Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace belH
I am certainly not making fun of your ignorance that will be a sin.
but your getting annoying with your insistence on useless matters that will not add to your knowledge if answered, just mabe to your skills, and as I said before, I am not into spoon feeding...
I will give you a hint though from the gregorian calendar, if you were to know say how much money you earn every week, will you be able to work how much you earn pcm (that is per calendar month), and vice versa if you were to know how much money you earned every year, wouldn't you be able by the same token to work oout your earning per week and per calendar month?
This is basic accounting.
So do your own calculations , and if you are using a man made calendar, you will need a point of reference, i.e a start, you cannot evade that, and I think this is where your confusion (and Ayman's btw) comes from about debunking, and being right.
As for me, I am very satisfied, unless Allah shows me otherwise, that ramadan describes the full moon that marks the month just after the summer solstice.
We still need to work out a point (time) of reference to start the calendar, that does not depend on the moon, and I suggest the summer solstice itself...
and a space of reference (so we get a mean time so other areas of the globe compare to, like the current GMT, maybe JMT Jerusalem MT)...
or we can keep the current solar calendar and juxtapose on it a luni-solar one that takes into account that ramadan is the first full moon after the summer solstice (that could be more practical)...
or take Ayman suggestion, which I have nothing against, i.e staring the year with the actual ramadan full moon.
Any of these will require adjustments anyway, and this is accounting work... -
Peace Ayman,
The only issue is your lack of understanding. Everyone, even little kids, understand that day and night are related to the sun and have nothing to do with the moon.
First lesson it is not ?day and night? rather darkness (night) and day. Why do you insist on doing thing opposite of the God?s way? Why be so unappreciative. Did He not give you two eyes, a brain, two hands, education, shelter, food, and many more things? Please show your appreciation. Give thanks to God, the more you thank Him the more He gives.
Also most people with any kind of education know that the only way to use day and night to measure the year is if the year is taken as the interval between solstices (longest/shortest day/night).
Between solstice gets you half a year, I think you meant between two June solstices. We will overlook this minor mistake.
Nights and days are used for counting numbers of days within a moon cycle. 12 moon cycles = 1 year. It is that simple.
The reason people invested so much effort in establishing an accurate solar calendar is because an accurate solar calendar equates to making more money i.e. optimum plantation means more crop and more crop = more money. Solar calendar has nothing to do with the religion.
Despite all your useless ranting, you use terms like "sunset" (regardless of how it sets).
I am using sunset, sunrise, east, and west per Quranic point of view. Here are couples of examples.
5039 - Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise, and before sunset.
2 258 - Have you noted the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord, though GOD had given him kingship? Abraham said, "My Lord grants life and death." He said, "I grant life and death." Abraham said, "GOD brings the sun from the east, can you bring it from the west?" The disbeliever was stumped. GOD does not guide the wicked.
If you lock yourself in a dark room, it doesn't mean that it is night.
Are you suggesting that inside the dark room is a day? Or inside the grave is a day? Or at the center of the earth is a day? Or depth of an ocean is a day?
You don't seem to be able to understand even simple things like the fact that darkness and light are different concepts than night and day.
I do, I follow the Quranic definition. You follow the dictionary definition. Ayman is cooking his own goose.
79 29 ? He made its night dark, and brightened its morn.
Instead of sincerely trying to find the truth based on the great reading, your objective is to work backwards to justify your traditional timing.
You are not in a position to talk about truth because you follow your own misguided way and not God?s way. You are working backward you start with a dictionary meaning and then manipulate it to fit Quranic meaning. This is your ugly backward approach.
Here is an example
Quote from Ayman (Post by ayman on November 20, 2004, 035618 PM)
?There is no evidence that there was a "pre-quranic" month named Ramadhan. The common noun "ramadhan" means "scorching heat". The only derivative from "R-M-Dh" in the great reading is the word "ramadhan", which occurs only once. Hence, there is no way to compare directly the meaning with how it is used in other verses.
