Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace AW,
Nobody said Muharram 1 was the actual date of migration. And it dont have to be either just because it is the 1st month/moon. Umar choose year 622ad cause it was the year the prophet migrated and i dont know what actual month ( or moon) and day the calender started ,only the year. Umar could have decided to start the calender in 1 muharram, 622ad, even thoe the prophet didnt migrate untill the 3rd moon of the year as they say. I dont see whats the big deal.
It is big deal since had Umar decided to make the new moon nearest to the date of the Hijra the start of the new calendar then Muharam 1 would have been 3 months later and the whole calendar would have shifted by 3 months.
And just because muhammad migrated in month( moon) rabi al awal, dont mean rabi alawal has to be called month 1 ( or moon 1); because then the late umar would be calling the 3rd moon the 1st.
He could have called the month where the actual Hijra took place Muharam and made it the first. Unless, you make a baseless assumption that there is something distinctly special about the new moon crescent of Muharam.
The months would be arbitary if rabi al awal was made to be month 1 because the phases of the moon would not be measured right.
How would they not be measured right? Is there anything special about the new moon crescent of Rabi Al-Awal that makes it distinct from the new moon crescent of Muharram?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Guest,
Thanks once again for helping further discredit the traditional timing and for proving that the timing based on the great reading is best.
Data of full moons after summer solstice from 2000-2019
YEAR MONTH TIME (GMT)JULIAN DAY #OF DAYS
2000 July 16 1357 2451742.081 354.048
2001 July 5 1506 2452096.129 354.277
2002 June 24 2145 2452450.406 383.902
2003 July 13 1923 2452834.308 354.657
2004 July 2 1110 2453188.965 354.712
2005 June 22 0415 2453543.677 383.95
2006 July 11 0303 2453927.627 354.449
2007 June 30 1350 2454282.076 383.95
2008 July 18 0800 2454665.883 354.058
2009 July 7 0923 2455019.891 354.09
2010 June 26 1132 2455373.981 383.797
2011 July 15 0641 2455757.778 354.51
2012 July 3 1854 2456112.288 354.696
2013 June 23 1134 2456466.982 383.994
2014 July 12 1126 2456850.976 354.622
2015 July 2 0221 2457205.598 383.86
2016 July 19 2259 2457589.458 354.215
2017 July 9 0409 2457943.673 354.032
2018 June 28 0455 2458297.705 383.698
2019 July 16 2140 2458681.403Even if you go for a Million years into the future, you will find that the first full-moon after the summer solstice will always occur within 1-29 days after the summer solstice. It will thus always be in the same season and will never haphazardly move within the year.
I have subtracted the Julian days (2nd moon-1st moon) to get the interval between the summer solstice.
The interval between summer solstices by definition is the number of days between solstices. So your calculation is irrelevant.
Finding 1 None of the solstice interval matches the solar cycle of 365.2xx ? Contradiction
This is false. The interval between solstices, by definition, will always match the solar cycle.
Finding 2 Ayman?s system cannot resolve the fraction within the interval ? contradiction
What fraction? Where did I use a fraction? You are a liar because I never used a fraction and I always count exactly 12 full-moons every single year.
Finding 3 A 8 year cycle can be seen in the above table but the total number of days within the 8 year cycle is not a multiple of solar cycle. The first 8 year cycle gives 2923.945 days which is not equal to 8*365.24 = 2921.92 days ? Contradiction.
Where did I say anything about an 8 year cycle or any number of years cycle? You are lying and building a strawman because you are clearly desperate.
Now let?s see what happens when we don?t count the 13 moon. This is crazy but we will go through the exercise. An absurd theory requires such a fake adjustment.
Eliminating the 13 moon changes the 383.xxx days to the following (top to bottom)
383.902 goes to 354.565
383.95 goes to 354.576
383.95 goes to 354.155
383.797 goes to 354.363
383.994 goes to 354.694
383.86 goes to 354.363
383.698 goes to 354.151
With no 13th moon, we loose 8 year periodicity. And if we add all the years we get 361.233. No connection to solar cycle.
The dilemma is if you keep the 13th moon you come close to satisfying 8 years aggregated solar days (still off by few days). Without the 13th moon you have lunar year.
Therefore, the mother question to the author is where is the connection between solar year and the solstice interval satisfying the condition ?absolutely clear that the year is solar??
Now, will the real author please stand up and answer the question.Your false question simply demonstrates your ignorance of the indisputable fact that by definition the solar cycle is the interval between solstices.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Meteora,
I don't know. Do I look like the god?
I gave an opinion which I am entitled to. Wanna fight? jediSo your opinion is that you don't know what the word "ramadan" means. I would suggest that if you want to add value you should try to find out what something means before discussing it. )
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Meteora,
I said I thought ramadan could be a name without meaning, not that it doesn't have one, and certainly my opinion wasn't that I don't know it's meaning i.e. "my opinion is that I don't know the meaning of ramadan", So...what the hell? laugh
So your opinion is that "ramadan" is a name without meaning and you know its non-existent meaning.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace and Blessings be upon you all,
God does not want you to suffer and couldn't care less how many days you fast. We can't even confirm that shahar means month! Fasting is a universal practise ordained upon all the scriptures. God sent messengers to all Nations (as the Quran says).
If you can fast easily then do so, otherwise just give to the poor (as the quran says) and do not worry about anything. God Loves you.
