Hot/"ramadan" Answer

ayman

Peace Rami,

I don't understand a logical absurdity in this thread. That is if Aymans theory is false, the traditional theory becomes true.
The question remains, why is Ramadan the ninth month of the count and when does your count begin? When is the beginning of the year?

If you go back to the year 01/01/01 of the sectarian era you will see that it began right after the summer solstice.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Vivek

Why is it 10 days? Why not exactly one day?
Is it because the full-moon appears so for about 10 days to our sight?
Isn't full-moon only for a single day scientifically?
Why is it 3-10 days but not from the 1st day of the full-moon?

Because we are told that the abstinence is for a complete count of a few (3-10) days. The complete count of 3-10 is 10. Also, we are told in 2189 that the crescents are used as timing devices. The time from full-moon to the waning crescent is 10 days. This is the only way that a crescent can be used to time a 10 day period (also for "hajj", which we know it 10 days according to the great reading).

Not only traditional Islam but also major religions(Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism,etc) followed lunar calendar. The solar calendar system is purely a christian concept which all of humanity follow now. Though the Quran mentions both the sun and moon as pointers to the time, considering that all other religions followed lunar calendar, why can't we conclude that Islam too in the time of Muhammad used purely a lunar calendar having nothing to do with solar cycles? I ask this question because I believe all such religions as the revealed ones like Islam and value them all at par.

The question is not about calendars. All calendars are manmade. The god and all his creation use universal timing based on clear cosmic phenomena. Even humans who advocate a purely lunar calendar follow the god?s natural timing based on 1712 and 105 etc. whether they like it or not. If we agree that the great reading points to both the sun and the moon for timing then this is what must be, especially since this is confirmed by empirically verifiable reality.

Got to go catch a plane will reply to others later.

Peace,

Ayman

farida

Salam Farida,
if you happen to take too much caffeine, you need to ease up on it, lol...

Salaam,

That's what I said earlier, the orginal members always come up to derail the subject lol...

the arabs have a big responsibility because the Quran was revealed in their mother tongue, they like it or not,
so they will be doubly accountable, so it is not an enviable position to be in, and for those of them who are rich,
do not think Allah has made them rich because of their origin, but to test them and give them a chance to come back
or finish in ignominy

We all have a responsiblity and you may think they are RICH but, to me they are the poorest of the poor.

Yes the Quran did single out the Arabs, read here

997 The pagan Arabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and more likely to be in ignorance of the
limits (All?h's Commandments and His Legal Laws, etc.) which All?h has revealed to His
Messenger. And All?h is All-Knower, All-Wise.

We have quite a few of them on this thread who do nothing but boast about being Arab.

now are you envious of this lot?
but the realm between Yathrib/Medinah and Petra/Jerusalem contain remnants, relics, forensic evidence that could shed
a lot of light into what we are looking for.
There are universities who get funding to do these things, but they do focus on what they want to find out, just check out e.g.
http//www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/Petra/

now please kindly stop being a drama queen, let us be impartial adults and let not our emotions overtake our spirit, and be truthful
why are you so enraged at Ayman? is it because you perceive he put you down, or for defending the current status quo?
I have my deep disagreements with Ayman and other people, but that does not mean that I completely close the possibility that I might be wrong somewhere.
Here is an example, I do not understand or relate to his interpretation of Jinns, I read his explanations, and I find them fully unsatisfactory, so that is that, nothing more and nothing less.
There is no point in allowing rampant emotions in, matter of fact this is why among other things "muslims" are in such a mighty mess, they are far too emotional, and when it comes with some areas they are entrenched in, one cannot reason with many of them.
If I were Ayman I will lay it to rest too, he made his point, he should leave it to Allah to make the final judgment. Decisions, Prayers, Wishes, Actions, take time to bring things to fruition and we have beautiful examples in the Quran (my favourite one is Joseph, imagine spending years away from his family, then big tribulations when he reaches his twenties (maybe) then 12 years or more in jail, and then more years pass before he is finally re-united with his family and his treacherous brothers (who by the way are all prophets!).
I think a story like this make our little fights much in perspective.

offtopic ignore
God bless.

and our last prayer is Praise be to Allah the Lord of the Worlds!

handshake

peace

Samia

Salaam Samia,

No Samia there is a lot of new stuff on this thread. Ayman?s Mantra having put people like you off is another matter. But the thread is turning into a black hole and, as a result, all the hard work by the other contributors is being swallowed up. It has now come to a stage where I have to give page link as a reference for my posts to draw attention to our hard work.

Salaam farida
As I explained, I was following the thread closely,aka reading, albeit not participating.What new opinions were there? I was not talking about new posts nor new posters. And I was definitely not put off by Ayman's posts.

