explain please if can !
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Peace drfazl,
Music has no constructive purpose for it is intoxication that causes sluggishness and drunk-state and thus making one a lesser being than a human at that point of time.
Sounds convincing, but this is supported by what? Your insight?
It was not connotation nor suggestion nor idea - but the truth itself. Music causes deathward attitude, like committing suicide unknowingly. He music addict does not even know he is committing slow suicide. A tragedy!
Some structured arguments would be nice, rather than clergy-like rantings. It isn't the "truth" just because you say so. Looking forward to some well-constructed thoughts.
Peace,
TayHere is an ayat for us all to ponder
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Nay, they charge with falsehood that whose knowledge they cannot comprehend, even before the elucidation thereof hath reached them thus did those before them make charges of falsehood but see what was the end of those who did wrong! -
TAJ,
Do you attribute the rhythm of heavens and earth and everything in between to the Praising of the Purity of Allah ?-
Praising of the Purity of Allah!!!
What are you saying, drfazl!? Where did you get that from!?
Among Allah's names are
Al Quddus, Al Subhan Please refer the meanings here.I will ask you again From what book are you reading? For in the whole Quran, never the word Al Subhan was a name of Allah!
Allah is beyond purity.
Purity emanates from HIM. Please explain what is beyond purity but before explaining what is beyond purity, say what you meant by purity.
Subhana Allah! You are the one who used it! Ask yourself what it means!
Allah is the CREATOR of purity. If you are lacking words then use the words that Allah Subhanahu taught us in the Quran! Use the word Tasbeeh (Tasbee7), which has no equivalent in any other language than Arabic.
Pure arabic chauvinism.
HOFF! That much! shock
He is not the creator of purity.
Is He not!!!??? Then who is!?
He is PURE, Subhan, Quddus by Himself.
So you are now selling the word pure as a name for Allah by putting it side by side with Subhana and Quddoos, when Subhana is not even a name of Allah to begin with!
If other languages do not have the equivalent of the arabic word, then you say one cannot call HIM or Praise Him with any of His attributes in any language other than arabic.
Now where did I say that!!!???
Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.Do you have evidence for the same in Quran? Did you ever ponder and recite to yourself that it is Allah who created all the languages? Is it not blasphemy to deny and denigrate the languages created by Allah
And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours verily in that are Signs for those who know.
How can I or anyone with minimum knowlege of Quran deny that languages are the creation of Allah? You are aiming to create Fitnah.ou say People making music from their own hands; trying to instill enticement called 'rhythm'; to attract mental attention of the succumbing people from the reality and make them submerged into falsehood.
Falsehood can't be the intention of all.
Half-hearted answer, this. I am not talking about the people who make music. I am speaking of the inherent evil of the music itself.That is your own judgment which I happen to disagree with.
Further, are the visions from within us? Or they fill us up coming into us as if aliens from far off places?
Aliens!!!Poor! Wherefrom?
Poor! Thanks. That would make us two, Moses and I!
So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade, and said"O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou dost send me!"
The exact word in the Quran that gives the meaning of Poor is Faqeer. Why didn't the translators use Poor!? 'In desperate need' will do!Whereas all that are created are made to submit to man's soul.
To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost
I think you are a hadith man.shock
No wonder why you talk like this. You may claim you know arabic. But I only pity you for allah says Quran is for those who ponder over the ayats. When you reflect and ponder on the verses it is universal language. It is Allah who teaches you. Not your arabic and your dictionary or grammar.
Subhana Allah! Allah chose to talk to us in Arabic. You yourself needed people who knew/know Arabic to translate the Quran for you, so why is all that Ju7ood!? shock
This Book is for those who fear Allah and not for those who knew arabic. I am sorry for you. You lost yourself when you denied the 31 20, for lack of understanding and for want of deep reflecting over the ayat. It is Allah that teaches you when you have differences in opinion, for they are secret words and verses having the meanings only Allah knows.
You should tell that to yourself instead of teaching us where the Rooh is, something that Allah didn't teach to anyone!!!He teaches to who He wishes. And Allah is not arabic chauvinist. He knows All Languages! What a denier you are! I ditch arabic for you said arabic is holy, very unmindful!
You ditch Arabic!? And I didn't even say that Arabic is holy! At least show some respect to Allah's choice!
A straight forward case of blasphemy. Quran is given to those who are illiterate not to the arabic scholars.
How good you are at creating false cases! Who said that the Quran is given to those who are illiterate!? And why do you exclude Arabic scholars!? Those Arabic scholars actually became scholars because of the Quran. No one can call himself an Arabic scholar without studying and learning the language of the Quran, which is the highest level ever of Arabic.