Peace and Blessings xox
Rida Almansour (Acceptance of the One who will triumph)
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Peace Rami,
Then what have you got to back up your accusation?I can also say that you are an imposter but I would have to produce my evidence for it so its no good repeating Aymans rhetoric, come up with some thing new or shut up.Keep your wondering to yourself I dont need lesson from you at least .Ha ha ha there we go again and at last we know the real identity of this one who would love to see our month of fasting disintegrate. You really thinks I pay any attention to what you have got to say.
peaceYour language is repulsive.
I have no comment.
Peace.
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...are you high?
Don't be rude or I will elektro
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Your language is repulsive.
Peace.
Peace Rami
It was only in response to your abhorrent accusation.
I have no comment.
In that case stay out of this discussion.
However let me give you an example of what I consider truly repulsive Quote from siki on August 25, 2009, 070605 AM
Yes! because the country is plagued with 180 million (minus a few) sunni sectarians, siki
Does this ring a bell? This language is no different from the one used by Hitler, referring to Jews, and I believe no one should harbour such feelings for anyone and that?s why I gave him the Roman Salute in reply.
peace -
Peace,
Quote from Ayman "Hence, the vast majority of people never sees the new-moon crescent and only sees the 1-2 day old crescent"
Ayman says that an error of 1-2 days is possible with new moon based timing system. Since his so called system is better than the new moon timing system, his system must produce an error less than a day.
Quote from Ayman "...This is the simplest and most straightforward method that would generate the least discrepancies no matter how primitive or advanced a society is ......."
In one of his post he cited the full moon date of July 6, 2009 which is in fact an error of more than a day thereby disproving his own system. But that's not the end of it, I am going to show if this system is used by the primitive people they would make an error of 30 days or more.
If you look at the sun rise/set time in the table below, you will find sun rise and sun set times are the same for days 20-22 under June column (0443 & 1937 hrs). What does this means. It means Ayman system cannot pinpoint the longest day accurately. Therefore, it is not a clear marker as he claimed to be. Determination of longest day is critical because the full moon sighting is dependent on it per Ayman theory. We need atomic and quartz timing standard to find the longest day. With the aid of modern technology we know this day to be 21 June of each year. How would the primitive people know when the longest day is? How would have they resolve the minute variation in the length of days around June 21? If they were forced to use Ayman theory, some community would have used June 20, another community would have used June 21, and other communities would have used June 22. The one who used June 20 summer solstice (full moon is also on 20 June) will make an error of 30 days. This is because Ayman's theory does not allow the use of full moon prior to summer solstice i.e. June 20 full moon. Please note that such problem does not exist with the new moon timing system
As a side note, we want Ayman to talk/write as much as possible. Because every time he write he contradicts a fact or his previous writing. Even a child will detect his shortcomings. And we find people (mature?) following him. How sad is that? Ayman, please don't stop writing, we look forward to your contradictory statements. It makes my day. Thank you.
The timing for May and July is provided for comparative purpose only i.e. one can determine the maximum deviation in minutes from one month to other and determine for themselves if primitive people were able to resolve such time deviation.
o , o ,
Location W077 02, N38 53 Rise and Set for the Sun for 2009
Eastern Standard Time U. S. Naval ObservatoryMay June July
Day Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set
h m h m h m h m h m h m
01 0510 1901 0445 1928 0447 1937
02 0509 1902 0444 1928 0447 1937
03 0508 1903 0444 1929 0448 1937
04 0507 1904 0444 1930 0448 1937
05 0505 1905 0443 1930 0449 1937
06 0504 1906 0443 1931 0449 1936
07 0503 1907 0443 1931 0450 1936
08 0502 1908 0443 1932 0451 1936
09 0501 1908 0443 1933 0451 1935
10 0500 1909 0442 1933 0452 1935
11 0459 1910 0442 1934 0452 1935
12 0458 1911 0442 1934 0453 1934
13 0457 1912 0442 1934 0454 1934
14 0456 1913 0442 1935 0455 1933
15 0455 1914 0442 1935 0455 1933
16 0455 1915 0442 1936 0456 1932
17 0454 1916 0442 1936 0457 1931
18 0453 1917 0443 1936 0458 1931
19 0452 1918 0443 1936 0458 1930
20 0451 1918 0443 1937 0459 1929
21 0451 1919 0443 1937 0500 1929
22 0450 1920 0443 1937 0501 1928
23 0449 1921 0444 1937 0502 1927
24 0449 1922 0444 1937 0502 1926
25 0448 1923 0444 1937 0503 1926
26 0448 1923 0445 1937 0504 1925
27 0447 1924 0445 1938 0505 1924
28 0446 1925 0445 1938 0506 1923
29 0446 1926 0446 1937 0507 1922
30 0445 1926 0446 1937 0508 1921
31 0445 1927 0508 1920Add one hour for daylight time, if and when in use.
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Peace Rami
It was only in response to your abhorrent accusation.In that case stay out of this discussion.
However let me give you an example of what I consider truly repulsive Quote from siki on August 25, 2009, 070605 AM
Yes! because the country is plagued with 180 million (minus a few) sunni sectarians, siki
Does this ring a bell? This language is no different from the one used by Hitler, referring to Jews, and I believe no one should harbour such feelings for anyone and thats why I gave him the Roman Salute in reply.
peaceBut seriously what is your astronomical point of reference for Ramadan?
And what is your proof from the Quran?
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But seriously what is your astronomical point of reference for Ramadan?
And what is your proof from the Quran?
Peace Rami,
Read this thread very carefully with open mind and you will get all the answers.
And then bring your evidence for your accusation.
peace