However, one can indirectly verify the meaning.?
And more evidence of such manipulation is readily available.
and cleaning up your heart from the idol/hero worship fetishes that you have for stone cubes and the so-called Sahaba.
I don?t worship idol. It is you who is trying to force yourself on to others as an idol. But you will not succeed. Truth shall overtake your falsehood.
You are committing sin by falsely accusing others of idol worship. Produce your evidence or shut-up. Otherwise you are eating the flesh of your dead brother, and enjoying it.
4912 - O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.
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Peace,
Salaam guest
Please keep to the topic and do not turn it into personal attacks. Be respectful to others.
Thanks for your cooperation.You are trying to portray yourself as a nice person but your action proves otherwise. Why were you silent when Ayman made the below comment?
Quote from ayman on September 13, 2009, 084258 PM
Peace everyone,As everyone can see from his own contradictory words, Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely).
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace guest
dhulumatt and nuur
are two opposing ghaib matters that we cannot fully see in our universe, even if Allah has given us clues (with parables and analogies, as He often does to build up from things we know to things we do not know) as what He means by them,
they have nothing to do with Layl, and Nahar which are linked to the rotation of the Earth around the Sun, but which appear for all intents and purposes to an observer on Earth as the result of the Sun revolving around the Earth.
The Quran audience were not "geniuses" like you, but normal people who use normal day to day concept, now if you can deign move down from your aura and pedestal of great mufti, imam, amir, and knower, you will be able to communicate with us mere mortals.
The Quran was revealed to average intelligence mere mortals, who need guidance to help them in their daily lives, not to make that harder...
Otherwise, different versions would have been printed, ones for the intelligent like you, and ones for the idiots like the rest of us...
Hope you feel satisfied now, you can also use Saturn instead of the Moon and see if I care... -
Peace,
You are trying to portray yourself as a nice person but your action proves otherwise. Why were you silent when Ayman made the below comment?
Quote from ayman on September 13, 2009, 084258 PM
Peace everyone,As everyone can see from his own contradictory words, Guest is either a hypocrite, mentally challenged or both (most likely).
Peace,
Ayman
I know many used some harsh words against each others within their response, but when one dedicates a post just to attack another this will be unacceptable. Those who repeat this may get up to a ban.
So you see I am a nice person, not pretending to be. -
Peace Belal,
1-How many years are in the 30 month period that is mentioned in the above verse? (please simply write the number)
You are asking an irrelevant question. Either you have not understood a single post of this thread or you are playing dumb. What I am saying has nothing to do with manmade "months" and the word "month" (like week) never appears in the great reading. What do you mean by your vague "months". Do you mean February or Tammouz or Zhul Al-Higgah or an imaginary 30 day period, etc.? On the other hand, everyone understands what is meant by "full-moon".
2-How many Months (full moon to full moon period, or Waxing Crescent to Waxing Crescent) are in the 40 years period mentioned in the above verse? (Please simply write the number)
This will depend on how long before or how long after a full-moon or a waxing crescent you were born. Please tell us what your definition of month is. If it is from waxing crescent to waxing crescent then before asking others, tell us the answer to your question according to your own definition.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Guest,
First lesson it is not ?day and night? rather darkness (night) and day. Why do you insist on doing thing opposite of the God?s way? Why be so unappreciative. Did He not give you two eyes, a brain, two hands, education, shelter, food, and many more things? Please show your appreciation. Give thanks to God, the more you thank Him the more He gives.
You are contradicting yourself. You can lock yourself forever in a dark room during the day. This doesn't mean that there is no day and that the god stopped rolling the day and night.
Between solstice gets you half a year, I think you meant between two June solstices. We will overlook this minor mistake.
You know what I meant but you are not smart enough to get beyond labels and see the true nature of things. The true nature of things is that there will be exactly one year between the longest day/shortest night and the next longest day/shortest night. Same goes for the shortest day/longest night and the next shortest day/longest night.