The prophet himself was unlettered.
Was he really!? Well, it is a good thing that you actually believe in Prophet Muhammad (P&PBUH).
Thus the quran was Allah's language, easy to translate
Easy to translate!!! That is easy for you to say! I wonder if you have tried to translate a word of the Quran!
and clear to explain
For a certain extent, yes.and above all it is Allah who teaches Quran.
Not when you ditch the Arabic Quran! Or those who keep learning Arabic all their lives to translate the Quran for you! Very ungrateful of you!Soul is in the heart.
And who said that!?
Subhana Allah!Have they such a knowledge of the secret things that they can write them down?
Who taught you to deny this Hikmath of Allah?
Your arabic chauvinism? Astaghfirullah!
Hadiths definitely has a toll on you!I really caught you with this one!
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He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses of HIKMATH; they are the foundation of the Book others are known only to Allah. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is with Allah alone, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.So you consider yourself a man of understanding!
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It is He Who has taught the Qur'an. He has created man; He taught him the BAYANPlease! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!
shock Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???
What I said and meant was this If you didn't know Arabic and had to depend on the translators to work for you, instead of you working for yourself, you could very possibly lose a lot of the true meanings of the Quran, naturally. But if you learn Arabic it will not be easy on others to pass their own opinions/judgments of the words of the Quran on to you as the word of Allah. Learning Arabic will make you well-equipped, especially if you are truly someone who is really a Truth seeker.
As far as man is concerned there is nothing far off, but within HIS command by the Leave of Allah, if our rhythm is in praise of Allah with all the creations joining us in HIS PRAISE.
There are too many turns in that paragraph! 'HIS' is for who?
This paragraph is for those who ponder; Poor! Not to the arabic chauvinists!. Hell with the human arabic! -
How soon you forgot? Just a little while ago you accused me of what? Take a look at what you wrote then
Did you ever ponder and recite to yourself that it is Allah who created all the languages? Is it not blasphemy to deny and denigrate the languages created by Allah.
and now look what you have just wrote
Hell with the human arabic!
Now who is cursing the languages, the creation of Allah? What a nerve you've got! oAllah alone shall teach the Quranic arabic.
But you yourself have to work hard to learn it, and, first and formost, respect it!I beleive in the BAYAN of Allah!
Then let us see some results!Taj
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Peace drfazl,
You quoted 1039. A very important ayah, and a very revealing selection.
So what you're saying is your wisdom is far superior to anyone else's, and that you don't need to form coherent, logical arguments in the course of debate. If one cannot make sense out of your gibberish, it must be because they cannot comprehend your masterful insight.
Great. wink
May peace be upon you, and may humility reach you,
Tay -
Peace Ammar,
You asked,
so basically ur saying in simple words that music is not allowed or am i mistaken ??
Music is not allowed according to drfazl, with no logical reason except he has more insight than you and I. But according to the Qur'an, there is absolutely no evidence to support this.
I feel comfortable in saying listen to music to your heart's content, for if it wasn't from Allah, then it wouldn't be beautiful, as all good things come from Allah.
May peace be upon you,
Tay -
Peace,
I can't even believe a debate on whether music is lawful or not is taking place, this seems like something the taliban would debate about. lol I think we should be careful where we tread, and I also believe that we should really be emphasizing the fundamental verses of the book of God, rather than the ones that can have multiple meanings and can be twisted to fit our own desires. Personally, I find no where in this reading that states music is prohibited, and to prohibit it would in my opinion be an invention. I look at music as a beautiful gift from God. This is not to say though that there is no such thing as music being used in a bad way. On my drive to university every day I hear a lot of music that talks about money, girls, and drugs, but thats mainly because of the radio station I choose to listen to. Thus, I've decided that this type of music doesnt really help to raise me onto a higher spiritual level, so I've decided to make a tape with beneficial music to listen to instead. I guess it all depends on what we choose to do with this gift that God has given us.
Peace -
Peace,
Peace, Tay and Taj, I completly agree with your logical, educated and fair reasonings.
I've seen several people in my life who think and believe they're God's gift to humanity and are know-it-all's...little do they know how MUCH God hates the egoisitic maniacs who use baseless arguments and attribute falsehood to God to support their backwards ideas.
Let us join in praising our Lord using truth, justice, common sense and most of all humility. We are NOT God and we have no RIGHT to take God's place by making things unlawful which God has made lawful.
