Hot/"ramadan" Answer

guest

Peace Ayman,

Quote from Ayman ?When there is a switch from a Luni-solar calendar to a lunar calendar then the lunar calendar will depend on when the switch was made. This is due to the fact that the lunar calendar shifts by a month every three years. Therefore, had the switch been made three years earlier then what is now Ramadhan would have been Shaaban and had the switch been made three years later then Ramadhan would have been what is now Shawal. Only those who can't even count to 3 don't understand this.?

I have already provided response to the above quote but I will reiterate the main points again.

Luni-solar calendar suffers from switch and a month shift every three year because it is designed by immature people like you.
Pure lunar calendar does not have the problem of Luni-Solar calendar. If you are in the lunar reference frame then you experience no shift at all. But adult people with immature brain will ignorantly try to evaluate lunar system while they are on the solar reference frame. This will earn you a BIG ZERO in physics class. And people wonder why Muslims are getting a bad rap.
Within lunar calendar days and nights are used for calculating lunar months (1-12). In addition, day and night is used to establish salat timing.
Only intelligent question that can be asked of lunar system is that it is not in synch with the seasons. The answer is so what, who cares (disbeliever will use this to divert ignorant people). The God connected religious rites to the moon cycle and day and night AND NOT THE SOLAR CALENDAR.
People who follow the solar calendar are doing the same thing as the people who do not worship God alone disregarding the fact that God commanded us to do so in the Quran.

Quote from Ayman ?Had month 1 been the actual supposed date of the Hijra then month 9 would be 3 months later and Guest would be fasting 3 months later. Guest is the only one not to know this indisputable fact.?

Again, some foolish person keeps evaluating the lunar system from the luni-solar reference frame. This is the sign of mega senselessness. Fixing an initial point does not impact the counting or calculating the lunar month. For example ( for babies), let start a lunar calendar from 10th and 8th month and see if that changes timing of our religious rites e.g. Ramadan.

Islamic months (9 month is Ramadan)

8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5

If I start count from the 10th month then my year looks like this

10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9
10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9

If I start count from the 8th month then my year looks like this

8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7
8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7

As you can see I am performing Ramadan at the same time within the lunar calendar even after shifting the initial month. Start of the year does not change the Ramadan time.

Quote from Ayman ??..Guest is a liar who has attributed the order of the months to the prophet without any authority from the god.?

Prophet Muhammad established God?s system on earth truthfully and firmly. He validated the order of the months while he was on earth for many years after he got job of Prophet. That is what we follow. You are trying very hard to destroy that system without any evidence.

Quote from Ayman ?On previous posts, he has admitted that he is not following the great reading but is following his "innermost thoughts" (another word for his "innermost desires&quot.?

My innermost thought tell me to accept Quran as the truth unlike your innermost thought which tell you to make fun of Quran and destroy it if possible

Quote from Ayman ?The question was about providing anything from the great reading to support the sectarian arbitrary timing of the restricted "months". The question was not about me. Obviously, Guest has nothing to support his falsehood that the arbitrary "Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab" are the "restricted months" and therefore as usual his satanic innermost thoughts tempt him to divert the issue with false idiotic babbling.?

Look how Ayman is running like zebras. When I told him that Hajj was not the subject of this topic, he violently reacted by saying that it had everything to do with the full moon Ramadan theory. Now, that I exposed the truth about his system which has an error of at least one year, he is acting like a cry baby and saying the question is not about me. Guest is unfair to me. The truth is Ayman's system produces a gap of more than a year between the restricted months and he is asking us to accept his satanic teaching.

Quote from Ayman ?Only people like Guest don't know that ALL days within any month are "within the phases of the moon" so it could be the xxth-xxth. So Guest has just called himself an ignorant because indeed he ignores 2189.?

I gave you a lesson on phases of moon. See the below post from me to you. Instead of thanking me for the lesson you are calling me ignorant. What an unappreciative person you are.

Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer
? Reply #928 on July 27, 2009, 015557 PM
2189 - They ask you about the phases of the moon! Say, ?They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj, it is ....

