The Quran objectifies women
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And I said that long before you begun coming to this forum, FreedomStands. It is just that I do not attribute lousy decisions on my Sustainer. Those are from people themselves.
That is also why I am not so fussy about material stuff. I appreciate it if course, but I do not really indulge myself in it and avoid when I can.
I suppose you do not really understand my view of Allah.
Salaam
You just said your view of Allah, I think its more that you might not understand my view, which is explained with strict logic in this post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607144.msg362131#msg362131
I am not saying that what you do wrong is not you doing it, just like the lion eats the gazelle, or the fly lands on the garbage, it is the fly landing on the garbage, it is the lion eating the gazelle and the gazelle trying to get away.
If you read that post and try not to find flaws (and therefor imbuing it with imaginary flaws, phantom flaws) you may see that I am not saying anything particularly different from you or Samira, it is actually you and others who seem to be misunderstanding what I have been presenting which is based strictly on very solid logic as I explain in what I wrote.
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Peace huruf,
Everything that exists outside of God is an illusion, but a DIVINE illusion.
We owe thanks and respect for that illusion, because though it may be an illussion, it is not a lie, it is a truthful "projection" if Gods names.
Thank you for clarifying that your God is a finite God.
My God is an infinite God and NOTHING exists OUTSIDE of that infinite God. The infinite God does not have an outside due to it being infinite.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
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Peace huruf,
Thank you for clarifying that your God is a finite God.
My God is an infinite God and NOTHING exists OUTSIDE of that infinite God. The infinite God does not have an outside due to it being infinite.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
Yeah, I think he may have meant "other than God" but its good of you to notice!
Have you had the time at all to read what I wrote in your thread? I'm glad you made it!
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Peace huruf,
Thank you for clarifying that your God is a finite God.
My God is an infinite God and NOTHING exists OUTSIDE of that infinite God. The infinite God does not have an outside due to it being infinite.
Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you.
Don't be silly, you know perfectly what I mean. If you mean to clarify that then it is ok by me, but a do not think anybody else misaunderstood and you do not need to parade "Your God and may God" stuff. It is not your God, you do not own Him, astaghfirullah. And, of course, I do not need to say that God is the only one who owns anything, and nobody can own Him. So I do not have my God, I am God's, the only One that is, though He brings into existence whatever He pleases, and takes away from existence also whatever He pleases and makes us conceive of things as separate or not of Him.
Other than that, existence and being are two different things.
Salaam
Salaam -
Peace huruf,
Don't be silly, you know perfectly what I mean.
No I don't know perfectly what you mean when our only method of communication is words. I don't have the power of knowing someone else's thoughts and intentions telepathically yet I haven't reached that advanced stage yet and have to go only by words
My sincere suggestion is to be more careful in choosing words to express your thoughts, because otherwise it can cause misunderstandings such as this.
If you mean to clarify that then it is ok by me, but a do not think anybody else misaunderstood
I had no idea that all others here are advanced beings, who have telepathic capabilities! I am not there yet, so I had to clarify
The only way to correctly transmit information to a non telepathic entity is to be careful in what words are chosen.
and you do not need to parade "Your God and may God" stuff. It is not your God, you do not own Him, astaghfirullah. And, of course, I do not need to say that God is the only one who owns anything, and nobody can own Him. So I do not have my God, I am God's, the only One that is, though He brings into existence whatever He pleases, and takes away from existence also whatever He pleases and makes us conceive of things as separate or not of Him.
Thank you for the clarification. Your earlier post made it sound like we had 2 contradictory concepts. I am glad to know that we are on the same page. handshake
There would have been no misunderstanding if instead of saying
Everything that exists outside of God is an illusion, but a DIVINE illusion.
You would have said
"Every physical manifestation of the infinite God is an illusion, which makes us conceive of things as separate from the infinite God".
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
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Even very careful communication can have great difficulty reaching people, it seems like the Tower of Babel situation going on.
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Peace FreedomStands.
Now I can read every word you are writing. I even have time to have a cup of tea!
And you have time to make me a cup of tea. Remember it is your turn.
I made you a cup of tea in that other thread, did you enjoy it?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace FreedomStands.
Now I can read every word you are writing. I even have time to have a cup of tea!
And you have time to make me a cup of tea. Remember it is your turn.
I made you a cup of tea in that other thread, did you enjoy it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.haha I did laugh at this post and I have been enjoying this new approach you're taking with me, its very fun and it makes me happy and I deeply appreciate the relief of laughing. Thank you! Seriously, its super kind of you!
