Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Rami,
I have a way to resolve the issue.
A year is a count of 12 lunar cycles.
4 are restricted.
Ramadan is the hottest lunar cycle.
No need for any intercalation, determining solstices or misnomers.
Pure, simple and straightforward.This is actually pretty complicated since now you have to measure temperature first and find the hottest cycle then go back in time and fast it. This also doesn't solve the logical absurdity that results from "shahr" meaning "month" or "cycle" which implies that you would have to witness the month/cycle first and then go back in time and abstain. The ONLY way to resolve this is if "shahr" was an event. There is simply no other way.
On the other hand, the summer solstices are fixed so they are pretty easy to determine using the clear method in 1712. This is the ONLY way to apply 1712. Next, all you would have to do is to count exactly 12 full-moons between solstices as per 936 and skip the occasional 13th full-moon. This effortlessly and automatically adjusts the cycle to match the seasons without relying on corrupt religious authorities who arbitrarily delay and abrogate the hunting restriction as the sectarians do. This is the ONLY and simplest fool-proof way to use the lunar cycle while maintaining it in sync with the seasons.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Everyone,
Please make a note of Ayman's method which is in line with that of the rejectors in 937
Please pay perticular attention to 937 (B) below
A-936. The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous
check all the calculations from Rex and make a note of his question to quickduck page 80 ? Reply #1185 on August 25, 2009, 055646 AM ?
Rex Why forbidden to kill an animal on June 22 in one year and OK to kill same animal until July 20 in a different year?
He again raised that question with Ayman here on page 81 ? Reply #1202 on August 26, 2009, 042940 AM
Rex Again, why forbidden on June 22 one year and OK to kill the animal until July 20 in a different year?
Both ignored this very valid Question which is the core as described in 937.
Now Read 937
B- 937 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; , thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people
peace
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Peace Farida,
A-936. The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous
Now Read 937
B- 937 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year and forbidding it one year so as to circumvent the count that God has made restricted; , thus they make lawful what God made forbidden! Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting peopleRex Why forbidden to kill an animal on June 22 in one year and OK to kill same animal until July 20 in a different year?
Please notice that Rex didn't say "the next year" or "one year and one year" (consecutive years) as 937 says. He said "one" year and a "different" year. He knows that when the full-moon after the summer solstice falls on June 22, the one after it will never be on July 20. It will be approximately on July 10. So it is not an "additional month" every year even according to your false translation of 937. As I have indicated to Rex, even across millions of years the hunting restriction will always still be within the same time frame (early summer-early fall). On the other hand, let?s put your arbitrary sectarian timing to the test using your OWN understanding of 936-37
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The arbitrary sectarian hunting restriction that you and Rex blindly follow is not even four ?months? in blatant violation of 936-37. It is only a few days during your so-called Hajj from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijja and the few days before it when you reach the vicinity of Mecca and do the so-called Ihram. So it is not even a week, let alone a month or four months per your own understanding. So you are hypocritically violating even your OWN understanding.
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Your arbitrary restricted ?months? are months 11, 12, and 1 and then you suddenly haphazardly jump to month 7 (Rajab). This clearly contradicts 95 which confirms that the restricted period is consecutive.
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This is all in addition to the fact that your translation of 936-37 is false. The word nasi? in Arabic doesn?t mean ?month?, it means ?delay? or ?falling behind in something?. This year your restricted four ?months? will be about 21 October - 19 January and then you jump ahead six months to sometimes in June. So it is completely haphazard. Next year they will be just as haphazard and so on. So essentially you are delaying one of the four months and messing up the timing every year and not just one year out of two as the Arabs did at the time 936-37 was revealed. So you are even worse than the rejecters in 937.
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The timing of the restricted four months is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the very wild life it is supposed to protect (which follows the solar cycle).