The moon?s phases are parts of 29.530 days. It provides finer counts within a month. It is the natural cycle of the moon that are to be used for counting time and not Ayman's deviated (man made) solar or lunar calendar.

Quote from Ayman ?Guest listens to 2189 saying that the crescents provide timing for the "hajj" but then his evil innermost thoughts change what he heard into "the new moon is the marker and the "hajj" is performed within any of the phases of the moon" (on the 8th there is no crescent but there is about half full and on the 13th there is no crescent either but the moons is about 95% full).?

Now that you agree 8th thru 13th is within the phases of the moon, you are in fact validating that the Hajj can be performed any time during the month of Dhu al-Hijjah. By the way your definition of crescent is 100% nonsense. Crescent does not happen on dying moon.

Quote from Ayman ?No one can use the day and night alone to calculate the lunar month. One cannot look at the day and night alone to know that the moon is 8 or any xx days old. This is an indisputable fact that only the dumbest don't know. Also, Guest's innermost thoughts are deluding him into changing 1712 to say that it talks about calculating the moon's age in the lunar month when it clearly talks about calculating the number of years. Guest is also further demonstrating that he is a pathological liar. I never have "forbidden" the calculation for knowing the number of years or anything.?

Only you (Ayman) cannot use day and night to calculate moon?s age. All sensible people are able to do the calculation. Yes, 1712 tells us to count and calculate number of lunar years.

As for your statement ?I never have "forbidden" the calculation for knowing the number of years or anything.??

Yes you did. Just that you don?t know what you are talking about. Here is a quote from your initial post ?2185 doesn't say "whoever was told by someone, who was told by a Mullah about "al-shahr"", it says "whoever witnessed "al-shahr"".? You are forcing to witness the al-shahr which means you are negating the calculation otherwise it will be a contradiction.

Quote from Ayman ?There is an inherent relation in the sectarian false calendar between month 1 and the present sectarian Ramadhan. Had month 1 been one month earlier then Ramadhan year 1 would have been 1 month earlier and so would be all the Ramadhans up to today. By merely recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names, sectarians are not counting 12 but they have not stopped counting since month 1 and this is why present day so-called Ramadhan is 100% tied to month 1. Guest is either a liar or too dumb to understand this simple indisputable fact (most likely both).

This is your nonsense talk. Read the response under the second quote above. Opps, I forgot that you have serious comprehension problem. Ask a five year to read and explain it to you. He will even give you a balloon after the lesson.

siki

confused My dilema in your case is that , "On one side you have the intellect to question the authenticity of the footage recorded on a disk, but then you blindly follow the scholar's passed on practices in the name of Islam , in gross violation of Quran ???

'( I just cant understand above. hypno Will you help me out here , as to how you accomplish this?

wow So you are zipping through this life with the help of innermost thoughts tempt only, and Quran has nothing to do with guidance in your case hmm

siki

guest,

hail Me too, waiting for a response from your side. eat

siki

noble

Peace all
Is Allah more worthy of worship than the moon?
Why this fixation with the moon, guest?
If it were not for the reference of the pre-islamic (pagan and polytheistic of course) Moon-God, I would have some sympathy for you,
but there is too many blasphemous references attached to a pure lunar calendar.
Who is bigger the Sun or the Moon, who is more useful the Sun or the Moon, can you see the Moon without the Sun? but you can see the Sun without the Moon...
One revolution of the Sun gives you twelve Moons, this is basic indexing, mathematics, we learnt from it. A year is one revolution of the Sun. A Month is one revolution of the Moon. Neat, geometrically and mathematically symmetrical.
Within each Month you have phases of the Moon for the counting of smaller portions of the Month.
Within each Month too you have capability like shadows for counting smaller portions of the Days that each Month is divided too
using Sun Set and Sun Rise.
Both Sun and Moon are used, bun Sun is the super index, and Moon is the sub index.
And as the Quran said, you cannot mix the too, each index is independent of each other, the Sun revolves around the center of the Galaxy, and the Moon revolves around the center of the Earth, but you can build a Calendar for a relative observer on Earth, by first taking the bigger Object the Sun as the principal index, and then the Moon for the months as the second index, then the weeks as the fourth index and so on...
If you want to be dogmatic and pig headed stick to your pagan Moon God inspired lunar calendar...