Salaam Samia,
.I feel so honoured that you like my rendition, however, if only you had paid attention to the top part of my post, you would have noticed that it cited 936 ?The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record.?
I?m surprised that this part of my post did not interest you, despite the fact that this is the core of our belief, when it comes to count in the eyes of God as you rightly said that God does not care what "our year. Therefore no adding or skipping just count 12 *shahr/moon/month,.
*Month Etymology -Reply #1213 on August 27, 2009, 042925 PM page 81 I am sure this too was unnoticed by you

The pleasure is mine )
However, it seems you did not understand my post. I liked your rendition on "sana" and "3aam" as defined by natural events (harvest and flood) not name nor number of days. Same for day (sun/sunrise-sunset - darkness), again no name or number of hours.Then suddenly a month with a name and anumber of days? Only one month? Why didn't we have the name of the month of hajj.

Etymology was of course noticed by me and I think you mentioned it in more than a post.
Even the etymology of month starts with the noun "moon" not crescent.The "th" serves as "relative to/ related to" as in "sixth" for example. It did not start with "crescent", so, as in Arabic, it has nothing to do with crescent nor with number of days.

No offence Samia but, unlike you, I have little interest these hadiths, however if you like to get your hand on a hadith driven dossier, introduced to us by a very interesting character, quickduck, who was trying to convince us (failing miserably) that , the order of months, as per his understanding, has never been always the same. Get your hands on this find on page 84 quickduck?s Reply #1246 on August 28, 2009, 075503 PM I am sure you would love this findings.
As always it?s great to hear from you.

Now it's my turn! You definitely haven't read my post following the one you are quoting almost immediately

Of course you find in "Islamic" literature the story and its opposite. So here is another story about the Islamic calender
It's said that the Islamic calender was set much earlier, from the first year the prophet immigrated, and so it was logical that he started it with "rabee3 -ul-awal first grazing", but Omar changed it to make it start with "mu7arram the restricted month".
In my opinion
Both stories are baseless, and they are just there to give credit to the whole fiasco of a lunar "Islamic" year. Otherwise, if the firs khalif could change the beginning of a calender, thus moving the time of fasting, how much manipulation took place in this calender?
And should we trust it, or trust God and search in His book?

But anyway, I am glad we agree on rejecting hadith and unverified stories. However, my question is How can you prove that a month called Ramadan is what God is talking about? Where did you get it when it was never mentioned in any of the previous scriptures, nor had any other "month" been mentioned before,nor do we have any more information abou its position in the year,its number of days...?
Why would a people call a month (scorching) when it's as scorching as well as cold as any other month?

I just hope that you honestly try to give it a little thought Why are we in a mess every year because no one is able to see the "crescent"? Also think of the night the quraan was descended.The time we are supposed to fast was mainly chosen for this event why start fasting a couple or triple of weeks earlier,and then just guess, if we even think about it, which night is that one better than a thousand moons? Traditioalists do not know it nor care about it tenth as much as they care about the "month of Ramadan". And most of all, why would God link the hajj with crescents and not fasting, yet traditionalists, and unfortunately you, link fasting to crescents and not hajj? You are a lawyer and I expect from a lawyer to start from uncertainty, and work their way forward, not the other way round.

unknownuser

Salaam Samia,

Salaam Eid
First In Arabic there is nothing called "genderless noun". Some nouns may have either gender, and they are very few and well known. Also, in Arabic there is no equivalent to "it". There are only two pronouns "literally" he and she.

Secondly is remembrance not reminder;and it is a feminine noun. Reminder is and it is a masculine noun; as in ( ).
Accordingly, ( /it is but ) refers to a feminine noun. Quraan is not a feminine noun, but masculine.Therefore, this (it's but) cannot refer to it.

Then apply it consistently for every word that refers to Qur'an, are these all masculine?