Nights and days are used for counting numbers of days within a moon cycle. 12 moon cycles = 1 year. It is that simple.
No they are not. The moon cycle has nothing to do with the number of days. It has to do with the sighting or calculaiton of a certain phase of the moon. Thus, you don't always get the same number of days in a moon cycle.
The reason people invested so much effort in establishing an accurate solar calendar is because an accurate solar calendar equates to making more money i.e. optimum plantation means more crop and more crop = more money. Solar calendar has nothing to do with the religion.
Are you saying that crops and animals follow something different then "islam"?
I am using sunset, sunrise, east, and west per Quranic point of view. Here are couples of examples.
5039 - Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise, and before sunset.
2 258 - Have you noted the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord, though GOD had given him kingship? Abraham said, "My Lord grants life and death." He said, "I grant life and death." Abraham said, "GOD brings the sun from the east, can you bring it from the west?" The disbeliever was stumped. GOD does not guide the wicked.Exactly. It is SUNset not LIGHTset.
Are you suggesting that inside the dark room is a day? Or inside the grave is a day? Or at the center of the earth is a day? Or depth of an ocean is a day?
Are you suggesting that the god stops merging day and night when you are inside a dark room? Whether you are in a dark room and whether you are dead or alive and whether humans existed or not, the god is merging day and night.
I do, I follow the Quranic definition. You follow the dictionary definition. Ayman is cooking his own goose.
79 29 ? He made its night dark, and brightened its morn.
You are not in a position to talk about truth because you follow your own misguided way and not God?s way. You are working backward you start with a dictionary meaning and then manipulate it to fit Quranic meaning. This is your ugly backward approach.But you are saying that night is 100% equivalent to dark. To say he "made its dark dark" is nonsense.
I don?t worship idol. It is you who is trying to force yourself on to others as an idol. But you will not succeed. Truth shall overtake your falsehood.
You are committing sin by falsely accusing others of idol worship. Produce your evidence or shut-up. Otherwise you are eating the flesh of your dead brother, and enjoying it.If you don't worship Umar then tell everyone how you base your timing on the god authority alone and not on what Umar did or did not do.
4221
If you don't worship the stone cube and the black stone then denounce revering those inert useless objects and mindlessly spinning around them, waving at them, fondling them and kissing them.
2555
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Belal,
But if it is related to God's religion (e.g., fasting for three month), it will start from the Ramadan 27 to Dhu al-Hijjah 26.
If you were on a deserted island and didn't have access to a calendar and decided to fast then how would you fast your three "months"?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace theNabster,
Peace guest
dhulumatt and nuurThe Quran audience were not "geniuses" like you, but normal people who use normal day to day concept, now if you can deign move down from your aura and pedestal of great mufti, imam, amir, and knower, you will be able to communicate with us mere mortals.
The Quran was revealed to average intelligence mere mortals, who need guidance to help them in their daily lives, not to make that harder...
Otherwise, different versions would have been printed, ones for the intelligent like you, and ones for the idiots like the rest of us...
Hope you feel satisfied now, you can also use Saturn instead of the Moon and see if I care...The Quran was revealed to the mankind. Why are you making false attributes about me and others? Please make your point on the main topic. Thank you.
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Peace all,
It seems that both Ayaman and Nabster are not up for the challange and running away from answering very simple Two Questions in a straight forward way.Her are my humbled answers to the two questions
30 month (moon cycle) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 moon cycle = 480 monthI know there are many of you out their who can identify that Ayman and his followers are trying to twist every Quranic verse to fit their ideology that has been promoted for the past 400 years or more...The ideology that represent Satin's Oath that he took upon himself to mislead Adams's sons and daughter from God's well-established guidance.