Sorry I said will abandon this thread, but I saw these untruth being written, like since when did Allah said that there was to be a distinction between real life and Deen?, and all other nonsense, I could not resist posting...

guest

Peace,

confused My dilema in your case is that , "On one side you have the intellect to question the authenticity of the footage recorded on a disk, but then you blindly follow the scholar's passed on practices in the name of Islam , in gross violation of Quran ???

I am not blindly following the scholar's passed on practices, you are blindly following the religious practice instituted by Ayman in violation of Quranic law. I follow the Quran and the Quranic laws as implemented by Prophet Muhammad. Which practice of mine is gross violation of Quran? The God has given me the understanding to distinguish between truth and falsehood. Thank you Lord the Great.

wow So you are zipping through this life with the help of innermost thoughts tempt only, and Quran has nothing to do with guidance in your case hmm

siki

Yes, the innermost thought is the key. Just like my innermost thought tells me to reject Ayman?s nonsense theory and your innermost thought tells you to accept Ayman?s nonsense theory. It?s that simple.

Unlike many peoples innermost thought, my innermost thought tells me to accept Quran as the guidance. That doesn?t mean I have to accept nonsense interpretation of the Quran. If you accept the fact that Quran is easy to understand then you will find many theories published on this forum to be false.

ayman

Peace Guest,

This representative extract from your post demonstrates exactly what Siki, myself and others have been trying to tell you

If I start count from the 10th month then my year looks like this

10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9
10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9

If I start count from the 8th month then my year looks like this

8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7
8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7

As you can see I am performing Ramadan at the same time within the lunar calendar even after shifting the initial month. Start of the year does not change the Ramadan time.

?Start? the count means starting at 1 so in your two examples month 10 becomes month 1 and month 8 becomes month 1, respectively. So your example should look like this

Islamic 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9
Guest 1----2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12

So anyone with a little bit of intelligence can see that your month 9 (your Ramadhan) becomes month 6 (Jumada Al-thani) in the so-called Islamic Calendar. Their month 9 (the present sectarian Ramadhan) would be your month 12 (your Dhu Al-Hijja).

For your second example, it would look like this

Islamic 8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7
Guest 1---2----3----4----5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12

So now your month 9 (your Ramadhan) becomes month 4 (Rabii Al-thani) in the so-called Islamic Calendar. Their month 9 (the present sectarian Ramadhan) would be your month 2 (your Safar).

This is all clear and easy for anyone to understand. There can be two explanations for why you can?t understand such basic facts and instead demonstrate such severe mental blockage

You are in reality a 13 year old kid hiding behind a cyber ID.
You are a mature adult who is a hopeless blind follower of traditions and Mullahs and who suffers from delusions in form of a little cukoo in your head that you call ?innermost thoughts? and who is mildly retarded (probably also a little bit anti-social based on the above and your self-centered writing style).

If you are #2 then you fit the profile of someone who can be easily manipulated by Mullahs and the cukoo in your head to do some pretty bad things in return for getting 70 virgins so I sincerely hope that you are a 13 year old kid. In this case, my fatherly advice to you is to study and learn and not waste your time in participating in a forum like this one without first gaining some knowledge. When you come back in a few years you will appreciate what I am saying and you will thank me for this advice but for now there is no point in discussing with you.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

ayman

Peace everyone,

I think that the example that Guest brought illustrates a fairly simple and obvious issue with all manmade calendars

?Start? the count means starting at 1 so in your two examples month 10 becomes month 1 and month 8 becomes month 1, respectively. So your example should look like this
Islamic 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9
Guest 1----2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12
So anyone with a little bit of intelligence can see that your month 9 (your Ramadhan) becomes month 6 (Jumada Al-thani) in the so-called Islamic Calendar. Their month 9 (the present sectarian Ramadhan) would be your month 12 (your Dhu Al-Hijja).
For your second example, it would look like this
Islamic 8---9---10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7
Guest 1---2----3----4----5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12
So now your month 9 (your Ramadhan) becomes month 4 (Rabii Al-thani) in the so-called Islamic Calendar. Their month 9 (the present sectarian Ramadhan) would be your month 2 (your Safar).