Kitab Scripture 432/442
Qur?an 5677
Kalam Word 96
Nur Light 4174
Huda Guidance 1057/3132
Rahma Mercy 1057/1058
Furqan The Criterion (of right and wrong) 251
Shifa? Healing 1782
Maw?iza Exhortation 1057
Dhikr Reminder 2150
Karim Noble 5677
?Ali Sublime 4341
Hikma Wisdom 545
Hakim Wise 102
Muhaiman Watcher (i.e., over the previous Scriptures) 548
Mubarak Blessed 3830
Habl Cable (i.e., Allah?s) 3103
as-Sirat al-Mustaqim Straight Path 6153
al-Qiyyam Straight 182
Fasl Conclusive 8613
Naba? Azim The Awful Tidings 782
Ahsan al-Hadith The Fairest of Statements 3923
Tanzil Revelation 26192
Ruh Spirit 4252
Wahy Inspiration 2145
al-Mathani The Oft-Repeated (verses) 1587
?Arabi Arabic 3928
Qawl Word 2851
Basa?ir Clear Indications 4520
Bayan Declaration 3138
?Ilm Knowledge 1337
Haqq True 362
al-Hadi Guide 179
?Ajab Marvelous 721
Tadhkira Admonishment 7454
al-?Urwa al-Wuthqa The Firm Hand-Hold 3122
Mutashabih Consistent 3923
Sidq The Truth 3933
?Adl Justice 6115
Iman Faith 3192
Amr Commandment 655
Bushra Good Tidings 272
Majid Glorious 8521
Zabur Scripture 21105
Mubin That which maketh plain 121
Bashir Good Tidings 414
Nadhir Warning 414
?Aziz Unassailable 4141
Balagh Clear Message 1452
Qassas Narratives 123
Suhuf Leaves 8013
Mukarrama Honored 8013
Marfu?a Exalted 8014
Mutahhara Purified 8014
Qawl Word

Peace Ayman,

Before I respond to previous posts chronologically, let me add a small comment to your thoughtful reply. I think what confused Eid is that he assumed that there must be gender agreement between "zikra" and what it describes. There is no such gender agreement in Arabic. Same structure here

Literal The man (masculine) he (masculine) a role model (feminine) for his (masculine) son.

This is not an advice just for Eid but for everyone, we should all be careful and avoid knee-jerk kind responses against things that are unfamiliar to us and instead try to reason and learn patiently.

The point to this pointless exercise is you avoiding to answer how to fast a full-moon.

2183 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanookutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu
O you those who believe, it is dictated on you the fasting.

2184 waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu
?and on those who endure it -- obviously refers back to the fasting.

2185 faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu
?so who witnessed from you the month, so he should fast it?

While you have it as?
?.so who witnessed from you the full moon, so he should abstain, the abstinence.

So yeah a double negative, if your vision is good, you are outdoors in clear weather lucky to see the full moon then avoid the fasting.

Likewise apply what was asked in the prior post...

583-4
And those who declare their wives as forbidden for them as their mothers
so freeing a neck from before that they touch each other
And he who finds not must do the abstinence two successive full-moons before they both touch each other
And he who is unable to do so should feed sixty poor

The abstinence two successive full-moons means wait until next 98%, 99%, 100% full moon then fast to next non-identifiable 98%, 99%, 100% full moon which is about a month +/- a few days for error.

Therefore, the abstinence of one full-moon is ZERO days!

Does he commence fasting? YES!
Can he sleep with his wife until the next full moon? NO!
Does feeding 60 poor equate to two months fasting? YES!

unknownuser

Peace Ayman,

In all likelihood, Umar and all the so-called Sahaba never met the prophet.

False! Read history, PERF 558, and inscription in 24 AH

http//dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/11/18/islamic-inscription.html

It is interesting that, as Herbman noted, the start of the new Umar calendar precisely coincides with when the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice was visible. So this pinpoints the point of initial corruption and further confirms the fact that before the corruption the summer solstice marked the start of the year.

This has ZERO to with it; summer solstice happened in the 12th month Dhu al-Hijjah in that year which was the year of the migration and the 1st month Muharram happened on July 16 that year.

It has already been shown you that if you roll back PERF 558 only 10 years after the prophet (pbuh) left using new moon data the precise date of the start of new era which aligns perfectly with historical dates.

They knew the months (well known) and could have chosen the 1st month in any year to start the era; e.g. if they picked the year of PERF 558 then our friend would have written year 1 AH instead of year 22 which shows they used a lunar calendar at the time and obliterates the hot moon...