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Hello everyone,
I know that is a controversial sounding name for this topic. I have come across this particular verse and I am finding difficulty in shaking it off. I am curious how you guys would see this verse, which appear misogynous
314 Beautified for people is the love of that which they desire - of women and sons, heaped-up sums of gold and silver, fine branded horses, and cattle and tilled land. That is the enjoyment of worldly life, but Allah has with Him the best return.
The word 'Nas' is translated normally as 'mankind' or 'people'. And here it says that in PEOPLE itself they have been given the desire of WOMEN. I thought women were supposed to be people as well? Hence we women are being regarded as not even people in this case, but like cattle, or as property, for men who are apparently the real people. That's a serious objectification regarding women, or is a blatant error, either in the Quran's interpretation or the Arabic text itself.
People sometimes say it is other people's fault for misinterpreting the Quran and creating problems in the world. Looks like the Quran in several places actually approves of their actions as well to an extent. It even looks like many people's messed-up attitude is a direct result from reading the scripture, and coming across such verses. Some embarrassed translators translated 'Nas' as 'men', which is wrong.
I wonder how you guys would translate this verse. In this case both 'Nas' and 'Nisaa', or either one of them, would require a dramatic re-interpretation. Otherwise, the Quran very clearly stated something which objectifies women, since the wording in this verse is as though they are not being part of "real" people. I know it may look simple to casual viewers, and I had never properly glimpsed at it before, but now that I did, it has stuck in my head and disrupted my peace.
Salaam to all.
There is no such such thing "objectifying" woman in Arabic text. For analysis, retrieval of information and understanding a text, first thing to do is segmentation of text into sentences. Please do that and then translate.
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Peace FreedomStands.
Now I can read every word you are writing. I even have time to have a cup of tea!
And you have time to make me a cup of tea. Remember it is your turn.
I made you a cup of tea in that other thread, did you enjoy it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.Haha, I apologize but I won't be able to make a thread of your 2000 posts like I had wished to. I just worked on a version for myself and it was a super painstaking process because of the text limiter for each post! I had originally thought I could just put it all in one post! I wanted to post the full Qur'an with all translations for each verse but that won't likely be possible either! So I'm really sorry about that, but thank you so much for the good humor, I've seriously enjoyed it and it really helped out and bless you for that it is one of the best deeds in my opinion to make people laugh and have a good time!
I will hopefully continue to read all your posts though! I've enjoyed them so far!
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Lets say God sent a book that said women are cows or like cows, what would you do?
Your options would be
To accept it as it seems to be.
To interpret it in such a way that it doesn't seem as bad to you(even if you feel you might be dishonest)
To ignore that specific verse and take the rest that you might like.
To ignore the whole book because of that verse, even though you consider it to be the book of God.
To not consider it the book of God because of that verse.Also, any other options you can think of!
So what would you do if a book that is thought to be the book of God said "women are (like) cows"? Or something you view as being bad?
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I am waiting for this My name is Ted to quote and say in which aya or ayas of the Qur'an he has found the words that he attributes to the Qur'an. He has not done it yet and without a proper quotation it is not possible to discuss anything.
Salaam
Yeah "My Name is Ted" might be working on catching up currently, I saw him reply to some older things just a little while ago, so hopefully he will get to you as well!
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What was the quote? Maybe you could search for anything like that at www.islamawakened.com/quran
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Lets say God sent a book that said women are cows or like cows, what would you do?
Your options would be
To accept it as it seems to be.
To interpret it in such a way that it doesn't seem as bad to you(even if you feel you might be dishonest)
To ignore that specific verse and take the rest that you might like.
To ignore the whole book because of that verse, even though you consider it to be the book of God.
To not consider it the book of God because of that verse.Also, any other options you can think of!
So what would you do if a book that is thought to be the book of God said "women are (like) cows"? Or something you view as being bad?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20A56.gif
They are in attitude like the mammals. Nay, in fact they are rather more indifferent-lost in their selves.Artiodactyls keep regurgitating unmindful of their surroundings.
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http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20A56.gif
They are in attitude like the mammals. Nay, in fact they are rather more indifferent-lost in their selves.Artiodactyls keep regurgitating unmindful of their surroundings.
haha, I remember that one! One of my favorites!
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This world does not exist at all Mr FreedomStands. It is an illusion.
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Who else has been saying that? Me! Thank you! Check out my latest long yarn of a post if you find the time, I'd really appreciate it!