May peace be upon you, and may humility reach you,
How very true P
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peace All,
Sounds are all around us. One may like the sound of the waves rolling into shore or the leaves rustling, these are nature's sounds... just like the voice box of humans. It is clear there is no prohibition of music from al quran. In fact, the reading itself is rhythmical.
However, there are common sense guidelines... for example, do not sit with those who ridicule The God/obligation. This is similar to listening to music which ridicules The God/obligation. Thus, my advice would be not to listen to music which is clearly negative. This leaves a significant degree of individual interpretation and there is nothing wrong with that. When the scales are weighed, each soul shall be given what they have earned.Maintain the wasat/balance.
Wakas
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drfazl Among Allah's names are
Al Quddus, Al Subhan Please refer the meanings here.I will ask you again From what book are you reading? For in the whole Quran, never the word Al Subhan was a name of Allah!
May I ask of you how do you read the Book? With your arabic literacy(human)? Or Arbic/Allah's Hikmath? Do you deny Allah's hikmath is very basic necessity to gain from the Book? How sure you are you have understood the Book, without the help of Hikmath of Allah, for you only rely upon in your lowly language literacy? And this is the reason why you ask "'what book you are reading?" Has Allah mentioned and listed His names? If so, I want the list that Allah has mentioned as His names in the Book you are reading. If you do not give the list containing the names that Allah Himself has listed as His names in the Book, as you claim He has, then, you are overstepping, opting to create a lie by denying one of the Most Beautiful Names, being attributed to Allah. If you say Allah has not listed His names, then you have no business to list them out.
I attrribute Al Subhan to His name due to its beauty and grace. Have you ever read in the Book that most beautiful names/attributes in the heavens and on the earth belong to Allah? If "yes" where did you get the list of 99 names? Is '99 names' atributed to any "neumerology sentiments"? then you are far away from the Quran.
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TAJ
He is not the creator of purity.
Is He not!!!??? Then who is!?
He is PURE by Himslef? Do you deny still?
He is PURE, Subhan, Quddus by Himself.
So you are now selling the word pure as a name for Allah by putting it side by side with Subhana and Quddoos, when Subhana is not even a name of Allah to begin with!
Please answer this post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34684#34684If other languages do not have the equivalent of the arabic word, then you say one cannot call HIM or Praise Him with any of His attributes in any language other than arabic.
Now where did I say that!!!???It means very much that! Never pretend as if you are surprised to hear this!
Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages.
See your fumbling words there! You say Praise all you want; then injecting the hadiths idea matching/meaning etc; and also you say there are no matching words except in arabic; thus indirectly caliming arab speaking people has 'quranic superiority' over non arabic language speaking. wow! What a believer!, Man, Allah knows all languages! He sees your heart not your verbatim and wordiness. Do you agree! Put to hell your arabic literacy. Quran is Allah's Wisdom. you need Hikmath to appreciate in any discussion when Allah's ayats are cited for references.
Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.
Your perception difficutly is overwhelmingly evident there! If it is true, How come the Rasuls of other languages can speak Quran to the people in their respective languages? Have you tumbled on this following ayat ever? Have you pondered to receive the hikmath to understand this? Or just propbed in to the dictionary/grammar of arabic and dismissed this ayat of Allah as unfounded based on your knowledge on Quran? Please mind! Quran is language of Hikmath - for, Muhkamath is the basis to get anywhere near the Quran. quran is not arabic of man.
014.004
We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.Stick to Wisdom and shun the grammar and arabic literacy! Seek wisdom from allah to undersrtand Quran. Do not be among those who are left astray by sticking to human arabic. Please answer!
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TAJ
Do you have evidence for the same in Quran? Did you ever ponder and recite to yourself that it is Allah who created all the languages? Is it not blasphemy to deny and denigrate the languages created by Allah
And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours verily in that are Signs for those who know.
How can I or anyone with minimum knowlege of Quran deny that languages are the creation of Allah? You are aiming to create Fitnah.
Am I? Or are you confused from your own statement? Well prejudiced!
If you say all languages are created by Allah, shall He make some of languages be inferior to some other languages? Where did you read this from? Has Allah ever mentioned in His Book that arabic is unique/trustworthy/superior etc., except that He has said that He had given the Book in clear arabic, simple to understand? So that you can easily translate and ponder over to get the Wisdom of Allah? Pondering is what quran is given for and not for literal reading! To deny this Path is fitna? Or when I try to bring it to light is Fitna? Why do you complicate an otherwise simple easy Quran? A typical Hadiths man you are!