The above would apply not only to the sectarian manmade calendar but also to any manmade calendar. For example, in the Gregorian calendar when February occurs also depends on manmade arbitrary decision about which month 1 the calendar started from. So had the Gregorian calendar been made to start a month later then January would be the present day February and February would be March and so on

Gregorian 2---3----4----5----6---7---8---9---10--11--12--1
Alternate 1---2----3----4----5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12

The same also applies to the arbitrary order of the months. The arbitrary manmade order of the months determines when February occurs in the same exact way that the arbitrary manmade order of the months in the sectarian calendar determines when so-called Ramadan occurs. There is ZERO logic to the order of the months in the sectarian calendar in the same way that there is ZERO logic to the order of the months in the Gregorian calendar. This is why the god doesn?t use manmade calendars for timing but uses clear cosmic phenomena that are independent of arbitrary manmade decisions. This is the simple issue that some here such as Guest, Eid, Belal and perhaps others following this thread have been struggling to grasp. Once everyone grasps this simple reality then the rest is easy.

Peace,

Ayman

belH

Ask Eid, belal and others mindlessly defending the sectarian arbitrary calendar to help you. I bet they can't answer either. You guys are so clueless that you can't even answer the simple quesiton about why your so-called Hajj happens on the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah and have to make up lame excuses like "this thread is about timing of fast".

Peace all,
Ayman, are you experiencing what 19ers experiencing? Rashad Kalifa (Egyptian Man) build his theory on the assumption that Usman added two verses in chapter 9.
Now you (Egyptian Man) are building your theory on the assumption that Omer invented the Lunar Calender...will, both assumptions are not only non-Quranic, but 100% hadith in type. yes Are you a hadith follower?
Will, Both theories equal ZERO because the two were based on a fabricated assumptions.

The answer to your Hajj Question, as per Quran, Hajj can be performed any time during the four restricted months...Are you happy now...does that would help in pulling you out of your misery.

ayman

Peace Belh,

Ayman, are you experiencing what 19ers experiencing? Rashad Kalifa (Egyptian Man) build his theory on the assumption that Usman added two verses in chapter 9.
Now you (Egyptian Man) are building your theory on the assumption that Omer invented the Lunar Calender...will, both assumptions are not only non-Quranic, but 100% hadith in type. yes Are you a hadith follower?
Will, Both theories equal ZERO because the two were based on a fabricated assumptions.

It doesn't matter who invented your useless nonsensical calendar. It is a 100% manmade fabrication like the sectarian 8th-13th of Dhu Alhijja crap unless you can quote passages from the great reading that say the following things, which your false manmade timing is based on

O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.
O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.
O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.
O believers take the restricted "months" as Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab or WHATEVER (<= insert names of months here).
O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah or "any time during the four restricted months".
O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.
O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.
O believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.

Since of course you have ZERO answers, you just keep diverting the issue with ever more bankrupt arguments. First Farida brought up the secret agent argument and then you brought up the loser argument and now the Egyptian argument. So according to you guys, the reason the Islamic Calendar is correct is that I am a "Loser Egyptian Secret Agent". Obviously, you guys are a few chickpeas short of a Hummus.

The answer to your Hajj Question, as per Quran, Hajj can be performed any time during the four restricted months...Are you happy now...does that would help in pulling you out of your misery.

This "any time" violates 2189 which clearly says that the crescents time the "hajj". Also, this doesn't change the fact that your "restricted months" are 100% arbitrary and manmade and thus depend on when some guy decided to start month 1 year 1 and decided the arbitrary order of the months. Please don't dream like guest and claim that this guy was the prophet unless you can quote passages from the great reading saying the 8 points above.

Peace,

Ayman

guest

Peace Ayman,

Let?s demonstrate your ignorance

Quote from Ayman ? .............