New Moon Date (start new month 2 days later)
1/17/622 7. Rajab
16-Feb 8. Sha'aban
18-Mar 9. Ramadan
16-Apr 10. Shawwal
16-May 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
14-Jun 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
14-Jul 1. Muharram begins 7/16
12-Aug 2. Safar Sept 9 (26 Safar AH 1) Hijra
11-Sep 3. Rabi' al-awwal
10-Oct 4. Rabi' al-thani
8-Nov 5. Jumada al-awwal
8-Dec 6. Jumada al-thani
1/6/623 7. Rajab
5-Feb 8. Sha'aban
7-Mar 9. Ramadan
5-Apr 10. Shawwal
5-May 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
4-Jun 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
3-Jul 1. Muharram 2 AH
2-Aug 2. Safar
31-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
30-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
29-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
28-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
27-Dec 7. Rajab
1/25/624 8. Sha'aban
24-Feb 9. Ramadan March 17, 624 (17 Ramadan 2 AH) Badr Battle
24-Mar 10. Shawwal
23-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
23-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
21-Jun 1. Muharram 3 AH
21-Jul 2. Safar
20-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
18-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
18-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
16-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
16-Dec 7. Rajab
1/14/625 8. Sha'aban
13-Feb 9. Ramadan
14-Mar 10. Shawwal March 19, 625 (3 Shawwal 3 AH) Battle of Uhud
12-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
12-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
10-Jun 1. Muharram 4 AH
10-Jul 2. Safar
9-Aug 3. Rabi' al-awwal
7-Sep 4. Rabi' al-thani
7-Oct 5. Jumada al-awwal
6-Nov 6. Jumada al-thani
5-Dec 7. Rajab
1/4/626 8. Sha'aban
2-Feb 9. Ramadan
4-Mar 10. Shawwal
2-Apr 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1-May 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
31-May 1. Muharram 5 AH
29-Jun 2. Safar
29-Jul 3. Rabi' al-awwal
27-Aug 4. Rabi' al-thani
26-Sep 5. Jumada al-awwal
26-Oct 6. Jumada al-thani
25-Nov 7. Rajab
24-Dec 8. Sha'aban
1/23/627 9. Ramadan
21-Feb 10. Shawwal
23-Mar 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
21-Apr 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
20-May 1. Muharram 6 AH
19-Jun 2. Safar
18-Jul 3. Rabi' al-awwal
16-Aug 4. Rabi' al-thani
15-Sep 5. Jumada al-awwal
15-Oct 6. Jumada al-thani
14-Nov 7. Rajab
13-Dec 8. Sha'aban
1/12/628 9. Ramadan
11-Feb 10. Shawwal
11-Mar 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
10-Apr 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
9-May 1. Muharram 7 AH
7-Jun 2. Safar
7-Jul 3. Rabi' al-awwal
5-Aug 4. Rabi' al-thani
3-Sep 5. Jumada al-awwal
3-Oct 6. Jumada al-thani
2-Nov 7. Rajab
1-Dec 8. Sha'aban
31-Dec 9. Ramadan
1/30/629 10. Shawwal
1-Mar 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
30-Mar 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
29-Apr 1. Muharram 8 AH
28-May 2. Safar
26-Jun 3. Rabi' al-awwal
26-Jul 4. Rabi' al-thani
24-Aug 5. Jumada al-awwal
22-Sep 6. Jumada al-thani
22-Oct 7. Rajab
20-Nov 8. Sha'aban
20-Dec 9. Ramadan
1/19/630 10. Shawwal
18-Feb 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
19-Mar 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
18-Apr 1. Muharram 9 AH
17-May 2. Safar
16-Jun 3. Rabi' al-awwal
15-Jul 4. Rabi' al-thani
14-Aug 5. Jumada al-awwal
12-Sep 6. Jumada al-thani
11-Oct 7. Rajab
10-Nov 8. Sha'aban
9-Dec 9. Ramadan
1/8/631 10. Shawwal
7-Feb 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
8-Mar 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
7-Apr 1. Muharram 10 AH
7-May 2. Safar
5-Jun 3. Rabi' al-awwal
5-Jul 4. Rabi' al-thani
3-Aug 5. Jumada al-awwal
2-Sep 6. Jumada al-thani
1-Oct 7. Rajab
30-Oct 8. Sha'aban
29-Nov 9. Ramadan
28-Dec 10. Shawwal
1/27/632 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
25-Feb 12. Dhu al-Hijjah Prophet's final sermon 9th of Dhu al-Hijjah, 10 AH
26-Mar 1. Muharram 11 AH
25-Apr 2. Safar
24-May 3. Rabi' al-awwal 8 June (12 of Rabi? al-Awwal, 11 AH) prophet left (pbuh)
23-Jun 4. Rabi' al-thani