If I misunderstood Ayman and his followers, then let them prove me wrong by providing straight forward answers to my two CORRELATED Questions...otherwise, this Thread should be closed and lift for the readers to decide their own religion. Unless this happened by the help of Free-Minds Moderators, this thread will continue to be the battle ground for Satin to spread Stupidity and misguidance among Adam's Children.
May God complete His Light and Spread His Mercy upon all of those who are seeking his Truth. sun
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Peace all,
It seems that both Ayaman and Nabster are not up for the challange and running away from answering very simple Two Questions in a straight forward way.Her are my humbled answers to the two questions
30 month (moon cycle) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 moon cycle = 480 monthThus, The CORRELATION is God is descripting the first 2.5 years (30 month) of our life, and then, what a believer would say after 37.5 years (450 moon cycles) passes after the first mentioned period (30 month).
I know there are many of you out their who can identify that Ayman and his followers are trying to twist every Quranic verse to fit their ideology that has been promoted for the past 400 years or more...The ideology that represent Satin's Oath that he took upon himself to mislead Adams's sons and daughter from God's well-established guidance.
If I misunderstood Ayman and his followers, then let them prove me wrong by providing straight forward answers to my two CORRELATED Questions...otherwise, this Thread should be closed and lift for the readers to decide their own religion. Unless this happened by the help of Free-Minds Moderators, this thread will continue to be the battle ground for Satin to spread Stupidity and misguidance among Adam's Children.
May God complete His Light and Spread His Mercy upon all of those who are seeking his Truth. sun
Peace,
I forgot added the CORRELATION between my two questions...here it isThe CORRELATION is God is descripting the first 2.5 years (30 month) of our life, and then, what a believer would say after 37.5 years (450 moon cycles) passes after the first mentioned period (30 month).
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Peace belH
How about this Ayat then?3114 And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in
weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to
Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination.The times you refer to are not set in stone. It is like puberty, or growing a beard, or walking, or talking, for each human it is
slightly different, you cannot build a rule on that.You are the one being tested, and please stop calling anything that disturb your little comfort zone satanic, I think satan
is very happy with you, and all the sectarians and cultists.Now let me ask you an important question
Did the Fatimids read in the Quran to side with the Crusaders to fight against the Jews and Muslims and give Jerusalem to the
Christians?
How about all the crimes that were made in the name of Islam, was it the Quran that asked them to do them?Why are you making your life and that of people difficult by creating exaggeration in Allah's Deen.
Didn't Allah say to the Prophet that He did not send the Quran for him to be in hardship?Good you worked out a conversion, which you probably started with in the first place (i.e you knew the answer), but
can't you at least consider the possibility that you are wrong?
I will not be as arrogant as you in your shoes.
This hadith that says that we must do the opposite of everything that the People of the Book do is rubbish.
For starters, why are you using their stuff? their TV's and computers, and fridges, and planes, and water purification systems, and cars, and medical facilities, etc. who are doing the Islamic stuff you or them?
Go back and crawl to a little cave where you might belong, because according to that hadith you should not be using any of that stuff, and nor any of the sectarians, this is sheer hypocrisy...
and don't give me that cheap retort that I am abusing you, because you do sting as well every now and then.
Maybe if the "muslims" stop being such losers, we will be able to have some pride back, but not with an attitude like this... -
Peace Ayman,
You are contradicting yourself. You can lock yourself forever in a dark room during the day. This doesn't mean that there is no day and that the god stopped rolling the day and night.
There is no contradiction in my statement. Your response is irrelevant. You need time to comprehend a written statement. Therefore, take your time and do not rush with an irrelevant response. This is bad for you.
You know what I meant but you are not smart enough to get beyond labels and see the true nature of things. The true nature of things is that there will be exactly one year between the longest day/shortest night and the next longest day/shortest night. Same goes for the shortest day/longest night and the next shortest day/longest night.
I simply corrected a mistake you made. Instead of thanking me (an attribute of a good person) you are calling me not smart. You made the mistake, not me. This is unquranic. Anyway, you are welcome.