Islamic 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9
Guest 1----2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12

So anyone with a little bit of intelligence can see that your month 9 (your Ramadhan) becomes month 6 (Jumada Al-thani) in the so-called Islamic Calendar. Their month 9 (the present sectarian Ramadhan) would be your month 12 (your Dhu Al-Hijja).?

Even a bird brain would know that your mapping (equating) of Islamic calendar to the newly designed offset calendar is wrong.

You should map (equate) existing calendar to the offset calendar (new) and not the other way around (like you did) because I am trying to demonstrate that changing of the initial mark (month 1) does not change the fasting month with respect to the calendar established by Prophet Muhammad. Your way of mapping defy commonsense and relational concept.

Therefore, month 9 = month 12 and NOT month 9 becomes month 6 i.e. you fast on month 12 in the offset calendar. And this preserves the original fasting period (Ramadan) and disproves your claim of dependency on month 1 of Islamic calendar. Remember you falsely accused Umar of changing Islamic calendar by moving the calendar 3 months beyond Hijra which according to you changed the fasting period. You, siki and others are boldly defending this false nonsense.

You have accused Umar of changing calendar established by Prophet Muhammad. I don't accept that. Even if he did, he would maintain the above mapping to preserve Ramadan and Hajj. You don't even have the knowledge to understand this simple fact. To an ignorant person like you this mapping will look like arbitrary ordering of months and the dependency of Ramadan on start date of a calendar. This is FALSE.

This is what the God had to say about people like Umar

3110 - You are the best community ever raised among the people you advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and you believe in GOD. If the followers of the scripture believed, it would be better for them. Some of them do believe, but the majority of them are wicked.

And you are calling them morons and liars. You just proved yourself that you are an enemy of God. This community has shown so much progress in such a short time that out ranks any other civilization in the history of mankind. Their achievement is exemplarily. This community united all the tribes and work together to establish God?s system. Initially the Romans did not take them as a threat because they were so unorganized and uneducated. But because of their faith in God they became victor over the Romans and others within 50 years.

At some point this system started to fall apart. Do you know why? Because of people like you who started to twist God?s word to fit their desire. That?s why God warned us about people like you.

632 - Under the guise of their apparent faith, they repel the people from the path of GOD. Miserable indeed is what they do.

You can design another offset calendar from my offset calendar without compromising the original fasting period. Did you get it or do I have to show you the baby steps again?

Remember I told you to go to a five year old to understand what I am saying, had you done that you wouldn't have made fool of yourself again. I give you sincere advice, you should listen to it.

Quote from Ayman

?This is all clear and easy for anyone to understand. There can be two explanations for why you can?t understand such basic facts and instead demonstrate such severe mental blockage

You are in reality a 13 year old kid hiding behind a cyber ID.
You are a mature adult who is a hopeless blind follower of traditions and Mullahs and who suffers from delusions in form of a little cukoo in your head that you call ?innermost thoughts? and who is mildly retarded (probably also a little bit anti-social based on the above and your self-centered writing style).

If you are #2 then you fit the profile of someone who can be easily manipulated by Mullahs and the cukoo in your head to do some pretty bad things in return for getting 70 virgins so I sincerely hope that you are a 13 year old kid. In this case, my fatherly advice to you is to study and learn and not waste your time in participating in a forum like this one without first gaining some knowledge. When you come back in a few years you will appreciate what I am saying and you will thank me for this advice but for now there is no point in discussing with you.?

For sure, Ayman is not a 13 years old kid, just that his behavior is less than that of a 5 year old kid. He has demonstrated this via all his posts and in particular by equating month 9 to month 6. His goal is to mislead others. He is a disgrace to the society.
Your violent reaction to my post makes you a little cukoo bird yourself (so little IQ). You act like a bully and consistently cite hadith in you posts. Yet, you accuse others of following hadith. I think you and Bukhari are related or you accepted him as your friend. That's why you are bringing him up so frequently in you posts. This is an indication that you are obsessed with him. On one hand you say hadith is satanic and on the other hand you accept hadith of Umar changing calendar. And you call yourself a sane person. This is excessive hypocrisy.

Quote from Ayman ?This representative extract from your post demonstrates exactly what Siki, myself and others have been trying to tell you?