These are just four examples of your hypocrisy where you quote 936-37 but forget to apply them to yourself. On the other hand, I follow 936 to the letter and count exactly 12 full-moons every single year. This automatically results in 937 not being violated and the hunting restriction always falling in the same timeframe even a million years from now.
It is no wonder that neither you, Rex, Guest, Progressive, or any other hypocrite sectarian will ever be able to answer how your so-called Hajj, which like everything about your mindless system, arbitrarily takes place from 8 to 13 of Dhu Al-Hijjah despite 2189 being absolutely clear that the crescents must be used to time ?hajj?. Here is the question again that you are hypocritically evading and hoping that people forget about
Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".
I guarantee that you will NEVER be able to answer.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
I have regards for you in respect of scholarly research works in matters of Islam.
Please can you tell in a single line how one must abstain when it comes to Shar Ramadhan as per your research and understanding. I have not yet read your article fully and objectively. I'm asking this question to just know your contention in a nutshell.
Is is abstinence only on a full moon day in summer solstice?
Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan
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Peace Vivek,
I have regards for you in respect of scholarly research works in matters of Islam.
Please can you tell in a single line how one must abstain when it comes to Shar Ramadhan as per your research and understanding. I have not yet read your article fully and objectively. I'm asking this question to just know your contention in a nutshell.
Is is abstinence only on a full moon day in summer solstice?Basically, witnessing "shahr ramadhan" means witnessing the scorching full-moon. Per 2184-185, when we witness the scorching full moon we abstain the abstinence for the complete count (10 days) of a few days (3-10 days). The scorching full-moon is the full-moon after the summer solstice. The interval between solstices is how years are determined as per 1712. The lunar cycle is kept in sync with the solar cycle by counting exactly 12 full-moons in the solar year (as per 936). Thus, we would skip the occasional 13th full-moon and this would automatically and effortlessly align the lunar cycle with the solar cycle. It is the perfect system.
I hope this very short summary helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
Please notice that Rex didn't say "the next year" or "one year and one year" (consecutive years) as 937 says. He said "one" year and a "different" year. He knows that when the full-moon after the summer solstice falls on June 22, the one after it will never be on July 20. It will be approximately on July 10. So it is not an "additional month" every year even according to your false translation of 937. As I have indicated to Rex, even across millions of years the hunting restriction will always still be within the same time frame (early summer-early fall). On the other hand, let?s put your arbitrary sectarian timing to the test using your OWN understanding of 936-37
Peace Ayman,
Ok let?s put our timing to the test; Please provide us with YOUR detailed calculations,(no indication or as *) like the recent contributors have done below
Page 68 Eid Abdullah - Reply #1024 on Reply #1005 on August 09, 2009, 123931 AM and Reply #1011 on August 10, 2009, 052759 AM ??AM
Page 68, Guest- Reply #1009 on August 09, 2009, 080345 PM
Page 70 Gues - Reply #1037 on August 16, 2009, 042005 PM ?Disproved your theory
The length of days between July 6, 2009 and June 25, 2010 is 354 days. This is lunar based timing system which does not synch up with the seasons.
Page 76 Rex?s Reply #1136 on August 23, 2009, 015700 PM ? Rolled back calculations for the Muslim(not Islamic) calendar
Page 78 Rex -Reply #1163 on August 24, 2009, 074701 PM ? calculations showing it is Impossible without the sun there cannot be moon phases.
Page 81 Rex?s Reply #1202 on August 26, 2009, 042940 AM ? about your "Hot Moon Fantasy"...
page 84 Guest with his detailed calculation ? Reply #1253 on August 29, 2009, 080443 PM ?