23-Jul 5. Jumada al-awwal
21-Aug 6. Jumada al-thani
20-Sep 7. Rajab
19-Oct 8. Sha'aban
17-Nov 9. Ramadan
17-Dec 10. Shawwal
1/15/633 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
14-Feb 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
15-Mar 1. Muharram 12 AH
14-Apr 2. Safar
13-May 3. Rabi' al-awwal
12-Jun 4. Rabi' al-thani
12-Jul 5. Jumada al-awwal
10-Aug 6. Jumada al-thani
9-Sep 7. Rajab
9-Oct 8. Sha'aban
7-Nov 9. Ramadan
7-Dec 10. Shawwal
1/5/634 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
4-Feb 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
5-Mar 1. Muharram 13 AH
3-Apr 2. Safar
3-May 3. Rabi' al-awwal
1-Jun 4. Rabi' al-thani
1-Jul 5. Jumada al-awwal
30-Jul 6. Jumada al-thani
29-Aug 7. Rajab
28-Sep 8. Sha'aban
27-Oct 9. Ramadan
26-Nov 10. Shawwal
26-Dec 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1/24/635 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
23-Feb 1. Muharram 14 AH
24-Mar 2. Safar
22-Apr 3. Rabi' al-awwal
22-May 4. Rabi' al-thani
20-Jun 5. Jumada al-awwal
19-Jul 6. Jumada al-thani
18-Aug 7. Rajab
17-Sep 8. Sha'aban
17-Oct 9. Ramadan
15-Nov 10. Shawwal
15-Dec 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1/14/636 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
12-Feb 1. Muharram 15 AH
13-Mar 2. Safar
11-Apr 3. Rabi' al-awwal
10-May 4. Rabi' al-thani
9-Jun 5. Jumada al-awwal
8-Jul 6. Jumada al-thani
6-Aug 7. Rajab
5-Sep 8. Sha'aban
5-Oct 9. Ramadan
3-Nov 10. Shawwal
3-Dec 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
1/2/637 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
1-Feb 1. Muharram 16 AH
2-Mar 2. Safar
1-Apr 3. Rabi' al-awwal
30-Apr 4. Rabi' al-thani
29-May 5. Jumada al-awwal
28-Jun 6. Jumada al-thani
27-Jul 7. Rajab
25-Aug 8. Sha'aban
24-Sep 9. Ramadan
23-Oct 10. Shawwal
22-Nov 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
22-Dec 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
1/21/638 1. Muharram 17 AH
19-Feb 2. Safar
21-Mar 3. Rabi' al-awwal
20-Apr 4. Rabi' al-thani
19-May 5. Jumada al-awwal
17-Jun 6. Jumada al-thani
17-Jul 7. Rajab
15-Aug 8. Sha'aban
13-Sep 9. Ramadan
13-Oct 10. Shawwal
11-Nov 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
11-Dec 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
1/10/639 1. Muharram 18 AH
8-Feb 2. Safar
10-Mar 3. Rabi' al-awwal
9-Apr 4. Rabi' al-thani
8-May 5. Jumada al-awwal
7-Jun 6. Jumada al-thani
6-Jul 7. Rajab
5-Aug 8. Sha'aban
3-Sep 9. Ramadan
2-Oct 10. Shawwal
1-Nov 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
30-Nov 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
30-Dec 1. Muharram 19 AH
1/28/640 2. Safar
27-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
28-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
27-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
26-May 6. Jumada al-thani
25-Jun 7. Rajab
24-Jul 8. Sha'aban
23-Aug 9. Ramadan
21-Sep 10. Shawwal
20-Oct 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
19-Nov 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
18-Dec 1. Muharram 20 AH
1/17/641 2. Safar
15-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
17-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
16-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
15-May 6. Jumada al-thani
14-Jun 7. Rajab
13-Jul 8. Sha'aban
12-Aug 9. Ramadan
11-Sep 10. Shawwal
10-Oct 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
8-Nov 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
8-Dec 1. Muharram 21 AH
1/6/642 2. Safar
5-Feb 3. Rabi' al-awwal
6-Mar 4. Rabi' al-thani
5-Apr 5. Jumada al-awwal
4-May 6. Jumada al-thani
3-Jun 7. Rajab
3-Jul 8. Sha'aban
1-Aug 9. Ramadan
31-Aug 10. Shawwal
29-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
29-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
28-Nov 1. Muharram 22 AH
27-Dec 2. Safar
1/25/643 3. Rabi' al-awwal
24-Feb 4. Rabi' al-thani
25-Mar 5. Jumada al-awwal PERF 558 last day of Jumada al-awwal 4/25
24-Apr 6. Jumada al-thani begins 4/26
23-May 7. Rajab
22-Jun 8. Sha'aban
21-Jul 9. Ramadan
20-Aug 10. Shawwal
19-Sep 11. Dhu al-Qi'dah
18-Oct 12. Dhu al-Hijjah
17-Nov 1. Muharram
17-Dec 2. Safar