You are a misguided and a deviated person. You are a liar and a big one at that. If you and your foolish followers are trying to tell us what I showed then why you didn?t do the work and produced it as evidence in your article or posts. You had plenty of time between 2004 and now. The answer is you don't have the brain to think properly nor write sensibly. As usual, you are trying to turn truth into falsehood. You may convince siki and others to follow your falsehood but not me or any other believers.

belH

O believers, take the date of the Hijra to start the calendar.
O believers, sorry but forget about point #1 above and don't take the actual supposed date of the Hijra to start the calendar but instead start the calendar from 3 months prior to the Hijra.
O believers, the order of the months is Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-awwal, Rabi' al-thani, Jumada al-awwal, Jumada al-thani, Rajab, Sha'aban, Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah.
O believers take the restricted "months" as Dhu al-Qi'dah, Dhu al-Hijjah, Muharram, and Rajab or WHATEVER (<= insert names of months here).
O believers ignore 2189 and perform your Hajj from the 8th to the 13th of Dhu Al-Hijjah or "any time during the four restricted months".
O believers ignore 1712 and don?t use day and night to determine the number of years and instead use the moon alone, which is not mentioned at all in 1712.
O believers ignore the meaning of the word ?ramadhan? and take it as meaningless nonsense.
O believers ignore 936 and instead count ?months? forever and don?t stop at 12, thereby making every month in your calendar dependent on when month 1 started. However, trick people into thinking that you are counting 12 by recycling the anyway meaningless names of the months every 12 names.

Peace all,

Ayman, why should you be ashamed from being an Egyptian? confused

Any way, let me explain to you how God can empower us to name our calender months and how calculate.

The Prophet and his followers understood the following Quranic rules about their Calender

It shall be 12 Months per year

We shall use the Sun and the Moon to calculate the length of the year

READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY

Because we cannot use the sun to calculate the month because there is no obvious Markers to mark the Month Boundary (Beginning and End), nor we can not use the sun to calculate the day boundary (Beginning and End) because the Moon is not available every day. Thus, no brainier, we use the Moon to calculate the month because of its obvious cycle allows us to do so (beginning of the Month and End), and the sun to calculate the day because of its obvious cycle allow us to do so.

We shall use the Moon to calculate the Month and the sun to calculate the day.

Now Relax for a minute and then

READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY

Because the Month in which the Quran was revealed is known to the prophet, then all the prophet had to do is to count 11 months after this month in order to reach the month in which the Quran was revealed Anniversary .
Therefore, that is how he counted, "Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........

DO YOU GET IT

Now, is the prophet or even any of his believers empowered to use names (except of the name Ramadan) instead of numbers to keep track of the 12 moon cycles? Sure, they are because God did not give names to them. THUS, THE ARABIC CALENDER WAS CREATED USING ITS CURRENT NAMES.

Now Relax EGYPTIAN MAN, and think it over before replying.

Peace

noble

Peace guest
your little sequence of number demo does not make sense (and I teach maths btw)...
you are very immature and unable to respond in proportion to a flame...
again everything you have been using to defend a lunar calendar does not convince me...
I cannot see a lunar calendar without a solar influence into it, the info will be contained at the point of start or reference,
plus at the 10 days regression each year. This is unavoidable, it has to do with 3D orbital geometry, there is no absolute co-ordinate,
the measure of time we are talking about for a year comes for one rotation of the earth around the sun, and as an observer on earth, relatively this looks like one revolution of the sun around the earth. So one year = distance the earth makes to move around the sun.
one day = time it takes for the earth to revolve around its axis.
if we wanted absolute co-ordinates, we will use the sun as centre of co-ordinates.
but since we are also using the Moon, it is easier to use the Earth as centre of co-ordinates, but you cannot remove the Sun from the equation.
The Sun allows us to count 365.25 days for one year.
We notice there are twelve full moons in one year.
Allah says that the number of months is 12.
Well carry on...
Umar took the advice of the scholars, some from bani israeel who converted to Islam, will we repeat his mistake? Or is Umar infallible? because he was a sahabi? are all sahab infallible?
if so, great, I am a descendant of Mohammed, I must be infallible, would you believe me?