With no 13th moon, we loose 8 year periodicity. And if we add all the years we get 361.233. No connection to solar cycle. Re? Contradiction.
where is the connection between solar year and the solstice interval satisfying the condition ?absolutely clear that the year is solar??-
The arbitrary sectarian hunting restriction that you and Rex blindly follow is not even four ?months? in blatant violation of 936-37. It is only a few days during your so-called Hajj from 8th of Dhu Al-Hijja to 13th of Dhu Al-Hijja and the few days before it when you reach the vicinity of Mecca and do the so-called Ihram. So it is not even a week, let alone a month or four months per your own understanding. So you are hypocritically violating even your OWN understanding
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Your arbitrary restricted ?months? are months 11, 12, and 1 and then you suddenly haphazardly jump to month 7 (Rajab). This clearly contradicts 95 which confirms that the restricted period is consecutive.
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This is all in addition to the fact that your translation of 936-37 is false. The word nasi? in Arabic doesn?t mean ?month?, it means ?delay? or ?falling behind in something?. This year your restricted four ?months? will be about 21 October - 19 January and then you jump ahead six months to sometimes in June. So it is completely haphazard. Next year they will be just as haphazard and so on. So essentially you are delaying one of the four months and messing up the timing every year and not just one year out of two as the Arabs did at the time 936-37 was revealed. So you are even worse than the rejecters in 937.
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The timing of the restricted four months is 100% arbitrary and has nothing to do with the very wild life it is supposed to protect (which follows the solar cycle).
These are just four examples of your hypocrisy where you quote 936-37 but forget to apply them to yourself. On the other hand, I follow 936 to the letter and count exactly 12 full-moons every single year. This automatically results in 937 not being violated and the hunting restriction always falling in the same timeframe even a million years from now.
This is just your opinion we want proof
It is no wonder that neither you, Rex, Guest, Progressive, or any other hypocrite sectarian will ever be able to answer how your so-called Hajj, which like everything about your mindless system, arbitrarily takes place from 8 to 13 of Dhu Al-Hijjah despite 2189 being absolutely clear that the crescents must be used to time ?hajj?. Here is the question again that you are hypocritically evading and hoping that people forget about
Please tell everyone how your traditional arbitrary calendar uses the crescent moons as per 2189 to time the "hajj".
Big and bold writings cannot obscure that this thread is about Ramadan not hajj, fftopic there is another thread going on to discuss hajj etc yes
I guarantee that you will NEVER be able to answer.
Peace,
Ayman
Haven?t we read this many times before, same old same old; here are your recent samples;
- Even if you go for a Million years into the future, you will find that the first full-moon after the summer solstice will always occur within 1-29 days after the summer solstice. It will thus always be in the same season and will never haphazardly move within the year. muscle You will NEVER be able to answer because just like everything else in your manmade useless unintelligent system, your timing for "hajj" is 100% arbitrary and it neither starts nor ends with the crescent..
& I don?t want to go into a million years nor am I going for hajj brickwall
peace
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Peace,
Please notice that Rex didn't say "the next year" or "one year and one year" (consecutive years) as 937 says. He said "one" year and a "different" year. He knows that when the full-moon after the summer solstice falls on June 22, the one after it will never be on July 20. It will be approximately on July 10. So it is not an "additional month" every year even according to your false translation of 937. As I have indicated to Rex, even across millions of years the hunting restriction will always still be within the same time frame (early summer-early fall).
937 But the postponement an increase in the disbelief, those who disbelieved become misguided with it, they permit a year and they forbid a year, to agree to (the) term (that) God prohibited, so they permit what God prohibited, and (the) evil (of) their deeds was beautified for them, and God does not guide the people the disbelieving.
Full Moon Makkah, Saudi Arabia
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2013&n=151
2013 23-Jun 233 PM daytime
2016 20-Jul 157 AM28 days difference end date included
Basically, witnessing "shahr ramadhan" means witnessing the scorching full-moon. Per 2184-185
How do you fast a full moon?
How do you see a full moon with poor vision or if blind?
How do you see a full moon if living in cloudy weather?
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Ayman, you are ignoring my points... (
Nothing new, I guess...There is no more escaping with your childish comments above.
I said
Quote from progressive1993 on Yesterday at 050409 PM
Also, another question for ayman
How can the Quran have been sent down IN a moon?