It is not easy to implement ?longest day/shortest night and the next longest day/shortest? concept without modern technology. I have challenged you on this point in one of my previous post but you failed to answer it. Primitive people could not have implemented this concept without making significant errors. This invalidates your assertion that solstice based timing system is easily implemented by primitive people.
I don?t want to spend more time beating a dead horse.
No they are not. The moon cycle has nothing to do with the number of days. It has to do with the sighting or calculaiton of a certain phase of the moon. Thus, you don't always get the same number of days in a moon cycle.
For your information 1 moon cycle = 29.5x days. The God has given us the knowledge and the basic ingredients to calculate moon cycle precisely using days. The new moon marks the beginning of a month.
It is your system that does not give same number days within moon cycles. Therefore, it is a no brainer that your system will be rejected by any sensible person.The God said we can use night (dark) and day to calculate time. Therefore, I can use it to calculate moon cycle, solar cycle (earth going around sun), planet cycle, comet cycle?. You are the one who is restricting its uses to solar cycle only. This is a violation of Quranic law. Only foolish people will go along with you. We only accepts God?s law and not yours or anyone else?s.
Are you saying that crops and animals follow something different then "islam"?
Crops and animals follow system that has been designed for them by the God. Our timing system is not the same as theirs just like our digestive system is not the same as theirs.
Exactly. It is SUNset not LIGHTset.
Exactly, it is not NIGHTset or DAYset.
Are you suggesting that the god stops merging day and night when you are inside a dark room? Whether you are in a dark room and whether you are dead or alive and whether humans existed or not, the god is merging day and night.
What is inside the darkroom when it is night (dark) outside?
What is inside the darkroom when it is day outside?
But you are saying that night is 100% equivalent to dark. To say he "made its dark dark" is nonsense.
Your understanding is nonsense. Right understanding is Night=dark.
If you don't worship Umar then tell everyone how you base your timing on the god authority alone and not on what Umar did or did not do.
I just described the timing system above and in numerous posts. This system was practiced by Prophet Muhammad and it is 100% consistence with God?s law.
Your timing system is good for animals.
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Peace guest
What are you talking about,
even the greek and the romans had sun "clocks" they used that allowed them to calculate the length of the day, using shadows, and the egyptians as early as 3500 BC, with the Sumerians well before that-
so, bro, on the contrary, it was very easy especially in that area of the world to know precisely the longest day and shortest night.
You too need to think before you speak
Salambeside you all the way
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Peace,
so, bro, on the contrary, it was very easy especially in that area of the world to know precisely the longest day and shortest night.
You too need to think before you speak
SalamThe length of days around summer solstice is the same i.e. June 19 thru June 22 the day lengths are equal. How do you determine which is the longest day. If you factor in the full moon around June solstice, an error of 30 days is a certainty. You get more accurate system if you don't use the June solstice in the primitive days.
I posted the following on August 31, 2009 @ 033747
Now, please refute the below statement and tell us how primitive people determined the summer solstice accurately.
Unlike the equinox, the solstice time is not easy to determine. The changes in Solar declination become smaller as the sun gets closer to its maximum/minimum declination. The days before and after the solstice, the declination speed is less than 30 arcseconds/day which is less than 1/60th of the angular size of the sun, or the equivalent to just 2 seconds of right ascension.
This difference is hardly detectable with indirect viewing based devices like sextant equipped with a vernier, and impossible with more traditional tools like a gnomon or an astrolabe. It is also hard to detect the changes on sunrise/sunset azimuth due to the atmospheric refraction changes. Those accuracy issues render impossible to determine the solstice day based on observations made within the 3 (or even 5) days surrounding the solstice, without the use of more complex tools.
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Peace guest
The answer shouts in your face.
After a first few observations, take the first day that came, and each year adjust...
Do nor overestimate those guys from the past. They were very good at figuring out patterns, what they lacked in technology, they made up with acumen and craftsmanship...