Salam

Noble (pseudo)

ayman

Peace Belal,

Ayman, why should you be ashamed from being an Egyptian? confused
Any way, let me explain to you how God can empower us to name our calender months and how calculate.
The Prophet and his followers understood the following Quranic rules about their Calender
It shall be 12 Months per year
We shall use the Sun and the Moon to calculate the length of the year
READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY
Because we cannot use the sun to calculate the month because there is no obvious Markers to mark the Month Boundary (Beginning and End), nor we can not use the sun to calculate the day boundary (Beginning and End) because the Moon is not available every day. Thus, no brainier, we use the Moon to calculate the month because of its obvious cycle allows us to do so (beginning of the Month and End), and the sun to calculate the day because of its obvious cycle allow us to do so.
We shall use the Moon to calculate the Month and the sun to calculate the day.
Now Relax for a minute and then
READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY
Because the Month in which the Quran was revealed is known to the prophet, then all the prophet had to do is to count 11 months after this month in order to reach the month in which the Quran was revealed Anniversary .
Therefore, that is how he counted, "Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........
DO YOU GET IT
Now, is the prophet or even any of his believers empowered to use names (except of the name Ramadan) instead of numbers to keep track of the 12 moon cycles? Sure, they are because God did not give names to them. THUS, THE ARABIC CALENDER WAS CREATED USING ITS CURRENT NAMES.
Now Relax EGYPTIAN MAN, and think it over before replying.

I am relaxed. I am not the one holding a grudge against a specific nationality.

"Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........

So you admit that if this is the case then "ramadhan" would be the FIRST "month" (or first "full-moon&quot and not the 9th month. Thank you for admitting what I have been saying all along and confirming that the Islamic Calendar is messed up and the placing of your so-called Ramadhan as the 9th month is 100% arbitrary.

Hopefully, I am not increasing your level of frustration and hate for Egyptian men.

Peace,

Ayman

afridi220

Peace Belal,

I am relaxed. I am not the one holding a grudge against a specific nationality. )

"Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........

So you admit that if this is the case then "ramadhan" would be the FIRST "month" (or first "full-moon&quot and not the 9th month. Thank you for admitting what I have been saying all along and confirming that the Islamic Calendar is messed up and the placing of your so-called Ramadhan as the 9th month is 100% arbitrary.

Hopefully, I am not increasing your level of frustration and hate for Egyptian men. )

Peace,

Ayman

And say ?The Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.? We send down (stage by stage) in the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss. (Surah Al Isra? 1781-82)

ME whatever D

guest

Peace Ayman,

Peace everyone,

I think that the example that Guest brought illustrates a fairly simple and obvious issue with all manmade calendars

The above would apply not only to the sectarian manmade calendar but also to any manmade calendar. For example, in the Gregorian calendar when February occurs also depends on manmade arbitrary decision about which month 1 the calendar started from. So had the Gregorian calendar been made to start a month later then January would be the present day February and February would be March and so on

Gregorian 2---3----4----5----6---7---8---9---10--11--12--1
Alternate 1---2----3----4----5---6---7---8---9---10--11--12

The same also applies to the arbitrary order of the months. The arbitrary manmade order of the months determines when February occurs in the same exact way that the arbitrary manmade order of the months in the sectarian calendar determines when so-called Ramadan occurs. There is ZERO logic to the order of the months in the sectarian calendar in the same way that there is ZERO logic to the order of the months in the Gregorian calendar. This is why the god doesn?t use manmade calendars for timing but uses clear cosmic phenomena that are independent of arbitrary manmade decisions. This is the simple issue that some here such as Guest, Eid, Belal and perhaps others following this thread have been struggling to grasp. Once everyone grasps this simple reality then the rest is easy.

Peace,

Ayman

As usual, Ayman doesn?t know what he is talking about. He turns a simple matter into a complex and complicated thing. This is his nature. I will illustrate Ayman?s ill thinking using a simple concept that uses Prophet Muhammad as the reference point. Other prophets can be used just as well.