Just to recap, it actually says "in".. too bad, eh?
2185 The month of Ramadan, is the month in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion...
2185 Shahru ramadana allatheeonzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasiwabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqanThen you said
It is the same as when someone tells you I am sitting in the scorching full moon or in a bright sun or in a cloudy afternoon. This is perfectly normal in regular speech. It doesn't mean that they traveled to the sun and are sitting on its surface!
There you go..you directly answered my question "how can it be reveled IN the MOON of Ramadan." Stop making excuses and baseless accusations like you always do.
Anyways, ayman, just a question
what sounds more logical to you
- The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
or - The Quran was revealed IN THE MOON OF SCORCHING HEAT?
Put the whole Ramadan issue aside - which one sounds more logical to you language-wise?
From submission.org/fasting-bible.html
Jeremiah 366. "Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the Lord in the ears of the people in the Lord's house upon the fasting day and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities." Here we find a definite practice of fasting. The following verses will show that this is not just a day of fasting, but precisely a month. More detail on this day of fasting is given in verse nine "And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem." This is not a special fast proclaimed by a religious ruler, because this particular king was wicked. Nevertheless, he did follow the formality of what was practiced the month of fasting. The time given for this fasting is stated to be the ninth month.
The season of the fast in this particular year, thought by many scholars to be 604 B.C., is stated to be in the winter. Jeremiah 3622, "Now the king sat in the winter house in the ninth month and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him." Now the present Jewish calendar adds a thirteenth month from time to time to match the solar year, so that the ninth month of the civil year (used in the dates of kings' reigns) falls in May or June, summer in Palestine. If we project the lunar calendar presently used in the Middle East back in history, we find that the ninth month falls in November of the year 604 B.C. It appears that during Bible times a purely lunar calendar was used, and the ninth month was a month of fasting.
Indeed, God did not lie when he said
2183 O you who acknowledge, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you that perhaps you may be righteous/aware.
Ayman, do you have any evidence of monotheists having fasted after witnessing the "moon of scorching heat"?? Do you have ANY evidence? I showed you my evidence for the real Ramadan - not the fabricated, one-third "Ramadan" of yours. Are you still going to reject the real Ramadan, and not fast for a full month - not just your lousy 10 days?
To hard to counter/answer?
- The Quran was revelaed IN THE MONTH OF RAMDAN
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Everyone, including the sects and traditionalists are right except Ayman and his "cronies."
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Everyone, including the sects and traditionalists are right except Ayman and his "cronies."
rotfl what makes you say that?
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Peace
So much tension on this thread. Lucky you guys are not in the same room or there will be fireworks voodoo It be nice for everyone to concentrate on writting their own articles for us to read and compare as the thread has become so long now its becoming harder to follow and seems like lots of repeat questions and answers. We need to move forward, there will never be any winners if thats peoples ambition, specially when it comes to belief as people will protect what they have to the end.
Peace
Hope
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Peace
So much tension on this thread. Lucky you guys are not in the same room or there will be fireworks voodoo It be nice for everyone to concentrate on writting their own articles for us to read and compare as the thread has become so long now its becoming harder to follow and seems like lots of repeat questions and answers. We need to move forward, there will never be any winners if thats peoples ambition, specially when it comes to belief as people will protect what they have to the end.
Peace
Hope
Peace
I know that is why sometime its good to have light hearted exchange, but don't worry sensible moderators have been deleting off topic posts.
As for this thread being too long tell me about it. I am on a mission to point out repeated posts so all the hard work done here will not disappear in a black hole.
peace -
Peace
I know that is why sometime its good to have light hearted exchange, but don't worry sensible moderators have been deleting off topic posts.
As for this thread being too long tell me about it. I am on a mission to point out repeated posts so all the hard work done here will not disappear in a black hole.
peacePeace Farida
Might be a good idea to write an article with your views. peace
Peace
Hope