By the way, there is nothing in the Quran that imposes a particular calendar on us, and so if it is easier with the Equinox, I say start counting from the Spring or Autumn Equinox.
Still Ramadan will be at the scorching month. -
Peace,
By the way, there is nothing in the Quran that imposes a particular calendar on us, and so if it is easier with the Equinox, I say start counting from the Spring or Autumn Equinox.
You just defeated Ayman's theory.
I don't agree with you on the hot month.
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Peace guest,
nobody is defeating anybody.
calendars are set up by organisations approved which approve standards nowadays.
in the old days, it was set up to suit kings and rulers' fancy, or by whoever had the power at the time.
you, me and ayman are at the moment just little pawns, who are being tested.
we do not know Allah's grand design or end game.
for sure, it does not include the sectarians, otherwise, they wouldn't have gone from ignominy to ignominy
since the destruction of the Abassides.
The Fatimides were big traitors and fought against their own brethren to give away Jerusalem.
The Shia split, and formed their own fantasy and mythology (based on a set of hadith mind you, charming).
Then came the Wahabis who also betrayed the Ottomans the same way the Fatimids betrayed the Muslims of their day...
Are these the signs of a people that God will choose as His Peacemakers on Earth, I doubt it?Ayman's proposal is not a theory, but it is based on Signs that He extracted from the Quran. I personally am not very good at astronomy, I can follow just, so I will be lying to say that I can vouch for it 100%, so you are telling me it is not practical, so if it is not, and you are a man of good faith, and you know what you are talking about, and you did your due diligence about the way people of old computed time, and you came to this conclusion, then I will have to agree with you...
However, if your intention, is to debunk just because you have made up your mind already, and no matter what, you will be choosing something the majority of the current non-thinking relying on scholars majority is doing, then, you are a danger to yourself and to those who listen to you...
Ramadan is the only word referring to a month in the Quran, that also means scorching hot, but you are stubborn enough to ignore this fact, that gives me a clue about your character though...
And Allah knows best... -
Peace Belal and Guest,
I will respond to both of you to save time since it doesn't matter what specific points you guys post because it is all a bunch of nonsense anyway.
It seems that both Ayaman and Nabster are not up for the challange and running away from answering very simple Two Questions in a straight forward way.
Her are my humbled answers to the two questions
30 month (moon cycle) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 moon cycle = 480 month30 month (Gregorian months) = 2.5 years
40 years = 40 x 12 Gregorian months = 480 monthWhat you posted can be applied to any calendar. So the only thing you proved is that your are using fallacious circular reasoning.
I know there are many of you out their who can identify that Ayman and his followers are trying to twist every Quranic verse to fit their ideology that has been promoted for the past 400 years or more...The ideology that represent Satin's Oath that he took upon himself to mislead Adams's sons and daughter from God's well-established guidance.
If I misunderstood Ayman and his followers, then let them prove me wrong by providing straight forward answers to my two CORRELATED Questions...otherwise, this Thread should be closed and lift for the readers to decide their own religion. Unless this happened by the help of Free-Minds Moderators, this thread will continue to be the battle ground for Satin to spread Stupidity and misguidance among Adam's Children.
May God complete His Light and Spread His Mercy upon all of those who are seeking his Truth. sunIf Guest and you are really sincere and think that you are not stupid and are not misguided followers of satan, then instead of continuously spewing nonsense on this thread and being obsessed with me and what I think, just forget about me and explain to everyone the following
How your Ramadhan and your Hajj on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and your restricted months (Muharam, Rajab, Dhu Al-Qi3da, Dhu Al-Hijjah, or whatever) are based purely on the god's words from the great reading and not on some unknown people or some guy named Umar arbitrarily deciding the order the months and the start of year 1 month 1 or on what the majority or Mullahs say or on Hadiths or any other such crap.
If you can do it then I will admit that I was wrong and follow your timing. Surely this should be a piece of cake for two bright guys like you. Fair enough?
Peace,
Ayman