition
a. Sharia is God's Law
b. God is All Powerful and in control of everything.
c. We must strive for the enforcement of Sharia's Law, even if it cost us our lives (suicidal)By substituting (a) into (c) we get
d. We must strive for the enforcement of God's law, even if it cost us our lives (suicidal)Which implies
e. If we don't strive for the enforcement of God's law, God's law will not be enforceable..Which further implies
f. God is not All Powerful and in control of everything, because he need human help to enforce His law.Thus raises question of
g. If Sharia is truly God's law, why we need to strive for it's enforcement????? Shouldn't God's law be automatically enforced?The above is only but fallacies , Words play , twisting the meanings and more.
What he is refering to is physical "Law " so
Do not mix physical "Law" with Shari'ah ( social "law"
The "Shari'ah" as it is evident from the Qur'aan has been seted up and sent by Alaah and every community has free Will to establish it or not , the community choice to establish or not the Shari'ah Will In no way affect Alaah Being All powerfull simply because Alaah do not force anyone To establish it , as it is a test to them , if he force it's application there will be no longer a free choice .
In the contrary the physical law has been seted up and preserved by Alaah for all beings ( Taskhyir ) it does not need to be enforced by humains as it is already enforced controled and preserved .