The above data cannot be denied and no need to lie about receiving sheep at the end of the month.

Samia

Salaam Samia,

Then apply it consistently for every word that refers to Qur'an, are these all masculine?

Salaam Eid

You have a funny logic!
Words "attributed to quraan" are not the word "quraan" which you mentioned in your post and which I am talking about. Words referring to the quraan are attributes and have their own masculine and feminine description. They do not affect the gender of the word they are describing.
The example brought by Ayman best explains this.

And you cannot be critical to my post and to Ayman's at the same time if you know what you are talking bout (or maybe that was why Ayman gave an example of a "feminine" attribute to a "masculine" word . Just as saying . In both sentences, quraan (m.s) and man (m.s) are the subject and the attributes (f.s.) are attributes to the subject. Any verb conjugation, pronoun, demonstrative pronoun...etc will follow the (m.s) subject not the feminine (f.s) attribute. In other words, you will still have to treat the phrase as a masculine singular (m.s) and use the masculine singular pronoun in these two cases.

Rami

In response to the dudes who say that the Torah calendar is a lunar one.

Well, yes it partly is.

But the FIRST month is marked by the abib barley in Israel. A system a BIT similar to Ayman's theory where there is a marker to begin the count to keep things in sync.

farida

But the FIRST month is marked by the abib barley in Israel. A system a BIT similar to Ayman's theory where there is a marker to begin the count to keep things in sync.

Exactly! By adding of 13th month to keep things in sync.

Many thanks and regards

peace

farida

Hey but those "plagued people" think o' us as infidels and apostates...threatening us with death... brickwall

Salaam young man

The following examples will show that Hitler at the time of the Goebbels article (published on 16 November 1941) was voicing very similar views concerning the Jews to those expressed by Goebbels(the minister of propaganda)

At his table talk on 21 October 1941, Hitler exclaimed about the Jews 'If we exterminate this plague, we will accomplish for humankind a deed the importance of which our men out there can still have no idea. http//www.holocaustdenialontrial.org/en/trial/defense/evans/430diiiC

Yes! because the country is plagued with 180 million (minus a few) sunni sectarians,... siki on August 25, 2009, 070605 AM page 80 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg218114#msg218114

Let me tell you son I am from Pakistan too and it makes my blood boil when I see the majority there engaged in pagan rituals at all levels from dancing at the tombs of saints to Mullahs chanting like donkeys in the Mosque. Yet I would never use such a term (plague) for them all. I say to myself; God this is your creation and despite all the guidance sent to them they still chose the path of those who went astray. Allahu Aalum WHY?

Now do you want to understand what is meant by "the Roman Salute" then please don?t ask your father; he would be hurt; just google; Adolf Hitler, fascist or Nazi.

May the god have mercy on us.

peace

Rami

Exactly! By adding of 13th month to keep things in sync.

Many thanks and regards

peace

You mixed the traditional Babylonian Jewish calendar with the Torah calendar. The idea of adding an intercalary months and the metonic cycle is Babylonian. The Torah based calendar calls the first crescent after the Abib in Israel the first month. So its auto-adjusting.

Rami

Salaam young man

The following examples will show that Hitler at the time of the Goebbels article (published on 16 November 1941) was voicing very similar views concerning the Jews to those expressed by Goebbels(the minister of propaganda)

At his table talk on 21 October 1941, Hitler exclaimed about the Jews 'If we exterminate this plague, we will accomplish for humankind a deed the importance of which our men out there can still have no idea. http//www.holocaustdenialontrial.org/en/trial/defense/evans/430diiiC

Yes! because the country is plagued with 180 million (minus a few) sunni sectarians,... siki on August 25, 2009, 070605 AM page 80 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg218114#msg218114

Let me tell you son I am from Pakistan too and it makes my blood boil when I see the majority there engaged in pagan rituals at all levels from dancing at the tombs of saints to Mullahs chanting like donkeys in the Mosque. Yet I would never use such a term (plague) for them all. I say to myself; God this is your creation and despite all the guidance sent to them they still chose the path of those who went astray. Allahu Aalum WHY?

Now do you want to understand what is meant by "the Roman Salute" then please dont ask your father; he would be hurt; just google; Adolf Hitler, fascist or Nazi.

May the god have mercy on us.

peace

Have you ever wondered why Hitler started to hate the Jews though he had many Jewish friends?

What did the Jews do?

Do you know the difference between the American Jew and the German Jew?

quickduck

Peace Samia

Salaam Eid

You have a funny logic!
Words "attributed to quraan" are not the word "quraan" which you mentioned in your post and which I am talking about. Words referring to the quraan are attributes and have their own masculine and feminine description. They do not affect the gender of the word they are describing.
The example brought by Ayman best explains this.

And you cannot be critical to my post and to Ayman's at the same time if you know what you are talking bout (or maybe that was why ) Ayman gave an example of a "feminine" attribute to a "masculine" word . Just as saying . In both sentences, quraan (m.s) and man (m.s) are the subject and the attributes (f.s.) are attributes to the subject. Any verb conjugation, pronoun, demonstrative pronoun...etc will follow the (m.s) subject not the feminine (f.s) attribute. In other words, you will still have to treat the phrase as a masculine singular (m.s) and use the masculine singular pronoun in these two cases.