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Everything that exists outside of God is an illusion, but a DIVINE illusion.
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That is right, Allah creates the "illusion" and though it is not the "Eternal Truth" but just the "truth" at any moment, we are alive in it, and part of it, and Allah is the one who has given us life and experience thereby and there is no experience save what Allah creates.
o o o o
First I'd like for the above members to send me your illusion called money. ;D
peace
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Peace Hawk.
I see. That explains why after I get paid , the money is gone .
Thank you for the idea. When I am asked" You have just got paid, where is the money gone"?
I can now answer; " It was an illusion!"
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
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o o o o
First I'd like for the above members to send me your illusion called money. ;D
peace
Haha, the Qur'an English translations use the term illusion or delusion/deception, to refer to the distracting and "transitory" and "fleeting" nature of life. There is nothing "more real" in the sense that this is just an experience of stuff like any other experience of stuff, reception of data, but what "lasts" is considered more "real" and more "true" and God is the Ultimate "Reality" and "Truth" that doesn't change, the essential basis for everything, but changes things freely. In the word delusion, there is the implication of "danger" and "falling into a trap unwittingly".
I don't know why you all are acting like you've never heard this term before in the Qur'an?
5720
Know that the life of the world is only play, and idle talk, and pageantry, and boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children; as the likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandman, but afterward it drieth up and thou seest it turning yellow, then it becometh straw. And in the Hereafter there is grievous punishment, and (also) forgiveness from Allah and His good pleasure, whereas the life of the world is but matter of illusion.alghuroori
3185
Every human being is bound to taste death but only on the Day of Resurrection will you be requited in full - whereupon he that shall be drawn away from the fire and brought into paradise will indeed have gained a triumph for the life of this world is nothing but an enjoyment of illusion.mataAAu alghuroori
Other alternatives are delusion, self-delusion.
6720
Or who is he that will be an army unto you to help you instead of the Beneficent? The disbelievers are in naught but illusion.alkafiroona illa fee ghuroorin
4120
Satan promises them and fills them with false desires and Satan promises them nothing but delusion.alshshaytanu illa ghurooran
This word is different from "sihr".
Lets look it up
Gh-Ra-Ra = deceived, beguiled, inexperienced or ignorant in affairs, act childish, exposed to perdition or destruction without knowing, danger, hazard; deficiency of, imperfect performance of; vain things, vanities
gharra (prf. 3rd. m. sing. assim. V.) beguiled, deluded.
gharrat (prf. 3rd. f. sing. assim. V.) deluded.
yaghrur (imp. 3rd. m. sing. juss.) delude, misgiving.
Laa yaghurran let not deceive.
ghuruur (v. n.) deceiving, guiling.
gharuur the object for which one deceives/deludes/beguiles.gharra vb. (1)
perf. act. 324, 670, 6130, 751, 849, 4535, 5714, 5714, 826
impf. act. 3196, 3133, 3133, 355, 355, 404gharur n.m. 3133, 355, 5714
ghurur n.m. 3185, 4120, 6112, 722, 1764, 3312, 3540, 5720, 6720
and this seems possibly slightly related
Gh-Ra-Waw = to stir up, give rise, rouse, kindle, estrange, incite desire, tempt/seduce/allure, excite, glued, made adhere with, stick/attached, fond, wondered; a certain red dye.
aghra vb. (4)
perf. act. 514
impf. act. 3360
2439
But the Unbelievers,- their deeds are like a mirage in sandy deserts, which the man parched with thirst mistakes for water; until when he comes up to it, he finds it to be nothing But he finds Allah (ever) with him, and Allah will pay him his account and Allah is swift in taking account.
7520
No! But you love the immediate1718
Whoso desireth that (life) which hasteneth away (transitory things), We hasten for him therein what We will for whom We please. And afterward We have appointed for him hell; he will endure the heat thereof, condemned, rejected.1326
Allah amplifies and straitens the means of subsistence for whom He pleases; and they rejoice in this world's life, and this world's life is nothing compared with the hereafter but a temporary enjoyment.5215
Is this magic, or do ye not see?Sihr in that case, which can mean illusion or fakery like the type magicians perform.
Allah's magic is any reality, the creation of everything we are given as input, so there isn't something "more real" in a moment, it is just that some things appear to be "more lasting", otherwise all information is information, or data, or "stuff" of some kind we receive or perceive with our sight, hearing, feeling, taste, and understanding in our current circumstances.