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TAJ
ou say People making music from their own hands; trying to instill enticement called 'rhythm'; to attract mental attention of the succumbing people from the reality and make them submerged into falsehood.
Falsehood can't be the intention of all.
Half-hearted answer, this. I am not talking about the people who make music. I am speaking of the inherent evil of the music itself.That is your own judgment which I happen to disagree with.
Likewise!
Further, are the visions from within us? Or they fill us up coming into us as if aliens from far off places?
Aliens!!!Poor! Wherefrom?
Poor! Thanks.
So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade, and said"O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou dost send me!"
The exact word in the Quran that gives the meaning of Poor is Faqeer. Why didn't the translators use Poor!? 'In desperate need' will do!It is not the exactness in the words; it is rather the exactness in the heart that it perceives by His Leave alone that counts. Translations have no value. What you understand By His Wisdom alone shows you the Straight Path.
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TAJ,
Subhana Allah! Allah chose to talk to us in Arabic. You yourself needed people who knew/know Arabic to translate the Quran for you, so why is all that Ju7ood!? shock
Never use Allah's name so indiscriminately as Subhan Allah.
Allah chose to talk to us in arabic alone? Does not Allah say He knows what is in your hearts. Does HE not say He reveals His wisdom in your hearts and conducts in the Straight Path whom He Wills? Or Does He choose only arabic speaking people to lead arabs alone in the straight path and leave all the rest of the languages speaking world to go astray? Does not Allah say "I am near to you; I answer the prayers of my bondmen, if they call Me" ? Does allah say "I speak only arabic and I answer Arabic speaking people alone"?
Please tell me where did you get from all these weird informations? Hadiths?
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This Book is for those who fear Allah and not for those who knew arabic. I am sorry for you. You lost yourself when you denied the 31 20, for lack of understanding and for want of deep reflecting over the ayat. It is Allah that teaches you when you have differences in opinion, for they are secret words and verses having the meanings only Allah knows.
You should tell that to yourself instead of teaching us where the Rooh is, something that Allah didn't teach to anyone!!!
Again you failed to understand that Allah does not teach to anyone except to those who turn to Him without committing the shirk of associating their scholarship in arabic over Allah's teachings and imparting of Wisdom.
He teaches to who He wishes. And Allah is not arabic chauvinist. He knows All Languages! What a denier you are! I ditch arabic for you said arabic is holy, very unmindful!
You ditch Arabic!? And I didn't even say that Arabic is holy! At least show some respect to Allah's choice!
Yes! You said!! Allah speaks only to arab speaking people. He speaks only in arabic! Allah disrespected all other languages? So one shall never read the translated Book and that amounts to disrespect Allah?? Hmmmm..
No one can call himself an Arabic scholar without studying and learning the language of the Quran, which is the highest level ever of Arabic.
If you respectfully submit that Allah alone is the scholar of his Quran, and none is equivalent to Allah. Will you now humble yourself that there is no scholar in Quran, over the scholar Allah?
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then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost x
Taj Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???
What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?
What I said and meant was this If you didn't know Arabic and had to depend on the translators to work for you, instead of you working for yourself, you could very possibly lose a lot of the true meanings of the Quran, naturally.
Translation is never true meanings as far as the Book Quran is concerned, since its meanings are with Allah. Hikmath is the basis to understand Quran and that grant is from Allah. If you forget this and stay a believer in arabic word by word translation you are a loser!
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To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost x
Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!
Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???
What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?
First
The words in red are your own words which you didn't bring up in your post above. Why do you quote me then you hide your own replies!? Is this your way of fair discussion?Second
If you don't know the difference between- could be lost *
and - you are loser *
then don't waste my time, will you?
Taj
- could be lost *
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Salaam,
Arabic is a human language, whether God utilizes it or not and I do not personally believe that it is special compared to all others, or better. If people cannot bring alhaqq to the people in their language then let others, it is not impossible or even nearly impossible to do such.
Joe
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To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost
Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!
Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???
What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?
The words in red are your own words which you didn't bring up in your post above. Why do you quote me then you hide your own replies!? And you also added the face x when you quoted me, that 'mad' face does not even exist in my original post!!!
Is this your idea of fair discussion?-
could be lost * are my words.
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you are loser * are you own words. Why are you denying what you wrote? You are too ashamed to admit your own words.
And not just that, you go on and insist on your lie! shock
Second
If you don't know the difference between- could be lost *
and - you are loser *
then don't waste my time, will you?
Taj
You mean very well what you meant by those two ways of speaking! Ok, it is time!
Two ways of speaking!!!!????
Taj
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