I am afraid we are pooring water in the sand, and whatever we say or whatever we try to explain to him , i bet he (Nun, Holiday, Pseudo, Eid, Rex...) still cannot understand. It's like that, you cannot do anything...it's a hopeless case .

@ Farida i never said that i am an arab, neither that i was proud of being arab. (i hate most of them, by the way)

the fact that you speak english very well does'nt imply that you are (proud of being ) an english woman.

But your arrogance has hit again, and you are turning yourself into ridiculous, trying to hunt any inconsistency in my posts. So please grow up...

Well, i'll say it again I am PROUD of being an ARABIC, FRENCH, SPANICH, and "not bad" ENGLISH Speaker...but arabic and french are my best ..... )

And because we are discussing a quranic understanding and quoting from the quran, and since the quran was originally revealed in arabic ( correct me if i am mistaking) ; so it make me very very very angry when someone quotes the quran with pathetic understanding due to the lack of arabic knowledge, and also the lack of the will to learn arabic.

So that's why i am proud (not of being arab but ) of being a good arabic speaker...

Salaaaaaam

Salaam

farida

Have you ever wondered why Hitler started to hate the Jews though he had many Jewish friends?

What did the Jews do?

Do you know the difference between the American Jew and the German Jew?

Yes I do, a lot of information now a days is available on the net about the conspiracy behind the hate campaign and who were actually killed and the difference you mentioned above. But I don?t want to derail this thread so let's not go off topic pls.

Regards

farida

And because we are discussing a quranic understanding and quoting from the quran, and since the quran was originally revealed in arabic ( correct me if i am mistaking) ; so it make me very very very angry when someone quotes the quran with pathetic understanding due to the lack of arabic knowledge, and also the lack of the will to learn arabic.

So that's why i am proud (not of being arab but ) of being a good arabic speaker...

Salaaaaaam

Salaam

Salaaaaaam

I am in the middle of writing exactly that so look forward to "my forth coming post" ;D

peace

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Peace Ayman,
As you can see, your points are in blue, and mine are in red.

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM

I never said such thing. I said it was descended in a scorching full-moon. This is the same as saying it descended in a blazing sun or a cloudy day, etc. Just like all the phases of the moon, the scorching moon is an entirely optical phenomenon.

Day = Period of time
Moon = Object

Who are you trying to fool? You are just trying to save your 'scorching moon' theory at any cost.

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
The great reading is about consistency. The great reading was descended in a scorching full-moon is more logical because it is consistent with the rest of the passage and other passages. For example, it is consistent with the following facts

Maybe that is why the moon was split by Muhammad... the Quran was stuck in it (according to your wording).

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM

The great reading was revealed in the night of measure (1 night not a whole month).

Are you telling me that this proves your point?

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
3. The false understanding of ?month? creates an insurmountable logical absurdity since ?shahid? (witnessed) is in the perfect past tense so this implies that you have to witness the month and then go back in time and fast. Thus even the staunchest Sunnis admit that this passage is talking about witnessing an event (they claim to be the new moon crescent) and not a month. Rex and you can try to change the words of the passage to make it say ?witness the first day of the month? or whatever but this is not what the passage is saying.

I have already explained the reason for the usage of the past tense... If you want, I'll post it again for you.

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
This is just some ignorant crap as typical from Submission.org.

Ignorant statement.

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
The fast in the Bible is prescribed as one day and not a whole month.

There are many fasts described in the Bible - either-or fallacy.

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
If you believe in the Bible then you might as well go ahead and idolize Jesus.

That's some screwed up logic you have...the above is fallacious as well, of course...
Besides, we're talking about the OT part of the Bible... Jesus didnt exist in the time when the OT was published hint hint.

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
An example of a Jewish fast is that of Taanit Bkhorot which happens on the day before the full-moon. Also, the 9th month of the Hebrew Calendar is Kislev which occurs in the November-December timeframe.

Why are you switching the topic? Did the fact that the people back then - real Submitters - not your Jewish calendar people with the Mishnah and Gemerrah - used a pure lunar calendar freak you out?

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
There is no evidence of a month called Ramadan

LMAO. Is this the way you prove your points and refute others' ones?

Jeremiah 369 "And it came to pass in the fifth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, in the ninth month, that they proclaimed a fast before the Lord to all the people in Jerusalem, and to all the people that came from the cities of Judah unto Jerusalem."

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
let alone a 10 day period called Ramadan

Why are you telling me this? Arent you the one promoting your lousy 10 days of fasting?

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM
I never said that it is a name so you are, as usual, building a strawman. I said that it is a common noun. The burden of proof is on you to show that there was a pre-Islamic month called Ramadan. I know you can?t prove it.