Arbitrary Months 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Pre Quranic)

Prophet Muhammad 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Receive revelation)

Prophet Muhammad 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Defines Calendar)

Prophet Muhammad has the authority to define the arbitrary pre-Quranic months into Islamic months/calendar. Thus, Prophet Muhammad establishes the Islamic calendar with 9 as the month of Ramadan because that?s when he received the revelation from the God. Henceforth, by definition the calendar cannot be called arbitrary anymore. Thus, the Islamic calendar has been canonized by Prophet Muhammad.

Now, guest wants to establish an Islamic calendar with new initial point (mark or month 1)

Islamic Calendar 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6----7----8----9
Guest Calendar 1---2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12

As a God fearing person, I would have to maintain synch with Prophet Muhammad defined month of Ramadan. Therefore, in Guest calendar, Ramadan is performed in the month 12. This way I have a different calendar, yet fasting in the same physical timeframe, even though Guest month is 12 and Islamic month is 9. Similarly, I can move the initial point to any point in time without compromising the calendar defined by Prophet Muhammad.

This is so simple, yet, Ayman doesn?t get it.

223 - Among the people, there are those who argue about GOD without knowledge, and follow every rebellious devil.

224 - It is decreed that anyone who allies himself with him, he will mislead him and guide him to the agony of Hell.

ayman

And say ?The Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.? We send down (stage by stage) in the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss. (Surah Al Isra? 1781-82)

Indeed.

belH

Now, guest wants to establish an Islamic calendar with new initial point (mark or month 1)

Islamic Calendar 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6----7----8----9
Guest Calendar 1---2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12

Peace all,

Good and simple illustration, may God reward you for your efforts.

"Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (One year from Ramadan ends), Ramadan, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7..........

So you admit that if this is the case then "ramadhan" would be the FIRST "month" (or first "full-moon&quot and not the 9th month. Thank you for admitting what I have been saying all along and confirming that the Islamic Calendar is messed up and the placing of your so-called Ramadhan as the 9th month is 100% arbitrary.

I hope Guest illustration is enough to fix your logic...otherwise, you are experiencing "LACK OF INTELLIGENT" .

Now, I take it that you agree with my other points

The Prophet and his followers understood the following Quranic rules about their Calender
It shall be 12 Months per year
We shall use the Sun and the Moon to calculate the length of the year

Because we cannot use the sun to calculate the month because there is no obvious Markers to mark the Month Boundary (Beginning and End), nor we can not use the sun to calculate the day boundary (Beginning and End) because the Moon is not available every day. Thus, no brainier, we use the Moon to calculate the month because of its obvious cycle allows us to do so (beginning of the Month and End), and the sun to calculate the day because of its obvious cycle allow us to do so.

We shall use the Moon to calculate the Month and the sun to calculate the day.

Ayman, Stop acting like the 19ers...Follow the Quran well-established guides, and stop twisting the Non-well-established meanings to cancel out the Well-Established Ones
It is well-established that the Year Has 12 Months
It is well-established to use the Moon and the sun to calculate our timings, Year, Day, and Month.

Otherwise, 3-7 speaks about you.

noble

Peace
To the Moon calendar fanatics, consider and ponder on this ayaht

4057 The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of
mankind know not.

Ahl al Sunnah, why are you insulting Mohammed?

belH

4057 The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of
mankind know not.

2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers; and they said We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny.
2286 God does not burden a soul except with what it can bear. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the disbelieving people.

siki

Now Relax EGYPTIAN MAN, and think it over before replying.
Peace

Belh

This is probably, the silliest and most idiotic sentence that I ever read in this forum.

siki

quickduck

Salam Bilal,

Peace all,

Ayman, why should you be ashamed from being an Egyptian? confused

...........................

) Now Relax EGYPTIAN MAN, and think it over before replying.

Peace

Since When Nationality or race has to do with one's belief ?

I'm happy you didn't ask for our skin color too bravo

What do you think about the moroccans, the pakistanis, the australians? I want to know....

I think every reader now would give you no more credibility, if he already gave you any btw...

brain sickness have no nationality, you should know it...think it over before replying ;D

Salam