The only one posting logically fallacious stuff is you. I presented my proofs to you - now it's your turn. As I can see from the above quote, you have none.

So, where is your proof of people having fasted after having witnessed 'the full moon of schorching heat'?

Have a nice Ramadan peace

guest

Peace Ayman,

There is no need to waste my time or your time or the reader time on this. I would suggest that you and anyone else who has doubts to do a Google search on full-moon illusion that happens around the summer solstice and the reason why it is more reddish in color than the other full-moons.

Perhaps you forgot to take a good look at the picture of December 2008 full moon I cited. You will find it reddish in color. Enough said.

You are free not to question anything and blindly accept manmade falsehood.

No, I am asking you good and intelligent questions. But you are the one who is asking irrelevant and poor questions. You have created a fictitious problem and an imaginary solution. The house you created is worst than that of the spider house.

Unlike some others on this thread, thank you for honestly admitting that the start of the sectarian timing for Hajj according to their calendar on 8th of Dhu Al-Hijjah (not with the new moon crescent as you say) and its end on the 13th of Dhu-Alhijjah (not with the crescent moon) is 100% false and arbitrary.

I am in agreement with the 8th Dhu Al-Hijj. The point I was trying to make with the new moon crescent is the front door vs. the back door. The new moon looks like this ----) which is easily mapped to main entrance (welcome) or front of a house. As opposed to your crescent which looks like this -------- ( showing the back entrance.

It is you who is beating around the bush. Your theory of starting the ?hajj? with the new moon crescent and ending it with the waning crescent results in ?hajj? lasting for 25 days. When you think of the front door do you think of something clear and apparent or of something hidden and dim? Which is the one that is hidden and dim, the front door or the back door? The full moon or the new moon?

Here is the definition of crescent A moon that is between a half moon and a new moon.

http//www.go-astronomy.com/glossary/astronomy-glossary-c.htm

That?s why I said hajj start and end in crescent moon. I am using your translation "crescent" to defeat your theory. Per the definition you don?t get 25 days of hajj. You are totally confused.

Your mapping of full moon to front door is irrelevant because it violates the definition of crescent.

This off-topic. Please open another thread if you want to discuss hajj.

Tell this to the god who designed this system. You choose to ignore it and instead follow an arbitrary and completely useless manmade timing system that you hypocritically don?t follow for any practical purposes.

The God already told us that ?The sun is never to catch up with the moon - the night and the day never deviate - each of them is floating in its own orbit (3640). You are the one who is disobeying Him.

quickduck

Peace Ayman,
As you can see, your points are in blue, and mine are in red.

Quote from ayman on September 01, 2009, 105448 PM

I never said such thing. I said it was descended in a scorching full-moon. This is the same as saying it descended in a blazing sun or a cloudy day, etc. Just like all the phases of the moon, the scorching moon is an entirely optical phenomenon.

Day = Period of time
Moon = Object

Who are you trying to fool? You are just trying to save your 'scorching moon' theory at any cost.

1 - Moon = object , correct ! but "full-moon" = a state of the moon/object. it also describes an event/trigger.
2 - "scorching" full-moon is another state/adjective of the moon/object . So one cannot say that the quran was revealed in an "object", but one can say quran was revealed in a night (period of time as well as a day) WHEN the moon was
a - in a full state (obvious),
b - big ( because of its lower path)
c - reddish and hot because of the summer solstice.
it makes perfect sense. ( for those who can afford to understand common sense).
Now this is @ Guest
3- hence, "the hot-scorching-big-obvious-reddish-full moon" ie. "shahr Ramadan" is unique because it happens only once in a year, after the summer solstice. the reddish big full moon of December misses at least one important attribute "hot-scorching"...am i clear enough ?

i thought some people on this forum had problems with understanding arabic, but now i see that they had big problems with english as well (((((((((

salam

quickduck

@ Farida

i am waiting for your forth coming post

salam

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

1 - Moon = object , correct ! but "full-moon" = a state of the moon/object. it also describes an event/trigger.
2 - "scorching" full-moon is another state/adjective of the moon/object .
3- hence, "the hot-scorching-obvious-reddish-full moon" ie. "shahr Ramadan" is unique because it happens only once in a year, after the summer solstice. the reddish big full moon of December missess at least one important attribute "hot-scorching"...

i thought some people on this forum had problems with understandng arabic, but now i see that they had big problems with english as well ((((((((((

salam

Indeed, some people dont understand English very well.. the Quran having been descended IN a full moon... very interesting.

2185 Shahru ramadana allatheeonzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasiwabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqan

BTW, what's the problem with not understanding Arabic?
Also, why the DOUBLE POSTING?
FYI, a full moon IS an object, or do you suggest something different?